Changes in the GAA - super thread

Norm Peterson

Bonniedog wrote: »

Typical sleeveen crap.

Get the word doping in!

Fact is that Mayo and other senior teams have spent more on their senior teams than Dublin in several years.

That's who fkn contests the AI. Not the under 12s and under 14s.

Fact is that people like you just hate Dublin. not just the team, but Dublin in general; its people, history (without which you would all be carrying passports with a crown on it), literature, music and so on.

You want to play the snivelling anti Dub well I make no apologies for being proud of my county and its history. And no apologies to anyone

I think most people in this debate are more concerned with having a more competitive championship than it being an example of hating Dublin for the sake of it.

gaffer91

Bonniedog wrote: »

Typical sleeveen crap.

Get the word doping in!

Fact is that Mayo and other senior teams have spent more on their senior teams than Dublin in several years.

That's who fkn contests the AI. Not the under 12s and under 14s.

Fact is that people like you just hate Dublin. not just the team, but Dublin in general; its people, history (without which you would all be carrying passports with a crown on it), literature, music and so on.

You want to play the snivelling anti Dub well I make no apologies for being proud of my county and its history. And no apologies to anyone

Drop the victim complex. While I agree that Dublin is a kip, I've no animosity towards Dubs themselves. People just want to ensure a level playing field.

Once again, money spent on underage players and other areas does help the senior side, just not immediately.

Bonniedog

gaffer91 wrote: »

Drop the victim complex. While I agree that Dublin is a kip, I've no animosity towards Dubs themselves. People just want to ensure a level playing field.

Once again, money spent on underage players and other areas does help the senior side, just not immediately.

Why would someone of the city of Bernard Brogan, Jimmy Keaveney, James Joyce, Luke Kelly and so on and so forth have a victim complex

seligehgit

Mod Warning

Can parties on both sides of the argument debate in a constructive manner.The thread is in danger of yet again descending along normal tribal lines with no meaningful exchange of views.

Just because a poster has a diametrically opposing opinion to that of yours on this subject matter does not mean they are necessarily hostile to your county.

I will be reviewing some posts and some posters would be well advised to do same.

Dots1982

I’m still waiting on an answer to my question about which intercounty teams spent more than Dublin apart from Mayo as your post claims.

Anyway, most Dublin fans do what they should do with the funding issue- deny deny deny. It’s a policy that’s served them well. They can hide behind the reality that the GAA is so complex in terms of national and provincial level finances and the accounts of individual county boards rarely get published . I don’t care about trying to persuade some Dub to see reality when they have no interest in actually getting to the bottom line of the figures each county receives and just wants to follow the trusted path of complete denial.

Dublin have won GAA at Leinster level. It’s over, Dublin are the best team period. No one is ever going to beat them. The crowds are reflecting that and will continue to reflect that.

No debates about funding will ever change how the GAA do their business so effectively everyone here is wasting their time.

What will change how the GAA is ran is when they see no one is going to matches and croker is half empty for all Ireland’s semis or finals are left with tickets unsold.

I don’t care about arguing with Dubs. They have won this debate. They have taken the rest of the country, the GAA and the GAA media for being fools.

But debates don’t matter, ticket sales do.

OldMrBrennan83

Dublin's dominance may well be a factor in dropping attendances, but it definitely isn't the only one.

Dots1982

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Dublin's dominance may well be a factor in dropping attendances, but it definitely isn't the only one.

It’s the main one. If your team qualifies for Leinster final or all ireland semi and you know that really you have almost no chance of winning it ... why bother go to the earlier rounds? Because you know in the end you’re only there as cannon fodder so why bother.

It used to be any team in an all ireland semi could win Sam. But that’s not the case anymore.

People in most countys outside Dublin don’t give a suffering ****e if their county wins an all ireland or Leinster scoring 2 points a game playing eyesore football. But you take away a county’s dream to ever win a Sam or a Leinster and people will just opt out.

OldMrBrennan83

Dublin aren't making a lot of teams play absolute muck from an entertainment standpoint. Whatever about winning, if people aren't entertained (or worse, are annoyed and bored) they won't go.

Dots1982

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Dublin aren't making a lot of teams play absolute muck from an entertainment standpoint. Whatever about winning, if people aren't entertained (or worse, are annoyed and bored) they won't go.

Sorry but you’re simply wrong.

Donegal played to packed houses in croker from the quarter finals on in the year they won the all ireland. Did the masses go because they loved the style of football? Did 81000 go to the infamous Dublin donegal semi in 2011 because they were mesmerized by donegals defensive masterclass?

Same with Tyrone when they were playing “puke football”.

If you think a county’s fans give two hoots for the quality of football when their team could win an all ireland doing it then you don’t understand football fans in any county outside Dublin and Kerry.

