Changes in the GAA - super thread

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 2:20pm

The money that Dublin received would have transformed any other county also. We can see from Dublin hurling, going from minnows to joining the top table. If this money was given to Kerry, they would be contenders in the hurling and unstoppable in football. You can pick any county and their level would rise similarly. It's just a fact that huge finance is at the back of all transformations, you can look at all sport and see that.
The GAA realise now that they need to act as their investment is not bringing in a return. Let's be fair, Dublin attendances have been shockingly bad. So what are they doing about it? They've decided to invest in Meath and Kildare in the hope that they'll catch up a bit. First of all, Dublin have a 14 year head start but most importantly, what about all the other counties? They are continuing with their strategy of looking short term. They have learned nothing.
Or maybe this is what they want. This is their vision now. They want to boost a certain number of teams to form an elite championship and the rest can rot in the b and c championships. Let's be honest, we know certain counties would be in favour of this and they couldn't give a sh1t about the rest. Seriously, if we don't do something soon this will all be gone. The breakaway will happen and we'll be left with nothing.
We have to get onto our county boards, we have to get our voices heard on this.

Bonniedog · 19-06-2019 2:32pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin get something like 50% of the GDF funding despite having about 10% of registered players. This is a far more relevant statistic.

If anyone is wasting money its Dublin. 15 times the GDF funding of most other counties.

That's just not true! As you well know.

Dublin does have disproportionate population for an island this size.

So all funding whether it is GAA, roads, HSE, whatever, is going to reflect that.

As a Dub, I don't think the vast swelling of Dublin is a good idea, for Dubs or the rest of the country. And if the state's plans in Project 2040 are pursued then we are heading for epic social disaster,

Wander around the Paris suburbs some time, and you will realise that kids playing hurling is the fkn least of what you need to be worried about.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 2:48pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

That's just not true! As you well know.

Dublin does have disproportionate population for an island this size.

So all funding whether it is GAA, roads, HSE, whatever, is going to reflect that.

As a Dub, I don't think the vast swelling of Dublin is a good idea, for Dubs or the rest of the country. And if the state's plans in Project 2040 are pursued then we are heading for epic social disaster,

Wander around the Paris suburbs some time, and you will realise that kids playing hurling is the fkn least of what you need to be worried about.

We've been over this. The population of Cork County is 550,000. The population of Dublin County is 1.35 million, or 2.5 times the population of Cork.

It follows that Dublin should get 2.5 times the GDF in total that Cork get, in the interests of fairness. Between 2007-2017, Dublin received 13 times the GDF of Cork.

When you look at per registered players, its even worse. Despite having only 20% more registered players 39000 v 34000, Dublin received 1300% more in GDF spend, 16.5 million vs 1.5 million.

The suggestion from GAA HQ or rather from Dublin GAA and their friend Bertie Ahern that Dublin needed a vast increase in funds to hold off other sports is nonsense. Most counties have the same issue, particularly counties like Cork where rugby, soccer, athletics, basketball, etc are strong. Dublin is not the exception when it comes to competition from other sports.

Bonniedog · 19-06-2019 3:36pm

You said Dublin gets 50% of GDF.

It doesn't.

You just make stuff up.

rebel girl 15 · 19-06-2019 3:51pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You said Dublin gets 50% of GDF.

It doesn't.

You just make stuff up.

Lot of rubbish made up to be honest to suit people’s arguments. Pity we’ll never hear it at Congress as a lot prefer to soapbox on here than take action.

I have to say one of the major successes is the Celtic Challenge - a lot more young lads playing for counties - first time every county is participating in. Seems to be pretty under them the radar of most GAA fans. Really like the concepts they have pulled from Australian Rules - and to get a big sponsor onboard as well as live streaming the finals is excellent and unnoticed work. 20%of Leitrims Lory Meagher panel came through that competition.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 4:31pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You said Dublin gets 50% of GDF.

It doesn't.

You just make stuff up.

Its here.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/dublin-receive-e15-million-more-than-any-other-county-in-games-development-grants-over-the-last-decade-149534

Dublin received 16.6 over 10 years.
As for the rest combined, the totals are in McGoldrick's tweet. It works out at a total of approximately 18 million. So slightly more than Dublin's.

But that doesn't factor in a multitude of other income resources Dublin have over and above the other counties, such as record shirt sponsorship deals.

The comments from Duffy on the state of Dublin makes him sound like the PRO for Dublin football.

