Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

Murph_D · 05-11-2019 10:19pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

When does the refund kick in?

First two weeks of June.

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

rovers_runner · 07-11-2019 2:21pm

Any word on how many entries were taken up to last night?
Priority entry is gone now so I'm sure they could set aside club and GFA allocations and confirm the ballot figures.

TaurenDruid · 07-11-2019 11:42pm

robinph wrote: »

Would need to have a few beer tents and such like setup near the finish to get the crowds of supporters out from the centre to watch and free Luas into the centre to get the runners into the bars there for more refreshments. In the park would be good for capacity and the route, but bad for the finish line support and takings at the city centre bars.

How do you have the LUAS running and the marathon running at the same time?

Really disappointed with the cynicism from the DCM organisers on this. I could understand if it sold out within a day or a couple of hours like Electric Picnic, but it was weeks before they sold out this year. So it's a marketing ploy to generate demand and hype.

And no provision at all made for volunteers from 2019 or earlier who wanted to run in 2020 - that really sucks.

robinph · 08-11-2019 8:22am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

How do you have the LUAS running and the marathon running at the same time?

Just send the runners along that bit of the course early on in the route and you only have to shut it down for a couple of hours. By the time the finishers come into the park from the other direction it's all up and running again.

rooneyjm · 09-11-2019 3:55am

Are the “Good for age” standards only for Athletics Ireland members or can anyone with a qualifying time apply?

robinph · 09-11-2019 6:13am

rooneyjm wrote: »

Are the “Good for age” standards only for Athletics Ireland members or can anyone with a qualifying time apply?

Under the version of the rules they currently have it's for AI members only, and you need to have been a paid up member before the end of the December 2019.

66_Lad · 09-11-2019 10:55am

I received confirmation from Dublin Marathon organisers yesterday that all AAI members who have a GFA time in past 3 yrs and apply in the April window will receive a place. If more people apply than current allocated places to AAI, they will take places from the refunds and reallocate them to AAI. However they believe sufficient places are allocated currently that this will not be required. Not sure when the 3 yr window opens, but believe it will be flexible and they expect AAI members with times outside the GFA's to apply also.
Also they are planning on pushing out the refund date from start of June to later...didnt get details on the extension length but I imagine a month at least. They wanted to verify that the process would work last yr and there was an appeal for it, and will refine it this year.
Overall I got the feeling that DCM are trying to ensure as many AAI members as possible are able to enter DCM 2020 for the national championships

adrian522 · 09-11-2019 12:09pm

robinph wrote: »

Under the version of the rules they currently have it's for AI members only, and you need to have been a paid up member before the end of the December 2019.

You need to be registered for 2020 by January 3rd according to the current rules. Not sure how this is going to work as clubs need to register athletes once they pay their fees but have until Jan 3rd to register them with AAI.

Cartman78 · 10-11-2019 12:14am

I'm not sure how much faith (if any) you can place in a Facebook poll...but I saw one earlier from Running In Ireland asking people that received entry codes if they had entered or not.

There was about 800 votes when I looked and the results were roughly 55% had entered for 2020

Slow_Runner · 10-11-2019 8:31am

Talking to a guy at my local parkrun yesterday and he entered again for 2020 but is still undecided, he'll make his decision in April before the refunds kick in and is looking at it as a cost of €20 to keep a place if he needs it (cost - 70% refund).
I think a lot of people will do this which will skew any previous data of people running in consecutive years. Someone still on the fence will sign up knowing they have a guaranteed entry and can back out. This will leave very few places left for the lottery but a lot more places will open up after the refund window, cue a lot of angry people in January!!

PhilOssophy · 10-11-2019 9:48am

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Talking to a guy at my local parkrun yesterday and he entered again for 2020 but is still undecided, he'll make his decision in April before the refunds kick in and is looking at it as a cost of €20 to keep a place if he needs it (cost - 70% refund).
I think a lot of people will do this which will skew any previous data of people running in consecutive years. Someone still on the fence will sign up knowing they have a guaranteed entry and can back out. This will leave very few places left for the lottery but a lot more places will open up after the refund window, cue a lot of angry people in January!!