Fann Linn

Dots1982 wrote: »

It’s the main one. If your team qualifies for Leinster final or all ireland semi and you know that really you have almost no chance of winning it ... why bother go to the earlier rounds? Because you know in the end you’re only there as cannon fodder so why bother.

It used to be any team in an all ireland semi could win Sam. But that’s not the case anymore.

People in most countys outside Dublin don’t give a suffering ****e if their county wins an all ireland or Leinster scoring 2 points a game playing eyesore football. But you take away a county’s dream to ever win a Sam or a Leinster and people will just opt out.

Equally applies to Kerry and Munster.

Dots1982

Fann Linn wrote: »

Equally applies to Kerry and Munster.

Applies but not equally. Munster football was at its best a contest between kerry and cork with Limerick pushing. Leinster at its best was a race between 5 or 6 counties who could beat each other.

Now kerry will win the next 5 Munsters but it’s not dead. Cork will eventually come back. Leinster football is dead.

gaffer91

Dots1982 wrote: »

Now kerry will win the next 5 Munsters but it’s not dead. Cork will eventually come back. Leinster football is dead.

And the All- Ireland is heading the same way.

This is why the "what about Kilkenny" argument doesn't hold up. First off, they never had the funding and other advantages that Dublin currently have. And secondly, it was always obvious that their reign would eventually come to an end.

As other people have pointed out, this isn't "one great side"- there's terrific new players coming on board every year for Dublin and this doesn't look like it's going to end.

Jaden

Dots1982 wrote: »

Applies but not equally. Munster football was at its best a contest between kerry and cork with Limerick pushing. Leinster at its best was a race between 5 or 6 counties who could beat each other.

Now kerry will win the next 5 Munsters but it’s not dead. Cork will eventually come back. Leinster football is dead.

I think it is fair to say the Munster Championship was never fully alive to begin with.
130 Years Running, Kerry have won 80 of them.

Between Cork and Kerry they have won all but 1 of the last 83 Munster titles.
Munster has not been anything except a toss up between Kerry and Cork in almost a century.

Limerick, whom you reference as "pushing" last won Munster in 1896, when Queen Victoria was still on the throne.

Kerry are going for 9 titles of the last 10 this year, and I see no reason that that won't be 14 of the last 15 five years from now, given that Cork are going backwards at an alarming rate.

Both Provinces are extremely one sided currently, of that there is no doubt, but only one of them has even a vague possibility of reversing the status quo, and it ain't Munster.

Dots1982

Jaden wrote: »

I think it is fair to say the Munster Championship was never fully alive to begin with.
130 Years Running, Kerry have won 80 of them.

Between Cork and Kerry they have won all but 1 of the last 83 Munster titles.
Munster has not been anything except a toss up between Kerry and Cork in almost a century.

Limerick, whom you reference as "pushing" last won Munster in 1896, when Queen Victoria was still on the throne.

Kerry are going for 9 titles of the last 10 this year, and I see no reason that that won't be 14 of the last 15 five years from now, given that Cork are going backwards at an alarming rate.

Both Provinces are extremely one sided currently, of that there is no doubt, but only one of them has even a vague possibility of reversing the status quo, and it ain't Munster.

Nah, Leinster football is RIP. Dublin have won GAA in the province. The interest is gone in both the fans and players in Kildare and Meath don’t have enough talent coming through. Meath’s one minor Leinster championship this decade does not compete with Dublin’s 4 all Ireland under 21 titles this decade. It’s not war anymore, it’s just servitude.

Cork will always have population and tradition so will eventually get their act together and be a threat again. They have a truly terrible team at the moment but GAA is a numbers game so they’ll always be in play.

Be well and win

Dots1982 wrote: »

Which other senior teams apart from Mayo have spent more than Dublin in several years?

Full list for all intercounty teams (in Hurling and football) for 2017 is here. Cork would be impacted by mileage rates due to the size of the county

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html

Perifect

What's with these team expenses lists? These are based mostly on travel costs so clearly Dublin are getting more than their fair share. The real scandal is the games development funding, this is where there's a huge gap between Dublin and everyone else.

Bonniedog

We could go into fact that of the top spending teams only Dublin and Cork and Galway have been competitive across all GAA sports at all levels. Which means that others are spending disproportionately on their senior football and senior hurling teams than others. Another figure that has been previously linked.

Armagh is one that jumps out at me. That is large amount on, one presumes, almost exclusively a pretty mediocre senior football team. But, that is their business.

Perifect

Bonniedog wrote: »

We could go into fact that of the top spending teams only Dublin and Cork and Galway have been competitive across all GAA sports at all levels. Which means that others are spending disproportionately on their senior football and senior hurling teams than others. Another figure that has been previously linked.

