Knife Attack London

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 11:08am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

When you said

Right change that to ''everything ''
'Cause picking over that is the important thing

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 11:12am

Widdershins wrote: »

Right change that to ''everything ''
'Cause picking over that is the important thing

You'require the one denying civilian deaths by drone strike has no significance not me.

Any sign of those statistics on Pakistani terrorist attacks in the west?

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 11:14am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You'require the one denying civilian deaths by drone strike has no significance not me.

Any sign of those statistics on Pakistani terrorist attacks in the west?

It has less significance than the toxic interpretation of islam without which isis would not be isis. But ignore that because it's uncomfortable if you like. Don't expect others to do the same .

rjpf1980 · 05-08-2016 11:17am

A Somali Muslim immigrant to Norway attacks Israeli and American tourists in London with a knife after a spate of lone wolf Muslim terrorist attacks.

Nothing to see here. Move on.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 11:18am

Widdershins wrote: »

It has less significance than the toxic interpretation of islam without which isis would not be isis. But ignore that because it's uncomfortable if you like. Don't expect others to do the same .

I'm ignoring nothing

I agree that there are elements of Islam who twist the words of the Koran to suit their agenda and use this to radicalise people into doing these attacks

I also know that some doing these attacks are doing so because of drone/missile strikes by the west,

But ignore that because it's uncomfortable if you like. Don't expect others to do the same

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 11:21am

rjpf1980 wrote: »

A Somali Muslim immigrant to Norway attacks Israeli and American tourists in London with a knife after a spate of lone wolf Muslim terrorist attacks.

Nothing to see here. Move on.

Any evidence to disprove the statements from the police that this is not terrorism connected and just a man with mental health issues that attacked people at random?

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 11:22am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm ignoring nothing

I agree that there are elements of Islam who twist the words of the Koran to suit their agenda and use this to radicalise people into doing these attacks

I also know that some doing these attacks are doing so because of drone/missile strikes by the west,

But ignore that because it's uncomfortable if you like. Don't expect others to do the same

They -is-are hardly going to thank the west for bombing them. They are not worried about civilians .

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 11:23am

Widdershins wrote: »

They -is-are hardly going to thank the west for bombing them. They are not worried about civilians .

And as has been proven many times the west also don't give a sh/t about civilians when unleashing hell fire missiles.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 11:24am

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Letting millions more come in unchecked from the region certainly isn't the solution.

I haven't heard anyone suggest it was. Have you? In fact, many people in this thread alone have suggested the issues are unrelated. Immigration isn't contributing to these attacks so stopping it in the name of preventing attacks is wrong.

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 11:24am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And as has been proven many times the west also don't give a sh/t about civilians when unleashing hell fire missiles.

Are you isis's public relations person ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 11:25am

Widdershins wrote: »

Are you isis's public relations person ?

When all else fails :rolleyes:

Samaris · 05-08-2016 11:34am

I think it's pushing it a bit too far to either claim that ISIS has -nothing- to do with religion or that it has -everything- to do with religion.

There is absolutely no denying that the people carrying out the attacks are motivated by the words of their leaders and the extremist religion they've been sucked into. Their version of their religion doesn't impact many ordinary practicing Muslims who don't reckon that disagreeing with their god is a cause for jihad.

People are complicated creatures and can have more than one motivation. I am suspicious of the leaders claiming it's a religious war and that people should blow themselves and innocent people up because heaven and all that, mostly because I note they're not blowing themselves up, they're just using the easily lead idiots whom they can brainwash with their "higher cause" and "noble" whatevers.

Yes, I do think there is a cynical use of Islam to rope people in. It's an ancient pattern and has been seen many times before. People have a dumb spot when it comes to religion (or nation) telling them to do evil things for the "greater good". That does not mean that the people actually -doing- it aren't intensely, maniacally, religious. Zealots, in fact.

There are also probably some in it for more personal revenge, if they've lost their home or family members to airstrikes. That's human nature. And whatever their own deepest convictions, they'll probably be fairly okay shouting the words and ideals of people who -also- want to blow those responsible up. Although they attack civilians who had nothing to do with it, its easy enough to see how they'd justify it to themselves - X didn't care about civilians when they destroyed my home, therefore, their own civilians are a target.

We're talking about people here. It's rarely all or nothing.