Angry in January, angry in August, basically just our modern world of outrage. There was people angry last year and they had a month to sign up before the outrage.

Slow_Runner · 10-11-2019 9:53am

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Angry in January, angry in August, basically just our modern world of outrage. There was people angry last year and they had a month to sign up before the outrage.

Very true, question is have Dublin Marathon taken this into account? Probably not.

Trampas · 10-11-2019 10:00am

Refunds should be available until end of August. People should be able to sign up on a waiting list from whenever and as a person gives back their number the next one off the list gets 48 hours to accept or goes to next person. If you’re a regular runner you should be able to train for a marathon in 2 months if you’ve a decent base.

PhilOssophy · 10-11-2019 10:22am

Honestly, I think refunds should be available up to a month beforehand. The month before is when lots of injuries occur.
Plenty of people would train in the hope that they get in.
I know I would anyway, and sure once you accepted that you might not get a place, what harm?

robinph · 10-11-2019 8:43pm

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Talking to a guy at my local parkrun yesterday and he entered again for 2020 but is still undecided, he'll make his decision in April before the refunds kick in and is looking at it as a cost of €20 to keep a place if he needs it (cost - 70% refund).
I think a lot of people will do this which will skew any previous data of people running in consecutive years. Someone still on the fence will sign up knowing they have a guaranteed entry and can back out. This will leave very few places left for the lottery but a lot more places will open up after the refund window, cue a lot of angry people in January!!

From the survey of 2 codes that I got emailed for two previous entries, of which only one was used in the previous year, I only stumped up the cash for one of the 2020 entries. It would still be 50/50 for if I would even use that one entry I expect until the week before the marathon next year. I'd be unlikely to cancel it though even if I thought plans weren't likely to be falling into place to actually make it to the start line.

It's just one of the many costs of being a runner, and a relatively minor one.

solidasarock · 11-11-2019 2:40am

By all means I think a reasonable refund / deferral window is needed.

But any such policy should probably give them enough time to actually get that pace out there to someone else. 1 month is silly.

And from a payment point of view refunding someone who paid you 9 months ago would be a colossal pain.

Would be nice in a perfect world but I cant think of any race or live event that would be that accommodating for last minute pullouts.

mathie · 11-11-2019 10:53am

Would it be outside the realms of IT to put a system in place where people who didn't get into the sold-out marathon could join a queue (and pay full price). Then anyone who has an entry could get a full refund at any point even up until just before race number collection. The first in the "hopefulls" queue then gets that entry.

If the people hoping to get a cancellation don't get one then they get a full refund.

robinph · 11-11-2019 11:09am

mathie wrote: »

Would it be outside the realms of IT to put a system in place where people who didn't get into the sold-out marathon could join a queue (and pay full price). Then anyone who has an entry could get a full refund at any point even up until just before race number collection. The first in the "hopefulls" queue then gets that entry.

If the people hoping to get a cancellation don't get one then they get a full refund.

Nothing too complicated in setting up a system to do that.

The totally impossible thing to administer though is the punters who then start mouthing off on social media that they stubbed their toe the evening before the marathon and their dog chewed their mobile phone so they had to borrow someone else phone which had the wrong colour case so didn't look cool enough and they obviously couldn't use that in public so had to wait until 1 minute past the deadline to apply for a place in the refund queue and so they lost out on getting their money back which they needed to pay for looking after their sick hamster and how the marathon organisers just don't have a heart and won't somebody think of the children.

So no, it really shouldn't ever happen as it's not worth the bother.

TaurenDruid · 11-11-2019 2:06pm

robinph wrote: »

Nothing too complicated in setting up a system to do that.

