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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

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Comments

  • #52
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

    https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

    Horrible stuff.


    https://www.yapfiles.ru/show/2389064/df87274cfc5ebb66c5ae5d64a31869a7.mp4.html


  • #53
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It was a joke I'd say.

    It was. Joke aren't permitted by some either. Never mind on sure it will pass.
    Il keep on trucking


  • #54
    Maxpfizer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Maxpfizer


    iamstop wrote: »
    If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
    1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
    2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
    2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
    3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
    3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

    Thanks for the explanation. I would like some clarity on a couple of points.

    What if my belief is that police should not be killing civilians at all ever? Certainly not unarmed civilians. Certainly not during the process of making an arrest? It seems contradictory to me to not want cops to kill anyone at all but also only to express outrage when cops kill someone from a specific race.

    If the issue is that police are killing people of a particular race disproportionately then surely this means there is a proportionate level of killing that you would deem acceptable?

    For example:
    A community has 30 people from Group A and 70 people from Group B.
    Police killed 10 people last year. 6 from Group A and 4 from Group B.
    It's disproportionate and so people are outraged.

    Are we saying that so long as the cops keep their killing to 3 people from Group A and 7 people from Group B then we are OK with it?

    Surely the issue, the MAIN issue, is that cops have killed 10 people, regardless of race?

    It seems incredibly strange to me that the issue is not that cops are killing civilians but that they are killing a particular demographic at the wrong rate.

    Cops: Killing civilians.
    Social Media: This is fine. Nothing to see here.
    Cops: Continue killing but killing a few too many people from one group.
    Social Media: HEY NOW! This is disproportionate!

    How can you sit back and accept police killings of different groups, only becoming outraged when the killings become disproportionate, and then sit there with a straight face and accuse others of being terrible humans?

    I don't use any of the hashtags because I think it's all bullsh!t.
    I reckon cops should not be killing unarmed civilians. Full stop.
    That's not a racial issue.

    Once you introduce the concept of "disproportionate killing" into the mix it becomes a racial issue because you have stopped being concerned that the police are killing people in general and are only concerned that the are killing too many people from one section of society.

    Or are you saying that the cops need to get down to killing people in line with the demographics of the particular country in question and THEN we'll get on to "all lives matter"?

    Seems easier to just be outraged every single time the cops kill and unarmed civilian, regardless of race.

    Apparently in 2018 there were 150 police officers killed in the line of duty in the USA. With the cops killing an absolutely frightening 992 civilians (451 white, 229 black, 165 hispanic, 40 other, 107 unkown).

    Now THAT looks, to me, like an extremely serious social issue that transcends race.

    You can't seriously be suggesting that if the cops had maybe kept the killing of black Americans down to say 150 or so then everything would be fine?

    Looking at those stats why would the campaign be anything other than "all lives matter"?


  • #55
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    I'm a bit confused.
    Reading the first page, I came across a quoted post:
    Originally Posted by DelaneyIn viewpost.gif
    Irish lives matter. You flutes need to understand that and stop protesting over a convicted armed robber, who put a gun to a pregnant woman, when we are at the height of a global pandemic.
    But can't find the original post. Was it deleted, or removed?


  • #56
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Little point in going on about blacks lives mattering if someone has no regard for any other lives.
    Injuring/insulting/dismissing someone for not supporting a cause is, to me, the opposite of what the point of the exercise is.

    I've never done social media and it's issues like this that make me glad I never have nor never will.


  • #57
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    To the well meaning (and otherwise) #alllivesmatter folk. First off it was a response designed to counter #blacklivesmatter not support it. Second, if you're Irish, imagine if during the famine or time of the Black and Tans the Irish had #irishlivesmatter what would the response #alllivesmatter look like? At best a bit dismissive. The Black community, (and their supporters) see their lives are been given less value and are speaking up about it, not saying all other lives don't matter. It needs to be addressed not countered or dismissed.

    When Colin Kaepernick kneeled to protest as far up as the President lost their minds and there was instant backlash. Black people were and are still suffering.


  • #58
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    Yeah he’s right, Floyd had been in prison 5 times and once put a handgun to the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion he was committing with others.
    This I did not know.


  • #59
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    Yeah he’s right, Floyd had been in prison 5 times and once put a handgun to the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion he was committing with others.

    He got murdered by a cop (with 17 complaints under his belt) for passing a forged note, (we don't know if he even knew).
    The police do not carry out summary executions. You are trying to justify murder over possession of a bent note.

    Just to note: I see a lot of the same folk doing their civic duty 'concerned' we might be getting too sympathetic on the wrong side of this race issue are the same folk helped us out before we got too overly sympathetic for the #metoo movement. Your insecurity racism and bigotry, passed as reasoned debate, disgusts me TBH. Let groups who feel nobody is listening have five minutes ffs.


  • #60
    Warbeastrior
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Warbeastrior


    Why do people feel the need for #AllLivesMatter is my question?
    Like there are a lot of racism towards black people in the US (Doesn't need examples at this stage) and Europe (Just look at the abuse some footballers get).

    I do think a MASSIVE problem is how people react. If someone said #AllLivesMatter to me then I'd tell them my point but not attack them. The video of the Trump supporter getting spit at and pushed as he walked through the protests was deplorable. I would disagree with his views but where is the humanity towards other people.


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  • #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bowie wrote: »
    To the well meaning (and otherwise) #alllivesmatter folk. First off it was a response designed to counter #blacklivesmatter not support it. Second, if you're Irish, imagine if during the famine or time of the Black and Tans the Irish had #irishlivesmatter what would the response #alllivesmatter look like? At best a bit dismissive. The Black community, (and their supporters) see their lives are been given less value and are speaking up about it, not saying all other lives don't matter. It needs to be addressed not countered or dismissed.

