Exit Strategy

end of the road · 19-10-2020 12:37pm

The_Brood wrote: »

I mean there is no longer any positive exit strategy. We have lost completely. The only question at the end is will we hold these politicians accountable for ruining us. Will there be at least a slither of justice. People need to go to prison for this.

nobody is going to go to prison as no crime has been committed and there is no justice required.
trying to protect the economy and public health from a contagious virus which can cause effects regardless of whether people get it or not, is quite rightly not a criminal offense.

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

[/B]

You obviously haven’t been following the ****show for the last 4-5 months.
The government are afraid of their life to make a decision.
They are so afraid of accountability for this they even put another committee between themselves and any decisions.
All the time it’s NPHET advised this , we’re going by public health advice.
Taoiseach directing all questions towards the deputy CMO at one press conference.

Absolute joke of a government and in the last few weeks they have actually pushed back a bit against NPHET due to some unrest internally in Leinster house but their have been even more mixed messages since.

NPHET are blind to real life , The government are absolutely useless beyond belief and the country is going down the drain but sure let’s continue this way aimlessly plodding along with everybody’s life on hold for a virus that many who get tested for don’t even know they have it.

I’ve said it before whoever is making the decisions regarding restrictions need to move away from basing them on cases only.

Any restrictions must now be based on ADMISSIONS TO HOSPITALS WITH COVID only.

oh i have been following it, and properly, rather then taking specific statements and then twisting them to suit an agenda.
the government have been making all of the decisions based on all sorts of advice including public health advice from nphet, and it is quite right that the government should state who has given them the advice.
given the deputy CMO is a medical professional it's not surprising the taoiseach would divert questions to him, given he would be the best person to answer them.
they have no more pushed back against nphet, it's all optics and nphet are well aware of what the government are at. they are all playing you like a fiddle and it's brilliant to watch.
nphet are in no way blind to real life but they have a job to do and they are doing it and what is being asked of them. their concern is public health as it should be and is their job, and it's up to the government to do the balancing act which they are trying to do.
the fact that people don't even know they have the virus is what actually makes it dangerous as a whole, because if they don't know they have it they could be spreading it around unknowingly to people who might find out quite hard that they have it. hence we have to suppress it and why our approach is what it is, so that we can try and do that and protect what we can.
the restrictions aren't being based on cases only, cases may be one part as high cases equals potentially greater risks as a whole, but there will be lots of factors at play in terms of the decisions over restrictions.

end of the road · 19-10-2020 1:16pm

paw patrol wrote: »

This is galling after all the taxes we pay for the health system and it is creak at the thought of 50+ new cases in ICU
Those admissions are on the drip too (as in singular cases one by one0 How on earth would the HSE deal with a disaster like a massive bus crash, bomb, chemical spill?

It's mental that they are destroying the country and peoples lives over civil service mismanagement because it's ain't covid

they aren't destroying the country and people's lives, it is covid 19 that is doing that.
and no doubt it would be a lot more but for the measures been taken by most countries.

Danno wrote: »

There is no strategy, let alone an exit one. This is the Irish Govt we are talking about here.

NEPHET would have the country locked up for 4 years if they had their way. The only see a virus, nothing else exists.

nphet, as in the national public health emergency team, exist to specifically deal with public health issues and advise the government thus based on the evidence, nothing more, nothing less. it's not their job to see anything else, that is down to the government and any other advisery bodies.

Deleted User wrote: »

If this virus has thought us anything, it should be to question the experts more.

The experts predicted doomsday. Have a look back at the early models that countries used to enter lockdown.

posting incorrect information isn't questioning experts.
spouting ill informed nonsense isn't questioning experts.

taking specific statements and twisting them into something else isn't questioning experts.
plenty of us question experts and are happy to do so, but the difference is that most of us do it correctly.
we don't stamp our feet and decide that because we don't like what information they give they are automatically wrong and that those who give us the information we agree with are automatically right.
the experts predicted that if the virus was uncontrolled there would be serious issues, they were proven right.
they stated that if we could suppress and control it to a managable level, then while there would still be issues we could manage them, they were proven right on that also.

end of the road · 19-10-2020 1:18pm

polesheep wrote: »

And if someone is very vulnerable shouldn't that advice apply to them too?

it already does.
however the good thing about our approach is that when they do have to leave their homes because staying in their home full on won't always be an option, they have some degree of protection.

