M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

marno21

Bazzer007 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/345940/project-delivery-team-appointed-on-limerick-to-cork-motorway.html

CEO of Limerick Chamber was on Live95FM last week talking about this. She said the design team hopes to have Phases 1-4 complete by 2022-2024 (feasibility/route selection/design/planning permission).

That's scandalously slow in my opinion

For reference, TII regularly claim that the old M20 project took 18 months from a standing start to An Bord Pleanala submission. If it could be done then it could be done again.

Say what you want about the Fianna Fail government but their contribution to the roads network of this country between 1997 and 2011 is massive. If that kind of attitude could be found somewhere (unlikely with the Blueshirts) we might be going somewhere.

prunudo

Wow, thats shockingly slow. They need to look into fast tracking large infrastructure projects.

highwaymaniac

marno21 wrote: »

CEO of Limerick Chamber was on Live95FM last week talking about this. She said the design team hopes to have Phases 1-4 complete by 2021-2023 (feasibility/route selection/design/planning permission).

That's scandalously slow in my opinion

For reference, TII regularly claim that the old M20 project took 18 months from a standing start to An Bord Pleanala submission. If it could be done then it could be done again.

Say what you want about the Fianna Fail government but their contribution to the roads network of this country between 1997 and 2011 is massive. If that kind of attitude could be found somewhere (unlikely with the Blueshirts) we might be going somewhere.

It took 22 months last time out, April 2008 to February 2010. Tenders for the consultants are due back by the end of the month. I hope they have set a max 2 year target to get this lodged with ABP. If you are looking at the completion of Phase 4 ( decision from ABP) earliest I can see it is 3 years things going very well so Q1 2022.

marno21

Sorry lads that's actually 2022-2024 (I edited the original post). It's 3-5 years from when they start

Dats me

Why aren't they using the old M20 design then, if it was finished only 8 years ago?

Shn99

So at least 2024 before they start? Farce! For all we know there could be another recession by then, then the M20 gets pushed back another 5-10 yrs..

annfield1978

Tenders for Consultants due in Monday Week, decision/ award before Christmas

Cork Trucker

I really fear for this project if it takes another 5 years to get it off the ground, Fine Gael have no interest in this contrary to what Varadkar is saying, Shane Ross is no better.

As for what Marno21 said about Fianna Fail, he was spot on, when they were in government there were road project in many places. All it takes is another recession and we're back to square one.

Limerick74

Dats me wrote: »

Why aren't they using the old M20 design then, if it was finished only 8 years ago?

Do you really believe that if the previous EIS/CPO & Design was resubmitted next year without any reappraisal it would get through ABP?

Kermit.de.frog

I wonder should there be a public enquiry in to this scheme and metro.


Both had design work done already and now for some reason we are having to waste further millions.


It's incredible waste of our money.

Sam Russell

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I wonder should there be a public enquiry in to this scheme and metro.


Both had design work done already and now for some reason we are having to waste further millions.


It's incredible waste of our money.

Meetrolink is an improvement on Metro North. We have yet to see the M20.

marno21

The redesign of the M20 is required as all the planning work has to be redone in accordance with the Public Spending Code and with DPER's new project appraisal requirements.

However, that doesn't explain why these planning jobs are not being adequately resourced by Government.

Kermit.de.frog

Sam Russell wrote: »

Meetrolink

That would have been a better name


TBH I don't care why. The fact is design work was done. Taxpayers money was spent on this scheme and yet here we are again.

Technicalities shouldn't matter.

That's just a waste of our money no matter what way one looks at it.

Kermit.de.frog

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I really fear for this project if it takes another 5 years to get it off the ground, Fine Gael have no interest in this contrary to what Varadkar is saying, Shane Ross is no better.

As for what Marno21 said about Fianna Fail, he was spot on, when they were in government there were road project in many places. All it takes is another recession and we're back to square one.

Has FG started and delivered any large scale project ever in the history of the state?

Serious question.

They are fiscally prudent (not a bad thing btw but in my view too prudent with infrastructure spending) and that means they will always be reluctant.

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That would have been a better name


TBH I don't care why. The fact is design work was done. Taxpayers money was spent on this scheme and yet here we are again.

Technicalities shouldn't matter.

That's just a waste of our money no matter what way one looks at it.

Metro North is heavily dependent on other parts of Transport 21 for connectivity (DART Underground especially). Metrolink is a far more useful scheme in isolation

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Has FG started and delivered any large scale project ever in the history of the state?

Serious question.

They are fiscally prudent (not a bad thing btw but in my view too prudent with infrastructure spending) and that means they will always be reluctant.

M17/M18, M11 Enniscorthy, N25 New Ross, Luas BXD in the last few years.

However, there is no excuse for the lack of exchequer funded schemes being delivered at present.

Cork Trucker

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Has FG started and delivered any large scale project ever in the history of the state?

Serious question.

They are fiscally prudent (not a bad thing btw but in my view too prudent with infrastructure spending) and that means they will always be reluctant.

They appear very prudent in certain aspects but hugely careless in other areas.

