Sweden avoiding lockdown

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not the only thing going on though. Denmark was one of the first European countries to introduce lockdown and their death rate is significantly worse than Norway or Finland. Population density possibly a significant factor here...

Indeed, Denmark has been successful in avoiding a spike in coronavirus cases.

But now the government wants to lift some of the more extreme measures, in a bid to resuscitate the country's comatose economy.
It will start next week by allowing primary schools and creches to reopen.

Once the schools return, the Danish government will then consider allowing smaller businesses and shops to reopen on a gradual basis.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0412/1130075-lockdown-exit-austria-and-denmark-take-first-steps/
So while Europe has locked down and now are trying to open up Sweden didn't even lock down in the first place
Insanity or genius, we'll see soon.

duffer247 wrote: »

Pretty sure Denmark didn't bother with any community testing

Sounds like a guess. Can you not just google it?

Norway has closed its border to Sweden since Patrick's Day.
Returning Norwegians have to quarantine for 2 weeks.

Norway gov https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-to-lift-covid-19-restrictions-gradually-and-cautiously/id2697060/

Forbes has some here https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/07/norway-pm-relaxes-coronavirus-restrictions-but-event-ban-continues/

Swedish figures released today :-

332 new cases
12 new deaths

Again , given experts predictions, why are these figures not so much higher ?
They are asking its citizens to behave in an adult manner, and social distance , maybe they actually are, without need for police enforcement and complete economic shutdown.

Glenomra wrote: »

no doubt their government were so brave and made the right calls rather than reacting to hysteria.

No doubt their government has stopped testing. I've been only looking at their testing numbers for 3 days now. But they have not moved up from 54,700 in the last 3 days...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

thebaz wrote: »

Swedish figures released today :-

332 new cases
12 new deaths

Again , given experts predictions, why are these figures not so much higher ?
They are asking its citizens to behave in an adult manner, and social distance , maybe they actually are, without need for police enforcement and complete economic shutdown.

Because they are not testing. Stuck at 54,700 tests for three days now.

The new deaths number looks like a weekend counting issue too.

thebaz wrote: »

Swedish figures released today :-

332 new cases
12 new deaths

Again , given experts predictions, why are these figures not so much higher ?
They are asking its citizens to behave in an adult manner, and social distance , maybe they actually are, without need for police enforcement and complete economic shutdown.

Their deaths recorded drop every Sunday. Have a look over the pas month.

thebaz wrote: »

Fair eneogh, did not realise they had stopped testing , just looked at cases and deaths which struck me as much lower than i or many would have expected .
Seams crazy not to test every day.
But not testing should not effect the death rate, which to me seams surprisingly low given circumstances.

Their deaths figure are not low. Death today dropped as they don't collect figures at the weekend but they have 89 deaths per million.

Noris Bohnson wrote: »

Once all the elderly Swedes are dead they can be replaced with imported Africans. It's a very progressive policy from the Swedish government.

Bye...……...

Clark Dry Kidney wrote: »

Actually this is the exact approach being taken here, you do realise if you catch coronavirus as a resident in a nursing home that you're not going to be taken to hospital?

Most of our deaths have been in nursing homes and not in ICU because nursing home residents are not being admitted to hospital. They are receiving care on site in the nursing home.

Terribly sad state of affairs but that's what's been happening for the last few weeks.

I really don't think that that is true at all. My understanding of it is that they used to take the nursing home patients to hospital to try to avoid the spread of it in the nursing home, but that now unless they need to go to hospital then they are staying in the nursing home isolated from other patients who do not have covid-19. I've seen nothing to say that those who need hospital treatment in nursing homes are not being taken to hospital.

Also this article from Friday says "Of the 288 people who have died so far in the outbreak, 156 had been living in nursing homes prior to their deaths (54%), Dr Tony Holohan said.

Most of those deaths occurred in hospital settings."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nursing-home-residents-make-up-more-than-half-of-irelands-covid-19-toll-993501.html

sydthebeat wrote: »

Sweden has approx 20% more confirmed cases as Ireland, yet has almost 200% more deaths.

If ANYONE thinks that the actions they took were the proper ones then you need to take a long look at yourself and how you value life.