polesheep wrote: »

That's called creeping herd immunity. Why not speed it up while protecting the very vulnerable as best as possible?

because it's not possible.
you can't protect vulnerable people, some of who will rely on carers etc, when a virus is running uncontrolled in the community.

polesheep wrote: »

Theres is no evidence against it. Just ethical reasons.

there is evidence against it, italy during it's worst phase.

polesheep wrote: »

PPE

nope.
PPE wouldn't do very much in a situation where the virus is uncontrolled and the place where the vulnerable individual lives could not be controled to similar levels as somewhere such as a hospital because it wouldn't be practical.

19-10-2020 1:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He's not a real doctor. He's a chiropractor. Chiropractors are renowned world wide for their authoritative views on infectious diseases and respiratory illnesses.....:pac::pac::pac:

Yet a lot of major news outlets seem to be listening to Bill Gates, self-claimed medical expert and Doctor of... nothing

He's also a primary funder of the WHO and the UN. He's been pumping billions into vaccination development and already stated vaccines provide a "20-1 return on investment". Guess what organizations our governments take a lot of their advice from? Yeah, that's right; WHO and the UN. Guess what these organizations and their funders are going to recommend? Yep.

Here's an internal medicine Doctor (hopefully that's good enough for you) from California, who's successfully treated 1700 Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine. There's many more, to which I can provide links. Practicing Doctors. Successfully treated patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE3QfTnIazU

For those unaware, countless doctors are saying a combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin successfully treats the virus *when administered early*. Even The Virology Journal, official publication of Dr. Fauci's National Institute of Health, stated back in 2005 "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus infection and spread". So what's changed re: Dr. Fauci's findings and opinion? Maybe the fact he's now on the WHO/Gates payroll :rolleyes:

They're coming to sell you a vaccine most of you don't need. The reason they moved so quickly to try ban/discredit hydroxychloroquine (or any other treatment) is because with an effective, cheap treatment already available, big pharma can't sell the global population a 'vaccine'.

You're already aware of the saying "follow the money". It applies to nearly everything in life, and is no different here. So do it. Amazes me how people still don't understand this and fail to connect the most basic of dots.

Pitch n Putt · 19-10-2020 2:29pm

end of the road wrote: »

nobody is going to go to prison as no crime has been committed and there is no justice required.
trying to protect the economy and public health from a contagious virus which can cause effects regardless of whether people get it or not, is quite rightly not a criminal offense.

oh i have been following it, and properly, rather then taking specific statements and then twisting them to suit an agenda.
the government have been making all of the decisions based on all sorts of advice including public health advice from nphet, and it is quite right that the government should state who has given them the advice.
given the deputy CMO is a medical professional it's not surprising the taoiseach would divert questions to him, given he would be the best person to answer them.
they have no more pushed back against nphet, it's all optics and nphet are well aware of what the government are at. they are all playing you like a fiddle and it's brilliant to watch.
nphet are in no way blind to real life but they have a job to do and they are doing it and what is being asked of them. their concern is public health as it should be and is their job, and it's up to the government to do the balancing act which they are trying to do.
the fact that people don't even know they have the virus is what actually makes it dangerous as a whole, because if they don't know they have it they could be spreading it around unknowingly to people who might find out quite hard that they have it. hence we have to suppress it and why our approach is what it is, so that we can try and do that and protect what we can.
the restrictions aren't being based on cases only, cases may be one part as high cases equals potentially greater risks as a whole, but there will be lots of factors at play in terms of the decisions over restrictions.

Is that you Mr Martin?:pac::D

19-10-2020 2:45pm

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Is that you Mr Martin?:pac::D

Probably one of Health Minister, Stephen Donnelly's "special advisors"

Ya know, either of the two JOURNALISTS he hired for the position. The stuff that goes on in this country; ya couldn't write it

end of the road · 19-10-2020 2:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet a lot of major news outlets seem to be listening to Bill Gates, self-claimed medical expert and Doctor of... nothing

He's also a primary funder of the WHO and the UN. He's been pumping billions into vaccination development and already stated vaccines provide a "20-1 return on investment". Guess what organizations our governments take a lot of their advice from? Yeah, that's right; WHO and the UN. Guess what these organizations and their funders are going to recommend? Yep.

