Changes in the GAA - super thread

Bass Reeves · 29-04-2019 12:18pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

How many teams go on them? And what real benefit are they?

Surely nothing can be got from them than the week in Bear Island or wherever.

Important too, that it doesn't stop teams getting holidays together if they do well.

Team training holidays have been scheduled over the April club period for this yeas and last year. It's a way of encouraging players away from clubs during this period . It reduces the window to have players available for club games. There is also the weaker sport factor where counties will schedule hurling and football competition's into this period thereby making county players who play the opposite sport to be unavailable. As well you had the sitution where players were by the way organizing these holidays themselves.

Bonniedog · 29-04-2019 12:28pm

Well, they shouldn't be doing that if it is the case.

Was interesting listening to O'Neill and the Kildare club managers and players who touched on availability yesterday when they were interviewed on TG4.

In fairness O'Neill seemed to see the recent league and championship games as a benefit although he referred to possibility of injuries. Kildare and other counties including Dublin and Cork and Kerry seem to have done a good job in April, but of course there will be long gap now till county champonships resume; late August at earliest for all three probably.

Which brings me back to one of my bugbears. Why is it that some of the counties who are well out of SHC and SFC by June or July, are the worst at organising their club programmes? They have no excuse.

Bass Reeves · 29-04-2019 11:33pm

Limerick has ran 2 rounds of there county championship in both football and hurling in senior and intermediate over 4 weekends as well as an extra round of games in there premier intermediate championship. The delay of a week because of the hurling league final had some hurling clubs playing a round of football championship without there county hurlers.
Most weaker counties managers are more worried about the first round of the all Ireland championship than later in the year. As well you have an issue with younger players going on J1's to the US and not back to August. But I agree clubs in counties have to demand change. They have to look for county championship being run a round Robin system.

Bonniedog · 29-04-2019 11:49pm

I left out Limerick but obviously they are a county that performs well in All Ireland championship, and manages to run a good county series. Same with Kilkenny.

Round robin is fairer in that it gives teams more of a chance by avoiding going out on one defeat, but was referred to several times yesterday that really the Kildare games are not going to count for much come August. Same is true of Kerry SFC. But better to be having games now, than none at all.

There have been some "shocks" in some counties, including Dublin, but those teams know they will be able to field stronger in a few months and qualify for the business end.

Bass Reeves · 30-04-2019 10:22am

Because of the way the Kerry County championship is run on a district basis Stacks may yet qualify to represent the County into the All Ireland series. If a district team wins the county championship Stacks represent Kerry. With Crokes starting to decline IMO it may well see Stacks go out into the All Ireland series.

threeball · 08-05-2019 9:17pm

The Handpass point just has to go. Just watched the highlights of mayo new York and mayo handpassed at least 10 points. It looks like crap, takes next to no skill and offer defenders almost no chance. It's no wonder defences have retreated so deep when you can literally Handpass the entire pitch length for a score.

Blinky Plebum · 31-05-2019 11:12pm

I rarely missed an Offaly football match from the mid nineties up until around 5 years ago.

I haven't been to a match in the last 5 years and don't think I'll bother going back anytime soon and the only football I’ll attend in the near future will be going to watch my club.

Truth is the game has gone to the dogs in recent years and the style of play and terrible competition structure is holding the game back massively. I now barely watch games on TV these days as most of them just end up disappointing me.

We need to finally come up with a proper competition structure and have the league being the main competition with playoffs at the end of the season.
One competition and a steady stream of games is a better way of selling the game to fans. Imagine watching a TV series which has one episode every three weeks and you can’t be sure how many episodes will be in the series, it would drive you mad but that is exactly what the GAA’s competition is like. A consistent stream of matches is how to get people interested and engaged in the GAA.

Also the GAA continue to make minor tweaks to footballs rules while ignoring the issue that everyone knows is killing the game which is the blanket defence, you don’t get rid of a weed by clipping the leaves you pull the roots up out of the ground. The blanket defence is what is causing football to decline and yet they just don’t do the sensible thing and simply make the tactic illegal by insisting on a certain number of players having to be in the attacking part of the field at all times, other sports have rules like this and they work fine so why the hell can’t the GAA .

There are bigger issues than Dublin dominance which although it is an issue when Dublin go away in a few years time and revert back to just being very good rather than unbelievably brilliant there will still be the issues I have stated above that will hold the game back.

