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Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

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Comments

  • #502
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Any conspiracy theorist in here that doesn't loathe Bill Gates?

    I don't think it's that people loathe him, but rather that they are wary of him. I certainly don't loathe him.


  • #503
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    But what I don't understand is why the focus on this virus and not on more dangerous illnesses. Since June more people have died from the flu and pneumonia in the UK than from the virus.

    And I actually support vaccines. But I would not like to be forced to take one in order to take part in society. But, as I've said before, I would not hesitate to take the Russian vaccine as I consider it to be extremely safe.

    I reckon you do understand :)


  • #504
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    But what I don't understand is why the focus on this virus and not on more dangerous illnesses. Since June more people have died from the flu and pneumonia in the UK than from the virus.
    The panicked rush for this flu's lockdown and emergency use vaccine sure is starting to outweigh the benefits. Some of the stories appearing in recent weeks (mostly from the uk) give some perspective since lockdown (<6mths):

    • 322,000 there are now behind in their rents of accomodation.
    • 174,000 have 'eviction action' started against them, an eviction ban was also lifted this week.
    • 'Dangerous' drinking levels up approx 1/3rd (with 1/2m extra at increased levels, classed:dangerous) from 1.6m to 2.2m
    • Domestic violence levels up approx 200%
    • Increase of abortions via telemedicine (skype etc) for home use for both stages of early medical abortion (without scans) in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Est. 200,000per annum E&W. There is a lack of mental or counselling support or in-person consultations, associated with telemedicines.
    • Calls to adult helplines with mental issues up around 200%
    • Zero deaths(covid) of any healthy children*, and no recommendations (<11) to wear facecoverings, yet many primary schools (<11) proudly enforcing manditory usage of on all pupils on social media.
    • Calls to childline also up approx 200%, largest risk to youngsters is now actually self-termination incidents.
    • Long-term damage due to isolation/distancing policies (some even regard this as a torture technique)
    • Long-term increase in other health issues, e.g. Cancers due to reduced access to services, and outweigh covid (1m global so far) by many multiples.
    • Collapse of enterprise activities, 186,000 redundancies since March 23.
    • Obese people (1/4 of population) are 200% more likely to succumb to covid, yet lockdowns only increase this trend further, due to panic/comfort eating and sport, outdoor restrictions.

    It will be interesting to watch Sweden's once controversial approach, and observing the spread of the most contagious (D614G) mutation, which is also the least dangerous.


  • #505
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    The panicked rush for this flu's lockdown and emergency use vaccine sure is starting to outweigh the benefits. Some of the stories appearing in recent weeks (mostly from the uk) give some perspective since lockdown (<6mths):

    • 322,000 there are now behind in their rents of accomodation.
    • 174,000 have 'eviction action' started against them, an eviction ban was also lifted this week.
    • 'Dangerous' drinking levels up approx 1/3rd (with 1/2m extra at increased levels, classed:dangerous) from 1.6m to 2.2m
    • Domestic violence levels up approx 200%
    • Increase of abortions via telemedicine (skype etc) for home use for both stages of early medical abortion (without scans) in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Est. 200,000per annum E&W. There is a lack of mental or counselling support or in-person consultations, associated with telemedicines.
    • Calls to adult helplines with mental issues up around 200%
    • Zero deaths(covid) of any healthy children*, and no recommendations (<11) to wear facecoverings, yet many primary schools (<11) proudly enforcing manditory usage of on all pupils on social media.
    • Calls to childline also up approx 200%, largest risk to youngsters is now actually self-termination incidents.
    • Long-term damage due to isolation/distancing policies (some even regard this as a torture technique)
    • Long-term increase in other health issues, e.g. Cancers due to reduced access to services, and outweigh covid (1m global so far) by many multiples.
    • Collapse of enterprise activities, 186,000 redundancies since March 23.
    • Obese people (1/4 of population) are 200% more likely to succumb to covid, yet lockdowns only increase this trend further, due to panic/comfort eating and sport, outdoor restrictions.

    It will be interesting to watch Sweden's once controversial approach, and observing the spread of the most contagious (D614G) mutation, which is also the least dangerous.

    Okay, what's the conspiracy?


  • #506
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Okay, what's the conspiracy?

