Changes in the GAA - super thread

ToBeFrank123

Billy Mays wrote: »

I see DONTMATTER is back

Sorry, was that aimed at me?

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Sorry, was that aimed at me?

It wasn’t

Billy Mays

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Sorry, was that aimed at me?

Nope

rebel girl 15

Farawayhome wrote: »

As I said. The days of discussion for this is over. We know Dublin have been financially doped since 2005, we know it has led to increased success across the board. This is not up for debate. It's what we should do now. We have to split them. This will benefit the children of our capitol and it will go along way to righting the wrongs af the past decade. Time to get our games back in shape.

The whole thing was set up to benefit the kids of the capital

I don’t understand why you state it’s not up for debate - that is absolutely ridiculous and very much against the spirit of these threads and boards in general - don’t post such nonsense again please

OneEyedORourke

I'm sure someone was suggestion something similar, but my idea for a new format would be:

Split the championship into 4 regional conferences - North, South, East & West - 8 teams in each conference

North - Derry, Tyrone, Antrim, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh.
South - Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Tipperary, Limerick, Laois, Carlow, Wexford.
East - Dublin, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Offaly, Kildare, Wicklow, London.
West - Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Longford, Clare, Donegal.

Each team plays 7 games. Top two from each conference qualifies for the quarter finals (winner of a conference plays a runner up from another conference).

A second tier championship could also be introduced for the teams that finish 3rd and 4th in each conference.
The season would have to start earlier (late April?) and the League should be scrapped which could keep the club fixtures brigade happy.
The warm up provincial championships (FBD/O'Byrne Cup etc) should be kept as they are.

It doesn't fix the Dublin issue and smaller counties taking a hammering, but it does guarantee them more championship games and prolongs their summer - which will hopefully see them improve over time.
It also guarantees the big provincial fixtures (Galway/Mayo, Dublin/Meath etc) to be played at least once every summer.

There's probably lots of problems with the idea that I haven't thought off.

Thoughts??

Farawayhome

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The whole thing was set up to benefit the kids of the capital

I don’t understand why you state it’s not up for debate - that is absolutely ridiculous and very much against the spirit of these threads and boards in general - don’t post such nonsense again please

No it wasn't. Clearly from the start, the elite section of this was highlighted.

That Dublin have increased the number of titles across the board off the back of this money is not up for debate. It's a fact. This has nothing to do with these boards, facts are facts. And I hope you're not modding a thread you've clearly stated your views in?

Bonniedog

Farawayhome wrote: »

So were Limerick right to buy an All Ireland? Of course not! This is all wrong.

So Limerick have joined the ranks of the "financially doped"


I notice you keep harping on about "the Dublin President."

Not only is he the first since the 1940s I think? But he was elected by the GAA membership, of which I suspect you are not one.

So everyone must be part of the conspiracy in that case.

rebel girl 15

Farawayhome wrote: »

No it wasn't. Clearly from the start, the elite section of this was highlighted.

That Dublin have increased the number of titles across the board off the back of this money is not up for debate. It's a fact. This has nothing to do with these boards, facts are facts. And I hope you're not modding a thread you've clearly stated your views in?

When one poster declares something to be fact and that there will be no debate on it, then yes you can consider it a warning as this whole forum is about discussion and debate. We moderate the whole forum not just the threads we may or may not post on, and not one poster is entitled to declare what you just did there.

Please read the boards charter and the GAA forum charter before you post in here again.

Farawayhome

Bonniedog wrote: »

So Limerick have joined the ranks of the "financially doped"


I notice you keep harping on about "the Dublin President."

Not only is he the first since the 1940s I think? But he was elected by the GAA membership, of which I suspect you are not one.

So everyone must be part of the conspiracy in that case.

Do you think it's right when other counties buy All Ireland's or only when Dublin do it?

How he got elected is irrelevant. The agenda he's pushing is clear. As I said, time for all of us to stand together and fight back or our games will be left in ruin.

salmocab

Farawayhome wrote: »

Do you think it's right when other counties buy All Ireland's or only when Dublin do it?

How he got elected is irrelevant. The agenda he's pushing is clear. As I said, time for all of us to stand together and fight back or our games will be left in ruin.

Do you think he’s gone rogue and is pushing a personal agenda that he kept quiet about until he was elected? Or possibly he has an idea that you don’t agree with. Where he’s from is irrelevant.

ToBeFrank123

OneEyedORourke wrote: »

I'm sure someone was suggestion something similar, but my idea for a new format would be:

Split the championship into 4 regional conferences - North, South, East & West - 8 teams in each conference

North - Derry, Tyrone, Antrim, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Fermanagh.
South - Cork, Kerry, Waterford, Tipperary, Limerick, Laois, Carlow, Wexford.
East - Dublin, Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Offaly, Kildare, Wicklow, London.
West - Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Longford, Clare, Donegal.

Each team plays 7 games. Top two from each conference qualifies for the quarter finals (winner of a conference plays a runner up from another conference).

