The Leinster Championship is dead.

23-11-2020 7:19pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Well in that case....apologies again for responding to a request from another poster which asked for those figures.

I'll be sure to check in with you next time on whether or not it's okay to post something in reply to somebody else.

You are missing the point completely, I suspect it is on purpose at this stage. Nobody is complaining that you provided figures. But if the figures are wrong or don't stand up to scrutiny or if they don't support the point being made, then they are useless.

A poster asked for the figures
You provided them
They were queried
You said "they're not mine"
Therefore those figures are worthless

If you think they're true, then argue the toss
If you don't think they're true, then why post them?

Uncle Pierre · 23-11-2020 7:35pm

You're funny.

Here's a figure: 252 new Covid-19 cases announced in Ireland today.

But that's not my figure. I'm simply posting something that I saw elsewhere.

So is the figure worthless?

But on a more serious note....I posted the figures simply because somebody asked for them. They didn't ask for scrutiny or analysis of those figures, and nor did I purport to give them. It really is as simple as that.

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 7:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You don't handicap Dublin, you remove one advantage they have that is not a natural advantage and you give it to their competitors. What advantage is that? Money.

Dublin can self-fund now more than any other county. So let them. (I am a Dub by the by).

The 2003 strategy put in place by Sean Kelly was designed to reinvigorate Gaelic Games in Dublin and to ward off challenges from the professionalisation of rugby and the continuing appeal of soccer. There were whole swathes of south Dublin where GAA was simply a non-starter.

In that regard the GAA have been spectacularly successful. Unfortunately the programme coincided with a decent Dublin team coming along naturally. This team was then supplemented by huge finances and an overhaul of underage talent meaning that the 2011 team (largely unaffected by the influx of money) was strengthened by 2011 minors who were more or less a direct product of the investment strategy. The 2011 minors gave Dublin Jack McCaffrey, Paul Mannion, Ciaran Kilkenny, John Small, Eric Lowndes, David Byrne, Niall Scully, Robbie McDaid, Emmet O'Conghaile and Conor McHugh. They filtered into a team with Paul Flynn, James McCarthy, Diarmuid Connolly, Bernard and Alan Brogan, Stephen Cluxton, Denis Bastick etc. The cumulative effect was dominance.

However, the GAA do have a model for bringing the sport to a good place in other counties. Just do what they did in Dublin on a scaled basis for the rest of the counties. It took around €17million to do it in Dublin because of the scale but the same results can be achieved for equivalently less money in smaller counties.

This isn't a theoretical question either. This has to be done. Otherwise saving gaelic games in Dublin will have had the perverse effect of killing Gaelic Football everywhere else.

Thread should have been locked after this post.

Anyone else defending the figures is just pure waffling nonsense that need to take their head out of the sand.

Any money raised by private backers is for the county, AIG, Jp McManus, Kerry group, mayo supporters club, whatever. That money is for the county its given to.

Any money from GAA should be distributed evenly and its just not as we all know. If anyone wants to deny that and say Dublin have not been given more than any other county over the last number of years then theres really no point in engaging

corny · 23-11-2020 8:06pm

dobman88 wrote: »

Thread should have been locked after this post.

Anyone else defending the figures is just pure waffling nonsense that need to take their head out of the sand.

Any money raised by private backers is for the county, AIG, Jp McManus, Kerry group, mayo supporters club, whatever. That money is for the county its given to.

Any money from GAA should be distributed evenly and its just not as we all know. If anyone wants to deny that and say Dublin have not been given more than any other county over the last number of years then theres really no point in engaging

Is such an admission the point of the thread? I thought it was about saving the Leinster Championship.

Distribute the development money evenly and Dublin will still mop the floor with Kildare and Meath. Whats your solution?

Dickie10 · 23-11-2020 8:09pm

i can now genuinely see something being brought in to split dublin, thought it was cloud cuckoo stuff before but i think it will now come in within 10 years, it will be a marketing dept dream, the dublin dearby etc, seen as a huge rivalry. look what thwy have done with leinster v munster , how many people went to leinster rugby games in 1990? about 300? dublin gaa will go the same way, maybe keep the same tcounty board for a long time maybe introduce a dublin B team into the league? or a Fingal team and Dun Laoighre Rathdown team? try it in league for a while what harm would it do? the precedent is thier with Fingal in hurling

The Lost Sheep · 23-11-2020 8:15pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

i can now genuinely see something being brought in to split dublin, thought it was cloud cuckoo stuff before but i think it will now come in within 10 years, it will be a marketing dept dream, the dublin dearby etc, seen as a huge rivalry. look what thwy have done with leinster v munster , how many people went to leinster rugby games in 1990? about 300? dublin gaa will go the same way, maybe keep the same tcounty board for a long time maybe introduce a dublin B team into the league? or a Fingal team and Dun Laoighre Rathdown team? try it in league for a while what harm would it do? the precedent is thier with Fingal in hurling

Rugby analogy isnt right here though. Leinster, Munster were far from a big deal back then apart from games against touring New Zealand, Australia sides etc.
They started playing more often, in regular league all through the year and then the success happened.