    Did you not read his important statistic about obese people being driven to comfort eating? :pac:


  • #507
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Okay, what's the conspiracy?
    That the evil satanists in power are overblowing the effects of the pandemic to introduce sinister measures that will aid them in eventually marking everyone with a microchip/barcode/tattoo as per the biblical prophesy.


  • #508
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,645 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    King Mob wrote: »
    That the evil satanists in power are overblowing the effects of the pandemic to introduce sinister measures that will aid them in eventually marking everyone with a microchip/barcode/tattoo as per the biblical prophesy.

    What was the name of this movie again?


  • #509
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    What was the name of this movie again?
    "Left Behind" I think.


  • #510
    Sccye
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Sccye


    I'm in the odd position of doing ethnographic research on the HPV vaccine, so I've been rattling around a lot of spaces in Dublin and thinking a lot about vaccines. I definitely have my reservations about a hastily produced vaccine being distributed at scale; particularly if measures are brought in to make it mandatory.

    But, as with everything, there's nothing that's totally safe or totally effective; the question is whether the ultimate benefits outweigh the risks. But COVID is about more than body counts; it's intensely political, economic and has huge ramifications for health in other ways. I've seen the guidance on masks change twenty times in the last 6 months, from doctors being sacked for wearing masks at the wrong times when it wasn't hospital policy to people claiming they were totally unnecessary, to now 'anti-masker' being a synonym for 'anti-vaxxer'. The issues are about morality and politics that are tangled up in the 'science', which is far from settled or clear. And speaking like that, I sound like some of my participants who are definitely on the sceptical end of the spectrum around vaccines.

    It's dicey as balls and I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant about getting the shot.


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  • #511
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Sccye wrote: »
    I'm in the odd position of doing ethnographic research on the HPV vaccine, so I've been rattling around a lot of spaces in Dublin and thinking a lot about vaccines. I definitely have my reservations about a hastily produced vaccine being distributed at scale; particularly if measures are brought in to make it mandatory.

    But, as with everything, there's nothing that's totally safe or totally effective; the question is whether the ultimate benefits outweigh the risks. But COVID is about more than body counts; it's intensely political, economic and has huge ramifications for health in other ways. I've seen the guidance on masks change twenty times in the last 6 months, from doctors being sacked for wearing masks at the wrong times when it wasn't hospital policy to people claiming they were totally unnecessary, to now 'anti-masker' being a synonym for 'anti-vaxxer'. The issues are about morality and politics that are tangled up in the 'science', which is far from settled or clear. And speaking like that, I sound like some of my participants who are definitely on the sceptical end of the spectrum around vaccines.

    It's dicey as balls and I wouldn't blame anyone for being hesitant about getting the shot.

    Right. What's the conspiracy?


  • #512
    FutureTeashock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 439 ✭✭FutureTeashock


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Right. What's the conspiracy?

    This thread was not originally posted in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    This thread is based on the fact a rushed vaccine poses risks.

    That is not debatable, it is 100% true.


  • #513
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    FutureTeashock wrote: »
    This thread was not originally posted in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    This thread is based on the fact a rushed vaccine poses risks.

    That is not debatable, it is 100% true.

    Don't post in this thread again.


  • #514
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    FutureTeashock wrote: »
    This thread was not originally posted in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    This thread is based on the fact a rushed vaccine poses risks.

    That is not debatable, it is 100% true.

    The problem is when we ask why the vaccine poses risks, we get answers like:
    "It's a plot to depopulate the world."
    "It's part of the plot to give everyone the mark of the beast."
    "All vaccines are evil and don't actually work."
    "Covid isn't real/isn't as dangerous."

    And the people with "valid concerns" seem perfectly fine with these claims being thrown in with their own. Which is weird given the amount of whining we got about lumping people in with others.


  • #515
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    The problem is when we ask why the vaccine poses risks, we get answers like:
    "It's a plot to depopulate the world."
    "It's part of the plot to give everyone the mark of the beast."
    "All vaccines are evil and don't actually work."
    "Covid isn't real/isn't as dangerous."

    And the people with "valid concerns" seem perfectly fine with these claims being thrown in with their own. Which is weird given the amount of whining we got about lumping people in with others.