Duffy wrote in his GAA Ard Stiúrthóir report:
"In achieving their five All-Ireland titles in the past seven years, the margin of victory was a single point in four finals (one after a replay) and a three-point victory over Kerry in 2015.
"This hardly constitutes evidence of a county stream-rolling over all opposition, or proof of the need to divide a county because it is vastly superior to the rest and must be broken up into two or three divisions for inter-competition.
"The history of our games, and of sport in general, tells us that Dublin won't win forever. Apart from that, there are a couple of observations to be made.
"First, the main reason for Dublin's current success is that they have an outstanding group of players and an exceptional team management.
"One of the reasons why Dublin footballers generate support is that they give Dubliners a unique opportunity to celebrate their proud Dublin identity.
"While it may well be a mild and humorous northside/southside divide in Dublin, this geographical affiliation comes nowhere near matching the passionate identification of all Dubliners with their team.
"One is led to wonder if the 'divide Dublin' proponents have given any thought to what the GAA would lose if Dublin were to be split. Have they given any thought to what Dubliners would lose?
"And is the sight of Dublin supporters on Hill 16 not one of the great spectacles in Irish sport? And are we not all looking forward to seeing Dublin supporters in their thousands heading out to Dublin city to follow their team, which the championship format from 2018 will allow?
"So, neither on competitive grounds, nor on account of the unfairness of depriving Dubliners of the pleasure of expressing their local historical identity through the GAA (as every other GAA supporter is allowed to do) should we countenance the splitting up of Dublin.
"There is all to lose in doing so, and nothing to gain."

Someone pass me a bucket.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 4:57pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

That's just not true! As you well know.

Dublin does have disproportionate population for an island this size.

So all funding whether it is GAA, roads, HSE, whatever, is going to reflect that.

As a Dub, I don't think the vast swelling of Dublin is a good idea, for Dubs or the rest of the country. And if the state's plans in Project 2040 are pursued then we are heading for epic social disaster,

Wander around the Paris suburbs some time, and you will realise that kids playing hurling is the fkn least of what you need to be worried about.

Dublin received funds way out of proportion with population size. If you look at the link ToBeFrank provided for you, you will see that every other county got between 500,000 and 1.1 million throughout the decade they covered (the split between Dublin and the rest was actually more in 2006 and 2005). The overwhelming amount of counties got between 500,000 and 800,000. Basically, every county was fairly equal in terms of funding, Dublin were galaxies out in front.
You do make a good point about population. With the growth predictions for Dublin, it's not logical to continue as is. Change on the way but the social change is something we all need to look at. Not for this thread though.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 4:57pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

The money that Dublin received would have transformed any other county also. We can see from Dublin hurling, going from minnows to joining the top table. If this money was given to Kerry, they would be contenders in the hurling and unstoppable in football. You can pick any county and their level would rise similarly. It's just a fact that huge finance is at the back of all transformations, you can look at all sport and see that.
The GAA realise now that they need to act as their investment is not bringing in a return. Let's be fair, Dublin attendances have been shockingly bad. So what are they doing about it? They've decided to invest in Meath and Kildare in the hope that they'll catch up a bit. First of all, Dublin have a 14 year head start but most importantly, what about all the other counties? They are continuing with their strategy of looking short term. They have learned nothing.
Or maybe this is what they want. This is their vision now. They want to boost a certain number of teams to form an elite championship and the rest can rot in the b and c championships. Let's be honest, we know certain counties would be in favour of this and they couldn't give a sh1t about the rest. Seriously, if we don't do something soon this will all be gone. The breakaway will happen and we'll be left with nothing.
We have to get onto our county boards, we have to get our voices heard on this.

Meath and Kildare are growing counties with GAA blackspots where the game has failed to establish itself at grassroot level in growing population centres. This is the same problem that the Dublin funding was designed to address.

It is not about investing in Meath and Kildare to see will they catch up a bit, it is about grassroot investment to spread the game to new areas.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 4:58pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

Dublin received funds way out of proportion with population size. If you look at the link ToBeFrank provided for you, you will see that every other county got between 500,000 and 1.1 million throughout the decade they covered (the split between Dublin and the rest was actually more in 2006 and 2005). The overwhelming amount of counties got between 500,000 and 800,000. Basically, every county was fairly equal in terms of funding, Dublin were galaxies out in front.
You do make a good point about population. With the growth predictions for Dublin, it's not logical to continue as is. Change on the way but the social change is something we all need to look at. Not for this thread though.

The figures have changed in recent years, as the links that have been provided make clear.

Dublin received 14% of the funding for 20% of the population in 2016, for example.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 4:58pm

As for registered players, I don't have time to add up the numbers, but it looks like there are about 380,000 registered players in Ireland.

Dublin have 39,000 registered players. So about 10% of the total.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

Quoting total population is irrelevant. You don't use GDF to train old people FFS! Or people playing other sports.

GDF is used to fund training of registered players, nothing more. If you register with a club, you will be trained by the club. And over 10 years Dublin received slightly less than 50% of total GDF despite having only about 10% of registered players.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:01pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Meath and Kildare are growing counties with GAA blackspots where the game has failed to establish itself at grassroot level in growing population centres. This is the same problem that the Dublin funding was designed to address.

