Conor McGregor thread (MMA Talk Only - Read 1st Post Before Posting)

Ush1 wrote: »

Bit of a nonsense to beat lightweight contenders at 170lbs and then come looking for a lightweight title shot.

Out of curiosity, why?
If they both made the cut to 156 and then rehydrated back to whatever wait they walked at. What difference would it make?

RoryMac wrote: »

What would be the point of weight classes if some fighters can skip the weight cut to get into contention for a title shot but others have to break their bollíx to make weight?

Should be a level playing field for all, if you want a title shot at a weight you earn it at that weight imo.

This should be the be way but UFC is not about who is the best fighter its about making the UFC money ,

What ever way they can manipulate fights or fighter without going to far (fixing fights ) to make sure the real money fights happen they will do it

Unfortunately when it was sold for what 4 Billion ? this was always the road it was going down , for god sake they make up belts to sell pay per views ,

The Nal wrote: »

Dana will put Conor in wherever he can. Since the Khabib fight which did 2.4m PPV buys

3 PPV buys in 2019 (I know ESPN obscures it somewhat).

UFC 234 Silva vs. Adesanya 175,000
UFC 235 Jones vs. Smith 650,000
UFC 236 Holloway vs. Poirier 2 100,000

UFC 246 McGregor vs Cerrone 2,000,000

Are the other numbers "adjusted" to account for the new ESPN model the way the (almost certainly bull****) 2m number has for UFC 246?

I've no doubt that 246 would have sold more than the others by a considerable distance but the numbers have to be consistent.

ChrisM wrote: »

Who would McGregor fight though, Tony for the belt or Khabib for revenge?
?

I don’t think Conor can win against Khabib.
Khabib van take a hard lunch and once he gets in close his wrestling game is to dominate

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Are the other numbers "adjusted" to account for the new ESPN model the way the (almost certainly bull****) 2m number has for UFC 246?
.

No its quite muddy from now on with ESPN. 2m ish isn't really surprising though.

https://twitter.com/GamebredFighter/status/1220699560420483072

GiftofGab wrote: »

Hard to believe Poirier vs Holloway did over 2m+. Crazy if true but some of boxings biggest fights didn't do that much.

It didn't, it was Holloway v Poirier 2

Mellor wrote: »

The point of weight classes is to match fighters based on body mass for a given fight.
This doesn’t change that.

Weight classes have nothing to do with making a fighter break their bollox. That’s simply an unfortunate side effect of the current system. It’s pretty universally agreed that the weight cutting system is one if the worst aspects of the sport. When two fighters agree to not cut, it’s usually held up as a good thing. I don’t think they should suffer consequences for doing that.

Obviously, fighters can’t constantly operate with that gentlemen’s agreement, as they’d just creep up in weight. But once every few fights I’m ok with.
Maybe the fight us booked without the guarantee of the agreement.


Which kinda contradicts what you say above.

The point of titles is that they correlate with a weight class. Also rankings etc..

https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1221266981438935045

ESPN and Stephen A Smith will be loving that. He's a very well paid troll and he's getting the biggest bites he can.

Mellor wrote: »

I wasn’t suggesting that anyone shouldn’t make weight for a title fight. But for non title fights I’m ok with it. As you said, that fight was two LWs not two WWs.

I mean, if two fighters both weight around 170 a week out. And will weigh 170 in the cage.
What’s difference does the cut to 155 a day out actually achieve?
Nothing. It’s just there to keep fighters in check

That's always been the point of weight classes.

I'm not talking about the point of weight cutting, it achieves nothing in terms of a title fight either if we're going that way.

But rankings and titles are based on the weight class you weigh in at, not your actual weight.

Just because some people say McGregor is a lightweight and Gaethje is a lightweight, doesn't have any meaning if they are constantly weighing in at 170lbs does it?

Ush1 wrote: »

Just because some people say McGregor is a lightweight and Gaethje is a lightweight, doesn't have any meaning if they are constantly weighing in at 170lbs does it?

I don't really see the issue here to be honest.
Everyone knows that they only weight 155 for that morning of the weigh in, and are back to pretty much their normal weight come fight night, which is usually around 170.
If we know they're going to weigh 170, why is there an issue with them deciding to not dehydrate themselves, especially for a non title fight.

Title fight, fair enough, it's for a title. Although I don't agree with weight cuts at all and would love if they were done away with. That way everyone would/should be competing in their natural weight division.

Mellor wrote: »

In regards to “constantly weighing in at 170”, it’s happened once so far. And as I said fighters can’t be agreeing not to cut every fight.

So you agree with me?

And John Kavanagh has said his preference for the next fight is Gaethje at 170lbs. That's what I meant by constantly, fighting a number of times at 170lbs and then expecting a title shot at 155lbs is a bit beyond farce in terms of weight classes.

To your other point, you could have a gentlemens agreement for a belt. Nothing to stop that. All it takes is someone who doesn't cut weight to win a belt and nobody who fights them to cut weight.