Beechwoodspark · 10-06-2019 7:18pm

Ewan mckenna In his piece today suggests that Dublin will have to be split into 4.

“Yesterday an unexpected 36,000 showed up for a Leinster semi-final double header, meaning the place barely broke even. At the end of the last decade when Kildare and Dublin ran into each other, there were 74,572 in attendance in what the Irish Times suggested was "a slightly disappointing" crowd. That's the scale of this freefall.”

Well worth a read.

Beechwoodspark · 10-06-2019 8:30pm

The main thing is the huge huge advantages Dublin have over the rest of the country. Financial being the main one and also of course sheer numbers.

Ludicrously unfair.

I’d go so far to say Dublin have “doped” their way to success. I don’t mean by using banned substances but by financial means.

The phrase “throw your medals in the bin because you got them from cheating” sums it up well.

Jim G, The dubs team and fans know this but it’s taboo to admit it openly.

A good number admit as much when it is raised especially after the latest empty “win” and a few pints are had.

It will continue to ruin it until substantial reforms are implemented.

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 8:37pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The main thing is the huge huge advantages Dublin have over the rest of the country. Financial being the main one and also of course sheer numbers.

I’d go so far to say Dublin have “doped” their way to success. I don’t mean by using banned substances but by financial means.

The phrase “throw your medals in the bin because you got them from cheating” sums it up well.

The dubs team and fans know this but it’s taboo to admit it openly.

A good number admit as much when it is raised especially after the latest empty “win” and a few pints are had.

It will continue to ruin it until substantial reforms are implemented.

Just have a look at their accounts: http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Why is the county that has won 6 out of the last 8 All Ireland's receiving such funding far out of proportion to everyone else? Surely it's the teams who are struggling that should be getting the help?

Beechwoodspark · 10-06-2019 8:45pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

Just have a look at their accounts: http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Why is the county that has won 6 out of the last 8 All Ireland's receiving such funding far out of proportion to everyone else? Surely it's the teams who are struggling that should be getting the help?

Please Tell me that’s a joke admittedly in bad taste?

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 8:52pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Please Tell me that’s a joke admittedly in bad taste?

I believe they're official accounts. The only one that is freely available. Some of the figures are staggering.

rebel girl 15 · 10-06-2019 8:55pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

Just have a look at their accounts: http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Why is the county that has won 6 out of the last 8 All Ireland's receiving such funding far out of proportion to everyone else? Surely it's the teams who are struggling that should be getting the help?

Biggest county by numbers, therefore biggest jersey sale by numbers, therefore biggest amount paid by a sponsor.

31,750 Central Council Grant and 40,000 Leinster council grant - huge

Its basic geography - why are the USA leaders in so many sports? They have so many people to pick from. Dublin GAA like KK many years ago started investing in proper coaching structures in every club, and every age group. It took Cork 10 years to start their's, Kerry started their's a little sooner and so did many other counties.

20% year on year growth in the numbers playing in their nurseries tells its own story

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 9:01pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Biggest county by numbers, therefore biggest jersey sale by numbers, therefore biggest amount paid by a sponsor.

31,750 Central Council Grant and 40,000 Leinster council grant - huge

Its basic geography - why are the USA leaders in so many sports? They have so many people to pick from. Dublin GAA like KK many years ago started investing in proper coaching structures in every club, and every age group. It took Cork 10 years to start their's, Kerry started their's a little sooner and so did many other counties.

20% year on year growth in the numbers playing in their nurseries tells its own story

But it wasn't Dublin GAA that invested in the coaching structures, was it? Dublin have the biggest population but the funding they received was way out of proportion. I'm sure Cork, Kerry and everyone else would have invested sooner if they were given way over 1 million euros every year.
Also, the increase in sponsorship and jersey sales cooincided with the new found success which came off the back of the proper coaching structures which came off the back of the increase in funding.

rebel girl 15 · 10-06-2019 9:45pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

But it wasn't Dublin GAA that invested in the coaching structures, was it? Dublin have the biggest population but the funding they received was way out of proportion. I'm sure Cork, Kerry and everyone else would have invested sooner if they were given way over 1 million euros every year.
Also, the increase in sponsorship and jersey sales cooincided with the new found success which came off the back of the proper coaching structures which came off the back of the increase in funding.