It is not about investing in Meath and Kildare to see will they catch up a bit, it is about grassroot investment to spread the game to new areas.

It is very much about investing in Kildare and Meath so they catch up. Look what the money has done for Dublin, it's a game changer.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:03pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The figures have changed in recent years, as the links that have been provided make clear.

Dublin received 14% of the funding for 20% of the population in 2016, for example.

You can't ignore the huge chasm in funding for over a decade. As I said, every other county was fairly equal. Dublin were the odd ones out.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 5:05pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Meath and Kildare are growing counties with GAA blackspots where the game has failed to establish itself at grassroot level in growing population centres. This is the same problem that the Dublin funding was designed to address.

It is not about investing in Meath and Kildare to see will they catch up a bit, it is about grassroot investment to spread the game to new areas.

There's a catch 22 with that. Meath and Kildare are struggling to spread the game because of the monster that is Dublin next door. Kids are rightly abandoning GAA sports as they haven't a hope of ever winning silverware at IC senior level in the current circumstances. This is another byproduct of the skewed funding landscape. No amount of changing around the championship will alter this or the fact Meath and Kildare despite trying their utmost with limited funds can expect regular thrashings by Dublin.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:07pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As for registered players, I don't have time to add up the numbers, but it looks like there are about 380,000 registered players in Ireland.

Dublin have 39,000 registered players. So about 10% of the total.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

Quoting total population is irrelevant. You don't use GDF to train old people FFS! Or people playing other sports.

GDF is used to fund training of registered players, nothing more. If you register with a club, you will be trained by the club. And over 10 years Dublin received slightly less than 50% of total GDF despite having only about 10% of registered players.

That really is crazy. It's impossible to justify that.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 5:07pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's a catch 22 with that. Meath and Kildare are struggling to spread the game because of the monster that is Dublin next door. Kids are rightly abandoning GAA sports as they haven't a hope of ever winning silverware at IC senior level in the current circumstances. This is another byproduct of the skewed funding landscape. No amount of changing around the championship will alter this or the fact Meath and Kildare despite trying their utmost with limited funds can expect regular thrashings by Dublin.

7-year old kids don't decide what game to play depending on whether they have a chance of winning an All-Ireland, that is a ridiculous notion.

The Lost Sheep · 19-06-2019 5:09pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's a catch 22 with that. Meath and Kildare are struggling to spread the game because of the monster that is Dublin next door. Kids are rightly abandoning GAA sports as they haven't a hope of ever winning silverware at IC senior level in the current circumstances. This is another byproduct of the skewed funding landscape. No amount of changing around the championship will alter this or the fact Meath and Kildare despite trying their utmost with limited funds can expect regular thrashings by Dublin.

is there anything available to prove Kildare and Meath are 1 struggling to spread the game and 2 struggling to do that because of Dublin.
Kids dont stop playing at younger ages especially because in the tiniest liklihood that they actually make the senior inter county squad that they wont win one of the 3/4 competitions they can ever play in. If that was case then a lot of counties would have disbanded years ago

salmocab · 19-06-2019 5:09pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's a catch 22 with that. Meath and Kildare are struggling to spread the game because of the monster that is Dublin next door. Kids are rightly abandoning GAA sports as they haven't a hope of ever winning silverware at IC senior level in the current circumstances.

By that rationale no funding should be given to Leitrim as they will never win any silverware.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 5:11pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As for registered players, I don't have time to add up the numbers, but it looks like there are about 380,000 registered players in Ireland.

Dublin have 39,000 registered players. So about 10% of the total.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/gaa-investment-in-dublin-348120

Quoting total population is irrelevant. You don't use GDF to train old people FFS! Or people playing other sports.

GDF is used to fund training of registered players, nothing more. If you register with a club, you will be trained by the club. And over 10 years Dublin received slightly less than 50% of total GDF despite having only about 10% of registered players.

Thank you for eloquently making the case for Game Development Funding. If Dublin have 20% of the population, but only 10% of the registered players, that means that they need funding to catch up on where they should be. The key is in the word development.

It is not the Game Coaching Fund, it is not the "help the Tyrones, Meaths and Mayos" fund, it is not even the "make everything equal" fund, it is the Game Development Fund.

It would be interesting to see accurate figures from the GAA totals as to whether there has been an increase in the number of registered players over the decade.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:12pm

blanch152 wrote: »

7-year old kids don't decide what game to play depending on whether they have a chance of winning an All-Ireland, that is a ridiculous notion.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

is there anything available to prove Kildare and Meath are 1 struggling to spread the game and 2 struggling to do that because of Dublin.
Kids dont stop playing at younger ages especially because in the tiniest liklihood that they actually make the senior inter county squad that they wont win one of the 3/4 competitions they can ever play in. If that was case then a lot of counties would have disbanded years ago

salmocab wrote: »

By that rationale no funding should be given to Leitrim as they will never win any silverware.