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 11:47am

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I haven't heard anyone suggest it was. Have you? In fact, many people in this thread alone have suggested the issues are unrelated. Immigration isn't contributing to these attacks so stopping it in the name of preventing attacks is wrong.

Nearly all the attackers are first or second generation immigrants. How do you work out that it has nothing to do with immigration?

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 11:52am

Samaris wrote: »

I think it's pushing it a bit too far to either claim that ISIS has -nothing- to do with religion or that it has -everything- to do with religion.

There is absolutely no denying that the people carrying out the attacks are motivated by the words of their leaders and the extremist religion they've been sucked into. Their version of their religion doesn't impact many ordinary practicing Muslims who don't reckon that disagreeing with their god is a cause for jihad.

People are complicated creatures and can have more than one motivation. I am suspicious of the leaders claiming it's a religious war and that people should blow themselves and innocent people up because heaven and all that, mostly because I note they're not blowing themselves up, they're just using the easily lead idiots whom they can brainwash with their "higher cause" and "noble" whatevers.

Yes, I do think there is a cynical use of Islam to rope people in. It's an ancient pattern and has been seen many times before. People have a dumb spot when it comes to religion (or nation) telling them to do evil things for the "greater good". That does not mean that the people actually -doing- it aren't intensely, maniacally, religious. Zealots, in fact.

There are also probably some in it for more personal revenge, if they've lost their home or family members to airstrikes. That's human nature. And whatever their own deepest convictions, they'll probably be fairly okay shouting the words and ideals of people who -also- want to blow those responsible up. Although they attack civilians who had nothing to do with it, its easy enough to see how they'd justify it to themselves - X didn't care about civilians when they destroyed my home, therefore, their own civilians are a target.

We're talking about people here. It's rarely all or nothing.

Yes . Recruits will have come to that point for various reasons , motivations, and through various enticements , and because of various circumstances in their own lives . That has always been the way with people who are drawn into cults and nefarious groups .

The main thing distinguishing i.s from revenge terrorists is the fact that they aim to create a caliphate .

05-08-2016 11:59am

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes . Recruits will have come to that point for various reasons , motivations, and through various enticements , and because of various circumstances in their own lives . That has always been the way with people who are drawn into cults and nefarious groups .

The main thing distinguishing i.s from revenge terrorists is the fact that they aim to create a caliphate .

I sincerely doubt most of the vast majority of their ranks give a damn about this.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:01pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Nearly all the attackers are first or second generation immigrants. How do you work out that it has nothing to do with immigration?

It has nothing to do with current immigration because they are not recent immigrants. Stopping the immigration of refugees now won't stop terrorism now.

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I sincerely doubt most of the vast majority of their ranks give a damn about this.

Ok.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:02pm

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes . Recruits will have come to that point for various reasons , motivations, and through various enticements , and because of various circumstances in their own lives . That has always been the way with people who are drawn into cults and nefarious groups .

The main thing distinguishing i.s from revenge terrorists is the fact that they aim to create a caliphate .

ETA wanted an independent country. IRA wanted a United Ireland. most terrorism is based on territorial disputes.

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 12:03pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It has nothing to do with current immigration because they are not recent immigrants. Stopping the immigration of refugees now won't stop terrorism now.

Germany was hit last month by a shooting spree, an axe attack, a suicide bombing and a machete assault that left 13 people dead. Three of the four assaults involved refugees. The subject of this thread was Somali. The guy that murdered 85 in Nice was North African.

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:03pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

ETA wanted an independent country. IRA wanted a United Ireland. most terrorism is based on territorial disputes.

None of them wanted to expand a caliphate .

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:04pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Germany was hit last month by a shooting spree, an axe attack, a suicide bombing and a machete assault that left 13 people dead. Three of the four assaults involved refugees. The subject of this thread was Somali. The guy that murdered 85 in Nice was North African.

Now tell us how long each of those attackers were residents in the respective countries.

Mary63 · 05-08-2016 12:08pm

Well actually,the Afghan who attacked innocent tourists on a Train In Germany was a recent immigrant and he was fostered by a German family.

Some of the terrorists who attacked the concert hall and the restaurants in Paris had travelled into Europe as refugees their details were taken at border points.

