nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Exit Strategy

Loafing Oaf

I think this question deserves a thread of its own, apologies if the mods don't agree.

So assuming the country moves to Level 5/lockdown over the next week, at what point and in what manner should we move out of that stage?

Is Zero Covid a realistic target, and if not are the sort of numbers we reached in early summer good enough to start easing restrictions?

Do we do a piecemeal relaxation of restrictions like we did then, assuming there is no significant rise in cases, until everything is opened up? Or do some things (like pubs?) have to stay closed until we get a vaccine?

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet a lot of major news outlets seem to be listening to Bill Gates, self-claimed medical expert and Doctor of... nothing

He's also a primary funder of the WHO and the UN. He's been pumping billions into vaccination development and already stated vaccines provide a "20-1 return on investment". Guess what organizations our governments take a lot of their advice from? Yeah, that's right; WHO and the UN. Guess what these organizations and their funders are going to recommend? Yep.

Here's an internal medicine Doctor (hopefully that's good enough for you) from California, who's successfully treated 1700 Covid patients with hydroxychloroquine. There's many more, to which I can provide links. Practicing Doctors. Successfully treated patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE3QfTnIazU

For those unaware, countless doctors are saying a combination of hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and azithromycin successfully treats the virus *when administered early*. Even The Virology Journal, official publication of Dr. Fauci's National Institute of Health, stated back in 2005 "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS Coronavirus infection and spread". So what's changed re: Dr. Fauci's findings and opinion? Maybe the fact he's now on the WHO/Gates payroll :rolleyes:

They're coming to sell you a vaccine most of you don't need. The reason they moved so quickly to try ban/discredit hydroxychloroquine (or any other treatment) is because with an effective, cheap treatment already available, big pharma can't sell the global population a 'vaccine'.

You're already aware of the saying "follow the money". It applies to nearly everything in life, and is no different here. So do it. Amazes me how people still don't understand this and fail to connect the most basic of dots.

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would herd immunity work on COVID-19 then?

So far, only very minor variations have been found in the Covid virus. Therefore, the reason we might achieve herd immunity is similar to the reason why a vaccine may be successful. But again, you should know this.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

That sounds a bit like your claim that the HSE are concealing mass cases of reinfection.

[Deleted User]

polesheep wrote: »

That sounds a bit like your claim that the HSE are concealing mass cases of reinfection.

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

end of the road

polesheep wrote: »

It would be more practical than closing down most of the economy. We have spent (wasted) billions to date, some of which could have been spent on improving control in those environments.

given i support the approach we are taking which doesn't exclude anyone from going to the shops if they need to, how then am i happy to exclude people from going to the shops? advising the vulnerable to protect themselves to a greater extent if they need to, which has already happened, currently doesn't exclude them because thankfully there is some protection for them via the attempts to control the virus.
PPE does not protect vulnerable people from getting the virus if it is uncontrolled, for jesus sake we have had health care workers get this thing and that is dispite PPE.
italy didn't have to try for herd immunity, their situation showed it's not achievable without a vaccine.
most of the economy is open and working, we have spent money protecting what we can, which is all we could do, turning houses into minny hospitals and leaving the virus run uncontrolled actually would have been a waste of money as it would have delivered nothing.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

You claimed that they are cases of reinfection. Are you now taking back that claim?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate. You need to get yourself to the conspiracy theory forum as you aren't dealing in facts here.

Which of the points do you consider "conspiracy theory"? Will provide specific links to back up all points.

Did I read previous that you worked for the HSE? I know the HSE is constantly slated for bad management etc, but I'm genuinely asking you here: Do you know what they're actually treating Covid patients with? Haven't heard a single thing in the media about it.

[Deleted User]

polesheep wrote: »

You claimed that they are cases of reinfection. Are you now taking back that claim?

How has what I said in anyway not been clear that they were reinfected?

polesheep

end of the road wrote: »

given i support the approach we are taking which doesn't exclude anyone from going to the shops if they need to, how then am i happy to exclude people from going to the shops? advising the vulnerable to protect themselves to a greater extent if they need to, which has already happened, currently doesn't exclude them because thankfully there is some protection for them via the attempts to control the virus.
PPE does not protect vulnerable people from getting the virus if it is uncontrolled, for jesus sake we have had health care workers get this thing and that is dispite PPE.
italy didn't have to try for herd immunity, their situation showed it's not achievable without a vaccine.
most of the economy is open and working, we have spent money protecting what we can, which is all we could do, turning houses into minny hospitals and leaving the virus run uncontrolled actually would have been a waste of money as it would have delivered nothing.

If someone can't wear one they shouldn't go to work/shops etc.

To which I replied:
And if someone is very vulnerable shouldn't that advice apply to them too?

To which you replied:
it already does.

It does not.

Rodin

The vulnerable if they'd any sense would isolate themselves of their own volition and not look to the govt to protect them

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

or more likely, it's being banned as it's bogy nonsense with plenty of evidence showing it's lack of effectiveness.

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

How has what I said in anyway not been clear that they were reinfected?

So, you are saying, again, that HSE staff have been reinfected. Again, I am asking you for evidence.

[Deleted User]

polesheep wrote: »

So, you are saying, again, that HSE staff have been reinfected. Again, I am asking you for evidence.

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

So you've no evidence then. We've been here before and I'm not up for another trip down the rabbit hole, so work away.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I risk my job by releasing data that is marked confidential to prove somebody wrong on an internet message board? Believe me. Don't believe me. I'll post the data when the HSE is about to release it. I didn't get here by been thick

* being thick :pac:

Off to the conspiracy theory forum with you then, as you're not dealing in facts

Loafing Oaf

So what exit strategy is being proposed as part of the current plan?