The parents decide where the kids go. The numbers of people following counties like Kildare and Meath have dropped hugely. They aren't interested in the Leinster championship as it became a farce. Who can blame them when you look at the funding numbers? And who could blame them if they decided their kids were better off playing rugby or other sports?

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:15pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Thank you for eloquently making the case for Game Development Funding. If Dublin have 20% of the population, but only 10% of the registered players, that means that they need funding to catch up on where they should be. The key is in the word development.

It is not the Game Coaching Fund, it is not the "help the Tyrones, Meaths and Mayos" fund, it is not even the "make everything equal" fund, it is the Game Development Fund.

It would be interesting to see accurate figures from the GAA totals as to whether there has been an increase in the number of registered players over the decade.

If you're going down that road, then what have you got against giving Tyrone 50% more funding than everybody else? It's games development after all, the registered players don't come close to their population size.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 5:15pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

The parents decide where the kids go. The numbers of people following counties like Kildare and Meath have dropped hugely. They aren't interested in the Leinster championship as it became a farce. Who can blame them when you look at the numbers? And who could blame them if they decided their kids were better off playing rugby or other sports?

The vast majority of parents have little or no interest in the senior inter-county game, they are only interested in their Johnny and Mary having a good time. That is what the local club gives them.

I have spent an awful lot of time standing on sidelines over the years chatting to parents - half of them wouldn't even have a clue that Dublin were playing that weekend.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 5:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

7-year old kids don't decide what game to play depending on whether they have a chance of winning an All-Ireland, that is a ridiculous notion.

No, but teenagers do, up to and including minor level. When you lose them at that stage, you lose them for good, bar the odd exception.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen in Dublin too, it does. But Dublin can afford to lose a lot of talented youngsters, Meath cannot.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 5:18pm

Farawayhome wrote: »

If you're going down that road, then what have you got against giving Tyrone 50% more funding than everybody else? It's games development after all, the registered players don't come close to their population size.

I think I already addressed the Tyrone issue earlier when I said that "a cross-community proposal to bring GAA to the unionist community in Northern Ireland would deserve significant funding." The development funding should be used to address low participation rates in a careful planned way focussed on the reasons for the low participation.

blanch152 wrote: »

In 2016, Dublin got 14% of the funding, not 50%, despite having over 20% of the population on the island.

The purpose of the funding is Games Development. That means bringing the games to new areas, new population centres, and new people. The nature of that funding therefore means that it should be based on population and need, not registered players.

For example, a county with a falling population would not need development funding. On the other hand, a cross-community proposal to bring GAA to the unionist community in Northern Ireland would deserve significant funding. Ditto a costed well-thought out plan to develop football in Limerick City would be deserving.

Funding per registered player is meaningless in this context.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:19pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The vast majority of parents have little or no interest in the senior inter-county game, they are only interested in their Johnny and Mary having a good time. That is what the local club gives them.

I have spent an awful lot of time standing on sidelines over the years chatting to parents - half of them wouldn't even have a clue that Dublin were playing that weekend.

And a lot of parents do have a huge interest in inter county games.

blanch152 · 19-06-2019 5:20pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

No, but teenagers do, up to and including minor level. When you lose them at that stage, you lose them for good, bar the odd exception.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen in Dublin too, it does. But Dublin can afford to lose a lot of talented youngsters, Meath cannot.

Again, at those ages, alcohol, going to college and sexual relations have a far bigger influence on sporting decisions than whether or not you are going to win an All-Ireland medal.

ToBeFrank123 · 19-06-2019 5:22pm

Your use of population statistics is completely misleading.

The UK has 65 million of a population, yes might have only 10,000 registered GAA players.

If we are to follow your logic Blanch, the UK should be receiving tens of millions because of their huge population. In reality they should be receiving just enough to train the 10,000 registered players.

Unless of course you'd like to see Dublin's money used in the UK to grow the sport there? Of course you wouldn't.

You have no interest in the health of the sport, only an interest in the health of Dublin. Take off the blinkers for a while and look beyond Dublin. Objectivity is a great thing, you should try it sometime.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 5:24pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I think I already addressed the Tyrone issue earlier when I said that "a cross-community proposal to bring GAA to the unionist community in Northern Ireland would deserve significant funding." The development funding should be used to address low participation rates in a careful planned way focussed on the reasons for the low participation.

Then why did you say this?