Here's an internal medicine Doctor (hopefully that's good enough for you) from California, who's successfully treated 1700 Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine. There's many more, to which I can provide links. Practicing Doctors. Successfully treated patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE3QfTnIazU

For those unaware, countless doctors are saying a combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin successfully treats the virus *when administered early*. Even The Virology Journal, official publication of Dr. Fauci's National Institute of Health, stated back in 2005 "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus infection and spread". So what's changed re: Dr. Fauci's findings and opinion? Maybe the fact he's now on the WHO/Gates payroll :rolleyes:

They're coming to sell you a vaccine most of you don't need. The reason they moved so quickly to try ban/discredit hydroxychloroquine (or any other treatment) is because with an effective, cheap treatment already available, big pharma can't sell the global population a 'vaccine'.

You're already aware of the saying "follow the money". It applies to nearly everything in life, and is no different here. So do it. Amazes me how people still don't understand this and fail to connect the most basic of dots.

or more likely, it's being banned as it's bogy nonsense with plenty of evidence showing it's lack of effectiveness.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why hasn't herd immunity worked on the seasonal flu?

Because the flu virus comes in many strains, as you should know.

19-10-2020 3:06pm

polesheep wrote: »

Because the flu virus comes in many strains, as you should know.

Why would herd immunity work on COVID-19 then?

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:10pm

end of the road wrote: »

it already does.
however the good thing about our approach is that when they do have to leave their homes because staying in their home full on won't always be an option, they have some degree of protection.

Perhaps you misunderstood. You are happy to exclude certain people from going to the shops etc and I am saying that the same thing could be applied to very vulnerable people.

because it's not possible.
you can't protect vulnerable people, some of who will rely on carers etc, when a virus is running uncontrolled in the community.

Yes, you can, by using PPE.

there is evidence against it, italy during it's worst phase.

There is zero evidence. Italy never tried for herd immunity.

nope.
PPE wouldn't do very much in a situation where the virus is uncontrolled and the place where the vulnerable individual lives could not be controled to similar levels as somewhere such as a hospital because it wouldn't be practical.

It would be more practical than closing down most of the economy. We have spent (wasted) billions to date, some of which could have been spent on improving control in those environments.

19-10-2020 3:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet a lot of major news outlets seem to be listening to Bill Gates, self-claimed medical expert and Doctor of... nothing

He's also a primary funder of the WHO and the UN. He's been pumping billions into vaccination development and already stated vaccines provide a "20-1 return on investment". Guess what organizations our governments take a lot of their advice from? Yeah, that's right; WHO and the UN. Guess what these organizations and their funders are going to recommend? Yep.

Here's an internal medicine Doctor (hopefully that's good enough for you) from California, who's successfully treated 1700 Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine. There's many more, to which I can provide links. Practicing Doctors. Successfully treated patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE3QfTnIazU

For those unaware, countless doctors are saying a combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin successfully treats the virus *when administered early*. Even The Virology Journal, official publication of Dr. Fauci's National Institute of Health, stated back in 2005 "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus infection and spread". So what's changed re: Dr. Fauci's findings and opinion? Maybe the fact he's now on the WHO/Gates payroll :rolleyes:

They're coming to sell you a vaccine most of you don't need. The reason they moved so quickly to try ban/discredit hydroxychloroquine (or any other treatment) is because with an effective, cheap treatment already available, big pharma can't sell the global population a 'vaccine'.

You're already aware of the saying "follow the money". It applies to nearly everything in life, and is no different here. So do it. Amazes me how people still don't understand this and fail to connect the most basic of dots.

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would herd immunity work on COVID-19 then?

So far, only very minor variations have been found in the Covid virus. Therefore, the reason we might achieve herd immunity is similar to the reason why a vaccine may be successful. But again, you should know this.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

That sounds a bit like your claim that the HSE are concealing mass cases of reinfection.

19-10-2020 3:27pm

polesheep wrote: »

That sounds a bit like your claim that the HSE are concealing mass cases of reinfection.

