M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Cork Trucker

First time travelling the N20 in weeks, the Waterloo junction works look 'interesting' to say the least. what i have spotted is there appears to be another access road just before the junction gong northbound, i can't for the life of me remember if it was already there or it's an old road being reopened separately to the junction in question.

highwaymaniac

Cork Trucker wrote: »

First time travelling the N20 in weeks, the Waterloo junction works look 'interesting' to say the least. what i have spotted is there appears to be another access road just before the junction gong northbound, i can't for the life of me remember if it was already there or it's an old road being reopened separately to the junction in question.

I understand that it's going to be a left in, left out. A diverge lane but no merge lane. There will be plastic bollards down the middle of the road time prevent uturns

Cork Trucker

highwaymaniac wrote: »

I understand that it's going to be a left in, left out. A diverge lane but no merge lane. There will be plastic bollards down the middle of the road time prevent uturns

Passed out there on Wednesday, it looks a right mess, did someone say they are removing part of the ditch along there?

Isambard

not heard that, to improve sight lines perhaps? They can't really relocate the junction itself as it's a sheer drop down to Waterloo to the south

Isambard

highwaymaniac wrote: »

I understand that it's going to be a left in, left out. A diverge lane but no merge lane. There will be plastic bollards down the middle of the road time prevent uturns

it seems it will be LILO, but the island they are installing doesn't look big enough to deter right turns or U turns, so I hope you're right about the bollards and that they stretch a good distance from the junction.

I fear they'll be like the ones closing the gaps on the 2+1....removed at the farm entrances unofficallly and then never reinstalled when they rebuilt the road.I even saw a tractor and trailer turning right into a farm from the overtaking lane...madness.

highwaymaniac

Isambard wrote: »

it seems it will be LILO, but the island they are installing doesn't look big enough to deter right turns or U turns, so I hope you're right about the bollards and that they stretch a good distance from the junction.

I fear they'll be like the ones closing the gaps on the 2+1....removed at the farm entrances unofficallly and then never reinstalled when they rebuilt the road.I even saw a tractor and trailer turning right into a farm from the overtaking lane...madness.

I have been told that they bollards will be over a decent length either direction.

That is madness, did they not make it continuous across these locations when they put it the replacement wire rope a year or two ago?

Isambard

no there's gaps presumably for emergency access opposite entrances and they were originally blocked with bollards, but they disappeared and didn't get replaced.

neiljung

Isambard wrote: »

no there's gaps presumably for emergency access opposite entrances and they were originally blocked with bollards, but they disappeared and didn't get replaced.

Drawings of the proposed layout

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-11/N20%20Waterloo%20Junction%20S38%20Dwg.pdf

Isambard

so no impact bollards to prevent people turning right on to the N20 then? Oh dear, you can see it happening.

Limerick74

The note on the drawing said "Subject to Road Safety Audit and Detailed Design Process". So hopefully they deal with the potential right turner out of Waterloo junction with additional bollards etc.

Kevwoody

What's the point of the bollards the whole way along the turn left lane going in?!

And none for traffic coming out of the junction?

This is an accident waiting to happen.

Isambard

seems to me the bollards would stop both illegal moves if they simply ran down the centre line. A centre isle with crash barriers would have been even better.

Limerick74

Kevwoody wrote: »

What's the point of the bollards the whole way along the turn left lane going in?!

And none for traffic coming out of the junction?

This is an accident waiting to happen.

The bollards along the left turn lane are to prevent southbound N20 traffic turning right / u turns into Waterloo Junction. Needs something to prevent the right turn out the junction.

AugustusMinimus

This could easily create more accidents with drivers going a few 100 meters down the road and then doing a u turn, which isn’t illegal unless there’s an unbroken white line.

Isambard

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This could easily create more accidents with drivers going a few 100 meters down the road and then doing a u turn, which isn’t illegal unless there’s an unbroken white line.

there would be no need as there are side turnings in both directions close at hand where safe turnbacks could be effected

Kevwoody

Passed through here earlier, didn't manage to get any photos unfortunately.
So travelling north from Blarney, the Bollards start in the middle of the road way before the Ballygibbon turn off. They continue along the entire hatch marking in the middle of the road the whole way past the Ballygibbon junction and follow the centre of the road a few hundred metres past the Waterloo junction. Totally different to the drawings, but much better.
It will now be impossible to turn right for Waterloo, and the bollards are nice and close together and very visible.
The only problem will be anyone still insisting on performing U turns, but hopefully the bollards go far enough north to deter that.

