M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

lansing

Isambard wrote: »

my view of putting drainage pipes in must be that they are widening the carriageway, otherwise wouldn't they just put it back as it was?

Access from Waterloo to the school in Whitechurch and back perfectly easy via two roads within a couple of hundred metres. It's visitors to/from Blarney likely to be the problem, especially if they have out of date satnav.

How is it easy to get from Whitechurch to Waterloo? Yes access is restored going from Waterloo to Whitechurch but the opposite direction still requires a trip via Blarney

Reputable Rog

[quote="marno21;109404348"

It's only a temporary fix until the M20 is built anyway.[/quote]

A bit like the USC soðŸ˜.

Reputable Rog

Reputable Rog wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

It's only a temporary fix until the M20 is built anyway.

A bit like the USC soðŸ˜.

I think the Hogarth flyover would be a more suitable metaphor, it's nearly 50 years old at this stage.

https://www.roads.org.uk/photo/hogarth-flyover

Isambard

lansing wrote: »

How is it easy to get from Whitechurch to Waterloo? Yes access is restored going from Waterloo to Whitechurch but the opposite direction still requires a trip via Blarney

no it doesn't , the route will be what it was originally, accessing the N20 just south of the Waterloo Junction and then turning left for Waterloo.

lansing

Isambard wrote: »

no it doesn't , the route will be what it was originally, accessing the N20 just south of the Waterloo Junction and then turning left for Waterloo.

You mean accessing the N20 at the Ballygibbon turn off south of Waterloo Junction and then turning RIGHT for Waterloo?

Yes that's possible but the Ballygibbon Rd is far too narrow to take traffic and two cars cannot pass side by side for long stretches. Plus the road from Ballynaraha towards the Ballygibbon turnoff is narrow and has sharp dips. On top of that locals has to cross two lanes of traffic on the N20 instead of what use to be one. It's not a viable solution

Isambard

but that's the way the traffic used to use that route and what they were protesting about. It's more direct than using the turning north of the Waterloo junction.

lansing

Isambard wrote: »

but that's the way the traffic used to use that route and what they were protesting about. It's more direct than using the turning north of the Waterloo junction.

No it's not the way the traffic used. Traffic between Whitechurch and Waterloo simply used the Waterloo junction south of the Mallow Rd and Whitechurch exit north of the Mallow Road. With Waterloo exit now one way it's no longer possible to use from Whitechurch to Waterloo. That's what the protest is about.

Isambard

that makes no sense.

lansing

Isambard wrote: »

that makes no sense.

Let me make it simpler for you

Waterloo -> N20 -> Whitechurch = allowed
Whitechurch -> N20 -> Waterloo = not allowed. Locals want this reopened to the way it always was for local traffic.

Limerick74

Can Whitechurch > N20 > Waterloo use this route?

Kevwoody

Limerick74 wrote:

Can Whitechurch > N20 > Waterloo use this route?

That would involve locals having to take a few extra minutes detour, I feel sorry for them.


Not as sorry though as the numerous families of people who have been killed there.

Kevwoody

lansing wrote:

Waterloo -> N20 -> Whitechurch = allowed Whitechurch -> N20 -> Waterloo = not allowed. Locals want this reopened to the way it always was for local traffic.

I'm sorry, but the locals can take a long running jump to themselves!

Are they prepared to have the blood of the victims of the next traffic collision on their hands?

Isambard

there's a perfectly acceptable alternative from Whitechurch to Waterloo by taking the Blarney road to just befoere the overbridge, and turning right, coming out to the N20 right at the Waterloo turning. If the locals are looking for anything other, they are being unreasonable.

corinthion

Limerick74 wrote: »

Can Whitechurch > N20 > Waterloo use this route?

jeess lads have ye ever been on that road before . if you had you would not be recommending it. Theres no way that road can take that amount of traffic

Isambard

corinthion wrote: »

jeess lads have ye ever been on that road before . if you had you would not be recommending it. Theres no way that road can take that amount of traffic

none of those roads are great, but it's just a few cars to and from the school, the suggested routes are no worse than the one said to be the original route

corinthion

Isambard wrote: »

none of those roads are great, but it's just a few cars to and from the school, the suggested routes are no worse than the one said to be the original route

have you traveled that road , its only fit for one car and before you come on to the N20 there is like a 90 degree bend thats dangerous . i know you are talking about a few cars but this is supposed to be a two way road . i didnt like driving on it myself the few times i had to . If your passing it soon take a drive up it..
i would agree with you the standard of roads around that area is terrible and maybe thats why the locals want the junction opened . while the roads been closed i travel the one that comes out further up the n20 (the glen road) and there is people driving around 100 km on it ..crazy stuff

Isambard

my point is there are (at least)two routes possible twixt Waterloo and Whitechurch without going via Blarney, one that they are happy to use and , apparently, one they aren't. They are both pretty much the same, poor quality country roads. I know both roads and have used them in times of need.

