Changes in the GAA - super thread

Bonniedog

Farawayhome wrote: »

Do you think it's right when other counties buy All Ireland's or only when Dublin do it?

I don't think either Limerick or Dublin bought their All Irelands.

Perhaps this is something you might share with Limerick supporters. Give us all a break from your Dublin obsession?

ToBeFrank123

Farawayhome wrote: »

I've said it before but we have a perfect example of what works and what doesn't work. All we have to do is look at the hurling. The tiered championship hasn't improved the standard in counties such as Offaly. They fell down to tier 2 and they cannot get back up. Their standard began to match those they played regularly.
On the other hand, Dublin were way behind the level of Offaly. They received huge resources, this led to a big increase in their standards. They won a national league and a provincial championship. They now compete at the top level. Also, the crowds they used to get were tiny, they increased by huge amounts with the increased success.
So not only does funding work, you also get a return off it. This is clearly what should be happening. Tiered championships are nonsense.

I'd agree with that. Changing the structure is only tinkering to be fair, and the long term issue is redistributing funding. Unlikely to happen though, so the AI will continue to whither and go the way of the Leinster Championship.

Pogue eile

Farawayhome wrote: »

Are you from Dublin?

I am sorry to dissapoint you but no, just not blinded by an irrational hatred of anothers success.

Farawayhome

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't think either Limerick or Dublin bought their All Irelands.

Perhaps this is something you might share with Limerick supporters. Give us all a break from your Dublin obsession?

It's not a Dublin obsession, it's a fair play obsession.

Limerick have boosted their standings hugely off the back of JP's chequebook. This is not right. I have already discussed the finances of Mayo, Kerry and others. It is all wrong. They are nowhere near the level of Dublin but it still has to be stopped.

Why not have a fair and equatable system for all? What have you got against that?

Farawayhome

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'd agree with that. Changing the structure is only tinkering to be fair, and the long term issue is redistributing funding. Unlikely to happen though, so the AI will continue to whither and go the way of the Leinster Championship.

Of course, it's completely predictable and inevitable. That's why something has to be done and soon.

Farawayhome

Pogue eile wrote: »

I am sorry to dissapoint you but no, just not blinded by an irrational hatred of anothers success.

You have a similar level of paranoia is all.

BloodyBill

Guys Iv seen the make up of this fixtures committee. Wheres the diversity? All white men over 35!! Titiana McGrath will be fuming

Jaden

It's worse than that, some of them are reputedly from Dublin

ToBeFrank123

I wouldn't be suprised if all of them were from Dublin at this stage!

bucketybuck

Pogue eile wrote: »

So you dont have a problem with the structure, the promotion of the competition, the proposal to introduce a tiered championship etc etc you have a problem with Dublin full stop.................at least you finally came out and said it!

In fairness, if nobody can find a structure that works when Dublin are included, then it makes it pretty obvious that there might be a bit of problem there...

ToBeFrank123

Pogue eile wrote: »

Amazing that the only two posters singing off the same hymn sheet and likeing each others posts, have an identical post count..........creepy :rolleyes:

Is this the level your posting at now?
I don't know the other poster. But its hardly surprising that two posters would agree about Dublin dominance now is it? Its hardly the best kept secret. Most GAA supporters agree its a problem.

Where did you say you were from again?

Jaden

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I wouldn't be suprised if all of them were from Dublin at this stage!

If that was the case, there wouldn't be a problem..

Pogue eile

bucketybuck wrote: »

In fairness, if nobody can find a structure that works when Dublin are included, then it makes it pretty obvious that there might be a bit of problem there...

Exactly, the rest of the counties need to get the finger out and reach the bar being set by Dublin.

Pogue eile

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Is this the level your posting at now?
I don't know the other poster. But its hardly surprising that two posters would agree about Dublin dominance now is it? Its hardly the best kept secret. Most GAA supporters agree its a problem.

Where did you say you were from again?

I'm not sure why you are winking at me, you seem very strange.

Where I am from has absolutely no bearing on this discussion, not it would take Columbo to find out, but I am a Tipp man.