Isambard

common sense has prevailed then.

do the bollards prevent a right turn out from the Ballygibbin junction too then? Sounds that way and not too helpful for the Whitechurch school run!

BIGT4464

In Germany they would put a Traffic light junction here, with a 70KPH limit on approach. It wound be green most of the time for mainline traffic.

Kevwoody

Isambard wrote:

do the bollards prevent a right turn out from the Ballygibbin junction too then? Sounds that way and not too helpful for the Whitechurch school run!

I'm not too sure, but they probably do alright. The bollards only have a gap for traffic to turn into the junction, so probably when exiting there's no gap directly in front of you.

chalkitdown1

BIGT4464 wrote: »

In Germany they would put a Traffic light junction here, with a 70KPH limit on approach. It wound be green most of the time for mainline traffic.

In Germany this road would be a motorway.

Cork Trucker

Just home from a spin along the N20.

There is a deterrent to southbound traffic from making a U-Turn as it goes on for quite a stretch towards Blarney.

Northbound is a different story.

There is a gap for a right turn to Ballygibbon, this is going to be a cause of potential concern because some idiot may come from the waterloo junction, and try and turn right illegally for the gap to go southbound. Now it is possible that it may happen, but there is always 1.

Also there is no new signage as yet directing traffic straight for Blarney.

Kermit.de.frog

Is there an update on WHEN we will see designs for the new road?

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Is there an update on WHEN we will see designs for the new road?

Hopefully within the next 15-18 months. Open to correction on that

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Hopefully within the next 15-18 months. Open to correction on that

estimated opening of 2027 isn't it?

Kermit.de.frog

marno21 wrote: »

Hopefully within the next 15-18 months. Open to correction on that

Just for the design?

Comically disgraceful.

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Just for the design?

Comically disgraceful.

Not even that's for the route options, based on similar timelines at present.

I hope it's faster but I've realised at this stage that "hope" and "M20" are a contradiction in terms

Isambard

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Just home from a spin along the N20.

There is a deterrent to southbound traffic from making a U-Turn as it goes on for quite a stretch towards Blarney.

Northbound is a different story.

There is a gap for a right turn to Ballygibbon, this is going to be a cause of potential concern because some idiot may come from the waterloo junction, and try and turn right illegally for the gap to go southbound. Now it is possible that it may happen, but there is always 1.

Also there is no new signage as yet directing traffic straight for Blarney.

can you still turn right out of the Ballygibbon Junction did you notice? I suspect southbound traffic may attempt a U turn through the Ballygibbon gap

medoc

marno21 wrote: »

Not even that's for the route options, based on similar timelines at present.

I hope it's faster but I've realised at this stage that "hope" and "M20" are a contradiction in terms

15-18 months would be just about acceptable to get to putting shovels in the ground not for route selections alone. Surely it’s possible to get through a reasonable and fair consultation, design and planning process in a year and a half for a strategic piece of infrastructure?

marno21

medoc wrote: »

15-18 months would be just about acceptable to get to putting shovels in the ground not for route selections alone. Surely it’s possible to get through a reasonable and fair consultation, design and planning process in a year and a half for a strategic piece of infrastructure?

Yes it is. But this is a ~95km motorway. To design and plan a 95km motorway you need lots of hands. And lots of hands cost money. And spending money is something that the current administration don't fancy unless it's plugging gigantic holes in current spending.

We could take a massive leap forward as a country if we could universally agree to use all unbudgeted corporation tax income for infrastructure or into a budget surplus to cut down on exchequer debt.

highwaymaniac

medoc wrote: »

15-18 months would be just about acceptable to get to putting shovels in the ground not for route selections alone. Surely it’s possible to get through a reasonable and fair consultation, design and planning process in a year and a half for a strategic piece of infrastructure?

No that is completely unrealistic for a project of this scale, i would say it will take An Bord Pleanala 15-18 months alone to decide on the planning application. Tender Process would take 12 months, it will be a PPP contract, so financial due diligence from the funding banks would take 6 months alone.