Uncle Pierre · 23-11-2020 8:24pm

Leaving my little sideshow with $hifty aside, the simple fact of the matter is that some 15 years ago, the GAA embarked upon a massive funding programme in a manner and on a scale never seen before, all for the benefit of just one county.

It may have been well-intentioned at the time (as I've previously acknowledged), even if I personally consider it was unnecessary if the main thing it was born out of was a "perceived threat" from other sports. As I've also previously stated, to me, that attitude belongs to more rural areas in bygone days. The possibility that some young people in a large and multi-cultural city might opt for "foreign sports" like soccer and rugby rather than gaelic games shouldn't be seen as a threat, and instead as just a fact of life.

Might be different if Dublin GAA had genuinely been on its knees at the time, but it wasn't. Any Dublin supporter who claims otherwise can try tell people in most other counties the woes of "only" wining three provincial titles in ten years, and going a full eight years without winning an All-Ireland.

Anyway, the long-term result is that the programme proved massively successful for Dublin....and again, fair play to them for making the most of the opportunity they were granted....but it's created huge issues for the game as a whole.

The only thing even approaching the "Dublin Project" in the years since has been the East Leinster Project that was initiated in 2016. It may or may not pay off in the long run, but it's doubtful how much it can actually achieve in two of the counties where it started (Louth and particularly Wicklow - no disrespect to either!), because of how they're coming off such a low base in the first place. And even if it does pay off, those counties are still ten years behind Dublin, and then it just creates other problems for other counties.

I threw out a hypothetical a few pages back about a "Rejuvenate Cork" programme in hurling. I don't expect it to be taken seriously, and nor do I mean it to be. But if you consider that Cork hurling has gone through a leaner phase now than Dublin football had up to 2003, and that probably more young people in Cork are now playing soccer and rugby too, then in essence, what's the difference? But imagine the uproar there'd be if GAA HQ announced millions for Cork hurling development, and none for anybody else.

I'm all for coaching and games development, so long as it's done fairly, with a level playing field for all. But a multi-million euro and multi-year programme that's designed for the benefit of just one county doesn't sit easy with me, and never will.

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 8:25pm

corny wrote: »

Is such an admission the point of the thread? I thought it was about saving the Leinster Championship.

Distribute the development money evenly and Dublin will still mop the floor with Kildare and Meath. Whats your solution?

I dont have a solution and thankfully, me or anyone else on this thread wont ever be required to create one. As was pointed out by kayroo, the gaa have the template to put this into practice in other counties the same way they have done with Dublin. They should be doing it.

Hammer Archer · 23-11-2020 8:35pm

Username Exists. wrote: »

Thats Kerrys centre of excellence paid for

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-20335403.html

No centre of excellence in Dublin BTW just a club's pitch for winter training and an old christian brothers pitch in summer.

Fundraising. Something Dublin don't have to worry about anywhere near the extent that most other counties.
Didn't Dublin spend millions on Spawell a number of years ago? As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), no work has been done on it and Dublin are now planning on spending more money on the old Hollystown golf course which is worth €15 million. Has there been any fundraising effort required for this? It's frightening that a county board can purchase a site for 5 million and leave it idle only to spend 3 times that on another site without any hassle whatsoever by the looks of it. We're trying to upgrade Pc Tailteann in Navan for years and there's been ridiculous amounts of fundraising efforts and requests for grants and funding and whatnot.

elefant · 23-11-2020 8:53pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because there's a much bigger catchment area and potential pool of players that could be convinced to take up the game at grassroots level, thus deserving of investment.

If we accept this as accurate, then it stands that Dublin will be the dominant force in gaelic football perpetually.

As such, inter county gaelic football as people have known and loved it will be finished. It will be a statistical anomaly any season that Dublin fail to win the all Ireland championship.

Scoundrel · 23-11-2020 9:10pm

highgiant1985 wrote: »

To me this is the nub of the problem. Larger player pool to pick from leads to a stronger squad. It's just maths really.

(i) I believe every child should have the opportunity to play and be involved so I wouldn't like to see any change to the funding models that would impact on under age.

(ii) However it also has to be acknowledged Dublin's dominance is killing the game. A strong Dublin is important to the championship but only where there's genuine competition. The easy option would be to divide the county in to two teams. There may be better options either. I don't claim to have a perfect solution but I do believe something has to change. I mean realistically can people see anyone but Dublin continuing to win Leinster for the next decade at least?

No county has a divine right to be strong so why is it ok for the GAA to fix it for Dublin to be strong?