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

end of the road · 19-10-2020 3:29pm

polesheep wrote: »

It would be more practical than closing down most of the economy. We have spent (wasted) billions to date, some of which could have been spent on improving control in those environments.

given i support the approach we are taking which doesn't exclude anyone from going to the shops if they need to, how then am i happy to exclude people from going to the shops? advising the vulnerable to protect themselves to a greater extent if they need to, which has already happened, currently doesn't exclude them because thankfully there is some protection for them via the attempts to control the virus.
PPE does not protect vulnerable people from getting the virus if it is uncontrolled, for jesus sake we have had health care workers get this thing and that is dispite PPE.
italy didn't have to try for herd immunity, their situation showed it's not achievable without a vaccine.
most of the economy is open and working, we have spent money protecting what we can, which is all we could do, turning houses into minny hospitals and leaving the virus run uncontrolled actually would have been a waste of money as it would have delivered nothing.

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

You claimed that they are cases of reinfection. Are you now taking back that claim?

19-10-2020 3:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

Which of the points do you consider "conspiracy theory"? Will provide specific links to back up all points.

Did I read previous that you worked for the HSE? I know the HSE is constantly slated for bad management etc, but I'm genuinely asking you here: Do you know what they're actually treating Covid patients with? Haven't heard a single thing in the media about it.

19-10-2020 3:33pm

polesheep wrote: »

You claimed that they are cases of reinfection. Are you now taking back that claim?

How has what I said in anyway not been clear that they were reinfected?

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:39pm

end of the road wrote: »

given i support the approach we are taking which doesn't exclude anyone from going to the shops if they need to, how then am i happy to exclude people from going to the shops? advising the vulnerable to protect themselves to a greater extent if they need to, which has already happened, currently doesn't exclude them because thankfully there is some protection for them via the attempts to control the virus.
PPE does not protect vulnerable people from getting the virus if it is uncontrolled, for jesus sake we have had health care workers get this thing and that is dispite PPE.
italy didn't have to try for herd immunity, their situation showed it's not achievable without a vaccine.
most of the economy is open and working, we have spent money protecting what we can, which is all we could do, turning houses into minny hospitals and leaving the virus run uncontrolled actually would have been a waste of money as it would have delivered nothing.

If someone can't wear one they shouldn't go to work/shops etc.

To which I replied:
And if someone is very vulnerable shouldn't that advice apply to them too?

To which you replied:
it already does.

It does not.

Rodin · 19-10-2020 3:47pm

The vulnerable if they'd any sense would isolate themselves of their own volition and not look to the govt to protect them

19-10-2020 3:48pm

end of the road wrote: »

or more likely, it's being banned as it's bogy nonsense with plenty of evidence showing it's lack of effectiveness.

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

polesheep · 19-10-2020 3:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How has what I said in anyway not been clear that they were reinfected?

So, you are saying, again, that HSE staff have been reinfected. Again, I am asking you for evidence.

19-10-2020 4:03pm

polesheep wrote: »

So, you are saying, again, that HSE staff have been reinfected. Again, I am asking you for evidence.

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

polesheep · 19-10-2020 4:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

So you've no evidence then. We've been here before and I'm not up for another trip down the rabbit hole, so work away.

19-10-2020 4:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

* being thick :pac:

Off to the conspiracy theory forum with you then, as you're not dealing in facts

Loafing Oaf · 19-10-2020 8:52pm

So what exit strategy is being proposed as part of the current plan?

The-Science-Of-A-Grand-Soft-Day-A-Life-In-Weather-With-Gerald-Fleming.jpg

"In a word, divil-a-bit";)

Zebra3 · 19-10-2020 8:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't get here by been thick

Irony alert.

19-10-2020 9:15pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irony alert.

Hold my hands up.

end of the road · 19-10-2020 9:20pm

polesheep wrote: »

If someone can't wear one they shouldn't go to work/shops etc.

To which I replied:
And if someone is very vulnerable shouldn't that advice apply to them too?

To which you replied:
it already does.

It does not.

it does, it has been pushed throughout this whole situation.
you need to start paying actual attention to what is going on and what is being said.

Rodin wrote: »

The vulnerable if they'd any sense would isolate themselves of their own volition and not look to the govt to protect them

they likely already are.
however they are going to have to look to us all to help them and the country as a whole otherwise this thing gets out of control and we actually end up a basket case.

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

yeah, they posted the article, greater evidence came to light to show they were incorrect, so they withdrew the article. just like any reputable organisation would do.
the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

polesheep wrote: »

So you've no evidence then. We've been here before and I'm not up for another trip down the rabbit hole, so work away.

he has given you what evidence he can.
you obviously missed the part of his post that stated he cannot and will not release confidential data as it's a sackable offence.

