Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Totally agree with you on "the new normal"!

No, it's not normal, it's a horrible, temporary situation we have to cope with, and suggesting it's going to be "normal" is incredibly depressing!

It really is, and in my view it's also extremely dangerous - it's both horrifically crippling to many young peoples' mental health (this I've seen in person over the last few weeks) and it's also one of the factors driving the "sure f*ck it then, let's party and die young, it's better than living long and lonely" attitude which gives rise to the kinds of non-complying street parties everyone is complaining about at the moment.

This would all be a lot easier if there was any kind of target or end game to be working towards, but the idea that after we reach Phase 4 and everything is reopened to "the new normal", we remain indefinitely in a miserable, socially distant quagmire, is leading many people to stop giving a f*ck and take far more risks than they otherwise would if they knew there was a target in mind.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its was also completely demoralising to look around Europe and see places opening up while here it seems as if there's outrage at absolutely everything, people need to learn to live alongside this and get used to seeing crowds return, 500 outdoors in 2 weeks time.

How long do people put their lives on hold?? If some had their way it would be indefinitely. Time to live life, nobody is forcing anyone to go into any bars or restaurants.

This is a good read https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/a-summer-of-public-shaming-39341005.html

Its going to be a summer lockdown in Europe. Another one announced today

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Those stories are coming out of the woodwork all week to keep they hysteria ramped up.

Influenza can have the exact same effects on those young and healthy.

What Covid has thought me is thay certain people love misery and attention to spread it.

The whole "now look didnt I tell ya".

...but those posting misery about the upcoming recession/job losses/economic disaster are justified? Self awareness required.

Assetbacked wrote: »

That lad doesn't look that healthy, look at his face. Nice effort at fear mongering though peddling this nonsense.

He looks perfectly healthy to me...? I'm not trying to fear monger. Sorry if my post scared you. I'm pointing out that it doesn't just affect old people as many in this thread try to portray. It's not nonsense.

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dont-treat-all-holidaymakers-as-troublemakers-39341061.html

Interesting article from Ciara Kelly who acknowledges the families who’ve put thousands into their sun holiday and are now being told not to go, but no refund thanks to government indecisiveness. She also acknowledges that going to a beach in a safe holiday destination in Europe cannot be any more dangerous than spending your holidays going around pubs and crowded areas in Ireland...

“ I feel sorry for people. A few short months ago, booking a family holiday was one of the most normal things in the world. You could not attend a hairdresser without being asked about it. Now the hairdressers are back open for business - but it's unlikely that anyone who might be going on a sun holiday would dream of mentioning it in the chitchat while their elongated roots are changed back to blonde.

Now, to go on holidays abroad is akin to going on public transport without a mask or being on a beach at the same time as lots of other people. It leaves you liable to someone photographing you and rushing to social media to highlight what a terrible person you are - a socially irresponsible idiot who deserves to be shamed for your actions, while the poster basks in 'likes' and positive affirmation that they are a much better person than you.

But is it as black and white as travel abroad = bad, staycation = good? No, I'm not sure that it is.

Firstly, if you stay home and spend your holliers here and go to pubs or house parties where social distancing is poor, well then you cannot feel too smug about someone who goes abroad and spends most of their time outdoors on a beach.

Secondly, it absolutely depends on where you go. If you were foolish enough to head to Florida for a break that would be incredibly irresponsible - the US has levels of Covid-19 that are spiralling out of control. However, if you went to Greece, where case numbers are tiny, that would be a completely different matter.

Lastly, people travel for all sorts of reasons. Some to see family members they've been kept apart from for months on end - some of them elderly or ill. Others need to travel for essential work purposes. Some will be travelling for leisure, but within that group there are many who have just come through extraordinary times. I spoke to one doctor recently who told me he was at the end of the road, having worked flat out at some personal risk to himself and his family; he wanted nothing more than to head for a week to the holiday home he has in France and put his feet up and enjoy some wine and sunshine. But now he feels he can't because it would be so frowned upon - even though he doesn't believe the kind of holiday he would be having would increase his, or anyone else's, risk of contracting Covid-19.

Dr Tony Holohan, who deserves much praise for his handling of the pandemic (Ireland has the lowest incidence in western Europe and if anything it's thought we over-estimated the Covid-19 deaths here) - steering us through it at a time when his wife is critically ill - has said cancel your holiday plans if you're booked to go abroad. But as someone who used to be a doctor, I know that people don't listen to medical advice as often as we might like.
People are being given mixed messages. Ads for cheap flights and sun holidays are everywhere. Quarantine isn't mandatory; in the opinion of our Tanaiste Leo Varadkar, mandatory quarantine isn't workable here - and even the doctors aren't all in agreement. Dr Jack Lambert, specialist in infectious diseases, says if you travel to an area with similar risk to here and practise social distancing, then that trip is unlikely to be an issue Covid-19 wise.

The real reason why I feel sorry for people, however, is they are now caught between public health advice to stay home and the aviation industry, who are now running flights. So if someone booked flights before all of this and those flights now take off, they will simply lose all of their money if they aren't on board.

It's all very well asking people to put on the green jersey - but they've already done a huge amount. If you've just lost your job and had a miserable lockdown and now you're also expected to forgo the sun holiday you paid for in all innocence a few months ago, in favour of a staycation that you can't afford because you spent your cash on a trip to the Algarve, I think that is very hard.

