Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

youngrun

ooter wrote: »

has anyone got a link to the GFA times on the official site?

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

At end of this

Seem fairly tough for the men..

Tigerandahalf

So €93 for everyone. It looks like the money side was a factor. So for a lot of people who entered early they will now be paying an extra €20 or so?

For that price they really need to put in place a transfer system to give people a bit of value.

Damo 2k9

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So €93 for everyone. It looks like the money side was a factor. So for a lot of people who entered early they will now be paying an extra €20 or so?

For that price they really need to put in place a transfer system to give people a bit of value.

If they avail of a refund, they lose out on a percentage (cant remember figure), why not charge 15-20 euro for a transfer of a number then? I understand some marathons do it for free, but if its money they are 'worrying' about, then just charge for the facilities to transfer.

chris85

youngrun wrote: »

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

At end of this

Seem fairly tough for the men..

The qualifying standard is tougher than Boston for men.

Tigerandahalf

I can see people manipulating this system.
If they are providing a certain number of entrants for each age category you could enter as a 80 year old and probably be guaranteed an entry.

The Ring of Kerry Cycle has lost a lot of numbers and goodwill because they introduced a lottery system. 5 mates running the Dublin marathon could enter before and know straight away they had their entry. They could have been coming from abroad as a club. Now it is almost guaranteed that one of them wouldn't get an entry and so the 5 might not bother.

I would have thought allowing AAI members to enter first during the opening week and then allow others would be a better system. It would encourage people to take out club membership and all clubs around the country would benefit.

Waiting until Jan/February to find out you are successful will entice people to choose other options given that plans need to be put in place early.

Lots of other options out there anyway.

chasingpaper

skyblue46 wrote: »

People who won medals in masters team events in the Nationals won them with times which didn't meet GFA requirements. I think they were "really running".

As Murph said most will probably get in through the public ballot anyway.

Of course the ones outside the GFA are really running, but they are not running in the same race as the individuals in their age group.
3:23 got a gold medal in M50, and 2:37 was first for the gold medal team. That is a massive difference, first one is 6 miles up the road, he is in a different race!
3:23 would was 94th in M50 category.

M35 medalists all 2:40 or under and senior men all under 2:43, most under 2:20.

I wasn't really aware of team prizes, so I do think each club should be given entries outside the GFA times. Every club should be allowed 3/4 runners to enter a team in each senior and masters grouping. Regardless of the times those runners are capable of.

manwithaplan

Quick question. My wife has a GFA time (from 2018) but is not in a club. If she didn't get an entry in the first lottery, could she join a club and enter the April lottery? Would her GFA time from before her Athletics Ireland/club membership count?

skyblue46

chasingpaper wrote: »

I wasn't really aware of team prizes, so I do think each club should be given entries outside the GFA times. Every club should be allowed 3/4 runners to enter a team in each senior and masters grouping. Regardless of the times those runners are capable of.

That's a perfectly sensible idea.....so it won't see the light of day! :pac:

average_runner

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I can see people manipulating this system.
If they are providing a certain number of entrants for each age category you could enter as a 80 year old and probably be guaranteed an entry.

The Ring of Kerry Cycle has lost a lot of numbers and goodwill because they introduced a lottery system. 5 mates running the Dublin marathon could enter before and know straight away they had their entry. They could have been coming from abroad as a club. Now it is almost guaranteed that one of them wouldn't get an entry and so the 5 might not bother.

I would have thought allowing AAI members to enter first during the opening week and then allow others would be a better system. It would encourage people to take out club membership and all clubs around the country would benefit.

Waiting until Jan/February to find out you are successful will entice people to choose other options given that plans need to be put in place early.

Lots of other options out there anyway.

You will need to prove your age and your passport for collecting your number

skyblue46

manwithaplan wrote: »

Quick question. My wife has a GFA time (from 2018) but is not in a club. If she didn't get an entry in the first lottery, could she join a club and enter the April lottery? Would her GFA time from before her Athletics Ireland/club membership count?

I would think the time would count. The one thing I haven't yet seen officially is the qualifying period applicable to GFA. I'm not sure that a 2018 time would qualify.

average_runner

skyblue46 wrote: »

That's a perfectly sensible idea.....so it won't see the light of day! :pac:

That will happen, as they have to reward the clubs for the volunteer service they provide.

KSU

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I can see people manipulating this system.
If they are providing a certain number of entrants for each age category you could enter as a 80 year old and probably be guaranteed an entry.

This wouldn't work as you need a valid AAI membership which will have you DOB.

It would be spotted through the medal/prize awards and would presumably be Dq'ed from this race and possibly other championships.

manwithaplan

skyblue46 wrote: »

I would think the time would count. The one thing I haven't yet seen officially is the qualifying period applicable to GFA. I'm not sure that a 2018 time would qualify.

Actually she would have a qualifying time from 2019 in the Limerick marathon too. Had an injury and ran Dublin easy so was outside the qualifying standard this year. She has run the last 10 Dublin marathons.

robinph

youngrun wrote: »

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

At end of this

Seem fairly tough for the men..