    I dunno, I am thankful for reading such people. While the mainstream news were parroting the HSE nonsense that the country faced no risk of a covid outbreak, the CTers made me sit up and take notice. Was fully prepped with essentials and the likes of hand sanitisers/masks for my family and parents by the end of Feb.


  • #516
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    I dunno, I am thankful for reading such people. While the mainstream news were parroting the HSE nonsense that the country faced no risk of a covid outbreak, the CTers made me sit up and take notice. Was fully prepped with essentials and the likes of hand sanitisers/masks for my family and parents by the end of Feb.
    So what are you doing to prepare for the coming mark of the beast?
    Maybe you should stop reading the news entirely and just get your information from the likes of Alex Jones.

    Also, aren't conspiracy theorists telling you that you don't need hand sanitizer and masks since the virus isn't real/not very serious/artificial?
    Why would that have prompted you to do the opposite?


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  • #517
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    Not the ones I was reading then mate :) Actually don't recall seeing that at all as a CT at the time. That was more a mainstream thing like the HSE said.


  • #518
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Not the ones I was reading then mate :)
    But the ones here and now, who you said you were "thankful" for are saying that.
    So they're wrong, but you are glad they are posting things that are wrong? :confused:
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Actually don't recall seeing that at all as a CT at the time. That was more a mainstream thing like the HSE said.
    What? That it's a giant global conspiracy to depopulate the world at the behest of Bill Gates and other satanists?


  • #519
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Interesting article on CNN health:
    Past vaccine disasters show why rushing a coronavirus vaccine now would be 'colossally stupid'

    As well as the Swine Flu that never was, and the two Polio incidents, even perhaps the cocktail that resulted in GulfWarSyndrome, the FDA granted an EUA (emergency use authorisation) to the drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, but now they can't make up their minds to their actual worth and safety, it changes by the week.

    One big factor at the moment (to push EUA) is that of politics. Many states across the world hold their leadership at reduced approval ratings, by pushing millions (or billions) of units, they can push millions of extra votes. As it stands, the Swedes who've done the very least, are now emmerging as the most positive approach.

    On the plus side, fans of experimental covid vaccines are (and indeed should) sign up to various drug trials, seen one advertised paying a handsome 5k for simple and easy two week supervised lab-hotel type stay, playstations and movies are available, just sign the medical negligence type disclaimer on the way in.


  • #520
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    But the ones here and now, who you said you were "thankful" for are saying that.
    So they're wrong, but you are glad they are posting things that are wrong? :confused:

    I'm glad there's some discussion about it from all angles.
    What? That it's a giant global conspiracy to depopulate the world at the behest of Bill Gates and other satanists?

    That it wasn't a big deal.


    So 6 months on, what's happened? Well cases are rising but deaths are fairly steady (in the West) and what else? Well police state lockdowns across countries, massive empowerment of the state all under the guise of controlling corona, a complete and utter gutting of certain sections of the economy, government's encouraging people to inform on their families and neighbours, ever more draconian laws coming. Sure even Boris was saying at lunch that the military will be helping the police to enforce the rules. Attend a protest? That'll be £10,000 fine. Government's deliberately stoking up the fear factor to scare the public senseless.

    Of course that's not in all countries. Funny how vilified Sweden are. But remember, don't ask questions, wear your mask (probably goggles in a few weeks too), put face protectors on newborn babies, or else you've as good as killed Granny. You don't hate Granny do you? Now we'll just pass some more legislation that'll get a whimper of press coverage if even... don't you worry about that :)


  • #521
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    I'm glad there's some discussion about it from all angles.
    Even if some of those angles include stuff like massive global depopulation plots and "marks of the beasts"?

    How does discussing untrue things as if they were true help?
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    That it wasn't a big deal.
    Please provide an example of the HSE saying that.
    A link to a statement would be fine.
    Thanks.


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  • #522
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    How does discussing untrue things as if they were true help?

    What's true and untrue, can't be always known at the time.
    Please provide an example of the HSE saying that.
    A link to a statement would be fine.
    Thanks.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30977412.html

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0307/1120765-coronavirus/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-51237761

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-risk-remains-low-in-ireland-senior-health-official-39003720.html

    Also from that, remember what was true then?

    "Dr Holohan added that they were not recommending the use of masks or gloves as part of "routine self-protection" for members of the public.

    He said he did not believe masks have a role to play, unless directed by a doctor or medical professional."