19-10-2020 9:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

You can talk whatever about the US.

I'm a hospital pharmacist based in Ireland. There is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine helps with covid-19. No covid 19 protocol in Ireland has hydroxychloroquine on it. It increases risk of QT prolongation. The EMA don't approve it's use for covid 19 and in all fairness, it's a pretty **** antimalarial too.

Thierry12 · 19-10-2020 9:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can talk whatever about the US.

I'm a hospital pharmacist based in Ireland. There is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine helps with covid-19. No covid 19 protocol in Ireland has hydroxychloroquine on it. It increases risk of QT prolongation. The EMA don't approve it's use for covid 19 and in all fairness, it's a pretty **** antimalarial too.

What's the covid treatment in hospitals here btw?

Has it changed much since March?

19-10-2020 10:06pm

Thierry12 wrote: »

What's the covid treatment in hospitals here btw?

Has it changed much since March?

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is gone, steroids done seem to help much, probing helps if suffering from ARDs. Only medication that is in trial at moment is remdesevir. Everything else is supportive care.

Thierry12 · 19-10-2020 10:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is gone, steroids done seem to help much, probing helps if suffering from ARDs. Only medication that is in trial at moment is remdesevir. Everything else is supportive care.

Depressing

12 months in and we've nothing

Jim2007 · 20-10-2020 2:08am

GazzaL wrote: »

The most realistic exit strategy is that the public won't play along with the utter nonsense being touted by NPHET and will just get on with life regardless. NPHET have no strategy, never mind an exit strategy. They will just call for lockdowns ad infinitum.

If you were told that in five years time they will discover that exposure to this virus reduces your life expectancy by 10 years, would you still think it’s nonsense?

Nonsense is exposing yourself to unnecessary risks when you have no idea of consequences and it’s even more so when solutions are in sight and all that is required is to sit on your hands and wait.

NPHET Has the same strategy and only strategy as everyone else, try to keep the risks at the minimum and play for time.

Thats me · 20-10-2020 2:21am

Thierry12 wrote: »

Depressing

12 months in and we've nothing

It is not 12 months yet, but they have effective methods of treatment which obviously already helped to decrease death rate during the second wave. May be this video could explain current approaches in more details: https://youtu.be/bJZcDBTEGio

speckle · 20-10-2020 2:32am

6

Deleted User wrote: »

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

On the other thread you said they wete doing antibody testing to prove re infection,I posted that they use pcr testing and phylo/genetic analysis. Now suddenly, you are here saying pcr testing. enough said and still no data just excuses...

speckle · 20-10-2020 2:37am

And here are the hse treatment protocols and rapid assements for potential drugs etc for anyone to read.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/drugs-management-programme/covid-19/

moonage · 20-10-2020 3:07am

end of the road wrote: »

the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

Because there's no money to be made from hydroxychloroquine, even if it is effective.

20-10-2020 7:57am

speckle wrote: »

And here are the hse treatment protocols and rapid assements for potential drugs etc for anyone to read.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/drugs-management-programme/covid-19/

Those are protocols you are referring to, not guidelines. Look, I'm not going to publish the data. It's not mine to publish. Cases of reinfection are happening in HCPs in the HSE and I know of one personally. It's a bit worrying to say the least.

20-10-2020 8:01am

moonage wrote: »

Because there's no money to be made from hydroxychloroquine, even if it is effective.

Bingo. These guys don't seem to understand how the world actually works. Money is the answer to everything.

There's countless doctors saying it's curing their patients. Here's another. Are all these Doctor's lying, or does this massive push towards "vaccination only" have any possible connection to the billions and billions they're going to make from it? :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs_EWVCVPc

polesheep · 20-10-2020 8:22am

end of the road wrote: »

it does, it has been pushed throughout this whole situation.
you need to start paying actual attention to what is going on and what is being said.

they likely already are.
however they are going to have to look to us all to help them and the country as a whole otherwise this thing gets out of control and we actually end up a basket case.

yeah, they posted the article, greater evidence came to light to show they were incorrect, so they withdrew the article. just like any reputable organisation would do.
the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

he has given you what evidence he can.
you obviously missed the part of his post that stated he cannot and will not release confidential data as it's a sackable offence.