That's the problem with gentlemens agreements though, people will take advantage.

Ush1 wrote: »

So should every non title fight be at a weight class above what the fighter will fight for a title at?

If it was that across the board I could see some sort of logic. The weight cut will effect you, positively or negatively eventually. If that's for a normal fight or for a title fight. It changes the dynamic of the whole division.

Maybe Cowboy would have beat Conor at 155lbs?(I don't actually believe this)

If the fighters decide on it, I don't see why not. It's their body.

I'd like the weight cut to be done away with altogether, but I don't see that happening any time soon.


Cowboy struggles with bigger weight cuts so I'd say he'd probably have been worse off at 155, if that was possible.

Ush1 wrote: »

So you agree with me?

And John Kavanagh has said his preference for the next fight is Gaethje at 170lbs. That's what I meant by constantly, fighting a number of times at 170lbs and then expecting a title shot at 155lbs is a bit beyond farce in terms of weight classes.

I said in one of my first posts that it can't happen every fight.
If it were to become the status quo, people would abuse it by "cutting" more and more to get to the agreed no-cut weight. Eventually, they are fighting at a weight where they can't make the divisional weight. That's not what happened here.

I'm saying that intermittently agreeing to do it. Shouldn't affect a fighters standing in their real division. The ranking should be based on ability alone. Whether Conor and Cowboy cut or not, shouldn't factor into where you place them at 155.

I think he's need to fight Gaethje at 155 is the goal in Khabib after that.

To your other point, you could have a gentlemens agreement for a belt. Nothing to stop that. All it takes is someone who doesn't cut weight to win a belt and nobody who fights them to cut weight.

No you can't.
Khabib and Tony can agree to not cut weight and show up at 170. Nothing stops the agreement. But the commisions rules mean that the title is no longer on the line.

RoryMac wrote: »

That's not what I said at all!

I said it was unfair to allow fighters get credit for fighting without a weightcut while others would be expected to.

You said "what would be the point of weight classes". Which ignores the actual point of weight classes.
Neither Conor or Cowboy had to cut. They had equal terms and conditions. That doesn't affect what happens to other fighters in other fights. Nor does it affect their ability at 155 - ie what ranking should be based on.

It makes far more sense to credit that fight to Conor's standing at 155 than his standing 170 imo. I guess that's my point in a nutshell.

It's hard to imagine any fighter other than McGregor would get the leeway to do this and still be bumped up the rankings in a weight class they're not fighting in.

It's happened a few times in the past. Nobody ever had an issue with it that I can remember, in fact the general attitude was "I wish more fighters would do that". Don't recall the fighters not getting credit ever being suggested either. But funnily enough, as soon as Conor does it...

Mellor wrote: »

I said in one of my first posts that it can't happen every fight.

That's why I said it's a nonsense.

Mellor wrote: »

No you can't.
Khabib and Tony can agree to not cut weight and show up at 170. Nothing stops the agreement. But the commisions rules mean that the title is no longer on the line.

Yes you can, it just involves eliminating weight cutting. Khabib and Tony can show up and fight for the 170 belt without either of them cutting weight, one of them just has to win it first. Reread what I posted.

Ush1 wrote: »

That's why I said it's a nonsense.

Maybe we're talking about two different things.
My comments are aimed at people saying the fight verses Cowboy should have no implication on their standing in the 155 pecking order.
Before we all knew it was just two LWs at 170.

Yes you can, it just involves eliminating weight cutting. Khabib and Tony can show up and fight for the 170 belt without either of them cutting weight, one of them just has to win it first. Reread what I posted.

We were talking about two fighters not cutting weight and agreeing to fight at the weight above. That can't happen for a championship fight.


What you are describing is different. Could happen, but realistically it won't as neither holds the belt, and to win it, they'd have to bulk up to over 170.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe I know I'm not going to make the weight because I put on a bit too much so I'll chance my arm a week out

Yes of course.
Generally only happens when there is a level of mutual respect between fighters.
Certainly wouldn't happen when a fighter has a history of missing weight.

Mellor wrote: »

Maybe we're talking about two different things.
My comments are aimed at people saying the fight verses Cowboy should have no implication on their standing in the 155 pecking order.
Before we all knew it was just two LWs at 170.

We were but now that you mention it.
What has more implication in the 155 pecking order, two "lightweights" fighting at lightweight or at 170lbs?

Mellor wrote: »

We were talking about two fighters not cutting weight and agreeing to fight at the weight above. That can't happen for a championship fight.


What you are describing is different. Could happen, but realistically it won't as neither holds the belt, and to win it, they'd have to bulk up to over 170.

I was talking about "gentlemens agreements". They could be done for title fights as much as any other fight, they just won't because of the inherent problem with "gentlements agreements.

Mellor wrote: »

More implication?
I'd say 155 is marginally ahead. As it includes all aspects of the 170 fight, whereas the visa versa isn't true.