What was started in Dublin so many years ago was a pilot programme - the whole thing started in the schools, that was the only way it was would be funded through the Dept of Finance - how many other counties have approached the Dept of Finance for that sort of funding - probably can't now as back then GAA HQ had no interest in that sort of thing, only funding the rebuild of Croker, then decided to jump on the band wagon.

It's now up to other counties to get up to that level - pretty sure Mayo are like half way down that games development list, haven't done too badly in recent years

nice_guy80 · 10-06-2019 9:54pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

What was started in Dublin so many years ago was a pilot programme - the whole thing started in the schools, that was the only way it was would be funded through the Dept of Finance - how many other counties have approached the Dept of Finance for that sort of funding - probably can't now as back then GAA HQ had no interest in that sort of thing, only funding the rebuild of Croker, then decided to jump on the band wagon.

It's now up to other counties to get up to that level - pretty sure Mayo are like half way down that games development list, haven't done too badly in recent years

Yes, as if no other county has asked for money! Or put a coaching plan together.

Counties like Roscommon have had coaches going into schools for over 20 years.

Other counties in Leinster have looked for money but have been rebuffed.
Imagine there is no gaa urban development officer funded outside of Dublin. Considering all the large towns and cities, that is kind of startling

rebel girl 15 · 10-06-2019 10:00pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Yes, as if no other county has asked for money! Or put a coaching plan together.

Counties like Roscommon have had coaches going into schools for over 20 years.

Other counties in Leinster have looked for money but have been rebuffed.
Imagine there is no gaa urban development officer funded outside of Dublin. Considering all the large towns and cities, that is kind of startling

Plenty of GAA development officers that are funded outside of Dublin. I know the Cork structure wasn't put in for ages!

I'd like to see your evidence of that claim other counties in Leinster have looked for the money and were rebuffed - sure when Bertie put the thing in place he said exactly the same thing about Kerry - doing it in the schools. Dublin have just done it better.

Gael85 · 10-06-2019 10:03pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Yes, as if no other county has asked for money! Or put a coaching plan together.

Counties like Roscommon have had coaches going into schools for over 20 years.

Other counties in Leinster have looked for money but have been rebuffed.
Imagine there is no gaa urban development officer funded outside of Dublin. Considering all the large towns and cities, that is kind of startling

Have you a link for this? John Costello said the only county to approach Dublin about their coaching model was Limerick.

nice_guy80 · 10-06-2019 10:12pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Have you a link for this? John Costello said the only county to approach Dublin about their coaching model was Limerick.

Plenty of county committees have looked for funding from Leinster GAA and GAA HQ
They did up their own coaching plans but were told there was no money

nice_guy80 · 10-06-2019 10:16pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Plenty of GAA development officers that are funded outside of Dublin. I know the Cork structure wasn't put in for ages!

I'd like to see your evidence of that claim other counties in Leinster have looked for the money and were rebuffed - sure when Bertie put the thing in place he said exactly the same thing about Kerry - doing it in the schools. Dublin have just done it better.

No.
Dublin got matching funding for every full time coach attached to a club.
It's a completely different model of development.
Coach is attached to a club, they do regular visits to schools, recruit kid's for clubs, helps run nursery and coaching in the club.

The coaches in every other county delivering any coaching done in schools do so on a part time or voluntary basis.

Fann Linn · 10-06-2019 10:17pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Plenty of county committees have looked for funding from Leinster GAA and GAA HQ
They did up their own coaching plans but were told there was no money

Any links?

Gael85 · 10-06-2019 10:33pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Plenty of county committees have looked for funding from Leinster GAA and GAA HQ
They did up their own coaching plans but were told there was no money

Surely you must have a link to this so??

Fann Linn · 10-06-2019 10:37pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Surely you must have a link to this so??

The missing link.

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 11:21pm

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

What was started in Dublin so many years ago was a pilot programme - the whole thing started in the schools, that was the only way it was would be funded through the Dept of Finance - how many other counties have approached the Dept of Finance for that sort of funding - probably can't now as back then GAA HQ had no interest in that sort of thing, only funding the rebuild of Croker, then decided to jump on the band wagon.

It's now up to other counties to get up to that level - pretty sure Mayo are like half way down that games development list, haven't done too badly in recent years

A pilot programme? :pac: A pilot programme that worked so well but then for some inexplicable reason it wasn't put into place in any other county? Are you for real? That's not a pilot programme. Let's not play silly games here. This funding was not available for any other county then or since. Obviously it only got the go ahead because disgraced former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was in power. Also it was only backed by the GAA because they saw an opportunity to increase their profits, a successful Dublin meant increased revenue.