He has given NO evidence. He frequently posts things and makes claims that he cannot back up.

20-10-2020 8:34am

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, they posted the article, greater evidence came to light to show they were incorrect, so they withdrew the article. just like any reputable organisation would do.
the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

What "evidence" are you talking about? Here's more Doctors below saying hydroxychloroquine and zinc are successfully curing their patients. I can link endless other Doctors saying the same thing. Are they lying? I'll take their word from the field treating actual patients over whatever vague or funded "evidence" you're alluding to.

I hope you can understand this: Big pharma are the biggest lobby group of the US government. Those same interests are now primary financiers of the WHO, UN, and other European organizations who our EU governments take a lot of their recommendations from. What do you think these organizations are going to be pushing for? :rolleyes:

Suppress cheap, effective treatments to make way for attempted global vaccination and the trillions it will make. Stop listening to the likes of RTE. Do your own research and connect the dots financially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs_EWVCVPc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQg7XrvMJ8

Thierry12 · 20-10-2020 8:50am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Those are protocols you are referring to, not guidelines. Look, I'm not going to publish the data. It's not mine to publish. Cases of reinfection are happening in HCPs in the HSE and I know of one personally. It's a bit worrying to say the least.

Yeah that's the next step

Reinfections

West media have ignored it but will be news soon

Brazil have 247 cases of possible re-infection

Iran loads too but not verified and wont be

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/amp/saude/2020/10/19/brasil-investiga-pelo-menos-247-casos-de-possiveis-reinfeccoes-por-covid-19?__twitter_impression=true

If our immune system cant generate a response, its failed to do its job or we do infact have many strains of Covid19

That's made making a sterilising vaccine and natural herd immunity a whole lot harder

Thats me · 20-10-2020 9:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs_EWVCVPc

Have you noticed the date when this video was published?

20-10-2020 9:16am

Thats me wrote: »

Have you noticed the date when this video was published?

Yeah, a month or so into the Covid pandemic (longer re: China etc). Point?

People infected, treated with hydroxychloroquine/zinc, and then recovered quickly.

The idea is hydroxychloroquine acts as an ionophore to allow zinc enter the cells (other more easily available ionophores include Quercetin and EGCG). Zinc inhibits the enzyme the virus is using to replicate. Azithromycin, commonly added to this protocol, is said to deal with any secondary infections.

CalamariFritti · 20-10-2020 9:45am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well 'lockdown' is a rather subjective term, but if you don't believe more severe restrictions are going to be introduced over the next week or so, you may be in for a bit of a shock...

You were right and yes I am shocked.

Rodin · 20-10-2020 9:48am

I have seen no randomised controlled trial that proves that Plaquenil works in Covid...

One doctor's anecdotes is not evidence.
Causality is not proven.

20-10-2020 10:11am

Rodin wrote: »

One doctor's anecdotes is not evidence.

It's not just one Doctor. It's many, many Doctors..

Rodin wrote: »

I have seen no randomised controlled trial that proves that Plaquenil works in Covid...

Here you go:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

Conclusion:
"In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact."

Mortality rate halved, and they didn't even use zinc. Based on what other Doctors are saying, zinc is a vital part of the hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin protocol.

Rodin · 20-10-2020 10:57am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not just one Doctor. It's many, many Doctors..

Here you go:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

Conclusion:
"In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact."

Mortality rate halved, and they didn't even use zinc. Based on what other Doctors are saying, zinc is a vital part of the hydroxychloroquine/zinc/azithromycin protocol.

I think you need to look up what a randomised controlled trial is.
The bit at the end where it says 'PROspective trials are needed' should have given it away.

The study itself even states it's retrospective.

Next!!

speckle · 20-10-2020 11:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Those are protocols you are referring to, not guidelines. Look, I'm not going to publish the data. It's not mine to publish. Cases of reinfection are happening in HCPs in the HSE and I know of one personally. It's a bit worrying to say the least.

I used the term guidelines as that page links to more than the protocols if you care to look at it and most people here understand guidlines as a word and possible not protocols.
Even if you know one case of confirmed re infection, we know of a handful in the world out of millions of recoverys. A bit of perspective is needed not scarmongery. And I do hope your friend recovers and hope to see the case documented in a scientific paper as I have read the details of the others.
Hiw many do you know that have recovered?

Exit Strategy

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