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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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    #4982
    niloc1951
    Registered Users Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    I’d prefer to see traffic calming, a reduce speed limit around the junction and proper turning lanes.

    I don’t see any real reason to closing this junction if it was properly configured.

    If it was in France there would probably be a roundabout. They have a love affair with roundabouts in France on their N & D roads, our equivalent N & R


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    #4983
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    If it was in France there would probably be a roundabout. They love a love affair with roundabouts in France on their N & D roads, our equivalent N & R
    At least with a roundabout, it enforces a speed limit through the junction and allows right turning traffic in and out.


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    #4984
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    At least with a roundabout, it enforces a speed limit through the junction and allows right turning traffic in and out.

    However disproportionately affects mainline traffic for a minority

    There's a deeper problem here. This project from Rathduff to Killeens should have been either dualled or at least grade separated when built in the 90s. The failure to do this is now apparent especially how large given traffic volumes are now.


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    #4985
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    If it was in Galway there would probably be a roundabout. They love a love affair with roundabouts in Galway on their N & R roads

    Fixed your post for you.


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    #4986
    niloc1951
    Registered Users Posts: 2,038 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Fixed your post for you.

    Well, I never knew someone could change another persons post and quote the changed version.
    Talk about fake news :confused:

    Another common solution in Europe for junctions like the Waterloo one on the N20 is the p, or to us a q arrangement for traffic wanting to enter right, instead of waiting in the middle of a road to make a right turn traffic exits left and waits at the top of the q then travels straight across when both lanes are clear. This eliminates the danger associated with a vehicle making a slow or hesitant right turn across oncoming traffic.

    For traffic emerging, there is a waiting lane in the middle where vehicles can wait before merging when a gap presents itself in traffic coming from the left.
    This means traffic wanting to exit right makes the manoeuvre in two parts, first to the waiting lane when a gap in traffic from the right presents itself followed by merging with traffic coming from the left when a gap in that flow presents itself.

    The above arrangements are usually accompanied by a reduced speed limit and sometimes increasing closer rumble strips which are quite effective in causing drivers to reduce speed.

    A few moments of reduced speed should not be too much to ask of transiting drivers in order to facilitate local residents.


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    #4987
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    I was wrong about the junction having been cleared, it's just some of the cones have disappeared. the unofficial work around is still in use though.


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    #4988
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A couple of the proposed routes seem close enough to Dromahane, where we live, is it likely that they would try to avoide Dromahane or should we be worried? I have looked into it but cannot really get any answers. Thanks


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    #4989
    Mc Love
    Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    Why would they try to avoid Dromahane? Looks like they could go between the racecourse and the current N20


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    #4990
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mc Love wrote: »
    Why would they try to avoid Dromahane? Looks like they could go between the racecourse and the current N20

    Because it is a village? No idea how it works just reading up about it now.


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    #4991
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because it is a village? No idea how it works just reading up about it now.


    You could be pushing up daisies before that road is ever built!

    IIRC the Blue route was west of Mallow and was ruled out on environmental grounds. All of the rest of the suggested routes were east of Mallow which was useful as they all tied in with the N71/N72 junction at Ballyvorisheen


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    #4992
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cjpm wrote: »
    You could be pushing up daisies before that road is ever built!

    IIRC the Blue route was west of Mallow and was ruled out on environmental grounds. All of the rest of the suggested routes were east of Mallow which was useful as they all tied in with the N71/N72 junction at Ballyvorisheen

    Thanks very much, that answered my question.


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    #4993
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Thanks very much, that answered my question.

    One cannot dismiss the previous route options and studies but there are no guarantees what will be selected next time.


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    #4994
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Traffic is back from the M20/N20 Interchange to the overbridge on the Croom bypass at the minute due to roadworks. There's also a queue in the other direction back onto the M20 westbound.

    Why these works had to take place on a Friday evening a few weeks before Xmas is bizarre.


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    #4995
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Traffic backed up north of the Dairygold roundabout every morning now with queues on the other Mallow junctions just to get onto the road.


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    #4996
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    Traffic backed up north of the Dairygold roundabout every morning now with queues on the other Mallow junctions just to get onto the road.
    Is this all traffic heading for Cork? If there was a viable way of getting around Cork using public transport more people might take the train.


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    #4997
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    marno21 wrote: »
    Is this all traffic heading for Cork? If there was a viable way of getting around Cork using public transport more people might take the train.

    Yep it's all heading to Cork, traffic comes to a complete standstill on the 2+1. The new Annabella roundabout has just pushed the congestion down to the 2+1.
    Traffic isn't helped by some clowns deciding to take their tractors out a couple of days a week at rush hour.
    The train service is prohibitively expensive, for a meeting in the City Centre I find that it is cheaper to drive and park up for the day, fuel and parking considered.