Scoundrel · 23-11-2020 9:15pm

corny wrote: »

Is such an admission the point of the thread? I thought it was about saving the Leinster Championship.

Distribute the development money evenly and Dublin will still mop the floor with Kildare and Meath. Whats your solution?

And if they do after that fair enough but let's not compound and contribute to the inequality by over funding Dublin in the first place. Let's level the playing field if money has no bearing on it then what are ye so afraid of? Why dont ye want a level playing field?

corny · 23-11-2020 9:28pm

dobman88 wrote: »

I dont have a solution and thankfully, me or anyone else on this thread wont ever be required to create one. As was pointed out by kayroo, the gaa have the template to put this into practice in other counties the same way they have done with Dublin. They should be doing it.

There's no equivalence though, unless Meath and Kildare have huge non playing GAA centres i'm unaware of. I'm sure they can get some more kids playing but there's no Castleknock or a huge Southside club in waiting.

The development money was used to get children playing GAA in Dublin. It worked (something we should all applaud despite the affect on the county game) and now you have Dublin clubs with memberships and playing numbers that would probably entitle them to be a county teams in their right. Do you honestly believe taking away a few bob is going to stop these clubs producing players? Do you think the standard just falls away when the development money is redistributed? Some of the occasional posters (who are just noise on this) pushing the 'manufactured footballer' line can delude themselves into thinking it does but 100% they're wrong.

The standard pushed by the Dublin club scene now and then on into a well funded county team virtually assures Dublin a good team. They have a huge pool to choose from. As someone remarked, a player drops his standard even 1% and his place is taken by a quality player eager to make a mark. From their starting point (now) that is difficult with a capital D for Meath and Kildare to compete with. Development money or these templates you're talking about won't make a difference.

Kayroo (sorry Kayroo) is a champion because he takes the moderate line as a Dub.:rolleyes: That doesn't make him right.

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 10:05pm

corny wrote: »

There's no equivalence though, unless Meath and Kildare have huge non playing GAA centres i'm unaware of. I'm sure they can get some more kids playing but there's no Castleknock or a huge Southside club in waiting.

The development money was used to get children playing GAA in Dublin. It worked (something we should all applaud despite the affect on the county game) and now you have Dublin clubs with memberships and playing numbers that would probably entitle them to be a county teams in their right. Do you honestly believe taking away a few bob is going to stop these clubs producing players? Do you think the standard just falls away when the development money is redistributed? Some of the occasional posters (who are just noise on this) pushing the 'manufactured footballer' line can delude themselves into thinking it does but 100% they're wrong.

The standard pushed by the Dublin club scene now and then on into a well funded county team virtually assures Dublin a good team. They have a huge pool to choose from. As someone remarked, a player drops his standard even 1% and his place is taken by a quality player eager to make a mark. From their starting point (now) that is difficult with a capital D for Meath and Kildare to compete with. Development money or these templates you're talking about won't make a difference.

Kayroo (sorry Kayroo) is a champion because he takes the moderate line as a Dub.:rolleyes: That doesn't make him right.

I know about and agree with everything you say. I never said players would stop being produced. Dublin is self sufficient at this stage and have their house in order so dont need as much money pumped into it anymore. It shouldn't just be taken away but should be reduced certainly.

The bit you say about development money not working. It's been proven to work emphatically with Dublin. So makes sense it should be rolled out.

corny · 23-11-2020 10:32pm

dobman88 wrote: »

The bit you say about development money not working. It's been proven to work emphatically with Dublin. So makes sense it should be rolled out.

There's no thought behind what you're saying. I've pointed out the lack of an equivalence. The previously untapped playing populations that the development money mobilised are unique to Dublin. It won't have the same impact elsewhere and thus won't address the disparity in standards.

The view that the money is the answer is simplistic in the extreme and certainly not the definitive view you thought it was.

23-11-2020 11:01pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

You're funny.

Here's a figure: 252 new Covid-19 cases announced in Ireland today.

But that's not my figure. I'm simply posting something that I saw elsewhere.

So is the figure worthless?

But on a more serious note....I posted the figures simply because somebody asked for them. They didn't ask for scrutiny or analysis of those figures, and nor did I purport to give them. It really is as simple as that.

It depends on the source. As in your case, if someone wrote "292 cases" on a piece of paper, then took a photo of it and tweeted it, then yes, I would say it is worthless.

There's a world of difference between a press release from an official body and a tweet of a photo of a piece of paper with some words and numbers on it. But, you know this.

dobman88 · 23-11-2020 11:08pm

corny wrote: »

There's no thought behind what you're saying. I've pointed out the lack of an equivalence. The previously untapped playing populations that the development money mobilised are unique to Dublin. It won't have the same impact elsewhere and thus won't address the disparity in standards.

The view that the money is the answer is simplistic in the extreme and certainly not the definitive view you thought it was.