The totally impossible thing to administer though is the punters who then start mouthing off on social media that they stubbed their toe the evening before the marathon and their dog chewed their mobile phone so they had to borrow someone else phone which had the wrong colour case so didn't look cool enough and they obviously couldn't use that in public so had to wait until 1 minute past the deadline to apply for a place in the refund queue and so they lost out on getting their money back which they needed to pay for looking after their sick hamster and how the marathon organisers just don't have a heart and won't somebody think of the children.

So no, it really shouldn't ever happen as it's not worth the bother.

As a matter of interest, Robin, what notice was given for the refund/sell-back window this year? I've checked my mails and although obviously there was some notice somewhere - possibly in the Ts & Cs when I signed up, I honestly don't think a reminder email issued at all.

solidasarock · 11-11-2019 2:45pm

Out of curiosity how to London Marathon Deferrals work?

If I decide to pull out of 2020 and go for 2021 instead and defer my spot do I have to pay again or do I only pay for 1 place?

Cartman78 · 11-11-2019 3:14pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Angry in January, angry in August, basically just our modern world of outrage. There was people angry last year and they had a month to sign up before the outrage.

^This.

I basically only use Facebook to keep track of races, club events etc. and the amount of people ranting into the void is unreal.

And at the core of every rant is "it's cheaper to go to Amsterdam/Berlin etc".

Sure, if you want to stay in a 4* Hotel on the finish line in Dublin for 2 nights of a Bank Holiday weekend it's going to be pricey but that isn't the only option

robinph · 11-11-2019 3:18pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

As a matter of interest, Robin, what notice was given for the refund/sell-back window this year? I've checked my mails and although obviously there was some notice somewhere - possibly in the Ts & Cs when I signed up, I honestly don't think a reminder email issued at all.

Not sure about this year, was 2017 where family robinph had multiple entries but only used one.

solidasarock wrote: »

Out of curiosity how to London Marathon Deferrals work?

If I decide to pull out of 2020 and go for 2021 instead and defer my spot do I have to pay again or do I only pay for 1 place?

Yes, you have to pay the entry fee again, no refunds, can only defer a place once, if it's a GFA place then you need to still have a valid GFA time for the 2021 race but are exempt from being caught out by any over subscription that causes a reduction in the entry time.

eg Needed a sub 3 for applying for GFA for 2020, the number of places allocated meant that a 2:58:xx was actually required but you get in with a 2:57.
Defer your place but your 2:57 time is now too old to count, you do have a 2:59:59 though which does count. The 2021 GFA cut off ends up being 2:58:xx again for 2021, but you would still get in with your deferred place and time of 2:59:59.

Cabaal · 11-11-2019 3:37pm

Cartman78 wrote: »

^This.

I basically only use Facebook to keep track of races, club events etc. and the amount of people ranting into the void is unreal.

And at the core of every rant is "it's cheaper to go to Amsterdam/Berlin etc".

Sure, if you want to stay in a 4* Hotel on the finish line in Dublin for 2 nights of a Bank Holiday weekend it's going to be pricey but that isn't the only option

I always laugh at this suggestion,
I drive up to Dublin on race day, do the race and drive back.
So it costs me about 20e diesel, 0 for parking and the entry fee for DCM....I might get a subway before I head home.
No international marathon can beat that price.

It actually costs me more if I do the Connemara Marathon in April as I stay in a B&B the night before it :pac:

Overall I'm finding much of the comments on facebook etc amusing, you'd swear DCM is the only marathon in the country yet there's one almost every weekend.

TFBubendorfer · 11-11-2019 5:01pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Overall I'm finding much of the comments on facebook etc amusing, you'd swear DCM is the only marathon in the country yet there's one almost every weekend.

That, and the quite common suggestion that the DCM organisers are completely inept and don't know what they're doing. :rolleyes:

PhilOssophy · 11-11-2019 5:34pm

Slow_Runner wrote: »

Very true, question is have Dublin Marathon taken this into account? Probably not.

Why should they bother, people who want to b1tch and moan will find a time/place/platform.

I could understand people being disappointed at not securing a place, but people had a MONTH to sign up. A frigging month. This is not Glastonbury tickets or whatever, they had a month to decide.