It's a copy and paste from the current London Marathon GFA times, although with an added 35-39 category.

Murph_D

chasingpaper wrote: »

Of course the ones outside the GFA are really running, but they are not running in the same race as the individuals in their age group.
3:23 got a gold medal in M50, and 2:37 was first for the gold medal team. That is a massive difference, first one is 6 miles up the road, he is in a different race!
3:23 would was 94th in M50 category.

M35 medalists all 2:40 or under and senior men all under 2:43, most under 2:20.

I wasn't really aware of team prizes, so I do think each club should be given entries outside the GFA times. Every club should be allowed 3/4 runners to enter a team in each senior and masters grouping. Regardless of the times those runners are capable of.

Don't forget the Dublin Marathon is also the Dublin and Leinster championships also, so those competitions can have medalists with considerably lower times. And all three championships also have individual age category and team competitions (including masters teams).

I was lucky enough two years ago to win a M50 team medal in all three of those competitions, plus an individual county medal. I was 56 and ran 3:22 (third scorer). If the new entry methods/GFAs had applied at the time I'd want to have got in via lottery. Say I didn't, our club team doesn't place at all and there's a completely different result. My time was ordinary enough, but not at all unusual historically for a third scorer. I can't understand how the powers that be could not get together and at least base the GFA times on historic results of all three competitions, rather than cut and paste London times (modified only for the M/F 35-39 category) that have been designed around a completely different purpose.

chasingpaper

Murph_D wrote: »

Don't forget the Dublin Marathon is also the Dublin and Leinster championships also, so those competitions can have medalists with considerably lower times. And all three championships also have individual age category and team competitions (including masters teams).

I was lucky enough two years ago to win a M50 team medal in all three of those competitions, plus an individual county medal. I was 56 and ran 3:22 (third scorer). If the new entry methods/GFAs had applied at the time I'd want to have got in via lottery. Say I didn't, our club team doesn't place at all and there's a completely different result. My time was ordinary enough, but not at all unusual historically for a third scorer. I can't understand how the powers that be could not get together and at least base the GFA times on historic results of all three competitions, rather than cut and paste London times (modified only for the M/F 35-39 category) that have been designed around a completely different purpose.

Agree 100%. Entry standards could be used for individuals/club members not entering as part of a club team, or if a club has used their up allocation.
If anything the competition between clubs needs to be encouraged, more rivalry and club pride would be good for the sport.

Does each club get a certain number of guaranteed entries, based on member size or volunteer numbers? Surely these are people that should be looked after first.

KSU

On the bright side for people. The tougher standards for GFA the less spots taken away from the lottery so less people disappointed from that side of things.

Standards being raised is not a bad thing it pushes people to improve and rise to that level.

Plumbthedepths

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

If they avail of a refund, they lose out on a percentage (cant remember figure), why not charge 15-20 euro for a transfer of a number then? I understand some marathons do it for free, but if its money they are 'worrying' about, then just charge for the facilities to transfer.

The refund is 70 per cent.

Itziger

Lads, one minute now, there's a lot of codology goes on with these National Champs. To find the best runners in male and female, yes, that's their purpose but in all fairness to find the 3rd best club with over 55's, with all respect like.......... And I speak as a 54 year old plodder now.

Let it go. It's not the end of the flipping world if Athenry pips Ballina to the Over 50's bronze medal 'cos of the lottery system.

Not saying I like the lottery system mind. But the argument being 'waged' here about age categories and all..............

Murph_D

Itziger wrote: »

Lads, one minute now, there's a lot of codology goes on with these National Champs. To find the best runners in male and female, yes, that's their purpose but in all fairness to find the 3rd best club with over 55's, with all respect like.......... And I speak as a 54 year old plodder now.

Let it go. It's not the end of the flipping world if Athenry pips Ballina to the Over 50's bronze medal 'cos of the lottery system.

Not saying I like the lottery system mind. But the argument being 'waged' here about age categories and all..............

You have a point, but you're also missing one. Ballina might have ended up with no team at all. There are only two masters team categories, by the way, O35 and O50. The rest of the categories are for individuals.

dublin runner

Itziger wrote: »

Lads, one minute now, there's a lot of codology goes on with these National Champs. To find the best runners in male and female, yes, that's their purpose but in all fairness to find the 3rd best club with over 55's, with all respect like.......... And I speak as a 54 year old plodder now.

Let it go. It's not the end of the flipping world if Athenry pips Ballina to the Over 50's bronze medal 'cos of the lottery system.

Not saying I like the lottery system mind. But the argument being 'waged' here about age categories and all..............

So a National Medal isn't important? When do medals become important so?

I think many people in those age categories would strongly disagree.

Itziger

dublin runner wrote: »

So a National Medal isn't important? When do medals become important so?

I think many people in those age categories would strongly disagree.

I know they'd strongly disagree and they have a right to an opinion. I'm just a bit old school in my way of thinking.

National Champs are National Champs. Find the top 3 male and female runners at any given time/year in the country. Some of this AC stuff just seems to have gone too far.