:pac: quite possibly one of the most patronising things I've had thrown at me on here and that's saying something.

We clearly have different views and to say that something flat out wont work in some counties when it is proven to work in another is naive at best. Make the money available to pay coaches or GDO or whatever in other counties to get kids playing and developing and see where it leads those counties in 10 years time. I'd be shocked if we didnt see a marked improvement.

Turfcutter · 23-11-2020 11:28pm

Well if Dublin fans are denying that money has anything to do with their dominance, then they shouldn't be bothered if it was distributed more equably...

Isn't that right?

DulchieLaois · 23-11-2020 11:32pm

I think the best solution is to boycott Re Leinster championship and the GAA will take notice

Scoundrel · 23-11-2020 11:32pm

Turfcutter wrote: »

Well if Dublin fans are denying that money has anything to do with their dominance, then they shouldn't be bothered if it was distributed more equably...

Isn't that right?

Indeed it is yet there seems to be fierce resistance to this for some reason I wonder why? The dublin arguement boils down to two things it's either the money makes no difference special group of players etc or we deserve the money we've more clubs players etc

Scoundrel · 23-11-2020 11:35pm

DulchieLaois wrote: »

I think the best solution is to boycott Re Leinster championship and the GAA will take notice

I agree the time has come.

RoyalCelt · 23-11-2020 11:37pm

EICVD wrote: »

& Westmeath have taken Kildares mantle as being the biggest whingers

First it was kildare, then meath, then mayo, then kerry and now Westmeath? It's almost like there's a pattern emerging about some legitimate concerns.

jmayo · 23-11-2020 11:46pm

Username Exists. wrote: »

Sportsjoe :pac::pac::pac:

Again underage development funding being used in an adult football discussion.

As if work done in development squads for u14/u16 never makes any difference a few years down the road when players turn minor and u20/u21 and then senior.

Username Exists. wrote: »

Not tiny but they would be less that Mayo etc.
Maybe the tiny fugure you seen in the article below is for match expenses which is not travel expenses.

It must be great for the country lads to wrack up big mileage expenses payouts when the Dubs get paid nothing for sitting on the M50 going nowhere.

Yeah because they just love spending their evenings and nights traveling up and down the country. :rolleyes:
Shure fook me pink why would they want to be at home especially if they have young family or they are just married.

I heard one of the Brogans on radio one night on about the dedication and how it was hard on the family him getting home at 10pm from some training sessions.
When he uttered that I thought how the fook would he like it if he was like Tom Parsons or Chris Barrett who were getting home at 1am after training sessions.
But the gimp interviewing him is typical of the ones on the likes of Newstalk or RTE who can never ask the hard questions.

Yesterday on Radio 1 they had some Dublin one on and she was on how great it was to watch how clinical and hard working Dublin were on Saturday.
Not one mention from anyone of the fact it was a totally one side borefest for a neutral because there was zero competition.
There was more competition between the Dublin players for places than between them and the opposition.

Cavan and Tipperary saved the weekend and maybe even the season for most football fans and made it memorable.

The stats speak for themselves.
The last 10 Leinsters, 15 out of 16 Leinsters.
5 All Irelands in a row.
7 out of the last 9 All Irelands.

Not a lot is ever made of this, but just look at the competition within Dublin senior championship.
Now they have not won that many All Ireland clubs, but it isn't like other counties with one club dominating (e.g Cross in Armagh, Corofin in Galway, etc) they have had Ballyboden, Ballymun, Vincents, Kilmacud all in the final with 4 wins between them.
Since 2003 (16 years) Dublin teams have won the Leinster Club championship 11 times.

From 1970 to 2002 (32 years) Dublin won 11 Leinster club championships.

So please stop this shyte that nothing different or anyway unique has happened within the last 15 odd years.
With the shyte you guys are spinning you look like you are after a job with Rudy Guiliani.

Uncle Pierre · 24-11-2020 12:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

It depends on the source. As in your case, if someone wrote "292 cases" on a piece of paper, then took a photo of it and tweeted it, then yes, I would say it is worthless.

There's a world of difference between a press release from an official body and a tweet of a photo of a piece of paper with some words and numbers on it. But, you know this.

I'm not going to nit-pick with you any more over the figures quoted above. I've already explained more than once that I was simply responding to somebody else's request for figures in the first place.

You seem to doubt the accuracy of these figures based on little other than how the letter writer took a photo of his letter and tweeted it. I, on the other hand, would be sure the writer properly looked up these figures first and satisfied himself of their validity in the first place, before including them in a letter intended for such public and widespread consideration. I doubt very much that he just made them up.

Similar figures are available in a myriad of other places online. I also doubt that they're all just made up too.

Looking at the bigger picture, I've set out my stall in a rational and reasoned manner a few posts up. If you can do the same from the opposite side of the fence, then please do.