Farawayhome

https://www.gaa.ie/news/sure-renews-as-the-gaa-s-statistic-partner/

ToBeFrank123

Pogue eile wrote: »

Exactly, the rest of the counties need to get the finger out and reach the bar being set by Dublin.

Its been pointed out that this is impossible for most counties. Even bigger counties like Mayo, Kerry and Galway have issues getting to the bar set by Dublin.

Galway are missing Paul Conroy and Damian Comer. This could well spell the difference between success and failure in the championship. If Kerry lost Clifford, they'd be finished. Mayo are without Tom Parsons, a huge player for them and also Diarmuid O'Connor.

They simply don't have the depth of talent or numbers that Dublin have who could afford to lose 4 or 5 keys players and still win an AI. There's other factors too, mainly that while most if not all Dublin players live in Dublin, a lot of players from other counties live outside their own county.

Also home advantage in key games.
And the spend on development coaches.
And the need to pay for their own county ground development.
And so on and so forth.

While reaching the same bar as Dublin is a noble aspiration, its virtually impossible for some and definitely impossible for most. A Carlow or a Leitrim cannot simply magic up thousands of good players to choose from or millions in development funds.

Farawayhome

Farawayhome wrote: »

Did you see the whippings handed out in the super 8's?

4 of the 5 greatest winning margins in QF history have come in the last 4 years, and not one of them have involved Dublin. But sure you go ahead and keep trotting out that Sylvester's annual report there like it's some sort of smoking gun.

Quarter final winning margins
The five most one sided All-Ireland Quarter-Finals and their margins of victory:
27 points – 2015: Kerry 7-16 – 0-10 Kildare
22 points – 2017: Mayo 4-19 – 0-09 Roscommon
19 points - 2003: Tyrone 1-21 - 0-05 Fermanagh
18 points – 2017: Tyrone 3-17 – 0-08 Armagh
18 points – 2018: Tyrone 4-24 – 2-12 Roscommon

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship_records_and_statistics

ToBeFrank123

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its been pointed out that this is impossible for most counties. Even bigger counties like Mayo, Kerry and Galway have issues getting to the bar set by Dublin.

It has also been pointed out that the likes of Mayo receive as much as, if not more than, Dublin in funding and have squandered it......despite not having to split the money with a hurling team.

But that doesn't fit the narrative. Too much sour grapes, people desperate to try to validate the theory that the current crop should have a * beside each of their achievements, instead of appreciating what is, without question, the greatest football side in the history of the competition.

ToBeFrank123

Deleted User wrote: »

It has also been pointed out that the likes of Mayo receive as much as, if not more than, Dublin in funding and have squandered it......despite not having to split the money with a hurling team.

But that doesn't fit the narrative. Too much sour grapes, people desperate to try to validate the theory that the current crop should have a * beside each of their achievements, instead of appreciating what is, without question, the greatest football side in the history of the competition.

Mayo unfortunately like many other counties have large debts related to developing their own county ground.

Dublin on the otherhand got a brand spanking new 82,000 stadium handed to them free of charge. No debt overhang, no cutbacks required and the money they saved can be put into player development. But hey lets just ignore that. Nothing to see here.

And Mayo don't have a hurling team? News to me!

This isn't really about begrudgery, I've said Dublin have done well. Its really about pointing out the AI has become a farce of a competition.

Ww can talk about changes but its still going to be a farce as long as one county has huge advantages over another.

I wouldn't expect Dublin supporters to be objective about this by the way, it was never their strong point bar the odd exception.

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

4 of the 5 greatest winning margins in QF history have come in the last 4 years, and not one of them have involved Dublin. But sure you go ahead and keep trotting out that Sylvester's annual report there like it's some sort of smoking gun.



Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship_records_and_statistics

You completely miss the point. The Dublin county board annual accounts show the level of spending Dublin have been doing and the amount of money they've been handed. This is what is wrong and what must change. The results of this are secondary. It would be wrong if Dublin won 0 All Ireland's.
Of course, the level of funding has led to increased success because how could it not? This increased success is across the board. It's not just Dublin senior footballers. Their hurlers, underage in both codes, club competitions and womes Gaelic Games have all seen dramatic improvements.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html

Here is how much your county spent on its teams

No mention of stadia in that article. I accept your point about the hurling team though.