A second tier championship could also be introduced for the teams that finish 3rd and 4th in each conference.
The season would have to start earlier (late April?) and the League should be scrapped which could keep the club fixtures brigade happy.
The warm up provincial championships (FBD/O'Byrne Cup etc) should be kept as they are.

It doesn't fix the Dublin issue and smaller counties taking a hammering, but it does guarantee them more championship games and prolongs their summer - which will hopefully see them improve over time.
It also guarantees the big provincial fixtures (Galway/Mayo, Dublin/Meath etc) to be played at least once every summer.

There's probably lots of problems with the idea that I haven't thought off.

Thoughts??

I like the conference idea if the groups were smaller. Dublin's conference would be 6 or 7 one sided demolition jobs with your model which would kill even further interest in the sport in "leinster". Overall, there'd be a lot of nothing games in the championship. No problem with a 4 or 5 team conference with teams of similar quality though.

The GAA need to do something drastic and dramatic to resurrect current interest in the football championship. Its been on the slide for a while now and the Super8s I don't think have stopped that slide unfortunately. Super8s were a good idea on paper but in practice have turned out a bit flat.

salmocab

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I like the conference idea if the groups were smaller. Dublin's conference would be 6 or 7 one sided demolition jobs with your model which would kill even further interest in the sport in "leinster". Overall, there'd be a lot of nothing games in the championship. No problem with a 4 or 5 team conference with teams of similar quality though.

The GAA need to do something drastic and dramatic to resurrect current interest in the football championship. Its been on the slide for a while now and the Super8s I don't think have stopped that slide unfortunately. Super8s were a good idea on paper but in practice have turned out a bit flat.

I.agree it needs a restructure. I think the league needs to be used for feeding in to the championship somehow, maybe early rounds starting with div 4 v div 3 winners play div 2 teams etc

bucketybuck

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Super8s were a good idea on paper but in practice have turned out a bit flat.

The Super 8's were always a ridiculous idea and many people said so when they were announced.

Farawayhome

bucketybuck wrote: »

The Super 8's were always a ridiculous idea and many people said so when they were announced.

It was just an attempt to boost revenue as attendances are falling. It's non stop short term strategies. They are continuing with it for the tiered championship idea. A limited number of teams competing at the top level results in a limited level of attendance. A large number of teams competing at the top level results in a larger attendance. It's pretty simple.

ToBeFrank123

bucketybuck wrote: »

The Super 8's were always a ridiculous idea and many people said so when they were announced.

What's the alternative?

A couple years ago Dublin were thrashing Fermanagh in an AI quarter final. Do we go back to that?

That and the fact a team like Monaghan or Galway could win a competitive provincial championship and then be out after one loss, which was definitely not fair.

So what is the alternative?

ToBeFrank123

Farawayhome wrote: »

It was just an attempt to boost revenue as attendances are falling. It's non stop short term strategies. They are continuing with it for the tiered championship idea. A limited number of teams competing at the top level results in a limited level of attendance. A large number of teams competing at the top level results in a larger attendance. It's pretty simple.

Agreed about short term strategies. They need to think longer term and have a better vision. There is little or no effort to level the playing field and when you don't do that, the whole thing begins to slide, and eventually attendances and interest drops off.

I could be wrong but a second tier championship will be treated as the joke it became before.

For some reason footballers from Carlow, Leitrim, etc think they can compete for Sam, and when you take away that dream they have no interest in a second tier competition.

The whole thing is a shambles.

Pogue eile

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Agreed about short term strategies. They need to think longer term and have a better vision. There is little or no effort to level the playing field and when you don't do that, the whole thing begins to slide, and eventually attendances and interest drops off.

I could be wrong but a second tier championship will be treated as the joke it became before.

For some reason footballers from Carlow, Leitrim, etc think they can compete for Sam, and when you take away that dream they have no interest in a second tier competition.

The whole thing is a shambles.

You dont take anything away but if they want to compete for Sam then they have to win propotion from Tier 2, its a very simple concept that operates in every other sport in the world!!

ToBeFrank123

Pogue eile wrote: »

You dont take anything away but if they want to compete for Sam then they have to win propotion from Tier 2, its a very simple concept that operates in every other sport in the world!!

Ah its just tinkering around the edges to be honest. Introducing a tier two championship is not going to promote interest.

Players are not going to be up for it in the Paudie O'Se cup no matter if there is promotion involved or not. And attendances will fall off further.

Players from weaker counties want to play the Mayos, Dublins and Kerrys. That at least is something to tell the grandkids. Telling them they played a division 4 team on front of 500 people aint going to cut it.

A tier two championship will end up the same way as last time, declining interest and it will go the same way as the Railway Cup. Teams from the very weakest counties will have no chance of winning a tier 2 competition and this will lead to even more of a decline in these counties.

Pogue eile

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Teams from the very weakest counties will have no chance of winning a tier 2 competition and this will lead to even more of a decline in these counties.

I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense what so ever and your arguing against yourself.

Pogue eile

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Players from weaker counties want to play the Mayos, Dublins and Kerrys. That at least is something to tell the grandkids. Telling them they played a division 4 team on front of 500 people aint going to cut it.