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not the Game Coaching Fund, it is not the "help the Tyrones, Meaths and Mayos" fund

So now you're saying the 6 counties should have been receiving far more funding. You'd have to say they'd need to be funded to a higher level than Dublin going on your population v playing numbers theory.
Basically, you're tieing yourself up in knots here.

salmocab · 19-06-2019 5:26pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Objectivity is a great thing.

Indeed it is

Jaden · 19-06-2019 5:36pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

GDF is used to fund training of registered players, nothing more.

In a thread rife with inaccuracy, this one is a contender for the "No, the run rises in the west" award for most inaccurate statement.

You cannot reason your way out of a place you didn't reason your way into.

Farawayhome · 19-06-2019 6:00pm

Jaden wrote: »

In a thread rife with inaccuracy, this one is a contender for the "No, the run rises in the west" award for most inaccurate statement.

You cannot reason your way out of a place you didn't reason your way into.

The fund is mostly spent on coaches. We've pointed out the huge disparity between Dublin and the rest in this area but we haven't really gone near what happens next.

The paid coaches do their jobs going into schools, taking sessions in clubs etc but also identifying elite talent. They send their reports on this to the various regional development officers or hurling development officers. From here they are put into the elite development squads. The elite squads are where the huge difference is made when it comes to the inter county scene in both codes at underage and senior.
They have the best facilities in the country available to them, the best strength and conditioning coaches and all the latest in sports science techniques designed to create athletes ready for the modern game. These squads are also well looked after in terms of gear and equipment. The whole system with the paid coaches firstly and then the elite squads have resulted in unprecedented levels of success for Dublin across the board.
In fairness, when you look at the figures, how could it not?

Dots1982 · 19-06-2019 9:15pm

It’s sad how bitter and twisted these discussions and those outside Dublin have become. They can’t be blamed as when you have one county getting 18 million in development funds and the next getting 1.6 million (and that doesn’t even include the 5 million Bertie set aside for Dublin GAA) its natural people become exasperated.

The craziest thing is dublin GAA do almost no fundraising. They earned 60k in fundraising as shown in their accounts recently and that’s the average year on year. The likes of Mayo and Kerry break their balls to fund raise millions. It’s wrong ..all wrong but its the GAA’s fault.

The last decade could have been a great era if they pumped funds into other counties as Dublin took advantage of the population to produce better teams. Instead the GAA followed a completely wrong policy and pumped money into the most well resourced county and have idiotically killed their own biggest revenue source in the process...A complete cluster**** of epic proportions.

I don’t debate it much anymore as Boards.ie are dying to close down discussions of the Dublin problem.

The media carry a huge portion of the blame as well. This should have been getting discussed on the The Sunday Game 10 years ago as some of us could see the signs then that Leinster was in trouble. The Media waited far too long to complain about the huge imbalance of development funds.

I don’t see a split in Dublin happening, certainly not in isolation. I think it will become far more radical. I have felt this for 2 years. The game will go pro and counties will amalgamate into 10 or 12 regions. The Aidan O’sheas and Ciaran Kilkenny’s etc hold all the power in the GAA today. They generate millions in revenue and will eventually want their slice. In comparison counties like Sligo and Louth and about 12 others contribute nothing to the GAA’s coffers. They need to join with other counties to become regions and then you will have a competition model worth watching.

The intercounty model is out of date. Ireland is becoming more centred around urban areas. No county from the bottom half of the population table have won an ireland since the early 80s.

It’s a question of when GAA goes pro not if.

blanch152 · 20-06-2019 10:26am

Farawayhome wrote: »

Then why did you say this?

So now you're saying the 6 counties should have been receiving far more funding. You'd have to say they'd need to be funded to a higher level than Dublin going on your population v playing numbers theory.
Basically, you're tieing yourself up in knots here.

Again, that is not what I said. I said that the first thing is to put in place a plan for a costed, grounded initiative focussed on juvenile participation.

There is no confusion. The GDF money isn't to help anyone win an All-Ireland, it is to increase participation. So there is absolutely no contradiction between saying that it is not a fund to "help the Tyrones, Meaths and Mayos" win an All-Ireland, and also saying that "a cross-community proposal to bring GAA to the unionist community in Northern Ireland would deserve significant funding."

Like others on here, who have a focus purely on the county game and on All-Ireland outcomes, you are missing the whole point about what the money is for.

ToBeFrank123 · 20-06-2019 11:09am

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, that is not what I said. I said that the first thing is to put in place a plan for a costed, grounded initiative focussed on juvenile participation.

There is no confusion. The GDF money isn't to help anyone win an All-Ireland, it is to increase participation. So there is absolutely no contradiction between saying that it is not a fund to "help the Tyrones, Meaths and Mayos" win an All-Ireland, and also saying that "a cross-community proposal to bring GAA to the unionist community in Northern Ireland would deserve significant funding."

Like others on here, who have a focus purely on the county game and on All-Ireland outcomes, you are missing the whole point about what the money is for.

