Sweden avoiding lockdown

KiKi III wrote: »

Some countries are almost definitely lying.

Some countries are not lying but they are recording things differently.

It makes side-by-side comparisons difficult.

A country of over a billion records 80000 cases.

Italy, Spain and the U.S. have recorded 10 times as many cases between them and their combined populations are not even half that of China.

The Chinese are lying.

I think we were the first country with a complete workplace ban on smoking.

frillyleaf wrote: »

Does Sweden have the right approach to this and how is their healthcare system being able to manage Covid19 cases?

As I stated in another thread, I was sceptical at the beginning but I do understand now why they have chosen the path they have having listened to their state epidemiologist and Prime Minister explain it.

I don't know if it's the right approach, only time will tell, but I understand their logic and rationale and believe it is possibly the correct one for their country, given their rather unique social, political and cultural background.

Their healthcare system is universal, well funded at 11% of GDP, decentralised -mostly paid for by municipal, regional and to a lesser extent central government and one of the best in the world.

There are according to this source 433 ICU beds but they've ramped up the numbers of ICU beds in response to the crisis.

It would seem from what I'm reading that the pressures on their system are mainly in the Stockholm region, but they are managing so far and have set up a field hospital for overflow patients in the South of Stockholm. 337 people are in intensive care there. There was discussion about beds being moved around from one region to where they're needed if it came to it also, but I don't think they've needed to yet and the State Epidemiologist has said they're flattening the curve in Stockholm at least.

They have challenges with not having enough PPE gear, like many other countries and other cities like Malmo will be next to see a surge in cases so we shall see what happens.
The PM explained yesterday the shortage in PPE gear is because after the cold war successive governments reduced funding for emergency readiness systems and equipment.

Folkhälsomyndigheten (Swedish public health authority) COVID-19 site:https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

frillyleaf wrote: »

What are the differences between Sweden and Ireland and why can’t we continue similar to how Sweden is managing Covid19?

I’m not suggesting either is right or wrong. I would just like to know how Sweden can continue as normal and other countries can’t. Thanks ��

They're not continuing as normal. This is a big misconception. Yes primary schools and childcare facilities are still open but the government said this was so that healthcare workers in particular could still work. There is really no such thing as informal childcare arrangements with grandparents looking after grandchildren in Sweden as the childcare system guarantees affordable childcare for all and there are very few stay at home parents. I think the figure I read was over 90% of women work outside the home.
And even if they wanted to many grandparents don't live in the same area or region even as their grandchildren. Telling parents to stay at home and look after their children would collapse the healthcare system. Or at least that was what their PM said.

Anyone who can is working from home same as here. Almost all domestic flights have been cancelled.

Restaurants and cafes are open but only for outdoor service and the tables must be set at the correct distance apart. They're now talking about closing those businesses which do not comply with this rule.

They have brought in social distancing rules. They have stay home advice to the over 70s and families and told not to visit old peoples homes-hot spots for the virus in Sweden and where the deaths are mostly centred on it seems and an area that could still cause the death rate to increase hugely.

Hand hygiene advice is the same as here as is distancing in supermarkets.
People are not travelling or moving around as normal. Journeys outside Stockholm are down between 70 and 90% this Easter.

There are several reasons the Swedish way wouldn't work here IMO. Firstly we don't have the same healthcare resources to deal with a large spike in numbers as they do. Secondly social distancing is the norm there, no joke, so they can sustain that for long periods where we may find that more challenging. Swedes are relatively anti-social at the best of times.

Furthermore Sweden is the fourth largest country in Europe and has a low population density relative to its size, especially in the North. 10 million people.

They have the highest number of single occupancy households in the world. Again that means they have natural social distancing, and so less community transmission.
There's probably other reasons but that's off the top of my head right now.

Bit cynical wrote: »

Although they don't have the sever restrictions of other countries it does look like their death rate per million due to the virus is lower than a fair number of other countries, including France, Belgium etc. This may be due to their being a fairly conformist country that obeys guidelines. Although they don't have the same level of legal restrictions, the cities are generally quieter.

Housing may also play a part. It is much more common in Sweden to live in your own small apartment before forming a family than, say, Ireland where flat and house sharing or living in the parental home is common. Room sharing with strangers is common in the inner cities in Ireland.

It is still too early to say which country has the right approach. When this is over, things like the economy will have to be factored in. My worry in Ireland is that we may succeed in suppressing the virus but at some point, restrictions will have to be lifted in order to get some sort of economy that can be taxed to pay for services including medical services, pensions and so on.

I don't think the Swedish model is right for every country but it may prove to be the right model for Sweden when this is all over.

Precisely. This is the most accurate and astute comment I've seen on the thread so far.
As someone who has spent eight years of my life there returning quite regularly to visit and who still keeps up with Swedish news, I would say that's all spot on. Your last point in particular is one I've been saying also. The Swedish model and way of tackling this crisis may not work in any other country except Sweden.

Those who judge it negatively by the standards of their own country whether it's Ireland or wherever, don't have the full picture to be able to assess why Sweden has taken the path it has on the virus and are forming opinions without sufficient relevant knowledge or information of the country.

It does look alarming from the outside and of course there's a risk they may have got it terribly wrong (the situation in the old peoples care homes is very worrying), but somehow I think when the fatalities are counted when this is over there won't be many more per capita than their Nordic neighbours.