Stopping uncontrolled immigration most certainly will stop terrorism now and in the future.What we are mostly seeing now in third generation terrorism being caused by radicalised losers with not much brain power and some are homosexuals attacking gay clubs.In twenty years time if we go on the way we are going we are going to see attacks by fourth generation terrorists and the existing Muslim communities as far as I known haven't acknowledged how much their self segregation has led to the current situation.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:08pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Germany was hit last month by a shooting spree, an axe attack, a suicide bombing and a machete assault that left 13 people dead. Three of the four assaults involved refugees. The subject of this thread was Somali. The guy that murdered 85 in Nice was North African.

Are you talking about the Munich shooting spree?

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 12:11pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you talking about the Munich shooting spree?

Second generation Iranian. The other three attacks were carried out by 'refugees'. The attack in London was carried out by a Somali. The Nice attack was carried out by a North African.

Tell us again how these attacks have nothing to do with immigration.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:18pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Second generation Iranian

Born in Munich

The other three attacks were carried out by 'refugees'. The attack in London was carried out by a Somali.

Lived in London since he was 5

The Nice attack was carried out by a North African.

True, lived in France 11 years

Tell us again how these attacks have nothing to do with immigration.

Tell us how stopping immigration now will stop attacks by people who have been here decades?

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:18pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Second generation Iranian. The other three attacks were carried out by 'refugees'. The attack in London was carried out by a Somali. The Nice attack was carried out by a North African.

Tell us again how these attacks have nothing to do with immigration.

If this is legitimate you can add it to that list. Allegedly another incident of media cover up
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/03/media-fails-to-report-gang-firebombing-paris-bus-while-yelling-allah-akbar/

Butters1979 · 05-08-2016 12:20pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You'require the one denying civilian deaths by drone strike has no significance not me.

Any sign of those statistics on Pakistani terrorist attacks in the west?

Drone strikes is a reaction to Islamic terrorism, not a cause. Tell me, what country was the west bombing at September 11th? Or when the Lockerby bombing went down.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:21pm

Widdershins wrote: »

If this is legitimate you can add it to that list. Allegedly another incident of media cover up
http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/03/media-fails-to-report-gang-firebombing-paris-bus-while-yelling-allah-akbar/

There's the thing, any further reports of it?

Butters1979 · 05-08-2016 12:23pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Born in Munich

Lived in London since he was 5

True, lived in France 11 years

Tell us how stopping immigration now will stop attacks by people who have been here decades?

Muslim migrants, or the offspring of Muslim migrants. It's the same problem.
Stopping immigration won't prevent attacks from those already here, but it will prevent attacks from those not here yet.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:25pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Drone strikes is a reaction to Islamic terrorism, not a cause. Tell me, what country was the west bombing at September 11th? Or when the Lockerby bombing went down.

Sept 11th lol, why did they invade Iraq and Afghanistan after that instead of going after the country that funded it and where the majority of the attackers came from?

And I'm sure the families of all those innocent civilians killed by drone strikes would be very happy with your explanation :rolleyes:

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 12:25pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Tell us how stopping immigration now will stop attacks by people who have been here decades?

All the attackers are second generation immigrants or immigrants themselves. All of them. Of course Europe's ridiculous immigration policy throughout the previous few decades is responsible. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it were not for immigration. And people want mass immigration to continue? Think it's bad now? Import millions more from the same regions and it will only get worse and worse.

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:29pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

There's the thing, any further reports of it?

Well there is a video in that link. I'm not sure if there is anything dubious about it .Yes as you will see when you google it, some websites covered it but it doesn't seem to have made the Irish Times for example . Hence the accusations of a cover up.We never have covered every single incident though. And some journalists fee a responsibility to protect immigrants from potential racism by containing certain facts.

Another report here: http://www.clarionproject.org/videos/reported-muslim-migrant-gang-firebombs-bus-paris

Butters1979 · 05-08-2016 12:30pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sept 11th lol, why did they invade Iraq and Afghanistan after that instead of going after the country that funded it and where the majority of the attackers came from?

And I'm sure the families of all those innocent civilians killed by drone strikes would be very happy with your explanation :rolleyes:

Answer the question. Who were we bombing when that happened. You sympathise with these attacks don't you?

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:31pm

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Germany was hit last month by a shooting spree, an axe attack, a suicide bombing and a machete assault that left 13 people dead. Three of the four assaults involved refugees. The subject of this thread was Somali. The guy that murdered 85 in Nice was North African.

Do you even know what a refugee is? German born with far right inspiration. The Munich shooter was following a man who had your kind of ideology. The knife attack had nothing to do with immigration. The suicide bomber should have been deported but wasn't. The only one you can blame on open immigration is the axe attack. Even the guy in Nice was in the country over a decade.

