Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

recyclebin wrote: »

They are either breaking the rules or they are not. It should be black and white in the rule books. Teams shouldn't have to be writing letters in this day and age.

If they are burning oil then they better have found a good loop hole in the rules.

Yeah. The other teams are asking if they have found a good loophole in the rules. I think the teams have the legal stuff covered. No need for me or you to critique them on their legal phraseology.

Apart from anything, the way they have phrased the question actually answers the question about whether they can develop on this particular way. So it’s smart.

The Ferrari engine protest is more than a bit silly - the difference IS staggering (I've mentioned this before - I hadn't seen such a delta since the V8s raced against V12s), but Ferrari's recent form has come on aero-sensitive tracks (while, ironically, they didn't utterly dominate in the power-only ones). If you take pole in Suzuka it's not just the engine, it means the chassis and aero are working through the lap.

They were on the backfoot in the race as they suffered tyre deg, but that's another Ferrari achille's heel.

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1187090943494803457

Uh oh

Any onboard videos showing what the driver was doing and what was appearing on the steering wheel? It sounds like this is how Racing Point were able to prove the system existed.

I wonder how complicated it was or was it just a macro where you preselect a brake bias for every corner and just toggle through using a button on steering wheel for each corner.

billybonkers wrote: »

They were not able to prove it was a timed system, but it sounds like it would have been loaded into the cars software and was automatically changing the bias based on which corner was coming up, be it by GPS, time etc.

Looks like a former a Renault employee was the whistle-blower.

Sounds like it was a very clever system and effective too but you have to wonder which the drivers would prefer. Computers can be faulty or programmed wrong as they are made and programmed by humans.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I bet Williams wish they had all the computers on their car from 1993.

Or even just Renaults new system. Ironically the Williams of that era was also powered by Renault so Renault could have had involvement in that too.

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I don't know would Williams have any success with the current Renault system given how much of a dog their car is. Considering they have the best engine on the grid in terms of championships one must consider what could Adrian Newey do with the current Williams just like that bygone era? Wiliams-Renault Part 2 from 12-13 was more successful than the McLaren-Honda part 2 however.

It certainly would not make the Williams car any worse anyway.
It would still be the slowest car on the grid until they can sort there aero and chassis problems but at least it would give the drivers a bit more confidence to drive the car a bit harder into corners. However that's all hypothetical unless Williams design a system that is not illegal that they could use it is not going to happen anytime soon.
I agree Williams-Renault part 2 was more successful than part 2 of Mclaren-Honda. However I think there was glimpse of promise there they just never had the right working relationship the way Red Bull and Honda have now.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Jesus the Chequered Flag podcast is gone to shyte. The 3 people on it are really rubbish and their banter is nauseating. The hosts are Jennie Gow, Jack Nicholls and Jolyon Palmer. Palmer comes across as a mix of massively bitter and humble bragging. The actual analysis could be condensed to 5 mins and the rest is just looking for a controversial angle. They often acknowledge the reality and then admit they’re just arguing for the sake of it. I can get that with my mates. I want the experts to give expert opinions, not guff.

I love podcasts but the banter is really the main point of it now. It’s a real shame because podcasts used to be a bit niche and nerdy. Now they’re gone towards scripted skits and bull shyte

I like OTM as a bit of light hearted fun but do you have a more serious one you would recommend?

I can't stand the host on Missed Apex. He's the worst for fishing for controversy that isn't there and deliberately trying to annoy his Co hosts
I have laughed quite a bit at the "sponsors" of On the marbles, but the questions from Twitter can be a bit silly.
Autosport is good if you just forget what Ed Straw looks like in real life.
Chequered Flag podcast is OK for a preview of Palmers youtube video.

flazio wrote: »

I can't stand the host on Missed Apex. He's the worst for fishing for controversy that isn't there and deliberately trying to annoy his Co hosts
I have laughed quite a bit at the "sponsors" of On the marbles, but the questions from Twitter can be a bit silly.
Autosport is good if you just forget what Ed Straw looks like in real life.
Chequered Flag podcast is OK for a preview of Palmers youtube video.