Let's ask the players what they want so?

Farawayhome

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

What's the alternative?

A couple years ago Dublin were thrashing Fermanagh in an AI quarter final. Do we go back to that?

That and the fact a team like Monaghan or Galway could win a competitive provincial championship and then be out after one loss, which was definitely not fair.

So what is the alternative?

Did you see the whippings handed out in the super 8's?

Farawayhome

Pogue eile wrote: »

You dont take anything away but if they want to compete for Sam then they have to win propotion from Tier 2, its a very simple concept that operates in every other sport in the world!!

Not true. Cup competitions are open to all in most sports.

Pogue eile

Farawayhome wrote: »

Not true. Cup competitions are open to all in most sports.

And therein lies the crux - do you want a cup competiton or a championship!

And no not all teams can enter a cup competion there is always a qualifying citeria and in this case it would simply be your league position to begin with and your performance the pervious year there after.

ToBeFrank123

Farawayhome wrote: »

Did you see the whippings handed out in the super 8's?

I think you and I are on the same page. No matter what format you bring in, there will be whippings, unless of course you try to match teams up but even then there's still one sided games. The Super8s last year gave us 8 or so of the top teams in the country. Dublin will still whip one or two of these such as Kildare, but on paper at least the Super8s was an improvement form the point of view of provincial champions not being caught cold and being out after losing 1 game. But as it stands there will be whippings because of a wide disparity in resources and abilities.

The elephant in the room is that Dublin are so far ahead of most other teams and this has led to lots and lots of one sided training matches for them going back almost a decade now. The Leinster championship has been killed off because of it, which has many people saying the whole provincial structures should be dismantled.

At least when teams get promoted to the EPL in England, they receive huge resources to help them compete. I can't see that happening in GAA for lesser teams and if it was proposed it would be shouted down by the usual people who oppose significant help to anyone but their own team.

ToBeFrank123

Pogue eile wrote: »

And therein lies the crux - do you want a cup competiton or a championship!

And no not all teams can enter a cup competion there is always a qualifying citeria and in this case it would simply be your league position to begin with and your performance the pervious year there after.

It doesn't matter what you have, as it stands Dublin will win. So why bother doing anything? The championship is now just a load of pointless games with Dublin winning in the end. The Leinster championship was killed off and buried by them with the help of the GAA. Both have now moved on to do the same to Sam.

At least the League remains a serious competition.

Farawayhome

Pogue eile wrote: »

And therein lies the crux - do you want a cup competiton or a championship!

And no not all teams can enter a cup competion there is always a qualifying citeria and in this case it would simply be your league position to begin with and your performance the pervious year there after.

The championship is a cup competition?

We already have a tiered competition with the league. The championship should be open to all.

Pogue eile

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

It doesn't matter what you have, as it stands Dublin will win. So why bother doing anything? The championship is now just a load of pointless games with Dublin winning in the end. The Leinster championship was killed off and buried by them with the help of the GAA. Both have now moved on to do the same to Sam.

At least the League remains a serious competition.

So you dont have a problem with the structure, the promotion of the competition, the proposal to introduce a tiered championship etc etc you have a problem with Dublin full stop.................at least you finally came out and said it!

Pogue eile

Amazing that the only two posters singing off the same hymn sheet and likeing each others posts, have an identical post count..........creepy :rolleyes:

Farawayhome

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think you and I are on the same page. No matter what format you bring in, there will be whippings, unless of course you try to match teams up but even then there's still one sided games. The Super8s last year gave us 8 or so of the top teams in the country. Dublin will still whip one or two of these such as Kildare, but on paper at least the Super8s was an improvement form the point of view of provincial champions not being caught cold and being out after losing 1 game. But as it stands there will be whippings because of a wide disparity in resources and abilities.

The elephant in the room is that Dublin are so far ahead of most other teams and this has led to lots and lots of one sided training matches for them going back almost a decade now. The Leinster championship has been killed off because of it, which has many people saying the whole provincial structures should be dismantled.

At least when teams get promoted to the EPL in England, they receive huge resources to help them compete. I can't see that happening in GAA for lesser teams and if it was proposed it would be shouted down by the usual people who oppose significant help to anyone but their own team.

I've said it before but we have a perfect example of what works and what doesn't work. All we have to do is look at the hurling. The tiered championship hasn't improved the standard in counties such as Offaly. They fell down to tier 2 and they cannot get back up. Their standard began to match those they played regularly.
On the other hand, Dublin were way behind the level of Offaly. They received huge resources, this led to a big increase in their standards. They won a national league and a provincial championship. They now compete at the top level. Also, the crowds they used to get were tiny, they increased by huge amounts with the increased success.
So not only does funding work, you also get a return off it. This is clearly what should be happening. Tiered championships are nonsense.

Farawayhome

Pogue eile wrote: »

Amazing that the only two posters singing off the same hymn sheet and likeing each others posts, have an identical post count..........creepy :rolleyes:

Are you from Dublin?