The point here is the junction is being re-opened, limited to LILO, which is the best compromise as far as I can see.

Reputable Rog

Coming home from the west of the city i often find myself due to traffic going via Courtbrack and into Grenagh or Annaleentha.
The road from Courtbrack to Grenagh isn't too bad and you can out at Rathduff having avoided the queue at Glencam.
Still a pain in the hole though.

lansing

Kevwoody wrote: »

That would involve locals having to take a few extra minutes detour, I feel sorry for them.


Not as sorry though as the numerous families of people who have been killed there.

That proposed route is exactly what I described earlier. Its nothing to do with it taking an extra few minutes.....its deadly dangerous, not capable of taking the proposed traffic and can't even take 2 cars side by side in stretches and involves crossing both lanes of the N20.

There is no viable alternative other than via Blarney.

This is a community that was split many years ago when the new Mallow Rd went ahead and is now further split with this proposal

niloc1951

Limerick74 wrote: »

Can Whitechurch > N20 > Waterloo use this route?

Doesn't that involve dealing with oncoming traffic from two directions. The original involved dealing only with oncoming traffic from one direction.

A solution I've seen many times in Europe is a P layout, here's an Irish q version on the N25

AugustusMinimus

Honestly, what is the issue with just putting in traffic calming measures and a 50kph limit around the junction. This isn’t rocket science.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Honestly, what is the issue with just putting in traffic calming measures and a 50kph limit around the junction. This isn’t rocket science.

It's against policy to affect the significant volume of traffic on the mainline in order to facilitate a smaller number of people using a minor road.

niloc1951

marno21 wrote: »

It's against policy to affect the significant volume of traffic on the mainline in order to facilitate a smaller number of people using a minor road.

Not elsewhere in Europe it isn't

marno21

niloc1951 wrote: »

Not elsewhere in Europe it isn't

Elsewhere in Europe this wouldn't even be an issue because the road would have been built to the right spec in the first place and there would have been an over/underbridge constructed here

Isambard

niloc1951 wrote: »

Doesn't that involve dealing with oncoming traffic from two directions. The original involved dealing only with oncoming traffic from one direction.

A solution I've seen many times in Europe is a P layout, here's an Irish q version on the N25

the issue with the junction was unfamiliar tourists , they wouldn't be using the junction just south of the Waterloo one so it shouldn't be a problem.

Your P suggestion involves crossing two lanes too .

Kevwoody

niloc1951 wrote:

Not elsewhere in Europe it isn't

Traffic is heavy enough on that stretch without adding a reduced speed limit and traffic calming measures.

steeler j

marno21 wrote: »

Elsewhere in Europe this wouldn't even be an issue because the road would have been built to the right spec in the first place and there would have been an over/underbridge constructed here

that's true,should have been done right in the first place

niloc1951

steeler j wrote: »

that's true,should have been done right in the first place

Have they ever done thing right first time round. They seem to design for today with no future proofing built in.
Think of, M50, N40, JLT, etc and all the LILO junctions which facilitated drivers heading down dual carriageways and motorways on the wrong side leading to death and carnage. However, after nearly 20 years they have now installed bollards at such junctions to prevent such events :rolleyes::mad:

AugustusMinimus

niloc1951 wrote: »

Have they ever done thing right first time round. They seem to design for today with no future proofing built in.
Think of, M50, N40, JLT, etc and all the LILO junctions which facilitated drivers heading down dual carriageways and motorways on the wrong side leading to death and carnage. However, after nearly 20 years they have now installed bollards at such junctions to prevent such events :rolleyes::mad:

M6 - M17 - M18 junction is by far the worst example. The current junction is probably more complicated and needed more earth moving than a free flow design and has significantly less capacity. Absolute insanity.

highwaymaniac

niloc1951 wrote: »

Have they ever done thing right first time round. They seem to design for today with no future proofing built in.
Think of, M50, N40, JLT, etc and all the LILO junctions which facilitated drivers heading down dual carriageways and motorways on the wrong side leading to death and carnage. However, after nearly 20 years they have now installed bollards at such junctions to prevent such events :rolleyes::mad:

I blame the accountants and economists in civil service. The way cost benefit assessments have to be done as mandated by them means no road will have a decent cost benefit especially outside heavily congested urban areas.