    Just like the WHO said. That was true then appparently and you would have shut down any talk against the truth. But now it's Not True. Funny how things change.


  • #523
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    What's true and untrue, can't be always known at the time.
    So you believe there's a chance it might be a global plot to give everyone the mark of the beast and to depopulate the planet by a few billion?

    We can't know till after I suppose...
    :rolleyes:
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30977412.html
    No where in this report is there any quote from the HSE stating that it "wasn't a big deal."

    Also it says:
    The HSE says it is a rapidly evolving situation and that it is prepared to handle a case should it arise in Ireland.

    Jonathan Ball, a professor of virology, says the uncertainty surrounding the virus is causing problems.

    "The big problem is we're still unsure how the virus is spreading, how widespread the virus has become in China and also where it has come from in the first place
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0307/1120765-coronavirus/

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-51237761
    No where in these reports is there any quote from the HSE stating that it "wasn't a big deal."
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-risk-remains-low-in-ireland-senior-health-official-39003720.html
    This is the only link you've provided that quotes the HSE, but it doesn't say it "wasn't a big deal."
    It says:
    Dr Glynn said the state was prepared if the outbreak worsened. He said in such circumstances the Government may be forced to take measures including school closures.

    “The ECDC, the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, has been clear that the situation that we’ve seen evolve in Italy, there’s a moderate to high likelihood that that will occur in other countries such as Ireland,” he told RTE Radio One.

    “We are preparing for that here, but that notwithstanding, we still remain in a containment phase here.

    I think you are taking things completely out of context.
    At the same time, you are being a bit hypocritical.

    On one hand you are defending conspiracy theories, including bizarre ones, by saying that the truth can't be known at the time.
    Yet you are accusing the HSE and other health professionals of underreacting and saying things they didn't.

    It's a bit weird.


  • #524
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    So you believe there's a chance it might be a global plot to give everyone the mark of the beast and to depopulate the planet by a few billion?

    We can't know till after I suppose...
    :rolleyes:

    Can't say I've read that here, well except from you.

    Yeah I got the exact quote wrong, wow you really have me. Little or no risk of outbreak in Ireland, little or no risk of infections... Wow, those statements are certainly a million miles from what I said :)

    I really enjoyed the scare tactic presentation in the UK yesterday. IF cases double and follow Spain and France, then we'll have MASSIVE deaths and cases! But *cough* ignore the fact that Spain and France haven't doubled their cases, and you know deaths are at a massive low... *cough*

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:Chart_of_UK_COVID-19_daily_new_deaths.png

    Look at this chart. They're literally gonna have the army on the streets in the UK for something which has long since passed! But don't worry, we'll take the army off the streets if you all take your rushed vaccine.


  • #525
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Can't say I've read that here, well except from you.
    Then you haven't been reading.
    Maybe you should.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058114414
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058113530
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Little or no risk of outbreak in Ireland, little or no risk of infections... Wow, those statements are certainly a million miles from what I said :)
    But that's not what the quotes said either.

    Also, what are you claiming now? That the governments are overhyping the virus? You've just been claiming they were underhyping it.
    Which is it?


  • #526
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    ranto_boy wrote: »

    I really enjoyed the scare tactic presentation in the UK yesterday. IF cases double and follow Spain and France, then we'll have MASSIVE deaths and cases! But *cough* ignore the fact that Spain and France haven't doubled their cases, and you know deaths are at a massive low... *cough*

    Are you claiming there is some plot by the UK government to overplay the virus? if yes, what is it and why?


  • #527
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Isn't "can't enter the shop/restaurant/buy/travel/work" without your health passport, or unless vaccinated, the Mark of the Beast come to pass?

    Interesting letter: https://www.chicoer.com/2020/09/16/letter-the-mark-of-the-beast/


  • #528
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    Isn't "can't enter the shop/restaurant/buy/travel/work" without your health passport, or unless vaccinated, the Mark of the Beast come to pass?
    No, because there's no such thing as supernatural prophesies.
    The bible has never predicted anything accurately.
    Dionaibh wrote: »
    Interesting letter: https://www.chicoer.com/2020/09/16/letter-the-mark-of-the-beast/
    Why is it interesting?


  • #529
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    King Mob wrote: »
    No, because there's no such thing as supernatural prophesies.
    The bible has never predicted anything accurately.