Higgins5473 · 11-11-2019 8:40pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Why should they bother, people who want to b1tch and moan will find a time/place/platform.

I could understand people being disappointed at not securing a place, but people had a MONTH to sign up. A frigging month. This is not Glastonbury tickets or whatever, they had a month to decide.

The getting irate at people being irate from you is getting a bit repetitive and also a bit hypocritical.

bmc58 · 11-11-2019 8:44pm

tunney wrote: »

Wonder will it affect popularity - having to wait until January to know if you can get in or not...

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

Athletics is under a huge cloud of suspicion just like cycling.I have lost interest in both,sadly.

robinph · 11-11-2019 9:26pm

bmc58 wrote: »

Athletics is under a huge cloud of suspicion just like cycling.I have lost interest in both,sadly.

Not sure what any issues with cheating in elite sports has to do with mass participation amateur sporting events popularity?

event · 11-11-2019 10:15pm

mathie wrote: »

Would it be outside the realms of IT to put a system in place where people who didn't get into the sold-out marathon could join a queue (and pay full price). Then anyone who has an entry could get a full refund at any point even up until just before race number collection. The first in the "hopefulls" queue then gets that entry.

If the people hoping to get a cancellation don't get one then they get a full refund.

Sorry I'm not sure if I have you.
Someone on the hopeful queue, they could find out say 4 days before DCM that they have a place?
Should they have been training anyway just in case? Do you think people will train for a marathon on the off chance that they will get an entry?

TaurenDruid · 11-11-2019 10:21pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That, and the quite common suggestion that the DCM organisers are completely inept and don't know what they're doing. :rolleyes:

So, my Dublin marathon experience thus far.

2017: volunteered. Great experience. I wish I could do that sort of distance!
2018: volunteered. Great experience. I'm up to half-marathon distance. Y'know, I really should...
2019: volunteered, Great experience. Dammit, I'm signing up!
2020: oh - the organisers have announced it was all going to be lottery (except for elites and GFA club entries). But at least they'll have made some provision for volunt-- oh. No. Nothing for volunteers. We get to enter the lottery too.

Wait, there's a backlash from people who've run before... Look, the organisers are making an announcement about past runners getting entries? At least now they can accommodate volunteers... ah. No. Nothing again!

So yeah, given the above, the fact it isn't Glastonbury and tickets didn't sell out for something like 40 days last year, and the really short return window meaning only 17500 out of 22500 started... then yeah, I can at least understand why people are genuinely pissed off with the organisers.

If the lottery thing is because they want to grow to 25000 or 27500 and need to alter the course - fine, come out and say that. Don't try to generate "sold out" hype when there's no need. It leaves a poor taste in the mouth.

Cabaal · 12-11-2019 9:45am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

2020: oh - the organisers have announced it was all going to be lottery (except for elites and GFA club entries). But at least they'll have made some provision for volunt-- oh. No. Nothing for volunteers. We get to enter the lottery too.

I do get it that its frustrating for you but they can't cover every single eventuality, if they were to give priority to DCM volunteers then what about the rest of the race series volunteers for example?

Again there are plenty of other marathons, if it was the only marathon then I could understand people's frustration more.

PhilOssophy · 12-11-2019 9:53am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

So, my Dublin marathon experience thus far.

2017: volunteered. Great experience. I wish I could do that sort of distance!
2018: volunteered. Great experience. I'm up to half-marathon distance. Y'know, I really should...
2019: volunteered, Great experience. Dammit, I'm signing up!
2020: oh - the organisers have announced it was all going to be lottery (except for elites and GFA club entries). But at least they'll have made some provision for volunt-- oh. No. Nothing for volunteers. We get to enter the lottery too.

Wait, there's a backlash from people who've run before... Look, the organisers are making an announcement about past runners getting entries? At least now they can accommodate volunteers... ah. No. Nothing again!