Blanch, one thing I'd question. We all agree Dublin has a large population, two and a half times more than Cork for example. And yet the registered numbers of players are similar, 34,000 for Cork vs 39,000 for Dublin. Dublin's player registration rate also looks to be far behind other major counties.

So it looks like despite all the efforts to increase participation in Dublin, player registration is still relatively low. And player registration would represent people serious about playing the game, not someone who received some training in national school from a games development officer but then never registered with a club.

Would it be the case, that people from non Irish backgrounds are not taking up the sport or registering in large numbers with Dublin clubs? You'd expect some clubs in Dublin to have at least half the team from non Irish backgrounds if it reflected the general population.

Interested to hear your opinions.

I still think the GAA is having problems getting players from a non Irish Catholic background to play the sport, but maybe that is changing at underage level? I wouldn't consider one or two non Irish on a team to be a significant improvement.

Bonniedog · 20-06-2019 11:12am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Would it be the case, that people from non Irish backgrounds are not taking up the sport or registering in sufficient numbers with Dublin clubs? Interested to hear your opinions.

There is minimal interest by non Irish people in GAA, and that's 25% of the city population, maybe more, and expanding.

ToBeFrank123 · 20-06-2019 12:11pm

Its questionable why after millions of GDF funds to Dublin over 15 years, the player registration rate remains relatively low. Participation doesn't appear to be seriously raised. You'd have to query the cost-benefits in this regard. Looks like a lot of money thrown at the low participation rate with a relatively small increase.

I wouldn't consider children handpassing a ball in a playground with a games development officer and then never playing the sport again "participation".

Dots1982 · 20-06-2019 12:43pm

Have heard of anecdotal stories of Dublin Clubs like na fianna & kilmacud having 10 different teams at underage levels.

Not sure I buy the stories that participation rates aren’t increasing.

And that non national kids won’t play GAA because their parents didn’t play it. Sounds like BS to me. Kids play whatever is there to be played.

ToBeFrank123 · 20-06-2019 2:08pm

Dots1982 wrote: »

Have heard of anecdotal stories of Dublin Clubs like na fianna & kilmacud having 10 different teams at underage levels.

Not sure I buy the stories that participation rates aren’t increasing.

And that non national kids won’t play GAA because their parents didn’t play it. Sounds like BS to me. Kids play whatever is there to be played.

The anecdote of 10 different teams at underage level wouldn't be too surprising.

Dublin has two and half times the population of Cork but only about half the clubs, with slightly more registered players. So you'd expect 5 times more players on average per club in Dublin, although because of the relatively low participation rate in Dublin, it could be less in some cases. I'm sure there are densely populated areas of Cork where there are 2 two teams for some age groups. Because of Dublins large population but relatively low number of clubs, player numbers will be huge at some clubs, although not all. It means fierce competition for places on the first team. It also means the games development officers don't have to go around to as many clubs, saving them time.

Cork I believe have only 10 games development officers or something like that, spread out over the largest county and 259 clubs. So roughly one officer per 26 clubs.

Dots1982 · 20-06-2019 2:43pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The anecdote of 10 different teams at underage level wouldn't be too surprising.

Dublin has two and half times the population of Cork but only about half the clubs, with slightly more registered players. So you'd expect 5 times more players on average per club in Dublin, although because of the relatively low participation rate in Dublin, it could be less in some cases. I'm sure there are densely populated areas of Cork where there are 2 two teams for some age groups. Because of Dublins large population but relatively low number of clubs, player numbers will be huge at some clubs, although not all. It means fierce competition for places on the first team. It also means the games development officers don't have to go around to as many clubs, saving them time.

Cork I believe have only 10 games development officers or something like that, spread out over the largest county and 259 clubs. So roughly one officer per 26 clubs.

Interesting thing about cork is their cul camps get 13k kids attending. Dublin get 9k. Everyone else is way back.

It’s just black and white, the future of Gaelic football belongs to the big urban centers and probably Kerry as they are the “magic men” of the sport.

The competition structure will have to eventually catch up.

It’s such a mess at the moment.

Dots1982 · 20-06-2019 2:47pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The anecdote of 10 different teams at underage level wouldn't be too surprising.

Dublin has two and half times the population of Cork but only about half the clubs, with slightly more registered players. So you'd expect 5 times more players on average per club in Dublin, although because of the relatively low participation rate in Dublin, it could be less in some cases. I'm sure there are densely populated areas of Cork where there are 2 two teams for some age groups. Because of Dublins large population but relatively low number of clubs, player numbers will be huge at some clubs, although not all. It means fierce competition for places on the first team. It also means the games development officers don't have to go around to as many clubs, saving them time.

Cork I believe have only 10 games development officers or something like that, spread out over the largest county and 259 clubs. So roughly one officer per 26 clubs.