Fann Linn · 24-11-2020 12:34am

DulchieLaois wrote: »

I think the best solution is to boycott Re Leinster championship and the GAA will take notice

Or maybe get your county rep to bring the games out of Croker. After all its such a great advantage to Dublin and yet ye keep voting to play your games there.
I think it was O Rourke that said it the other day, 'they we're beaten before the ball was even thrown in' in relation to Meath.

Rolo2010 · 24-11-2020 12:37am

I honestly don't think this dominance will stop. The population growth in Dublin will continue. The population is projected to grow to 1.7 million. The growth of GAA in Dublin is great but I can't see how it is sustainable for the rest of the country. It's a damning indictment of sucessive governments. They've completely forgetten about the rest of the country.

GalwayMark · 24-11-2020 12:50am

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I honestly don't think this dominance will stop. The population growth in Dublin will continue. The population is projected to grow to 1.7 million. The growth of GAA in Dublin is great but I can't see how it is sustainable for the rest of the country. It's a damning indictment of sucessive governments. They've completely forgetten about the rest of the country.

Dubs dominance is simply a microcosm of what governments have done and that’s creating a monster which is out of control in all areas regardless of the harm caused most notably concentrating 50% of all economic activity which is ludicrous even for a small island.

EICVD · 24-11-2020 12:55am

RoyalCelt wrote: »

First it was kildare, then meath, then mayo, then kerry and now Westmeath? It's almost like there's a pattern emerging about some legitimate concerns.

No Kildare were always the top of that list until the last few days.

EICVD · 24-11-2020 12:57am

DulchieLaois wrote: »

I think the best solution is to boycott Re Leinster championship and the GAA will take notice

How childish. We don’t wanna play because your better than us....

Rolo2010 · 24-11-2020 1:01am

GalwayMark wrote: »

Dubs dominance is simply a microcosm of what governments have done and that’s creating a monster which is out of control in all areas regardless of the harm caused most notably concentrating 50% of all economic activity which is ludicrous even for a small island.

Yeah. And anyone from rural counties who questions it is told to sit down and stop complaining. Anyway, a conversation for a different forum.

ExMachina1000 · 24-11-2020 1:05am

This recent string of Dublin football teams are the best ever by a long way.

Like a team of professionals in a world of amateur sport.

Great for them but bad for leinster football. An all leinster team vs Dublin would end in a handy Dublin win.

Do I care? Not really because I prefer hurling.
Frustrating for football fans though

Dyr · 24-11-2020 1:52am

jmayo wrote: »

The stats speak for themselves.
The last 10 Leinsters, 15 out of 16 Leinsters.
5 All Irelands in a row.
7 out of the last 9 All Irelands.

Never seen anything like that in the GAA alright

11 out of 15 All Irelands
16 out of 18 Leinsters
4 All Irelands in a row

But that wasnt Dublin so the world didnt end and the sky didnt fall

highgiant1985 · 24-11-2020 2:00am

Scoundrel wrote: »

No county has a divine right to be strong so why is it ok for the GAA to fix it for Dublin to be strong?

I never said it was ok for the GAA to fix it for Dublin to be strong so please don't put words in my mouth. I specially called out that the Dublin dominance was killing the game and I agreed that something needs to be done for the good of the game.

That doesn't take away from my view that a competitive Dublin team is good for the competition (considering the large following and interest they bring) and that what ever is done shouldn't be at a cost of stopping kids of all ages from being able to play. Be they based in Dublin or where ever its important that the opportunity is there for kids of all ages to be involved.

24-11-2020 2:24am

highgiant1985 wrote: »

I never said it was ok for the GAA to fix it for Dublin to be strong so please don't put words in my mouth. I specially called out that the Dublin dominance was killing the game and I agreed that something needs to be done for the good of the game. They're not exclusive points, unfortunately one leads to the demise of the spectacle. At this point if its about participation levels than the administrative area needs to be broken up.

That doesn't take away from my view that a competitive Dublin team is good for the competition (considering the large following and interest they bring) and that what ever is done shouldn't be at a cost of stopping kids of all ages from being able to play. Be they based in Dublin or where ever its important that the opportunity is there for kids of all ages to be involved.

Theres a bit of a difference between giving kids a chance to play the game through increased participation and how large numbers corresponds into the top level, the ones people enjoy as hobbies, being decimated.

And I dont disagree with you by the way, I wouldn't rather see the game neglected in Dublin to avoid a surge, but in terms of county it's too big and it should be divided into at least two areas to dimish those top level disadvantages while the kids also get to play through increased participation levels.

Dont worry anyway, the country boys still dont see the woods for the trees, another 10 years of uncompetitive LFC and AI's, the money boys will start to come around.

The only thing that will stop Dublin being split now will be a collapse in talent, and rise of other counties.
If the current trend continues the other 31 will just take the power and split them up.
But we're a bit away from that.