It's a very black and white way of looking at it though. Lives will be lost the other way too. Suicides, murder suicides etc. There are victims of abuse locked in with their abusers. Cancer patients who have had treatment cancelled. People are not seeking hospital treatment for other things even though they should and are at increased risk of death from that. There are so so many different people and situations being affected by this and i'm sure we'll be horrified by a lot of the stories of lockdown when this is all over.

Also if this goes on for months and months there will be elderly dying from other age related illnesses who spent their last bit of time without even a hug from their family members, completely isolated and lonely, Some of them would have rathered just take their chances instead of being cocooned. Some people wouldn't want to be just kept alive for the sake of it!!

It's just not nearly as black and white as you are making out.

People are allowed to discuss the approach that Ireland are taken without being shut down by being told to take a long hard look at themselves. It's a lazy argument designed to shut down any debate about it!

Greentopia wrote: »

The vast majority are. Their PM told them they needed to take these measures and they did so because there is a high degree of trust in Sweden in the government and even more so for the health experts who are actually the ones who are driving these policies, not the Govt. They simply apply the measures the experts call for.

Here's what Anders Tegnell the state epidemiologist has said about why his country has chosen the path they have:
“Locking people up at home won’t work in the longer term. Sooner or later people are going to go out anyway.” He’s also repeatedly said it would be good for the Swedish population to gain immunity to the disease, even if he doesn't call it herd immunity.

He's taking a long term outlook on it as the best strategy for protecting the health of their citizens and saving their economy as much as possible. It's a Swedish middle way if you like between the madness of UK herd immunity and full lockdown. This way the economy is not entirely crippled and life can continue with some degree of normality until a vaccine is found.

Why are they keeping emergency legislation in reserve then? its kinda wanting it both ways to me it says we are trying this for the moment but if it dose not work we have something else. It is not saying we know for certain this is the correct approach.

Sweden has reached cross-party agreement on sweeping emergency powers to close shops, restaurants and schools in response to the coronavirus crisis – but the governnment has no immediate plans to use them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-to-enact-crisis-powers-but-hold-them-in-reserve-1.4223367

KiKi III wrote: »

Maybe if Irish people had listened to the government when told to self-isolate instead of immediately flocking to the beach/park/ mountains together, our government wouldn't have needed to introduce a lockdown either.

A lockdown was always going to happen. There's no question about that

Hmmzis wrote: »

Until a treatment or vaccine is found, comparing death rates between countries is a bit misleading I think.
The virus is being spread faster with more people interacting, slower with less people interacting. It will still be spread unless all physical interaction between humans stops. Since that's not possible, we can only influence the speed of infection (that R0 if you will).

With that in mind, faster spread gives you a higher death rate per day, slower spread gives you a lower death rate per day, but at the end of the whole thing it's still going to be the same totals per capita. The assumption here is that we do not exceed the hospital and ICU capacities. The exact same number of people will die, in one case it'll be slower, in the other it'll happen faster.

The advantage of the faster approach is that you get the survivors back to normal life faster.
The advantage of the slower approach is that it gives time for reseaechers to find a treatment that reduces mortality and improves overall outcomes. Therfore reducing the total fatality rate compared to the faster approach.

Sweden is going with the fast option.
We are going with the slower approach hoping for a timely treatment option to become available.

In both cases it's a gamble of sorts.

Thank you for a reasoned argument. It's refreshing.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Not to be pedantic here, but the virus will only be stopped if physical interaction between INFECTED people is stopped. This can been seen from the level of healthcare workers infected.

A lot of people have the misconception that the virus is everywhere, it’s not. It has the potential to be.

As an island if we severely limit travel into and out of the country, and we reduce internal movement drastically the virus will eventually die off on the island. Precisely what NZ have done.

This is complicated slightly by the North having a different approach, there should be a political acknowledgement that north and south will agree to implement changes simultaneously, and when the day comes that The virus is extinct enough in Ireland for movement to recommence we are sandwiched between and rely greatly on travel between two counties whose approach to this has left a lot to be desired.

If we open up travel to the US to soon then another wave is all but guaranteed.

In the meantime let’s try and be NZ

Australia are doing very well as well, maybe the warmer southern hemisphere season does have an affect on it. This will be tough on New Zealand though, they will have to lock themselves away from the rest of the world.