I know a guy who wears a rainbow jersey out cycling 'cos he came first in the O55 Long Form Duathlon World Champs. There were about 6 participating. A colleague tells me about his sister who does Ironman events at a WORLD level. She often podiums. It helps that there are sometimes fewer than 4 in the AC!!

I like to see the Scullions of this world compete and when it's my time to run I do my best too but I don't think we can be drawing too many comparisons.

Burkie1203

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I have friends who entered the London for the crack and got in, several wouldn't run a bath but take great pleasure in saying they are in. The lottery will only encourage the 'wasters' as you put it. They have nothing to loose except 15 euro if they refuse a place.

If 22500 entries are sold by Nov 30th, at least 4500 of those wont be used and of that how many will actually go for a refund because they were forgotten about by xmas?

How many returned entries went on sale in July 2019 with the extra 2500 entries?


DCM need to release those numbers of returns this year as I can't find them anywhere. Was it officially released

Plumbthedepths

Burkie1203 wrote: »

If 22500 entries are sold by Nov 30th, at least 4500 of those wont be used and of that how many will actually go for a refund because they were forgotten about by xmas?

How many returned entries went on sale in July 2019 with the extra 2500 entries?


DCM need to release those numbers of returns this year as I can't find them anywhere. Was it officially released

I've searched too the figures weren't released. If Dublin was really concerned about fairness they would allow a deferral or name change option. It's quite apparent to me since someone like KBC is on board it is now corporate and money takes centre stage.
I know like others I won't be missed but I won't be running Dublin again.

chris85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I've searched too the figures weren't released. If Dublin was really concerned about fairness they would allow a deferral or name change option. It's quite apparent to me since someone like KBC is on board it is now corporate and money takes centre stage.
I know like others I won't be missed but I won't be running Dublin again.

One observation is that they pushed so much the people who have done all 40 previous Dublin Marathons and now from this year the chance of getting multiple in a row will be diminished and the clubs/groups which come out in force for this event every year will be much lower. The event was great and was a real event with the whole city coming out to support. The crowds were incredible this year. I fear doing this it will lose the support of the running group and supporters in the city and dilute the "friendly" marathon tag which it has been given.

I don't like chance. I said to myself last night I dont like it and wont probably enter the lottery. However I think now I probably will anyway but I will target another race as my main marathon for 2020. Pity as Dublin for me was always a nice way to round out my running year. After this I usually take few weeks off and see what the goal is for the following year.

PhilOssophy

chris85 wrote: »

One observation is that they pushed so much the people who have done all 40 previous Dublin Marathons and now from this year the chance of getting multiple in a row will be diminished and the clubs/groups which come out in force for this event every year will be much lower. The event was great and was a real event with the whole city coming out to support. The crowds were incredible this year. I fear doing this it will lose the support of the running group and supporters in the city and dilute the "friendly" marathon tag which it has been given.

I don't like chance. I said to myself last night I dont like it and wont probably enter the lottery. However I think now I probably will anyway but I will target another race as my main marathon for 2020. Pity as Dublin for me was always a nice way to round out my running year. After this I usually take few weeks off and see what the goal is for the following year.

Supporters won't care or know about the lottery, people come out to cheer on those running.

For me the big thing is the influx of time wasters into the lottery, nothing like saying "Oh I came out in the lottery", for me if you come out of the lottery you should be paying the whole amount straight away to ward off these time wasters and getting only people who are genuinely looking to run.

corcaigh07

If someone refuses an entry from the lottery, does that 15 euro just “disappear”?

Cona

Should be like New York (and assume others lottery majors) that you need to give credit card details to enter the lottery. Then if your picked, the money is taken ASAP, kind of like a contract once you enter the lotto. Unfortunately, that goes against the actual reason for the Lottery in the first place, which is to get as many people as possible showing interest so that they can drum up artificial numbers to show to Council/Gardai in order to grow the event to 30,000 entrants.

It may well depend on how this actually plays out but they could be running a very fine line here. If they disappoint enough club/serious runners and Dublin ends up becoming a circus show, other club members could begin taking their business elsewhere. I highly doubt that this would be the case, but who knows...

solidasarock

I was just talking about great past decisions by the DCM management.


Was the year of the disastrous Donabate half marathon the same year they rented out half the marathon expo one year to Scientology?

adrian522

Cona wrote: »

Should be like New York (and assume others lottery majors) that you need to give credit card details to enter the lottery. Then if your picked, the money is taken ASAP, kind of like a contract once you enter the lotto. Unfortunately, that goes against the actual reason for the Lottery in the first place, which is to get as many people as possible showing interest so that they can drum up artificial numbers to show to Council/Gardai in order to grow the event to 30,000 entrants.

It may well depend on how this actually plays out but they could be running a very fine line here. If they disappoint enough club/serious runners and Dublin ends up becoming a circus show, other club members could begin taking their business elsewhere. I highly doubt that this would be the case, but who knows...

Not only that but they rely a lot on club runners to volunteer around the course on the day which is part of what makes it such a great race, I'm not sure club runners will be as eager to volunteer in future either.