The-Science-Of-A-Grand-Soft-Day-A-Life-In-Weather-With-Gerald-Fleming.jpg

"In a word, divil-a-bit";)

Zebra3

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't get here by been thick

Irony alert.

[Deleted User]

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irony alert.

Hold my hands up.

end of the road

polesheep wrote: »

If someone can't wear one they shouldn't go to work/shops etc.

To which I replied:
And if someone is very vulnerable shouldn't that advice apply to them too?

To which you replied:
it already does.

It does not.

it does, it has been pushed throughout this whole situation.
you need to start paying actual attention to what is going on and what is being said.

Rodin wrote: »

The vulnerable if they'd any sense would isolate themselves of their own volition and not look to the govt to protect them

they likely already are.
however they are going to have to look to us all to help them and the country as a whole otherwise this thing gets out of control and we actually end up a basket case.

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

yeah, they posted the article, greater evidence came to light to show they were incorrect, so they withdrew the article. just like any reputable organisation would do.
the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

polesheep wrote: »

So you've no evidence then. We've been here before and I'm not up for another trip down the rabbit hole, so work away.

he has given you what evidence he can.
you obviously missed the part of his post that stated he cannot and will not release confidential data as it's a sackable offence.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose you're referring to the likes of the Lancet Medical Journal, who published a study re: Hydroxychloroquine. Well, they were forced to withdraw the article and apologize..

As per The Guardian:
"One of the world’s leading medical journals, the Lancet, has reformed its editorial policies following a shocking case of apparent research misconduct involving the study of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

A lot of the States that tried to ban it initially have reversed that decision. Ohio being one:
"The Ohio Board of Pharmacy on Thursday reversed its decision to ban sales of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 after feedback from the medical community and a request from Gov. Mike DeWine."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/07/30/ohio-hydroxychloroquine-ban-gov-mike-dewine-urges-pharmacy-board-hold-off/5544158002/

Happy to clarify anything else for you

You can talk whatever about the US.

I'm a hospital pharmacist based in Ireland. There is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine helps with covid-19. No covid 19 protocol in Ireland has hydroxychloroquine on it. It increases risk of QT prolongation. The EMA don't approve it's use for covid 19 and in all fairness, it's a pretty **** antimalarial too.

Thierry12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can talk whatever about the US.

I'm a hospital pharmacist based in Ireland. There is no evidence that hydroxychloroquine helps with covid-19. No covid 19 protocol in Ireland has hydroxychloroquine on it. It increases risk of QT prolongation. The EMA don't approve it's use for covid 19 and in all fairness, it's a pretty **** antimalarial too.

What's the covid treatment in hospitals here btw?

Has it changed much since March?

[Deleted User]

Thierry12 wrote: »

What's the covid treatment in hospitals here btw?

Has it changed much since March?

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is gone, steroids done seem to help much, probing helps if suffering from ARDs. Only medication that is in trial at moment is remdesevir. Everything else is supportive care.

Thierry12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is gone, steroids done seem to help much, probing helps if suffering from ARDs. Only medication that is in trial at moment is remdesevir. Everything else is supportive care.

Depressing

12 months in and we've nothing

Jim2007

GazzaL wrote: »

The most realistic exit strategy is that the public won't play along with the utter nonsense being touted by NPHET and will just get on with life regardless. NPHET have no strategy, never mind an exit strategy. They will just call for lockdowns ad infinitum.

If you were told that in five years time they will discover that exposure to this virus reduces your life expectancy by 10 years, would you still think it’s nonsense?

Nonsense is exposing yourself to unnecessary risks when you have no idea of consequences and it’s even more so when solutions are in sight and all that is required is to sit on your hands and wait.

NPHET Has the same strategy and only strategy as everyone else, try to keep the risks at the minimum and play for time.

Thats me

Thierry12 wrote: »

Depressing

12 months in and we've nothing

It is not 12 months yet, but they have effective methods of treatment which obviously already helped to decrease death rate during the second wave. May be this video could explain current approaches in more details: https://youtu.be/bJZcDBTEGio

speckle

Deleted User wrote: »

How are the HSE hiding the data? It's about making sure we are understanding the data before it's published. I know of one case personally where the person tested positive in March and September (both tests via PCR). There are more in other centres. It's not huge swathes of people but it noteworthy.

It's not a conspiracy to hide the information, it's about making sure the correct analysis is released to prevent fear mongering/ fuel to the fire of anti-vaxxers.

On the other thread you said they wete doing antibody testing to prove re infection,I posted that they use pcr testing and phylo/genetic analysis. Now suddenly, you are here saying pcr testing. enough said and still no data just excuses...

speckle

And here are the hse treatment protocols and rapid assements for potential drugs etc for anyone to read.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/drugs-management-programme/covid-19/

moonage

end of the road wrote: »

the fact is, if it was effective then it would absolutely be used, why in hell would any country simply require huge resources to be spent on development of a vaccine if this was effective in treating covid? answer, they wouldn't.

Because there's no money to be made from hydroxychloroquine, even if it is effective.

[Deleted User]

speckle wrote: »

And here are the hse treatment protocols and rapid assements for potential drugs etc for anyone to read.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/acute-hospitals-division/drugs-management-programme/covid-19/

Those are protocols you are referring to, not guidelines. Look, I'm not going to publish the data. It's not mine to publish. Cases of reinfection are happening in HCPs in the HSE and I know of one personally. It's a bit worrying to say the least.

[Deleted User]

moonage wrote: »

Because there's no money to be made from hydroxychloroquine, even if it is effective.

Bingo. These guys don't seem to understand how the world actually works. Money is the answer to everything.

There's countless doctors saying it's curing their patients. Here's another. Are all these Doctor's lying, or does this massive push towards "vaccination only" have any possible connection to the billions and billions they're going to make from it? :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVs_EWVCVPc