Armagh is one that jumps out at me. That is large amount on, one presumes, almost exclusively a pretty mediocre senior football team. But, that is their business.

Dublin don't have anywhere near the travel expenses of other counties, what are they spending that money on? This money is, of course, separate from the 35 million in games development funding, isn't it?

Bonniedog

Armagh is not exactly fkn Alaska :-)

Perifect

Bonniedog wrote: »

Armagh is not exactly fkn Alaska :-)

That's the year they got to the All Ireland quarter final. Are you just going to ignore any questions about Dublin? Honestly, I'd be far more surprised if a Dublin supporter gave a straight answer.

MayoAreMagic

This notion that other senior teams spend more than Dublin do is just plain disingenuous. The years Mayo spent more than Dublin, they played far more games than Dublin due to their route through the back door and various replays etc. Dublin still spent more per game than anyone, by a mile.
That is on top of the fact that mayo require multiples of the fixed costs it takes to get the dublin team onto the pitch.

It is a knowingly dishonest point. For anyone to make this point and then try to high horse about Ewan McKenna, is laughable.

Perifect

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

This notion that other senior teams spend more than Dublin do is just plain disingenuous. The years Mayo spent more than Dublin, they played far more games than Dublin due to their route through the back door and various replays etc. Dublin still spent more per game than anyone, by a mile.
That is on top of the fact that mayo require multiples of the fixed costs it takes to get the dublin team onto the pitch.

It is a knowingly dishonest point. For anyone to make this point and then try to high horse about Ewan McKenna, is laughable.

It's really disappointing. I've never heard one Dub in the media or anywhere just state the obvious. This is extremely unfair. It's not right. Everyone knows it's not right. The county with the greatest natural advantages is getting by far the most financial resources. It should be the other way round, the county that's the most disadvantaged should be getting the highest assistance.

Bonniedog

Perifect wrote: »

It's really disappointing. I've never heard one Dub in the media or anywhere just state the obvious. This is extremely unfair. It's not right. Everyone knows it's not right. The county with the greatest natural advantages is getting by far the most financial resources. It should be the other way round, the county that's the most disadvantaged should be getting the highest assistance.

You sound like a bit of a red.

From our cold dead hands, I say!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5WJJVSE_BE

Perifect

Bonniedog wrote: »

You sound like a bit of a red.

From our cold dead hands, I say!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5WJJVSE_BE

The communists are out to get us! Reds under the bed. The GAA should be a socialist organisation in fairness. The sickening capitalism is destroying the organisation.

gaffer91

Perifect wrote: »

It's really disappointing. I've never heard one Dub in the media or anywhere just state the obvious. This is extremely unfair. It's not right. Everyone knows it's not right. The county with the greatest natural advantages is getting by far the most financial resources. It should be the other way round, the county that's the most disadvantaged should be getting the highest assistance.

I agree- I haven't spoken to a single Dub online or in person who can analyse things in an unbiased way and acknowledge the unfair advantages they have, and the need to remedy these advantages. They're happy for the inter- county game to decline so they can continue to dominate.

You even see it with the obfuscation over the last few pages about spending- just a total failure to acknowledge Dublin receive much more funding than every other county and benefit from this county.

Ewan Mackenna touched on the Mayo vs Dublin 2017 spending one year in an interview with Dunphy- basically cited catering and mileage as skewing things massively upwards for Mayo. Nothing like the financial doping Dublin have had.

Bonniedog

give it a fkn rest.

gaffer91

Bonniedog wrote: »

give it a fkn rest.

I will once people stop defending it and things are remedied

OldMrBrennan83

gaffer91 wrote: »

I will once people stop defending it and things are remedied

Or until your county starts winning at least.

gaffer91

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Or until your county starts winning at least.

Nah- Dublin's financial doping needs to be addressed regardless of who wins.

Unlikely they'll stop winning the way things are anyway.

MayoAreMagic

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Or until your county starts winning at least.

Such a bad way of looking at the thing.

If my county won the all Ireland by being placed into the position that Dublin are in now, I'd actually feel ashamed. I'm not saying that to wind up Dublin posters, it's the genuine truth. Its laughably biased and the end result is actually damaging the game itself - all that so we can actually win? Jesus Christ, give me mayos depressing record over that any day.

I don't see how any self respecting gaa fan who is from a county capable of genuinely challenging could be any different.
Like in 20 years people will more than likely look back on this period and place a large asterix beside it, so what are Dublin actually gaining? Sure anyone with a bit of cop on can see that these wins are as tainted as it gets. In truth, the gaa are in fact, milking money out of the people of dublin with this set up. That is its motivation.

So to address your point, no its nothing to do with my own county winning for me anyway. There is a bigger picture at play.