Widdershins wrote: »

None of them wanted to expand a caliphate .

So? Is terrosim more justified when it's a result of religious pride as opposed to nationalist pride?

Mary63 wrote: »

Well actually,the Afghan who attacked innocent tourists on a Train In Germany was a recent immigrant and he was fostered by a German family.

Some of the terrorists who attacked the concert hall and the restaurants in Paris had travelled into Europe as refugees their details were taken at border points.

Stopping uncontrolled immigration most certainly will stop terrorism now and in the future.What we are mostly seeing now in third generation terrorism being caused by radicalised losers with not much brain power and some are homosexuals attacking gay clubs.In twenty years time if we go on the way we are going we are going to see attacks by fourth generation terrorists and the existing Muslim communities as far as I known haven't acknowledged how much their self segregation has led to the current situation.

Nobody is suggesting allowing uncontrolled immigration. Vet the, interview them, give them an orientation if you want. Deport the radicals. No problem there. But don't simply refuse people because they come from an area where radicals are. It wasn't right when the Brits did it to us and it's not right now.

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:33pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So? Is terrosim more justified when it's a result of religious pride as opposed to nationalist pride?

No . Re-read the page you are uncertain about .

conorhal · 05-08-2016 12:35pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Born in Munich

Lived in London since he was 5

True, lived in France 11 years

Tell us how stopping immigration now will stop attacks by people who have been here decades?

By not importing cultures that integrate so poorly that even after decades to adapt to Western norms they still view their fellow citizens as a kuffar other to be murdered for no reason? Something like that?

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 12:38pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Do you even know what a refugee is? German born with far right inspiration. The Munich shooter was following a man who had your kind of ideology. The knife attack had nothing to do with immigration. The suicide bomber should have been deported but wasn't. The only one you can blame on open immigration is the axe attack. Even the guy in Nice was in the country over a decade.

Three of the four attacks were carried out by 'refugees'. They all boil down to immigration. It's how the attackers got into the country. The fourth attacker was a second generation immigrant.

All of this is due to Europe's crazy immigration policies of the past few decades.

LuckyRoche · 05-08-2016 12:40pm

conorhal wrote: »

By not importing cultures that integrate so poorly that even after decades to adapt to Western norms they still view their fellow citizens as a kuffar other to be murdered for no reason? Something like that?

Throw open the borders to millions of relatively unskilled and uneducated people from regions were radical religious and cultural beliefs are the norm. What could go wrong?

We are just starting to see what can go wrong.

testaccount123 · 05-08-2016 12:40pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting allowing uncontrolled immigration.

Uncontrolled immigration is way past being "suggested", its been happening for nearly two years. Not only is it happening, its being cheerleaded by many in Europe. Madness.

Butters1979 · 05-08-2016 12:40pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Do you even know what a refugee is? German born with far right inspiration. The Munich shooter was following a man who had your kind of ideology. The knife attack had nothing to do with immigration. The suicide bomber should have been deported but wasn't. The only one you can blame on open immigration is the axe attack. Even the guy in Nice was in the country over a decade.

So? Is terrosim more justified when it's a result of religious pride as opposed to nationalist pride?

Nobody is suggesting allowing uncontrolled immigration. Vet the, interview them, give them an orientation if you want. Deport the radicals. No problem there. But don't simply refuse people because they come from an area where radicals are. It wasn't right when the Brits did it to us and it's not right now.

Who says it isn't right? You? I say it is right. Over 1 million migrants and year and your solution is to interview them? What question would we ask? What if they lied and fooled the interviewer.

You seem to think anyone has a right to come to a country unless they can be proven to be radicalised. That's your point of view. I say we have a right to deny entry to our countries without proof, for the safety and stability of Europe. We're not a charity and we're not shelter.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:40pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Answer the question. Who were we bombing when that happened. You sympathise with these attacks don't you?

Who is we?

Who attacked the twin towers?

No I don't sympathise with these attackers I just don't swallow the rhetoric that is being fed to guillabe fools by main stream media that our way of life is about to disappear and there are terrorists on every corner waiting to behead us all.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:41pm

Widdershins wrote: »

No . Re-read the page you are uncertain about .