The sponsors bit is a dig at another one I listened to. A sky sports affiliated maybe? They did an interview with Felipe massa which was good, but stopped every few minutes with the host advertising stuff.
Thanks guys, Ill check them out, and see which suits me.
Remember when Jones got the F1 job, I don't think he even knew what F1 was.

BDI wrote: »

Haha you have to admire their loophole jumping.

As long as the logo is there, they are advertising brand Heineken against their rivals.

This is exactly it - it's the proverbial "hiding behind a finger" scenario.



From the public's standpoint, the Heineken brand is associated with one thing and one thing only: beer, of the conventional, alcoholic kind. I don't drink, I know nothing about various types of beer, liquors or wines, and I know what Heineken is. Also, during the time they've been sponsoring F1, I've never once got any hint about them advertising a specific product, less than anything a non-alcoholic one - doubly interesting considering I could, theoretically, be falling withing their potential customers audience.



As it stands, the Heineken sponsorship deal is one that should have never, under any circumstances, have happened and the reasons for it should be obvious to everyone.

Inviere wrote: »

It raises the question, can a company just make an offshoot product, something really cheap, and use their name for sporting advertising (where they previously couldn't?) Say Marlboro, if they made cheap watches alongside cigarettes, couldn't they then use the Marlboro logo on Ferrari and say it was there for watch sponsorship, ala Heineken with non-alcoholic beer?

The ruling on Mission Winnow recently would suggest that wouldn’t be ok for cigarettes. But it’s fine with alcohol ala Heineken alcohol free.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In a sport governed by the same organization that oversees the campaigns against drink driving on the road, go figure.

There have been clever tricks attempted in the past - both Marlboro and Camel, at some point, tried to pretend their sponsorship was about their fashion brands rather than cigarettes, with little to no results.

Also, little known / unexpected and slightly pointless fact of the season: since joining Red Bull, Albon has so far outscored Verstappen and not by a small margin: they're 58-39 so far.

Hasn't been a great spell for max but Albon does appear to have the speed.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah but this period started with max starting from the back of the grid with an engine change and he has crashed and gone to the back a couple of times too. Albon is no slouch but he’s not out scoring Max because he has greater raw speed. Max is well ahead in quali.

Max isn’t a fair benchmark anyway. He’s probably the best driver with Hamilton and they’re quite a way ahead of everyone else

Well, as it's been said more than once, the fact Verstappen is seemingly more often near trouble than most other drivers means he's not a completely innocent party, especially when it comes to first corner clashes. He collided with opponents three times in the last two races, plus a penalty due to his own mistake.

As for the speed...I'm not that sure, to be honest; Most F1 drivers are within hundredths of a second of each other, bigger differences are the exception due to either clear skill gaps (e.g. pay drivers), experience (Raikkonen-Giovinazzi, with Antonio being much closer and even ahead as races go by) or the car/setup being more or less suitable to one driver or the other. Verstappen didn't exactly trounce Sainz at Toro Rosso - and was often behind Ricciardo at Red Bull.

I do think the current Red Bull suits his style particularly well, making anybody who's step in the second car look like a slow coach - it'll be interesting to see if this changes next year with a new chassis. As I always say, if all current F1 drivers were given the same chassis and engine, the results in terms of raw speed would most likely be not what everyone would expect at all.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Well, as it's been said more than once, the fact Verstappen is seemingly more often near trouble than most other drivers means he's not a completely innocent party, especially when it comes to first corner clashes. He collided with opponents three times in the last two races, plus a penalty due to his own mistake.

As for the speed...I'm not that sure, to be honest; Most F1 drivers are within hundredths of a second of each other, bigger differences are the exception due to either clear skill gaps (e.g. pay drivers), experience (Raikkonen-Giovinazzi, with Antonio being much closer and even ahead as races go by) or the car/setup being more or less suitable to one driver or the other. Verstappen didn't exactly trounce Sainz at Toro Rosso - and was often behind Ricciardo at Red Bull.

