Sweden avoiding lockdown

12-04-2020 08:21AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Finland is not culturally nor geographically the same as sweden at all.
Finland is not even Scandinavian.

Finland was ruled by Sweden for 700 years. The geography is exactly the same. If you were put standing in the middle of the countryside on either country, they would look the same.

They are culturally very similar.
The Swedes are more sociable, but very similar

And I know Finland is not Scandinavian, thanks. It's Nordic.

And if you want to compare Sweden with any country, it shouldnt be Ireland. Finland is a much better country to compare with.

Mongfinder General · 12-04-2020 09:12AM

2u2me wrote: »

Are you aware that they enforced a draconian lockdown for a duration of 11 weeks, much earlier than the rest of the world, that just ended in the last few days? Do you think it had any effect on the spread of the virus?

Are you aware that for the 3 weeks preceding the lockdown, chinese citizens were allowed to go about their business as usual. This was despite authorities knowing that the virus was infecting people.

There are 11 million people in Wuhan. Very few cases have been recorded in Beijing despite there being no restrictions on travel during that 3 week period. Yet the virus has been found in the Amazon.

This is a country that has hundreds of thousands of people in re-education camps. I prefer to believe what I'm seeing in places like Spain, Italy, the UK and New York.

80000 cases is a complete fairytale. Who knows what the real tally is there.

dubrov · 12-04-2020 09:16AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Finland is not culturally nor geographically the same as sweden at all.
Finland is not even Scandinavian.

Are you seriously trying to argue Ireland is culturally and geographically more similar to Sweden than Finland is?

2u2me · 12-04-2020 09:22AM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Are you aware that for the 3 weeks preceding the lockdown, chinese citizens were allowed to go about their business as usual. This was despite authorities knowing that the virus was infecting people.

There are 11 million people in Wuhan. Very few cases have been recorded in Beijing despite there being no restrictions on travel during that 3 week period. Yet the virus has been found in the Amazon.

This is a country that has hundreds of thousands of people in re-education camps. I prefer to believe what I'm seeing in places like Spain, Italy, the UK and New York.

80000 cases is a complete fairytale. Who knows what the real tally is there.

Sure they might have gone about their business as normal for a few weeks while they were verifying the severity of the virus or attempting to cover up.

While you take note of this important factor you make no mention of how long our western governments took , how long was that? If I told you 2 months would this make any difference in how you see things?

Numbers don't matter so much, watch the trend lines, and see what restrictions countries are making. It all adds up I'm afraid if you have any other evidence fire away.

Obviously the 80,000 figure is 'wrong' it does not reflect the total amount of cases in China. Either do any of the numbers on the Johnshopkins site, as no country is able to do proper testing.
It does not mean it is a lie, which is a statement made with intent to deceive.

You can also look at the number of deceased to gauge how many infected there were.

KiKi III · 12-04-2020 09:28AM

kowloon wrote: »

I seem to remember that being a thing in New York before it was here.

New York isn’t a country.

Rvsmmnps · 12-04-2020 10:26AM

We are pretty much over it. Things feeling normal again. We never did full lockdown either (Norway)
Not very much sensational news outlets here either

Rvsmmnps · 12-04-2020 10:27AM

We are pretty much over it. Things feeling normal again. We never did full lockdown either (Norway)
Not very much sensational news outlets here either

dubrov · 12-04-2020 10:30AM

Rvsmmnps wrote: »

We are pretty much over it. Things feeling normal again. We never did full lockdown either (Norway)
Not very much sensational news outlets here either

It looks like it never really started in Norway.

There will be a whole load of analysis to be done after this thing has blown over.

Assetbacked · 12-04-2020 10:35AM

Rvsmmnps wrote: »

We are pretty much over it. Things feeling normal again. We never did full lockdown either (Norway)
Not very much sensational news outlets here either

As of Friday, 156 deaths came from former nursing home patients and 133 from other patients. The narrative at this stage is to avoid complacency by prematurely saying we are through the worst of it, but the hope this Easter Sunday that we are in fact through the worst of it is bolstered by the data to date. Have a good Easter!

Rvsmmnps · 12-04-2020 10:52AM

The state looked at the figures from Italy, they explained their interpretation of the deaths, amounts, ages, and decided as of 27 April the country will get going again.
We have isolated old folks homes completely.
I will probably never use public transport again, never was a big fan of it anyway.

biko · 12-04-2020 10:55AM

COVID-19 deaths per million people
Sweden 88
Denmark 45
Norway 18
Finland 9

Let's see in 3 weeks...
World's first feminist government (Social Democrats and Greens), have a plan of throwing elderly citizens under the bus.
This will have caused a hell of a lot more deaths by then.
That is - if they even count them as Corona deaths, Sweden has a history of "adjusting" numbers.

Loafing Oaf · 12-04-2020 10:58AM

biko wrote: »

COVID-19 deaths per million people
Sweden 88
Denmark 45
Norway 18
Finland 9

Big job for the epidemiologists in the coming years explaining why such superficially similar countries have had such wildly varying outcomes with this disease...

biko · 12-04-2020 11:02AM

A Swede's take on it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBCY9jGhubI

biko · 12-04-2020 11:09AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Big job for the epidemiologists in the coming years explaining why such superficially similar countries have had such wildly varying outcomes with this disease...

It's pretty much Sweden vs everyone else.
Most countries have been in lockdown for over a month, in Sweden they just went from restricting 500 people gatherings to 50.