    Why is it interesting?

    Ezekiel 26: 4-5, for example, came to pass.

    "And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock."

    That is what Alexander the Great did.

    But what's the difference between the Mark of the Beast and not being able to take part in society unless vaccinated? It chimes with the Mark of the Beast.

    I thought it was interesting to learn about Bill Gates' patent.


  • #530
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    Ezekiel 26: 4-5, for example, came to pass.

    "And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock."

    That is what Alexander the Great did.

    I love prophecies

    "See that city over there with a big wall around, someone will invade it"

    - Wow, which day exactly, who will it be?

    "No comment"


  • #531
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,049 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    In lieu of several cards I have opted to delete a number of posts which can be adequately described as backseat modding, sniping, handbagging, character assassination and ad hominem arguments. Please confine your discussion to what has been said on thread without dragging in a bunch of crap from old threads or user histories, and for the love of Jehovah if you can't help but try and make a point along those lines please ensure you employ the height of civility, treating fellow users with the respect you'd deserve yourself. Thanks

    And as always report posts before the cart flies off the rails and down the mountain cheers.


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  • #532
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    But what's the difference between the Mark of the Beast and not being able to take part in society unless vaccinated? It chimes with the Mark of the Beast..
    For one it's not a mark on the head and in the hand.
    For two, there's no such thing as supernatural prophesy, so the Bible could not have predicted it.
    Dionaibh wrote: »
    I thought it was interesting to learn about Bill Gates' patent.
    Why is it interesting? What does a random letter from a random person on the internet provide about the patent?


  • #533
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Are you claiming there is some plot by the UK government to overplay the virus?

    I really don't think that's in doubt. Look at the numbers, compare it to deaths from other causes. The regular Winter flu deaths will be categorised as covid and for the first time ever, will be front page news. Each and every day!
    if yes, what is it and why?

    Funny how supposed of-libertarian-cloth Boris is now leading the most authoritarian government in Britain in a while. It's probably the most left wing too since Atlee. The State is gaining huge inroads in industry (nationalised the trains, just like that), into the lives of ordinary people and is now deploying troops on the street.

    All to fight a virus with a >0.5% fatality.

    Funny that :) I want to discuss this, but yourself and the other lad seem really scared to. Focusing on Bible stuff for some reason. Again, funny that.


  • #534
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    The regular Winter flu deaths will be categorised as covid and for the first time ever, will be front page news.

    All to fight a virus with a >0.5% fatality.
    .
    Neither of these things are true though.


  • #535
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    I am embarrassed, call it no coffee morning. I meant a less than sign! <

    Bloody hell!


  • #536
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    I am embarrassed, call it no coffee morning. I meant a less than sign! <

    Bloody hell!
    But still neither of them are true.


  • #537
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    As we've discussed, what's true today might not be true tomorrow. But I'll give you that one's a prediction, the other is a fact. Covid is nowhere near the beast we thought it was, and the media/government portrays. If you're not old or desperately sick with a serious illness, you'll be fine.


  • #538
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,645 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    As we've discussed, what's true today might not be true tomorrow. But I'll give you that one's a prediction, the other is a fact. Covid is nowhere near the beast we thought it was, and the media/government portrays. If you're not old or desperately sick with a serious illness, you'll be fine.

    But there are plenty of people who are, they are the ones that need protecting. I heard on the radio this morning that intensive care units are filling up with people aged 21 - 40.


  • #539
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But there are plenty of people who are, they are the ones that need protecting. I heard on the radio this morning that intensive care units are filling up with people aged 21 - 40.

    Filling up. 16 people were in ICU in Ireland yesterday with corona related stuff. No idea of age breakdown. But still, 16. Out of a population of 4+ million. Filling up.


  • #540
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    As we've discussed, what's true today might not be true tomorrow,
    Yet weirdly you are chiding the government for reacting to things based on the evidence they had at the time.

    ranto_boy wrote: »
    But I'll give you that one's a prediction, the other is a fact.
    No, neither is true.
    What's the prediction based on?
    What is the "fact" based on?
    Please provide sources for both.
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Covid is nowhere near the beast we thought it was, and the media/government portrays. If you're not old or desperately sick with a serious illness, you'll be fine.
    Unless you're not.