So yeah, given the above, the fact it isn't Glastonbury and tickets didn't sell out for something like 40 days last year, and the really short return window meaning only 17500 out of 22500 started... then yeah, I can at least understand why people are genuinely pissed off with the organisers.

If the lottery thing is because they want to grow to 25000 or 27500 and need to alter the course - fine, come out and say that. Don't try to generate "sold out" hype when there's no need. It leaves a poor taste in the mouth.

And the organisers, with the exception of 1 person, are "volunteers" too? Does that not matter?

PhilOssophy · 12-11-2019 9:58am

Higgins5473 wrote: »

The getting irate at people being irate from you is getting a bit repetitive and also a bit hypocritical.

Oh no, are you outraged? Straight onto social media with you, loads of likes and whingers to be found.

average_runner · 12-11-2019 10:34am

TaurenDruid wrote: »

So, my Dublin marathon experience thus far.

2017: volunteered. Great experience. I wish I could do that sort of distance!
2018: volunteered. Great experience. I'm up to half-marathon distance. Y'know, I really should...
2019: volunteered, Great experience. Dammit, I'm signing up!
2020: oh - the organisers have announced it was all going to be lottery (except for elites and GFA club entries). But at least they'll have made some provision for volunt-- oh. No. Nothing for volunteers. We get to enter the lottery too.

Wait, there's a backlash from people who've run before... Look, the organisers are making an announcement about past runners getting entries? At least now they can accommodate volunteers... ah. No. Nothing again!

So yeah, given the above, the fact it isn't Glastonbury and tickets didn't sell out for something like 40 days last year, and the really short return window meaning only 17500 out of 22500 started... then yeah, I can at least understand why people are genuinely pissed off with the organisers.

If the lottery thing is because they want to grow to 25000 or 27500 and need to alter the course - fine, come out and say that. Don't try to generate "sold out" hype when there's no need. It leaves a poor taste in the mouth.

Well you now know the simple answer, don't volunteer next year unless they give you a spot.

This could back fire on DCM, as they might not get as many volunteers from now on

mathie · 12-11-2019 10:44am

event wrote: »

Sorry I'm not sure if I have you.
Someone on the hopeful queue, they could find out say 4 days before DCM that they have a place?

Yes

event wrote: »

Should they have been training anyway just in case?

Yes

event wrote: »

Do you think people will train for a marathon on the off chance that they will get an entry?

Yes.

They could show you all the statistics.
Like your place in the queue, how many slots have come available per day over the last year, your % chance of actually getting in.

It wouldn't be a flawless system but it would lead to a lot less unused entries.

Cabaal · 12-11-2019 12:13pm

average_runner wrote: »

Well you now know the simple answer, don't volunteer next year unless they give you a spot.

This could back fire on DCM, as they might not get as many volunteers from now on

Or
People will continue to volunteer out of the goodness of their hearts because they don't expect stuff in return other then the free swag (t-shirts/jackets) and knowing they are part of something that encourages people to get out and run.

You know, for the love of the sport

Sometimes people just volunteer with stuff to make a difference, to ensure their town, city or village have events which otherwise might not happen.

PhilOssophy · 12-11-2019 3:09pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Or
People will continue to volunteer out of the goodness of their hearts because they don't expect stuff in return other then the free swag (t-shirts/jackets) and knowing they are part of something that encourages people to get out and run.

You know, for the love of the sport

Sometimes people just volunteer with stuff to make a difference, to ensure their town, city or village have events which otherwise might not happen.

Spot on. Volunteer - "a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task".

If people thought the DCM was struggling for volunteers, I bet they would think nothing of becoming one.

event · 12-11-2019 4:00pm

mathie wrote: »

Yes
Yes

Yes.

They could show you all the statistics.
Like your place in the queue, how many slots have come available per day over the last year, your % chance of actually getting in.

It wouldn't be a flawless system but it would lead to a lot less unused entries.

I would argue opposite. There is no way I would train for a marathon when I don't have an entry. I'm not sure if many others would either tbh.