The voice that is absent in all of this is the Government. The ordinary consumer who has booked to go away is now caught between the doctors and a hard place. But it is not Nphet or Aer Lingus who are to blame. Nphet is trying to protect us and the tourism sector is trying to survive. Government can decide what the airlines do. If they don't want people to head off to the Costas, they can stop that happening. Or, if they feel there are safe places for people to fly to without being corona-shamed, they can sort that too. Instead, what we have is a total absence of clarity about what happens when the current set of international travel restrictions run out.

Neither Nphet nor the aviation industry are supposed to be running the country - our elected representatives are supposed to be doing that. Currently people are being asked to shoulder massive personal cost in order to do the right thing, while the holiday flights take off in direct contradiction of public health advice.

Ordinary people who booked holidays are the meat in that sandwich - which is being eaten - while they watch thousands gather at funerals, people thronging beaches and house parties, and pubs around the country flouting guidelines. At the start of this pandemic, when the Government wanted to influence people's behaviour and get them to stay home, they paid €350 a week to those who couldn't work.

Now it appears people are supposed to walk away from their hard-saved holiday money without a backward glance. If flights were cancelled, at least they'd get a refund. The Government needs to step in here and get on with it now - decide what people can and can't do. These people are holidaymakers not troublemakers. And they're being thrown under an Aircoach.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This would all be a lot easier if there was any kind of target or end game to be working towards, but the idea that after we reach Phase 4 and everything is reopened to "the new normal", we remain indefinitely in a miserable, socially distant quagmire, is leading many people to stop giving a f*ck and take far more risks than they otherwise would if they knew there was a target in mind.

There is a target - a vaccine or a good treatment, both of which are being worked on.

Do people on this thread have any sense of self restraint at all? We'll get most businesses re-opened, and all that's being asked of you is to avoid taking unnecessary risks while those vaccines and treatments are being worked on. Instead it's house parties, jetting back and forth across the world and a complete meltdown because you might have to order a pint while sitting at a table.

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dont-treat-all-holidaymakers-as-troublemakers-39341061.html

Interesting article from Ciara Kelly...

She also acknowledges that going to a beach in a safe holiday destination in Europe cannot be any more dangerous than spending your holidays going around pubs and crowded areas in Ireland...


Dr Tony Holohan, who deserves much praise for his handling of the pandemic (Ireland has the lowest incidence in western Europe and if anything it's thought we over-estimated the Covid-19 deaths here) - steering us through it at a time when his wife is critically ill - has said cancel your holiday plans if you're booked to go abroad. But as someone who used to be a doctor, I know that people don't listen to medical advice as often as we might like.

There's a lot to parse in that, but remember Ciara Kelly is a wannabe shock jock. She was adamant earlier this year that the Leaving Cert should be cancelled, and spent the last couple of days berating teachers for wanting nothing more than clarity, and the same sort of protections Kelly would get in the Newstalk building.

What she seems to be claiming (not acknowledging, because she doesn't know!) is that a beach holiday in, say, Greece is safe because of low numbers of infections in Greece. They have low numbers up to now, yes, because they self-isolated and tourist destinations were completely closed - but if the next gang over on the beach or taverna are from Romford or Leicester in 2 weeks time, then you're not mixing with a low-infection safe crowd.

Then she seems to be saying don't follow the best advice available because other people won't?

Isn't this also the former doctor who was telling everyone she was immune now because she's had covid?

TaurenDruid wrote: »

There's a lot to parse in that, but remember Ciara Kelly is a wannabe shock jock. She was adamant earlier this year that the Leaving Cert should be cancelled, and spent the last couple of days berating teachers for wanting nothing more than clarity, and the same sort of protections Kelly would get in the Newstalk building.

What she seems to be claiming (not acknowledging, because she doesn't know!) is that a beach holiday in, say, Greece is safe because of low numbers of infections in Greece. They have low numbers up to now, yes, because they self-isolated and tourist destinations were completely closed - but if the next gang over on the beach or taverna are from Romford or Leicester in 2 weeks time, then you're not mixing with a low-infection safe crowd.

Then she seems to be saying don't follow the best advice available because other people won't?

Isn't this also the former doctor who was telling everyone she was immune now because she's had covid?

U.K are barred from Greece for at least another two weeks, and Leisester is on a form of lockdown so they won't be going anywhere.
I agree re Ciara Kelly and the Leaving Cert, she campaigned to have it cancelled and as soon as it was, turned around to campaign to reopen schools, made no sense.
But I agree with her on the points she's making here, the lack of clarity from Government has left the regular punter in no man's land.

CruelSummer wrote: »

I agree re the new Government...they're more concerned with in-fighting at the moment than actually Governing Ireland through a Pandemic.
The biggest difference I see between say bar/ restaurants abroad and here is their capacity to seat people outdoors beside the sea which is good ventilation.

Agreed on all counts.

Onesea wrote: »

Spain finding the virus present in sewege as far back as March 1019.

Jesus. They went WAY back!

People having fun, oh no :rolleyes:

Most of us don't even know someone that got this virus let alone died from it. There will be no going back, we just gotta get on with it and live with it.

Pissing your knickers over young people out partying after been locked up for 4 months is incredibly sad. You do know this won't be every week? It will calm down again, people just need to vent.

Seems more likely that the sample got contaminated when they were handling it in the lab. Especially as it was only one sample out of months of samples.

average_runner wrote: »

Work on our primary school started already. These are special times so normal rules don't apply. Can't wait till August in case spike comes then, need to do the work now.

Confirmations in August

What do confirmations have to do with school?
That's the parish

beggars_bush wrote: »

What do confirmations have to do with school?
That's the parish

The school is involved in it.