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

It has also been pointed out that the likes of Mayo receive as much as, if not more than, Dublin in funding and have squandered it......despite not having to split the money with a hurling team.

But that doesn't fit the narrative. Too much sour grapes, people desperate to try to validate the theory that the current crop should have a * beside each of their achievements, instead of appreciating what is, without question, the greatest football side in the history of the competition.

You obviously didn't read the Dublin annual accounts provided to us by St Sylvesters. Dublin were receiving 1.5 million in games development funding while Mayo were receiving under 100,000. And again, this isn't just about the Dublin senior footballers.

Farawayhome

Farawayhome wrote: »

You completely miss the point. The Dublin county board annual accounts show the level of spending Dublin have been doing and the amount of money they've been handed. This is what is wrong and what must change. The results of this are secondary. It would be wrong if Dublin won 0 All Ireland's.
Of course, the level of funding has led to increased success because how could it not? This increased success is across the board. It's not just Dublin senior footballers. Their hurlers, underage in both codes, club competitions and womes Gaelic Games have all seen dramatic improvements.

You keep brandishing that Sylvester's report as if it is the be all and end all dirty secret that has been swept under the rug while you refuse (or DONTMATTER did) to take into account any other documented source of funding like it is some big conspiracy.

Isn't that report based on number of participants?
Isn't there a separate development grant that every county EXCEPT Dublin gets?

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html




No mention of stadia in that article. I accept your point about the hurling team though.

That's for one year and you need to read the Dublin annual accounts for their total spend. The figures from that article are high for some counties because of travel expenses. Dublin don't have them.

Farawayhome

Farawayhome wrote: »

You obviously didn't read the Dublin annual accounts provided to us by St Sylvesters. Dublin were receiving 1.5 million in games development funding while Mayo were receiving under 100,000. And again, this isn't just about the Dublin senior footballers.

Population of greater Dublin area = 1,900,000
Population of Mayo = 130,000

Assuming similar levels of participation, a 15-fold increase in funding per child is reasonable in that context, no?

ToBeFrank123

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html




No mention of stadia in that article. I accept your point about the hurling team though.

Well there is more to spending than just on the senior team. Player development and development officers and so on play a big role in the current and future success of a team.

Dublin are currently reaping the rewards of massive investments at underage which other counties can't even dream of, in fact if I'm not mistaken they received more funding from the GAA for this than all other counties combined.

I'm not going to harp on about the imbalances. It would just be nice sometimes if people recognised they exist and this would be the starting point for some kind of reform that returns credibility to the AI as a reasonably fair and balanced competition where its not safe to put one county's name on the cup at the start of the year as appears to be happening now.

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

You keep brandishing that Sylvester's report as if it is the be all and end all dirty secret that has been swept under the rug while you refuse (or DONTMATTER did) to take into account any other documented source of funding like it is some big conspiracy.

Isn't that report based on number of participants?
Isn't there a separate development grant that every county EXCEPT Dublin gets?

Those accounts are the only one's available to the public. No other proof of the level of spending Dublin GAA partake in is available. I don't know what you're talking about in the second part of your sentence. What other documented source of funding?

Then what report are you talking about and what's the separate development grant?

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

Population of greater Dublin area = 1,900,000
Population of Mayo = 130,000

Assuming similar levels of participation, a 15-fold increase in funding per child is reasonable in that context, no?

Are you including population from other counties with Dublin's? Why are you doing that?

If it was going on population then wouldn't Cork and Antrim be getting about half of what Dublin were and are getting? They got nowhere near that.

Farawayhome

Farawayhome wrote: »

Those accounts are the only one's available to the public. No other proof of the level of spending Dublin GAA partake in is available.

http://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/je7qwufpj4sdujrbz0xb.pdf

The GAA's own annual report for 2016 states the Development grant was 1.4m
(page 150)

Farawayhome

Deleted User wrote: »

http://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/je7qwufpj4sdujrbz0xb.pdf

The GAA's own annual report for 2016 states the Development grant was 1.4m
(page 150)

The games development funding is clearly available, the Dublin annual accounts shows the level of spending across the board. Did you read it?