You also mentioned the games development officers in Dublin. Interesting stat on them is that Dublin has more GAA games development officers than the whole country has in FAI games development staff

And some soccer folk say soccer is the biggest sport in the country....

ToBeFrank123 · 20-06-2019 2:56pm

Dots1982 wrote: »

You also mentioned the games development officers in Dublin. Interesting stat on them is that Dublin has more GAA games development officers than the whole country has in FAI games development staff

And some soccer folk say soccer is the biggest sport in the country....

That's really interesting about Dublin having more GDOs than the FAI! And the FAI are hoping to train their players to a professional or premier league standard.

GDOs seem to be the difference between success and failure and will be in future. Its now all based on very scientific development and as you say the concentration of players in centres of excellence. Dublin have a headstart on this, huge numbers of players centred in relatively few clubs, making the most of the GDOs and facilities. Large rural counties with low population densities are at a disadvantage.

The whole thing is very interesting but at the same time, if trends continue as you say, counties with large urban centres such as Limerick, Galway and Dublin will dominate in football and hurling. I'm guessing Corks disadvantage is that hurling is popular in the city but football is more rural. Or else rugby and soccer dominate in urban centres.

blanch152 · 21-06-2019 12:10am

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's really interesting about Dublin having more GDOs than the FAI! And the FAI are hoping to train their players to a professional or premier league standard.

GDOs seem to be the difference between success and failure and will be in future. Its now all based on very scientific development and as you say the concentration of players in centres of excellence. Dublin have a headstart on this, huge numbers of players centred in relatively few clubs, making the most of the GDOs and facilities. Large rural counties with low population densities are at a disadvantage.

The whole thing is very interesting but at the same time, if trends continue as you say, counties with large urban centres such as Limerick, Galway and Dublin will dominate in football and hurling. I'm guessing Corks disadvantage is that hurling is popular in the city but football is more rural. Or else rugby and soccer dominate in urban centres.

A complete misunderstanding of the reality on the ground. GDOs are not about training players to a professional standard. If you want to get an idea of the extent of underage competition in Dublin, browse this site.

https://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/juvenile

Have a look at the number of teams, then have a think about the organisation that underpins that. Nothing to do with the senior team, all to do with giving the ordinary kid the chance to play the game.

It is a real shame that so many posters on here want to take away that opportunity purely in the short-term interest of their county winning an All-Ireland. Nothing would be hollower than a Mayo or a Meath winning an All-Ireland because the money was taken away from looking after kids so that they could mollycoddle their senior teams.

Bonniedog · 21-06-2019 12:16am

The fact that our friend is bigging up the monumentally corrupt and incompetent FAI says it all really.

Shares the same hatred for Dublin GAA that those losers do, strangely enough. Well, not that strangely.

Dots1982 · 21-06-2019 6:59am

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a real shame that so many posters on here want to take away that opportunity purely in the short-term interest of their county winning an All-Ireland. Nothing would be hollower than a Mayo or a Meath winning an All-Ireland because the money was taken away from looking after kids so that they could mollycoddle their senior teams.

Dublin GAA fundraiser 60k a year while other counties raise millions. If the money was taken away Dublin could make an effort to fundraise.

ToBeFrank123 · 21-06-2019 9:53am

blanch152 wrote: »

A complete misunderstanding of the reality on the ground. GDOs are not about training players to a professional standard. If you want to get an idea of the extent of underage competition in Dublin, browse this site.

https://www.dublingaa.ie/competitions/juvenile

Have a look at the number of teams, then have a think about the organisation that underpins that. Nothing to do with the senior team, all to do with giving the ordinary kid the chance to play the game.

It is a real shame that so many posters on here want to take away that opportunity purely in the short-term interest of their county winning an All-Ireland. Nothing would be hollower than a Mayo or a Meath winning an All-Ireland because the money was taken away from looking after kids so that they could mollycoddle their senior teams.

FFS. Did I say gaelic players were being trained to a professional standard? I said soccer players were being trained to a professional standard. So well done for the big fat lie. I won't hold my breath for an apology.

As for training young kids, questions have been asked why Dublin received 13 times more than Cork over 10 years despite having only 20% more registered players and 2 and half times the population. Dublin are throwing millions at the problem of participation but its failed to see a significant increase in registered players. Dublin is hugely below the player registration rates of virtually every other county - these are facts that even you cannot dispute. And please spare the stock answer "won't you think of the Dublin kids?".

I was hoping for a minute you'd take off your Dublin jersey to discuss objectively some things. Instead you pulled it on even tighter and got even more defensive which appears to be the stock Dublin supporter response. No interest in the overall health of gaelic football, only in the health of Dublin football. I've yet to meet a Dublin supporter who thinks otherwise or wants to level the playing field, other than some nonsense about amalgamating counties.