PhilOssophy · 12-11-2019 4:07pm

event wrote: »

I would argue opposite. There is no way I would train for a marathon when I don't have an entry. I'm not sure if many others would either tbh.

It would depend how likely I thought it was that I would get an entry. If I thought there was a good chance I would get an entry from a drop-out, I would. If I thought it was very unlikely, I wouldn't.

robinph · 12-11-2019 4:29pm

I might be constantly training for a marathon and in a position where I could decide to do one on a whim with a couple of weeks notice (mostly in order to have time to sort out transport options). But I wouldn't be leaving an empty space in my marathon calendar without a marathon booked up just on the off chance that one might become available.

It happened that I ran Berlin this year on a weeks notice in order to help someone else out, but I wouldn't have been training for Berlin as my target marathon in the hope that a place would become available, I'd have found another event to run instead if I'd not had a place.

TaurenDruid · 12-11-2019 4:34pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

And the organisers, with the exception of 1 person, are "volunteers" too? Does that not matter?

Well, yeah, you'd think maybe the volunteers would think to look after the volunteers?

EC1000 · 12-11-2019 4:43pm

mathie wrote: »

It wouldn't be a flawless system but it would lead to a lot less unused entries.

A lot less unused entries would solve nothing. The amount of entries sold (and allowed by the race permit) are based on the amount they expect to turn up, not the amount they can sell.

TaurenDruid · 12-11-2019 4:44pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Spot on. Volunteer - "a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task".

If people thought the DCM was struggling for volunteers, I bet they would think nothing of becoming one.

And if I end up not running 2020, for whatever reason, I'll most likely volunteer again anyway. It's not like volunteering is a once a year thing for me, anyway.

And I'm not saying volunteers should get a free entry or anything like it. Just that maybe if the whole 'switching to a lottery' thing had been better thought out and planned in advance, someone could have thought of reserving a certain number of spots for volunteers, too. If not at the time of the original announcement, which talked about GFA runners, then at least after the reaction to the backlash and automatic entry for the last three years' participants was announced.

PhilOssophy · 12-11-2019 4:55pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Well, yeah, you'd think maybe the volunteers would think to look after the volunteers?

Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.

Miklos · 13-11-2019 11:12am

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

People who volunteer at music festivals do get a free ticket for the weekend they're there and are free to avail of the festival when their volunteering is finished so I don't think that's a fair comparison.

PhilOssophy · 13-11-2019 12:42pm

Miklos wrote: »

People who volunteer at music festivals do get a free ticket for the weekend they're there and are free to avail of the festival when their volunteering is finished so I don't think that's a fair comparison.

What about the other activities?

average_runner · 13-11-2019 12:49pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.

Soup run is a charity thing for godsake.

Football Club is local, Dublin marathon is not a small local run so not a fair comparison.

I know all running clubs get money per steward for the marathon.

Not sure if it still happens, but volunteers at races in New York and the New York marathon will get spots in the New York Marathon. So maybe if you volunteer for all of the race series and the marathon, you will get slot in the marathon within 3 years?

average_runner · 13-11-2019 12:50pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

What about the other activities?

They get time off to enjoy some of the festival, which is something for their volunteering.

PhilOssophy · 13-11-2019 12:53pm

average_runner wrote: »

They get time off to enjoy some of the festival, which is something for their volunteering.

I meant the likes of the soup run volunteers, GAA volunteers who didn't get a ticket for any of Dublin's 5-in-a-row. Didn't stop them volunteering again.

PhilOssophy · 13-11-2019 12:55pm

average_runner wrote: »

Soup run is a charity thing for godsake.

Football Club is local, Dublin marathon is not a small local run so not a fair comparison.

I know all running clubs get money per steward for the marathon.

Not sure if it still happens, but volunteers at races in New York and the New York marathon will get spots in the New York Marathon. So maybe if you volunteer for all of the race series and the marathon, you will get slot in the marathon within 3 years?

It is all volunteering.

Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim

Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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