KiKi III · 12-04-2020 11:25AM

biko wrote: »

A Swede's take on it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBCY9jGhubI

I have to say, he’s a fantastic content creator. I really didn’t think I’d watch the full 20 minutes but I did.

I was disappointed by the end though; he starts out by saying we have to get as clear a picture as possible of what’s hidden in the two tunnels but then he only goes into one?

I kept waiting for him to compare the devastation to the economy with the devastation of the virus and he just didn’t?

Loafing Oaf · 12-04-2020 11:54AM

biko wrote: »

It's pretty much Sweden vs everyone else.

Not the only thing going on though. Denmark was one of the first European countries to introduce lockdown and their death rate is significantly worse than Norway or Finland. Population density possibly a significant factor here...

normanoffside · 12-04-2020 12:13PM

dubrov wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to argue Ireland is culturally and geographically more similar to Sweden than Finland is?

No, I was just being pedantic.
I know many Finns and they would not be happy you told them they were culturally 'the same' as Swedes.

I am not arguing on the Geographical point.

biko · 12-04-2020 12:19PM

KiKi III wrote: »

I have to say, he’s a fantastic content creator. I really didn’t think I’d watch the full 20 minutes but I did.

This video is more about the Swedes and their reaction to the crisis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOYYe546TT8

KiKi III · 12-04-2020 12:20PM

biko wrote: »

This video is more about the Swedes and their reaction to the crisis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOYYe546TT8

Ah you hooked me for 20 minutes already Biko, I’m not doing another one too.

biko · 12-04-2020 12:23PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not the only thing going on though. Denmark was one of the first European countries to introduce lockdown and their death rate is significantly worse than Norway or Finland. Population density possibly a significant factor here...

Indeed, Denmark has been successful in avoiding a spike in coronavirus cases.

But now the government wants to lift some of the more extreme measures, in a bid to resuscitate the country's comatose economy.
It will start next week by allowing primary schools and creches to reopen.

Once the schools return, the Danish government will then consider allowing smaller businesses and shops to reopen on a gradual basis.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0412/1130075-lockdown-exit-austria-and-denmark-take-first-steps/
So while Europe has locked down and now are trying to open up Sweden didn't even lock down in the first place
Insanity or genius, we'll see soon.

duffer247 · 12-04-2020 12:25PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not the only thing going on though. Denmark was one of the first European countries to introduce lockdown and their death rate is significantly worse than Norway or Finland. Population density possibly a significant factor here...

Anyone have any details on Denmark's early lock down? I think their schools closed the same time as ours, a ban on groupings of 10+, children could continue to hang out with 1 friend and I think people could travel freely enough.

I've seen a few articles on Denmark benefiting from early strict lockdown but outside of closing their borders I can't see what they did differently?

duffer247 · 12-04-2020 12:27PM

biko wrote: »

Indeed, Denmark has been successful in avoiding a spike in coronavirus cases.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0412/1130075-lockdown-exit-austria-and-denmark-take-first-steps/
So while Europe has locked down and now are trying to open up Sweden didn't even lock down in the first place
Insanity or genius, we'll see soon.

Pretty sure Denmark didn't bother with any community testing

biko · 12-04-2020 12:31PM

Fun fact, since the crisis started the government have moved out the EU flags from their press conferences and now only display Swedish flags in the room and on their clothing.

biko · 12-04-2020 12:35PM

duffer247 wrote: »

Pretty sure Denmark didn't bother with any community testing

Sounds like a guess. Can you not just google it?

Seamie12345 · 12-04-2020 12:46PM

Clark Dry Kidney wrote: »

While we aren't perfect for a small island nation we have trailblazed plenty of times throughout recent times and past history.

I get what you're saying about being proud, I love this country always have always will.

I do think we have done as good a job as possible so far with this virus. While there will always be a handful of gob****e citizens I believe our government, health services, front line and essential workers along with individual communities have more than stepped up to the plate.

I could get on board with this idea but 4 weeks into the weeks off school, 2 attempts at seeing the effects of social distancing (at 2 weeks each), and still not having our borders closed off to all but freight means we are undoubtedly still importing cases - that should be an issue we deal with AFTER we've "beaten" it on the Island, not be trying to deal with it while still battling with a spreading in-country contagion.

biko · 12-04-2020 12:52PM

Norway has closed its border to Sweden since Patrick's Day.
Returning Norwegians have to quarantine for 2 weeks.

coastwatch · 12-04-2020 02:10PM

What are the current lockdown / restrictions in Norway?

biko · 12-04-2020 02:13PM

Norway gov https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-to-lift-covid-19-restrictions-gradually-and-cautiously/id2697060/

Forbes has some here https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/07/norway-pm-relaxes-coronavirus-restrictions-but-event-ban-continues/

coastwatch · 12-04-2020 02:23PM

biko wrote: »

Norway gov https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuelt/norway-to-lift-covid-19-restrictions-gradually-and-cautiously/id2697060/

Forbes has some here https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/07/norway-pm-relaxes-coronavirus-restrictions-but-event-ban-continues/

Thanks, that looks like a good template for easing restrictions here, when the time comes.

thebaz · 12-04-2020 03:27PM

Swedish figures released today :-

332 new cases
12 new deaths

Again , given experts predictions, why are these figures not so much higher ?
They are asking its citizens to behave in an adult manner, and social distance , maybe they actually are, without need for police enforcement and complete economic shutdown.

Sweden avoiding lockdown

Comments