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    #4998
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    I have noticed that it is harder to access the N20 from the N72 with the new roundabout. Mostly because of people being too timid to pull out.( People also have trouble staying in lane and seem to need both lanes to negotiate the donut). There are still many people sticking to the old layout who haven't noticed the lane changes (and the speed limit changes)


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    #4999
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    Traffic backed up north of the Dairygold roundabout every morning now with queues on the other Mallow junctions just to get onto the road.

    We got our road to Dublin and we should be happy with that.


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    #5000
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Isambard wrote: »
    I have noticed that it is harder to access the N20 from the N72 with the new roundabout. Mostly because of people being too timid to pull out.( People also have trouble staying in lane and seem to need both lanes to negotiate the donut). There are still many people sticking to the old layout who haven't noticed the lane changes (and the speed limit changes)

    Very hard to exit the railway station now at both entrances with traffic arriving way faster, sightlines aren't great coming from the N72 or Mallow town.


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    #5001
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    Very hard to exit the railway station now at both entrances with traffic arriving way faster, sightlines aren't great coming from the N72 or Mallow town.

    I use the car park exit for that reason, at least you've some chance at the roundabout


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    #5002
    cjpm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭cjpm


    After 5,000 posts on this thread we are still no closer to seeing the M20 completed than we were 10 years, 3 months and 6 days ago when the thread first started..... :(


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    #5003
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    marno21 wrote: »
    Traffic is back from the M20/N20 Interchange to the overbridge on the Croom bypass at the minute due to roadworks. There's also a queue in the other direction back onto the M20 westbound.

    Why these works had to take place on a Friday evening a few weeks before Xmas is bizarre.


    This work was due to be comoleted by 4pm on friday evening but the plant in Bunratty suffered a breakdown around midday on Friday so material production was delayed. Unforeseen circumstances Im afraid.


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    #5004
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    cjpm wrote: »
    After 5,000 posts on this thread we are still no closer to seeing the M20 completed than we were 10 years, 3 months and 6 days ago when the thread first started..... :(

    The Berlin Wall stood for 10,386 days and on February 18th of this year it was gone the same length of time.
    I suspect after the next 5,000 posts, 10 years, 3 months and 6 days this thread will still be going strong.


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    #5005
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    The Berlin Wall stood for 10,386 days and on February 18th of this year it was gone the same length of time.
    I suspect after the next 5,000 posts, 10 years, 3 months and 6 days this thread will still be going strong.
    The M17/M18 thread is still going strong, despite the road being constructed and open for over a year. ;)


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    #5006
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    This is far from welcome

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/900m-motorway-may-be-a-decade-from-completion-37588036.html

    The €900m M20 Cork-Limerick motorway could be more than a decade away after the Government confirmed it was likely to be scheduled after three other major road projects in Cork.


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    #5007
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    This is far from welcome

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/900m-motorway-may-be-a-decade-from-completion-37588036.html

    Nothing new there really, I think his comments have been misinterpreted

    The N22 and M28 projects are being built first because they are further ahead in the planning process. The M20 could be accelerated through the planning process rather cheaply and more importantly with no effect on the N22 & M28.

    The M21 project is to go to An Bord Pleanala in Q1 2019. Roughan O'Donovan were appointed for Phase 1-4 in April 2014. This is where the issue lies, 5 years is far too long.


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    #5008
    highwaymaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭highwaymaniac


    marno21 wrote: »
    Nothing new there really, I think his comments have been misinterpreted

    The N22 and M28 projects are being built first because they are further ahead in the planning process. The M20 could be accelerated through the planning process rather cheaply and more importantly with no effect on the N22 & M28.

    The M21 project is to go to An Bord Pleanala in Q1 2019. Roughan O'Donovan were appointed for Phase 1-4 in April 2014. This is where the issue lies, 5 years is far too long.

    Concur with this, he is actually being realistic which is refreshing from a politician.

    Absolutely, way too long, the increasing number of challenges and complex EU environmental law partly to blame, giving big schemes to one consultant is another, they are struggling to retain staff and find replacements, need at least 2 or 3 involved, have the design scope flexible so can give more work to the best performing consultant. Nothing like competition for additional work to focus the mind.


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    #5009
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    I believe I heard on the radio yesterday that the Waterloo exit on the N20 is to be re-opened. I missed most of it but I think they said it would be open again in early February


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    #5010
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Isambard wrote: »
    I believe I heard on the radio yesterday that the Waterloo exit on the N20 is to be re-opened. I missed most of it but I think they said it would be open again in early February
    Opening again as a LILO.

    In other news, no sign of any progress on the tender award for Phases 1-4 of this. It's now 27 months since this project was reactivated and it still hasn't actually started Phases 1-4 yet. The M11/N11 project was born in 2018 and is already ahead of this one.


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    #5011
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Opening again as a LILO.

    In other news, no sign of any progress on the tender award for Phases 1-4 of this. It's now 27 months since this project was reactivated and it still hasn't actually started Phases 1-4 yet. The M11/N11 project was born in 2018 and is already ahead of this one.

    Que people doing uturns to make the junction work for them.


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