RoyalCelt · 24-11-2020 5:53am

Bambi wrote: »

Never seen anything like that in the GAA alright

11 out of 15 All Irelands
16 out of 18 Leinsters
4 All Irelands in a row

But that wasnt Dublin so the world didnt end and the sky didnt fall

If killkeny had 1/3rd of the countries population, 20 times the funding of others along with many other benefits like not having to spend money upgrading their stadium and huge sponsorships I'm sure they'd be dominating even more then dublin are now.

Hurling took a while to recover after their dominance and Offally still hasn't. What dublin has done to leinster is now beyond repair and won't organically heal itself like the hurling did.

24-11-2020 10:46am

corny wrote: »

There's no equivalence though, unless Meath and Kildare have huge non playing GAA centres i'm unaware of. I'm sure they can get some more kids playing but there's no Castleknock or a huge Southside club in waiting.

The development money was used to get children playing GAA in Dublin. [...]

The standard pushed by the Dublin club scene now and then on into a well funded county team virtually assures Dublin a good team. They have a huge pool to choose from. As someone remarked, a player drops his standard even 1% and his place is taken by a quality player eager to make a mark. From their starting point (now) that is difficult with a capital D for Meath and Kildare to compete with. Development money or these templates you're talking about won't make a difference.

Kayroo (sorry Kayroo) is a champion because he takes the moderate line as a Dub.:rolleyes: That doesn't make him right.

No, being moderate doesn't make me right. Nor does it make me wrong.

Your entire post was an argument for ceasing most or all of the funding to Dublin from the GAA. Keeping the money tap on at a time when we are drowning in money makes no sense. It bakes in an advantage that Dublin do not need.

In your entire post you do not actually defend the funding Dublin get. You just remark about how great the Dublin system is now (as a result of the funding, which is brilliant and shows it worked).

So answer me this. Why should we KEEP getting disproportionate funding? Where is the existential threat to GAA now? Is it in Dalkey or is it in Athlone/Carrick-on-Shannon/Carlingford? The threat is to clubs and particularly county teams who no longer see the point. The County game pays for a huge amount of the GAA, it has to remain healthy to keep the association thriving and right now Dublin are choking it to death.

24-11-2020 10:52am

corny wrote: »

From their starting point (now) that is difficult with a capital D for Meath and Kildare to compete with. Development money or these templates you're talking about won't make a difference.

This argument is also, on its face, utter nonsense.

We know development money and coaching structures work because they have always worked whenever they've been deployed. And the best example of that by MILES is Dublin.

Increase the number of full time coaches and games development officers and what happens? You increase the level of coaching and game development. What a shocker.

Tombo2001 · 24-11-2020 11:05am

GalwayMark wrote: »

Dubs dominance is simply a microcosm of what governments have done and that’s creating a monster which is out of control in all areas regardless of the harm caused most notably concentrating 50% of all economic activity which is ludicrous even for a small island.

This is why the discussion falls down.

Because 'Dublin doing well' is always equated to "The Dubs are trying to do country people out of it".

This bull**** notion that companies are somehow told where to locate. That Facebook would come into Ireland, and they look at Dublin with its 1 million people and they look at Tuam with its 8000 people, and they say "hmmm...I cant decide where to put the office, its hard to say where would be be best....where do you think Irish government".

Come on......

To get back to the gaa.

Its a fact that the vast majority of money that has gone into Dublin gaa has actually gone to Kids. That is a fact.

And it is also a fact that the same amount proportionately is invested in a child in Mullingar as invested in a child in Ballyfermot.

If you think thats unfair......well I'd like to know why.

Personally, to be honest - to only way for me to resolve this is lesser importance on the county championship and more importance on the club championship.

No Dublin player will want to play for North Dublin against South Dublin in an all- Ireland. But they do want to play for Ballyboden against Ballymun.

I dont see any way to resolve the ridiculous situation in Leinster without taking Dublin out of the championship altogether, and giving Dublin a bye to the Super 8s, or whatever that structure is.

LuasSimon · 24-11-2020 11:14am

In the 70s and 80s GAA in Dublin was played in pockets of Dublin largely though traditional GAA families and a share of country people.
Now its everywhere in Dublin across all demographics and areas , Ballymun , Templeogue , Clontarf, even Terenure College field GAA teams . The GAA investment has been a runaway success but its created a monster that cant be beaten its so good. Even ladies football is going that way and Dublin mens team are in under 20 football final as well.
Its like a London Soccer team playing Devon or Cornwall.

PS The GAA should concentrate their monies on other large centres now particulary Belfast, Drogheda & Sligo.

24-11-2020 11:20am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And it is also a fact that the same amount proportionately is invested in a child in Mullingar as invested in a child in Ballyfermot.

If you think thats unfair......well I'd like to know why.

Pretty sure this isn't true...

In 2015 (can't find more recent numbers) there were 39,197 registered players in Dublin of all ages.