    Also it's funny how you say that, yet you seem to be ignoring the long term effects of the virus.
    What if those young fit healthy people who are infected, but don't die, are left with serious long term side effects?
    How can you rule that out already?

    We are being warned that the vaccine can't be trusted because a few years of research is too short a time to know it's potential dangers.
    But now we're being told that the virus isn't something to worry about with less than 10 months of research...
    Weird that.


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  • #541
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    I really don't think that's in doubt. Look at the numbers, compare it to deaths from other causes. The regular Winter flu deaths will be categorised as covid and for the first time ever, will be front page news. Each and every day!



    Funny how supposed of-libertarian-cloth Boris is now leading the most authoritarian government in Britain in a while. It's probably the most left wing too since Atlee. The State is gaining huge inroads in industry (nationalised the trains, just like that), into the lives of ordinary people and is now deploying troops on the street.

    All to fight a virus with a >0.5% fatality.

    Funny that :) I want to discuss this, but yourself and the other lad seem really scared to. Focusing on Bible stuff for some reason. Again, funny that.

    And in the coming days there's going to be a vote to extend the Coronavirus Act by a further two years. They very cleverly named it the Coronavirus Act so that if another coronavirus rears its ugly head they can use that Act to do what they please. Johnson is basically ruling by decree.


  • #542
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    We are being warned that the vaccine can't be trusted because a few years of research is too short a time to know it's potential dangers.
    But now we're being told that the virus isn't something to worry about with less than 10 months of research...
    Weird that.

    Corona's out there in the wild, I'll do my best to avoid it but even so as a non-overweight, guy in his 30s who workouts a fair bit and no asthma or anything, I'm more likely to die from a car accident than I am from corona.

    I do look forward to seeing what the long term effects are. The two people I know who had it (both on the frontlines, one of whom spent his two week isolation with a serious amount of cans and PS4 :) and the other who had a slight temp for a few days) are fine.

    But yeah, I'll still keep clear just in case. Like a rushed vaccine, keep clear of that sht.

    Will you be lining up to be one of the first for a vaccine? Good luck.


  • #543
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Corona's out there in the wild, I'll do my best to avoid it but even so as a non-overweight, guy in his 30s who workouts a fair bit and no asthma or anything, I'm more likely to die from a car accident than I am from corona.

    I do look forward to seeing what the long term effects are. The two people I know who had it (both on the frontlines, one of whom spent his two week isolation with a serious amount of cans and PS4 :) and the other who had a slight temp for a few days) are fine.

    But yeah, I'll still keep clear just in case. Like a rushed vaccine, keep clear of that sht.

    Will you be lining up to be one of the first for a vaccine? Good luck.
    Hi, sorry. You've dodged a few points I've made there.

    Are you going back to address them or are you just going to ignore them entirely?

    If so, why are you doing that?


  • #544
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    Hi, sorry. You've dodged a few points I've made there.

    Are you going back to address them or are you just going to ignore them entirely?

    If so, why are you doing that?

    My prediciton is based on corona hysteria. You die of cancer and have corona, hello you're a corona death. Why on Earth would it be different for the regular and totally expected flu deaths coming up?

    There were 50,000 excess deaths two years in the UK

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

    This year, they'll become corona deaths. You'd have to be very naive to think otherwise.

    I'll take it from your hesitation that you will be having the vaccine asap. Wow.


  • #545
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    My prediciton is based on corona hysteria. You die of cancer and have corona, hello you're a corona death. Why on Earth would it be different for the regular and totally expected flu deaths coming up?
    But that's not true though...
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    There were 50,000 excess deaths two years in the UK

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

    This year, they'll become corona deaths. You'd have to be very naive to think otherwise.
    Neither is this...

    You said the virus had a ">0.5% fatality."

    Source for this please?
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    I'll take it from your hesitation that you will be having the vaccine asap. Wow.
    What hesitation are you talking about? :confused:


  • #546
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    But that's not true though...


    Neither is this...

    You said the virus had a ">0.5% fatality."

    Source for this please?


    What hesitation are you talking about? :confused:

    Hesitation to answer. Will you be getting the vaccine when it first comes out, or not? It's a pretty simple question.