Look at the accounts I've linked. It says 2.7 million under their games development section. 2.7 million or thereabouts since 2005 while other counties were getting 50,000 for some years. How are the others meant to catch up? Dublin have won 6 All Ireland's in 8 years yet the money still flows in. In fact, it's increased over the years with their sponsorship boost off the back of the tax payers injection of cash. So this pilot programme which has been ongoing for 14 years now, continues unabated but still only the one county is testing it out. Pilot programme? This has to be the funniest thing yet. :pac: Do you even know what a pilot programme is?

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 11:32pm

What's this nonsense? You think no other county has gone to Croke Park with a plan and to look for funding? Are you people living in reality at all? This funding was not and is not available for other counties. The clubs paying half for a full time coach is not an option. It's a Dublin only thing. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is not some anti Dublin campaign. The obscene amount of money Dublin have received for 14 years now is real. It has changed them from also rans to unstoppable. This is not up for debate. This is fact. No Dublin supporter will accept this, fine. The rest of us don't have to go along with you lying to yourselves. We can't just let this continue. And by the way, we can't let Kerry, Mayo or anyone else buy success either. All counties need to be brought into line.

Oh and for the link: https://www.the42.ie/cheddar-plunkett-laois-dublin-hurling-2198968-Jul2015/

Don't for one second think he was the only one that had the door slammed in his face when looking for funding either.

Bonniedog · 10-06-2019 11:44pm

your link does not prove anything about Laois looking for funding for coaching. Hard to know what he is talking about to be honest. some business promotion aspect?

Anyway, Laois has paid coaches and has Eddie Brennan who is involved because of his undying love for Laois hurling...…..

Farawayhome · 10-06-2019 11:53pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

your link does not prove anything about Laois looking for funding for coaching. Hard to know what he is talking about to be honest. some business promotion aspect?

Anyway, Laois has paid coaches and has Eddie Brennan who is involved because of his undying love for Laois hurling...…..

"I’ve presented it to enough people at GAA headquarters and everywhere else I can do it.

But for some reason they just close their eyes to this and that is just incredibly disappointing."

Pretty easy to understand, he went everywhere looking for funding, no help was forthcoming, GAA headquarters slammed the door in his face. And as I said, Laois weren't the only county.

Payment of managers needs to be stopped but lets tell it as it is. What some counties pay for managers, Dublin pay for one of their extensive backroom team.

rebel girl 15 · 11-06-2019 8:27am

nice_guy80 wrote: »

No.
Dublin got matching funding for every full time coach attached to a club.
It's a completely different model of development.
Coach is attached to a club, they do regular visits to schools, recruit kid's for clubs, helps run nursery and coaching in the club.

The coaches in every other county delivering any coaching done in schools do so on a part time or voluntary basis.

Yeah they did but it wasn’t from the GAA and it wasn’t necessarily attached to a club either - it was the Department of Finance as that was the only way they would get the funding if it was done through the schools. It was done as a pilot scheme and then the GAA took over the funding of it. Clubs pay part of the salary of that development officer to do that role. There are plenty of coaches who are full time around the country that are paid to go into schools - some of it has to be “part time” as the schools are only in for certain hours but I very much doubt that it is voluntary. That was happening 20 years ago in most counties where coaches got paid to coach in primary schools especially - and it was even stated as a reason for starting the programme in Dublin - there was a quote about what Kerry were doing.

When this was very first being set up, Dublin with the biggest population had a very poor number of players for the number of people living in the area - the GAA were publicly worried about the drop off of playing numbers in the capital but privately about the bottom line - more player, more membership equals more money for them

blanch152 · 11-06-2019 1:33pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Plenty of county committees have looked for funding from Leinster GAA and GAA HQ
They did up their own coaching plans but were told there was no money

Coaching plans? Or back of the envelope scribbles?

Have you any links to these coaching plans, and to their rejection.

Pogue eile · 11-06-2019 2:23pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Coaching plans? Or back of the envelope scribbles?

Have you any links to these coaching plans, and to their rejection.

How in the name of god would he have a link to a detailed development plan even if such thing did exist? Do you honestly think that a County Board would make such a plan public??

Another feckin thread ruined by Dublin v the rest crap :rolleyes:

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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