Investment per player in Dublin was €274.70 per player. In Fermanagh, the 2nd highest per player figure in the country, it was €68.17.

Your entire premise for this is just nonsense. Dublin get WAY more per player in investment than any other county.

Dyr · 24-11-2020 11:24am

RoyalCelt wrote: »

If killkeny had 1/3rd of the countries population, 20 times the funding of others along with many other benefits like not having to spend money upgrading their stadium and huge sponsorships I'm sure they'd be dominating even more then dublin are now.

Hurling took a while to recover after their dominance and Offally still hasn't. What dublin has done to leinster is now beyond repair and won't organically heal itself like the hurling did.

Dublins dominence is unprecedented. but it was different when Kilkenny was doing it. Get off the stage

Don't worry, this great Dublin team will fade just like that great Kilkenny team did. When they do , Leinster will still be full of no hoper countys in hurling and football and you'll stop pretending that you could give a sh**t about them once Meath arent being bet out the gate in Leinster finals.

gourcuff · 24-11-2020 11:36am

Bambi wrote: »

Dublins dominence is unprecedented. but it was different when Kilkenny was doing it. Get off the stage

Don't worry, this great Dublin team will fade just like that great Kilkenny team did. When they do , Leinster will still be full of no hoper countys in hurling and football and you'll stop pretending that you could give a sh**t about them once Meath arent being bet out the gate in Leinster finals.

hasn't the kilkenny argument been thoroughly dismissed numerous times?

the level of sponsorship income, the huge disproportionate funding per registered player from the GAA, the million extra people, the huge net migration of irish people to dublin, croke park provided to them (mayo stadium development putting it into huge debt), playing every game at home, the list is endless - did kilkenny have all those advantages over their competitors?

AIG is the main partner of Dublin GAA who already boast 12 additional sponsors including:

O'Neills – official kit partner

Lifestyle Sports – official clothing partner

Ballygowan – official hydration partner

Energise Sport – part of the official hydration partnership

Aer Lingus – official airline partner

Linwoods – official health food provider

Skins – official performance baselayer product

The Gibson Hotel – official sleeping partner

ROS Nutrition – official supplement supplier

Jack & Jones - official menswear provider

Gourmet Food Parlour – restaurant provider

Subaru – official car partner

By comparison, Leitrim, have a deal with Bush Hotels that was believed to be worth around €20,000.

Dyr · 24-11-2020 11:46am

LuasSimon wrote: »

In the 70s and 80s GAA in Dublin was played in pockets of Dublin largely though traditional GAA families and a share of country people.
Now its everywhere in Dublin across all demographics and areas , Ballymun , Templeogue , Clontarf, even Terenure College field GAA teams . The GAA investment has been a runaway success but its created a monster that cant be beaten its so good. Even ladies football is going that way and Dublin mens team are in under 20 football final as well.
Its like a London Soccer team playing Devon or Cornwall.

PS The GAA should concentrate their monies on other large centres now particulary Belfast, Drogheda & Sligo.

Ballymuns had a GAA team since the 60s or the 1890s if you count Kickhams as a Ballymun team back then, Clontarf since the 60s, Templogue (Now TSS) founded in the 60s or 70s. Whats interesting is theres swathes of "New Dublin" without GAA clubs while some traditional GAA areas have aging populations and no space for pitches so room for improvement in uptake

bennyl10 · 24-11-2020 11:52am

Bambi wrote: »

Never seen anything like that in the GAA alright

11 out of 15 All Irelands
16 out of 18 Leinsters
4 All Irelands in a row

But that wasnt Dublin so the world didnt end and the sky didnt fall

No other country has ever been lumped with so much central funding it would be difficult for them not to win

It’s systematic financial doping.

jmayo · 24-11-2020 12:11pm

Bambi wrote: »

Never seen anything like that in the GAA alright

11 out of 15 All Irelands
16 out of 18 Leinsters
4 All Irelands in a row

But that wasnt Dublin so the world didnt end and the sky didnt fall

Ah yes Whatboutery 101 = Kilkenny.
Whataboutery 102 = kerry

But for Munster hurling in those years hurling interest would have died.
As it is hurling in Leinster was severily affected by Kilkenny and Galway had to be introduced to give some semblance of competition.

BTW here are Kerry's sponsors.

Kerry Group
O'Neills
Kerry Eye - local paper
The Kerryman - local paper
ivertec Broadband - local broadband
The Breton - hotel in Killarney
Meadownlands - hotel in Tralee
The Rose Hotel - hotel in Tralee
Horans Healthstores - Munster based health stores
Rypt - Gym software company
Atlantic Oil - local oil company
Geaney oils - local oil company
Kerry Pretroleum - local oil company
Credit Union

And here are Mayo's
Intersport Elverys - sports shops
Smyths Toys - academy sponsors
O'Neills
Connacht Gold - primarily Connacht based Aurivo Co-Op creamery
Homeland Retail - agri retail linked to Aurivo
Egan Jewellers - Castlebar
Travellers Friend Hotel - Castlebar

No Airlines, no car companies.
No international drinks companies.
But they can get a deal on butter and wellies.