FF were wreckless, somewhere in between would be good.

This is delaying the M40 all the more, am i right that this is needed before the M40 or it is more feasible to build the M20 first?

The N20 is going to be neglected all the more while this rambles on, then there is the issue with the Waterloo junction, if they go with the LiLo system it will lead to potentially more accidents from those doing U-Turns.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

However, there is no excuse for the lack of exchequer funded schemes being delivered at present.

Can funding be sought from Europe for the motorway or are the Irish Government restricted in what they can apply for?

The exchequer is being strangled by Pascal, even the budget speech was bad enough. I think you mentioned already that he didn't need to raise the M20 in his budget speech?

Kermit.de.frog

Coveney mentioned, I think, he wanted the N40 and M20 built at the same time under the same contract.

Isambard

I couldn't be sure in the dark last night, but it looked as if the junction at Waterloo had been "rearranged" a bit more.

marno21

Isambard wrote: »

I couldn't be sure in the dark last night, but it looked as if the junction at Waterloo had been "rearranged" a bit more.

It's being permanently reopened as a left in left out junction afaik

marno21

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Can funding be sought from Europe for the motorway or are the Irish Government restricted in what they can apply for?

The exchequer is being strangled by Pascal, even the budget speech was bad enough. I think you mentioned already that he didn't need to raise the M20 in his budget speech?

I don't think so although I can't say I know too much about European infrastructural funding. Any funding would be loans anyway and I don't think it's needed. Ireland should be able to fund this on its own, funding is not an issue it's a lack of interest and adequate resourcing

If Pascal mentioned everything in the Budget he intended on spending pennies on in 2019 his budget speech would still be ongoing

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

It's being permanently reopened as a left in left out junction afaik

It’s a stupid decision IMO. You’ll have people doing u-turns in both directions to access the junction in a non LILO trajectory. Will be much more dangerous.

BelfastVanMan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s a stupid decision IMO. You’ll have people doing u-turns in both directions to access the junction in a non LILO trajectory. Will be much more dangerous.

Agreed.

Sadly, I give it a month before there's a serious smash.

I hope I'm wrong..

Kevwoody

BelfastVanMan wrote:

Sadly, I give it a month before there's a serious smash.

And I will lay the blame of that squarely at the feet of the protesters, and their ridiculously exaggerated claims of the detour length they would have to take.

This junction should remain closed for good.

AugustusMinimus

Kevwoody wrote: »

And I will lay the blame of that squarely at the feet of the protesters, and their ridiculously exaggerated claims of the detour length they would have to take.

This junction should remain closed for good.

I’d prefer to see traffic calming, a reduce speed limit around the junction and proper turning lanes.

I don’t see any real reason to closing this junction if it was properly configured.

Kevwoody

AugustusMinimus wrote:

I’d prefer to see traffic calming, a reduce speed limit around the junction and proper turning lanes.

AugustusMinimus wrote:

I don’t see any real reason to closing this junction if it was properly configured.

The side road itself is only about 200m long, with I think 3 houses. It then comes to a junction with the old Blarney road which runs alongside the N20.

This road is nothing more than a shortcut to the N20, there is no reason to spend thousands installing traffic calming when traffic can simply use the proper grade seperated junction a kilometre or so down the road in Blarney.

AugustusMinimus

Kevwoody wrote: »

The side road itself is only about 200m long, with I think 3 houses. It then comes to a junction with the old Blarney road which runs alongside the N20.

This road is nothing more than a shortcut to the N20, there is no reason to spend thousands installing traffic calming when traffic can simply use the proper grade seperated junction a kilometre or so down the road in Blarney.

It’s not just a kilometre or so though. It’s about 2 1/2 miles adding to a total round journey of 5 miles. Great altogether if you’re a cyclist or pedestrian.

Isambard

Kevwoody wrote: »

The side road itself is only about 200m long, with I think 3 houses. It then comes to a junction with the old Blarney road which runs alongside the N20.

This road is nothing more than a shortcut to the N20, there is no reason to spend thousands installing traffic calming when traffic can simply use the proper grade seperated junction a kilometre or so down the road in Blarney.

No it's actually a bodged replacement of the road from Waterloo to Whitechurch, severed when the new road was built and was, until closure, used by Waterloo residents to access the local National School and other facilities, necessitating a lengthy detour via country lanes or via Blarney and all it's traffic problems. You can see their point and there are dozens of more dangerous junctions that haven't been closed.
The re-instatement hasn't been agreed thus far as far as I know, just a LILO stated to be the minimum acceptable to locals and their Councillor.

Isambard

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s not just a kilometre or so though. It’s about 2 1/2 miles adding to a total round journey of 5 miles. Great altogether if you’re a cyclist or pedestrian.

Cyclists and pedestrians have no problem still using the junction, nor do 4x4's !

BelfastVanMan

Kevwoody wrote: »

And I will lay the blame of that squarely at the feet of the protesters, and their ridiculously exaggerated claims of the detour length they would have to take.

This junction should remain closed for good.

Absolutely.