But I'd put the 170 fight ahead of a fight where somebody badly misses weight. As missing has negative connotations that the 170 fight doesn't have.


The "gentlemens agreements" is two fighters agreeing to fight at the weight above their own in order to avoid cutting.
An incumbent champion can't do that and still have the belt on the line.

Usually fighters agree that at relatively short notice for reasons mentioned above. I'm trying to think of an example.

McGregor Diaz 1 is probably an example, Diaz didn't have time to cut to 155.

Mellor wrote: »

Kinda, but I'm thinking more of a time when two guys were in camp and could have made weight but just said lets not cut. Drawing a blank and googles not helping.

Didn't Queally do it in one of his last fights actually? Against Ryan Scope I think it was.

H8GHOTI wrote: »

I understand that. My point was if everyone cuts, where’s the advantage?
If two fighters cut from the same weight and rehydrate back to the same weight, neither have an advantage. Cutting was just a waste of time and effort.

If McGregor fights Gaethje at 155 what weight will they be on fight night? Both around the same?

The advantage is that you know that the other fella is at the same weight. (It's a Nash equilibrium if you will) Either he's a bit smaller than you and hasn't killed himself or he's a bit bigger walking around and has put more pressure on himself to make it down. Everyone will try to give themselves an edge. If you move a weigh in to a week out, you will just get even bigger fellas dying themselves out even more because they have more time to recover.

The average person isn't even aware of how their weight fluctuates during the day, or how much difference a kg or two can make in terms of power it adds or effort in taking it off. I doubt most of the posters on here have experience on here as the vast majority seem to have no experience of anything like the practical side of things such as managing weight. (And I'm not talking about failed New Years resolutions to get rid of the Christmas pudding belly.)

Mellor wrote: »

Not all fighters cut the same. Some guys are cutting huge amounts for the advantage.
Others are just cutting normal amounts to minimise opponents advantage.


Some people are relatively new to the sport and or simply aren’t aware. Nothing wrong with that or asking questions?
Didn’t you just post that you didn’t know what the weight classes were?

Yes, I do not know the weight classes for MMA. And I wasn't arsed enough to google for them. It has nothing got to do with the concepts of losing weight or having an optimum weight that you will try to attain.

As for people relatively new to the sport, sure that is 99% of the people. Fair enough, a few might consider themselves seasoned veterans in that they bought all of the last 3 Conor McGregor pay-per-views. I posted a thread about a year ago asking people to post their records/experience and it got zero responses. Zero.
Given that there are not that many new threads on the forum, it slowly drifted off the front page probably over 6 or 8 months.

The hardest weight cut I ever had to make myself was about 5% of body weight less than a week out. It just wasn't coming off quick enough before that. It was grand though. Got it down and got through two weigh-ins on subsequent days bang on. I could feel it though. If you want to swap stories about making weight in the context of people asking about it, sure fire ahead and I'll be interested. It won't matter if you did it for boxing, wrestling or MMA. But I didn't buy any Conor McGregor pay-per-views so maybe it wouldn't count.


Edit:
Here's that "record" thread in case anyone actually does want to post their record. It finally drifted to the top of page 3! https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057968714

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, I do not know the weight classes for MMA. And I wasn't arsed enough to google for them. It has nothing got to do with the concepts of losing weight or having an optimum weight that you will try to attain.

As for people relatively new to the sport, sure that is 99% of the people. Fair enough, a few might consider themselves seasoned veterans in that they bought all of the last 3 Conor McGregor pay-per-views. I posted a thread about a year ago asking people to post their records/experience and it got zero responses. Zero.
Given that there are not that many new threads on the forum, it slowly drifted off the front page probably over 6 or 8 months.

The hardest weight cut I ever had to make myself was about 5% of body weight less than a week out. It just wasn't coming off quick enough before that. It was grand though. Got it down and got through two weigh-ins on subsequent days bang on. I could feel it though. If you want to swap stories about making weight in the context of people asking about it, sure fire ahead and I'll be interested. It won't matter if you did it for boxing, wrestling or MMA. But I didn't buy any Conor McGregor pay-per-views so maybe it wouldn't count.


Edit:
Here's that "record" thread in case anyone actually does want to post their record. It finally drifted to the top of page 3! https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057968714

Odd post. I wouldn't necessarily conflagrate people's personal experience in the sport with their ability to discuss it. I wouldn't ask somebody what there playing experience was before talking about football, nor would I ask somebody their previous results in local elections before discussing politics

Regarding "seasoned veterans", it's true that a number of the posters here are relatively new, and many of the original posters here that would have had extensive experience in both training and competing no longer post, but there are still a number of posters (myself included) that have been around MMA for much longer than the last three McGregor ppvs.

With regards to weight cutting, my own experience (mostly bjj) has been that the weigh in was either very close to, or directly before my matches, so shedding water weight didn't seem like the best idea. Instead, I made sure the weight class I entered was within a couple of kilos of my current weight, and my 'cut' would really be weight loss due to cleaning my diet, and doing some road work, no water cut