    And obviously we can't say for certain what the exact fatality rate is, I reckon it's about that. Let's look at some numbers if you're so excited to

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

    For me, that's looking like a 0.2% chance. Probably lower given my health and personal setup. And it's obviously not including everyone who had corona as of course not everyone gets tested.

    So I should take a rushed vaccine for this? Lol.


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  • #547
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Hesitation to answer. Will you be getting the vaccine when it first comes out, or not? It's a pretty simple question.
    It's funny how you guys get pretty demandy when you want a question answered, but have no issue ignoring them when it suits.

    But yes, when the vaccine is available where I live, I will most likely get it.
    I've not seen a reason why I should not.
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    And obviously we can't say for certain what the exact fatality rate is, I reckon it's about that.
    But you said that it was ">0.5% fatality."

    What's this based on?
    Gonna take a wild stab and assume you're not a doctor or a virologist and you aren't trained in a field like statistics...
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Let's look at some numbers if you're so excited to

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

    For me, that's looking like a 0.2% chance.
    But you see, you're misrepresenting the figures here.
    The death rate for the virus is not "0.2%"
    Nor is it ">0.5%" like you claimed previously.

    In fact the same site you are quote says:
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/
    Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) = Deaths / Cases = 23,430 / 1,694,781 = 1.4% (1.4% of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 have a fatal outcome, while 98.6% recover).

    But this is of course based on old, limited data in a specific circumstance.

    You are also still ignoring the point I made earlier.
    You claimed that anyone not old and infirm would be fine.
    You completely discount any possible side effects for all such people based on a 2 examples you claim to know.
    The virus has been studied for less than a year.

    It is very strange to then also say that thousands of trained medical professionals working day in and day out for months or perhaps years, undergoing many clinical trials involving hundreds of examples and all under strict regulation can't know the side effects of the vaccine they are developing.

    Do you not see the contradiction here?


  • #548
    ranto_boy
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ranto_boy


    King Mob wrote: »
    It's funny how you guys get pretty demandy when you want a question answered, but have no issue ignoring them when it suits.

    That's rich coming from you!
    It is very strange to then also say that thousands of trained medical professionals working day in and day out for months or perhaps years, undergoing many clinical trials involving hundreds of examples and all under strict regulation can't know the side effects of the vaccine they are developing.

    Do you not see the contradiction here?

    Why are you limiting the scope here? It's not gonna be just up to scientists. There's economic realities and of course competition.

    It's like with masks. Back in March, the WHO and all scientific experts of note and national health bodies across the West were in agreement that masks were ineffective... but as the Summer went on, the realisation that 2m + just wasn't viable and they needed to start cramming people back into shops, well then the advice and expertise changed :) suddenly masks were essential and you are a monster for not wearing one.

    But if you're so convinced, then you can take a flight to Russia and take their vaccine. Report back to us


  • #549
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    ranto_boy wrote: »
    That's rich coming from you!
    Why?
    I answered you question directly and clearly.
    :confused:

    Meanwhile, there's a whole section there where I pointed out you weren't being accurate with the figures from your own source.
    That was ignored entirely.
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    Why are you limiting the scope here? It's not gonna be just up to scientists.
    You're avoiding the point.

    You reached the conclusion that the virus was nothing to worried about based on your personal, untrained observation of 2 cases in a matter of months.
    Is this not rushed to you?

    If that's not rushed, and it's a valid conclusion to make, then why would the same not be true of a vaccine?
    ranto_boy wrote: »
    But if you're so convinced, then you can take a flight to Russia and take their vaccine. Report back to us
    What?
    :confused:


  • #550
    FutureTeashock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 439 ✭✭FutureTeashock


    After much careful thought and deliberation, I have decided it is my duty as a citizen to protect the vulnerable and wider society, so I'll be taking my vaccine when it's my dutiful turn.

    Just kidding!:o There is no way in hell I'll be letting that unlicensed, rushed, experimental rubbish anywhere near me!


  • #551
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,013 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    FutureTeashock wrote: »
    After much careful thought and deliberation, I have decided it is my duty as a citizen to protect the vulnerable and wider society, so I'll be taking my vaccine when it's my dutiful turn.

    Just kidding!:o There is no way in hell I'll be letting that unlicensed, rushed, experimental rubbish anywhere near me!

    Wow you really shook the sheeple with that one, well done. Go on you! Take it to the man!


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