And anyone who thinks GDF funding doesn't help senior success long term is talking nonsense. What we have seen in Dublin is exactly what you warned against, senior success yet a pathetic rise in serious participation rate unless you consider some kid handpassing a ball in a school yard and never joining a club participation? The money is being concentrated on players who have potential to give them an advantage over other counties with the best resources thrown at them. After that a token effort is being made to increase participation rates which has failed abysmally. Very few if any non nationals are on Dublin county teams, male or female, at any level. This is one example of the failure to seriously increase participation.

Dublin funding represents to me everything that has failed with the GAA over the last 15 years.

ToBeFrank123 · 21-06-2019 10:03am

Bonniedog wrote: »

The fact that our friend is bigging up the monumentally corrupt and incompetent FAI says it all really.

Shares the same hatred for Dublin GAA that those losers do, strangely enough. Well, not that strangely.

My beef is with the GAA and the way they distribute funds.

Reported your post as its just the usual insults without any serious discussion, a common tactic from supporters of one county it seems when you start to talk about funding imbalances which are a fact not an opinion.

STB. · 22-06-2019 9:03pm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

My beef is with the GAA and the way they distribute funds.

Reported your post as its just the usual insults without any serious discussion, a common tactic from supporters of one county it seems when you start to talk about funding imbalances which are a fact not an opinion.

You can continue your spat with Bonnie, but......

Funding imbalances my backside. The GAA want as many playing the game as possible regardless of where it is. The competition to get kids playing x sport is very competitive in Dublin as there are more sports that can take them away from the GAA.

Its not rocket science that large population centres will always get more funding as a result.

I gather that the Dublin County Board are not spending this money on genetically modified players. There are only 15 men on each team on the field at one time.

The arguments here about the far reach of what GDOs do in Soccer and what they do in GAA couldn't be more far removed.

The same old nonsense is trotted out when someone from one county wonders why the big bad dubs can beat every one with ease.

It hasn't always been this way (1995 to 2010 for a start). Its first about getting as many playing as possible, and hoping the cream will come to the top. The Dubs are just in a fortunate position that they have a squad of players now that are very good not alone in skillfullness, but also fitness. Individually they give up some amount of time for the game to get to that level. Is this true of all players in every county ?

Beechwoodspark · 23-06-2019 10:16am

As I have said many times before simply on the basis of the population numbers Dublin should be split into 4 for a trial period.

The financial doping scandal of course has to be resolved also. No more bonanzas for Dublin. Also the level of investment in Dublin over the last 2 decades has to be taken into account. The other counties have to play catch up with them due to this situation being allowed to arise.

Ideally after the catch up period there should be Same level of funding proportionate to playing population so the player in Leitrim for example gets the same level as Dublin. That is not rocket science.

My advice would be that every county delegate in Congress demand the above and introduce a reporting structure so that the funding can be verified. Quarterly reports.

Also, I would suggest a tribunal of investigation into how things were allowed to get so bad in the first place.

STB. · 23-06-2019 3:48pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

As I have said many times before simply on the basis of the population numbers Dublin should be split into 4 for a trial period.

The financial doping scandal of course has to be resolved also. No more bonanzas for Dublin. blah blah blah.

Strange that the same calls for splitting Dublin weren't so vociferous between 1995 and 2011.
.
Financial doping, my backside.

Doping suggests cheating.

If there are only 15 men from each team on the pitch at any one time, you shouldn't need to look for straws to grasp at to make excuses for why your team isn't up to the mark.

Green eyed monsters.:)

Beechwoodspark · 23-06-2019 4:58pm

STB. wrote: »

Strange that the same calls for splitting Dublin weren't so vociferous between 1995 and 2011.
.
Financial doping, my backside.

Doping suggests cheating.

If there are only 15 men from each team on the pitch at any one time, you shouldn't need to look for straws to grasp at to make excuses for why your team isn't up to the mark.

Green eyed monsters.:)

I’d respectfully suggest u should go back and read say the last 5 pages of this thread and you will gain some knowledge on the deep inequalities in the gaa and unfair advantages that Dublin enjoy currently. Shameful stuff.

Beechwoodspark · 23-06-2019 5:42pm

The main thing is the huge huge advantages Dublin have over the rest of the country. Financial being the main one and also of course sheer numbers.

Ludicrously unfair.

I’d go so far to say Dublin have “doped” their way to success. I don’t mean by using banned substances but by financial means.

The phrase “throw your medals in the bin because you got them from cheating” sums it up well.

The eternally smug Jim G, The dubs team and fans know this but it’s taboo to admit it openly.

A good number admit as much when it is raised especially after the latest empty “win” and a few pints are had.

It will continue to ruin it until substantial reforms are implemented.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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