Did you smash it · 24-11-2020 12:15pm

Really feel the Dubs here are beginning to see that their advantages are unfair. I think they are ready to crack any minute now after so many years of deadlock.

corny · 24-11-2020 12:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No, being moderate doesn't make me right. Nor does it make me wrong.

Your entire post was an argument for ceasing most or all of the funding to Dublin from the GAA. Keeping the money tap on at a time when we are drowning in money makes no sense. It bakes in an advantage that Dublin do not need.

In your entire post you do not actually defend the funding Dublin get. You just remark about how great the Dublin system is now (as a result of the funding, which is brilliant and shows it worked).

So answer me this. Why should we KEEP getting disproportionate funding? Where is the existential threat to GAA now? Is it in Dalkey or is it in Athlone/Carrick-on-Shannon/Carlingford? The threat is to clubs and particularly county teams who no longer see the point. The County game pays for a huge amount of the GAA, it has to remain healthy to keep the association thriving and right now Dublin are choking it to death.

You need to read the thread again. I'm not going to go in circles here. My first post to Dobman remarked that the point of this thread is not the redistribution of the development money...its reinvigorating the Leinster Championship. My opinion is that the talk of development money is irrelevant. Do you what you like with it. Won't make a blind bit of difference to the inter county game now. Dublin are too strong and the effect the money would have elsewhere wouldn't be the same. I've explained this.

If you want to talk about solutions that will make Leinster competitive again (split Dublin up/amalgamate counties, equalise inter county spends, removing Dublin from Leinster etc) i'm all ears.

Dyr · 24-11-2020 12:39pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ah yes Whatboutery 101 = Kilkenny.
Whataboutery 102 = kerry

But for Munster hurling in those years hurling interest would have died.
As it is hurling in Leinster was severily affected by Kilkenny and Galway had to be introduced to give some semblance of competition.

BTW here are Kerry's sponsors.

Kerry Group
O'Neills
Kerry Eye - local paper
The Kerryman - local paper
ivertec Broadband - local broadband
The Breton - hotel in Killarney
Meadownlands - hotel in Tralee
The Rose Hotel - hotel in Tralee
Horans Healthstores - Munster based health stores
Rypt - Gym software company
Atlantic Oil - local oil company
Geaney oils - local oil company
Kerry Pretroleum - local oil company
Credit Union

Kerry Group a major international business with 7 billion in revenue, thats some level of yerra to give it the beal bocht.

dobman88 · 24-11-2020 12:45pm

jmayo wrote: »

Ah yes Whatboutery 101 = Kilkenny.
Whataboutery 102 = kerry

But for Munster hurling in those years hurling interest would have died.
As it is hurling in Leinster was severily affected by Kilkenny and Galway had to be introduced to give some semblance of competition.

BTW here are Kerry's sponsors.

Kerry Group
O'Neills
Kerry Eye - local paper
The Kerryman - local paper
ivertec Broadband - local broadband
The Breton - hotel in Killarney
Meadownlands - hotel in Tralee
The Rose Hotel - hotel in Tralee
Horans Healthstores - Munster based health stores
Rypt - Gym software company
Atlantic Oil - local oil company
Geaney oils - local oil company
Kerry Pretroleum - local oil company
Credit Union

And here are Mayo's
Intersport Elverys - sports shops
Smyths Toys - academy sponsors
O'Neills
Connacht Gold - primarily Connacht based Aurivo Co-Op creamery
Homeland Retail - agri retail linked to Aurivo
Egan Jewellers - Castlebar
Travellers Friend Hotel - Castlebar

No Airlines, no car companies.
No international drinks companies.
But they can get a deal on butter and wellies.

Kerry group have given absolute fortunes to Kerry over the years and still do. I wouldnt exactly call it a small local business either.

And a lot of Kerry lads get cars from local dealers, Audi, Hyundai, Toyota, youd see them all with the branding on the side. One that's local to me that I know of is Reens Rathmore who are a Peugeot dealership have sponsored Paul Murphy for the last few years.

I'd assume some Mayo lads have car deals as do the Dubs and other top sides. It comes with being a county player.

But my main point was about Kerry group. Nothing small about em, they're a major international company

Rosita · 24-11-2020 12:45pm

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Hurling took a while to recover after their dominance and Offally still hasn't. .

The fact that Offaly cannot beat Kerry, Antrim or Down at hurling has nothing to with anyone's "dominance". That was determined by matters inside the county. The blaming of counties for the failure of others makes no sense.

The Leinster Championship is dead.

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