Your whole argument lacks a solid point.

conorhal wrote: »

By not importing cultures that integrate so poorly that even after decades to adapt to Western norms they still view their fellow citizens as a kuffar other to be murdered for no reason? Something like that?

How do you identify those cultures. I know plenty of Muslims who have integrated fine into Ireland.

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Three of the four attacks were carried out by 'refugees'. They all boil down to immigration. It's how the attackers got into the country. The fourth attacker was a second generation immigrant.

All of this is due to Europe's crazy immigration policies of the past few decades.

Two of them were by refugees, one who should have been deported long before the attack.

Fabb · 05-08-2016 12:41pm

Why should we bring in a large majority of immigrants because of something Bush, Rumsfield etc started?

Speaking logically and valuing your life is seen as racist to the unaware.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:41pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Who says it isn't right? You? I say it is right. Over 1 million migrants and year and your solution is to interview them? What question would we ask? What if they lied and fooled the interviewer.

You seem to think anyone has a right to come to a country unless they can be proven to be radicalised. That's your point of view. I say we have a right to deny entry to our countries without proof, for the safety and stability of Europe. We're not a charity and we're not shelter.

Without proof of what?

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:43pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Who says it isn't right? You? I say it is right. Over 1 million migrants and year and your solution is to interview them? What question would we ask? What if they lied and fooled the interviewer.

As they are explicitly advised to do when the situation suits , even up to denying their religion . Taqiyya.

Butters1979 · 05-08-2016 12:46pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Without proof of what?

Seriously? Can you not follow your own argument. Without proof of radicalisation. I say we don't need to prove an individual is dangerous to deny them entry. I say we can deny them entry based on the risk that they might be. It's our country and our borders.

Seriously, interview them?

"Are you radical"
"No no"
"Will you randomly attack innocent people because they're westerners?"
"Eh......no, of course not"
"Ok you're clear to come live here. Have some free money you're victims taxes pay for. "

Widdershins · 05-08-2016 12:46pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Your whole argument lacks a solid point.

Your capacity for reading comprehension is your own problem . You entirely misconstrued a basic point. Very simple . The issue was the level of religious islamic influence in islamic terrorism.

Don't expect another reply to unnecessary digs at my post .

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-08-2016 12:47pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Seriously? Can you not follow your own argument. Without proof of radicalisation. I say we don't need to prove an individual is dangerous to deny them entry. I say we can deny them entry based on the risk that they might be. It's our country and our borders.

Seriously, interview them?

"Are you radical"
"No no"
"Will you randomly attack innocent people because they're westerners?"
"Eh......no, of course not"
"Ok you're clear to come live here. Have some free money you're victims taxes pay for. "

So a 5 year old turns up at the border with his mother and you would interview him and if he didn't answer your questions you would send him back to a war zone?

conorhal · 05-08-2016 12:48pm

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How do you identify those cultures. I know plenty of Muslims who have integrated fine into Ireland.

They have identified themselves, repeatedly, so it's not that hard to see which ones the compatability problems come with. Common sense dictates that if you see a problem, you don't exacerbate it.
Your personal experience wiht 'plenty of Muslims' has no relevence to the basic fact that not one country Europe has succesfully integrated significant Muslim populations so we shouldn't import a problem we don't have, yet. I've already posted the Prime Time special on the Clonskeagh mosque, the problem if segregation and extremisim may be in it's infancy here but that's no excuse to ignore it and repeat the same mistakes that other European countries have made.

Little CuChulainn · 05-08-2016 12:50pm

Butters1979 wrote: »

Seriously? Can you not follow your own argument. Without proof of radicalisation. I say we don't need to prove an individual is dangerous to deny them entry. I say we can deny them entry based on the risk that they might be. It's our country and our borders.

Seriously, interview them?

"Are you radical"
"No no"
"Will you randomly attack innocent people because they're westerners?"
"Eh......no, of course not"
"Ok you're clear to come live here. Have some free money you're victims taxes pay for. "

Sorry, misread your post. I don't disagree we have a right to deny entry. But I also think we have an obligation to provide shelter to those that need it, as so many have done to the Irish in the past.

Widdershins wrote: »

Your capacity for reading comprehension is your own problem . You entirely misconstrued a basic point. Very simple . The issue was the level of religious islamic influence in islamic terrorism.

Don't expect another reply to unnecessary digs at my post .

I'm simply asking why you think religious terrorism is somehow different to nationalist terrorism. You haven't provided an answer.

Knife Attack London

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