I do think the current Red Bull suits his style particularly well, making anybody who's step in the second car look like a slow coach - it'll be interesting to see if this changes next year with a new chassis. As I always say, if all current F1 drivers were given the same chassis and engine, the results in terms of raw speed would most likely be not what everyone would expect at all.

I definitely won't argue against the fact that Max ends up in trouble more of the than most and it's his own doing. I also think it's very much a part of the RB outlook at the moment. They aren't in any kind of fight at the moment so they can take big risks that other drivers can't afford to take. So Max can be much more rough with Hamilton in Mexico (though it didn't work out for Max).

I think if Max were involved in a title battle he would reign it in a bit. In the meantime he's building up a reputation as an aggressive driver who is willing to risk his race (and yours) in every battle, so if you're not fighting for position it might be better to just let him past and get on with your own race.

I also think there are many aspects to a driver. Max is good in Quali and is a long way ahead of his teammates this season. Bottas is also ahead of Hamilton in quail but nobody is suggesting Bottas is the faster driver overall. Hamilton has his racecraft nailed down so he rarely ends up in crashes while Max does.

I think if max were fighting for a championship, he would be a bit more conservative

astrofluff wrote: »

If you look at the head to head between Max and Albon since Alex joined the RB team, it's Alex that has been finishing better. Albon gets what he can done on the Saturday, but really puts his head down in the race keeping out of trouble, bringing the car home and getting the team solid points. I'd expect him to retain the seat for next year - he's definitely maturing quite quickly. Decent, honest driver.

Being honest, I don't think RB expect Albon to as strong as he is. The seat is surely his. Gasley wasn't at the races at all.

quokula wrote: »

While he's been a step up from Gasly, Albon is really not doing anything special. He beats everyone that's not in a RB / Ferrari / Mercedes, and loses to everyone who is. 99% of average drivers will finish in the same place.

It's true Max has been in some incidents and lost out here and there, but in the last race for example Verstappen had the speed to compete for the win if Hamilton hadn't hit him, while Albon never looked anywhere near giving the Ferraris or Mercedes any trouble. It's easy to get in fewer accidents when you're not fast enough to be fighting anyone else for position.

Hmmmm, this is a bit of a "if my aunty had wheels, she'd be a wagon" argument.

If Verstappen didn't have this, that or the other happen to him, he would be beating Albon. But, he has been making mistakes and they are costing him. Albon has made his fair share of them as well in Russia and Mexico, where he crashed on the Fridays, yet recovers to get a solid haul of points on the Sunday, where it counts.



I am more of a facts person, and the numbers speak for themselves.

Gasly is happy and performing well in the Toro rosso, Albon steadily improving in the red bull. Seems like a clear option for me

You know what track I would love to see back on the F1 Calender more than any other ? Imola . It has a rating to hold F1 races and is the real Ferrari home track even though monza is a brilliant track and the race this year was unbelievable, I think F1 one needs imola back on the racing schedule. I know there was a possibility it was coming back in 2017 which didn't happen.

I realise this is just my hope and a business like F1 doesn't operate on fans and their hopes and yes the track is the site of one of the darkest weekend in the sports history but I just think instead of some of these painfully boring circuits which all look the same imola while not the same as even when it was last one the calendar in 2007, it brings more than some circuits do.

Albon is doing way better than Gasly, he qualified with the same time as Max at Suzuka despite never having raced there, he's been reliable. At the weekend they screwed his chances of a better finish with terrible strategy. Also the Red Bull seems a lot less competitive v Merc and Ferrari since the summer break, Mexico's foibles aside.

Verstappen has been awful the last few races. He just can't keep out of trouble. I'm surprised it hasn't got that much coverage. Albon has been steady but he is only the best of the rest. He hasn't really challenged a Merc or Ferrari yet.