    When Colin Kaepernick kneeled to protest as far up as the President lost their minds and there was instant backlash. Black people were and are still suffering.

    I don't support the black community. I treat people as individuals based on their actions and not their skin colour. Black lives matter? Black people suffer injustice? No. Some do. At the hands of some others.

    Black community? Jesus.

    And really? Asking if we would be upset of there was a dismissive hashtag during the famine?

    You are genuinely comparing the famine to America? A country which had a black president who served two terms, which has a somewhat disproportionate amount of wealthy black actors, musicians and celebrities? which has positive discrimination with regards educational and employment opportunities?

    America has racism. Everywhere does. You can not eradicate racism. Even if you could, the way to do it would not be to treat a group as victims based on their skin colour. America's police force is not racist, but I'm sure it does have racists in it.

    The martyrdom of a man, who by all accounts wasn't a particularly nice man, as the figurehead of this revolution is a misstep in my opinion.

    The policemen in question were wrong. They have been charged. It will happen again.

    Do we think this will all ensure that no black person is unfairly treated again? Not going to happen. White people get unfairly treated. Asian people get unfairly treated. People treat others unfairly. Simple fact. It's not tolerated and people who do so get punished.

    Black lives matter only makes sense if you think that black people are an homogeneous group who all act the same, get treated the same, have the same experiences.

    It's bull****.


  • #62
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I would love to know was there more to how it all went down.

    He was placed inside the police car but then removed. Only times I've seen that is if they are lashing out or have kicked or spat for example.

    Obviously none of us were there but definitely kneeling on him as such for so long was beyond ridiculous.

    So many lives have been destroyed by this and I hope it's a lesson to the dirty cops or others to just comply and file a complaint later if you feel there was issues.... Yes all well and good and no use of dead but I would like to hope if one isn't kicking off or resisting that they would be ok.

    I'm concerned that now wasnt the best time and using a convicted criminal as the poster man for the cause taints it a lot.


    What about his victims and have their lives ever been the same.


    Seen a clip online from about 2 months back in the US where a young teenager girl is set on by numerous black males, they kicked her to the ground then bounced on her like a trampoline and took her Nike runners and walked off leaving her unconscious....

    Now that's sick and that definitely should have been brought up and many many other crimes and murders.


  • #63
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

    https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

    Horrible stuff.

    Where in Limerick was that?


  • #64
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    I’m simply stating a fact, you on the other hand are acting like all of these ****ing snowflakes I see on blm protest pages - jumping up and down in your own indignation shouting everyone down who doesn’t bow to BLM as a racist and bigot. This might get me banned from the thread but sincerely from me to you and all of your ilk - go **** yourself.

    Who is doing the shouting now!!

    It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
    No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
    You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    Who is doing the shouting now!!

    It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
    No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
    You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.

    I see his frustration. Simply not following or supporting a movement such as metoo or BLM is enough to be called a mysogynist or a racist. It's silly and it's inaccurate.


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bowie wrote: »
    Just to note: I see a lot of the same folk doing their civic duty 'concerned' we might be getting too sympathetic on the wrong side of this race issue are the same folk helped us out before we got too overly sympathetic for the #metoo movement. Your insecurity racism and bigotry, passed as reasoned debate, disgusts me TBH. Let groups who feel nobody is listening have five minutes ffs.

    Always have to laugh at "your bigotry disgusts me"

    Bigotry - intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.


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  • #67
    Blaze420
    Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭Blaze420


    joe40 wrote: »
    Who is doing the shouting now!!

    It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
    No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
    You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.

    You reap what you sow. I’m sick of it - go look at the FB BLM protest page for Limerick and 2 guys we’ll call Shane K and David C. Anyone who dared question the protest in terms of safety is being branded a “spastic” or “racist” by these 2 ****ing patethic snowflakes - they’ve even threatened to contact people’s employers because they aren’t sucking the dick of BLM and bowing to the line.

    These people and everyone like them can **** off and die, and I sincerely mean that. A bunch of virtue signalling ****heads given a soapbox because “black lives matter” and people don’t agree with it at the current time. They can hide behind Facebook all they like but the internet is never anonymous, and doing that with easily identifiable faces on a publicly viewable forum is a very bad idea - those internet mouths are going to meet real fists at some point, especially throwing around comments like that.


    If you follow the message of Blm and want your kudos from the others in the pool then go right ahead, but you can all go and **** if you think you are going to shout down people who don’t agree with the protests or message as racists or bigots. Nothing but a pack of internet hardmen with big mouths and **** all else.


  • #68
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I see his frustration. Simply not following or supporting a movement such as metoo or BLM is enough to be called a mysogynist or a racist. It's silly and it's inaccurate.

    And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
    The name-calling comes from all sides.

    There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.


  • #69
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    joe40 wrote: »
    And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
    The name-calling comes from all sides.

    There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.

    Did you read Kilboor's excellent post a few pages back? I presume you do not use any product that has exploited any person in any deprived, enslaved situation globally. I presume you have marched on behalf of every person in hell from Yeminis to Yazidis and if not I will presume this swell of protest is a fashion statement, a populist social media fueled imaginary uprising, the result of the deep emotionalism fused with shallow intellectualism that is the bane of modern times.


  • #70
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    Did you read Kilboor's excellent post a few pages back? I presume you do not use any product that has exploited any person in any deprived, enslaved situation globally. I presume you have marched on behalf of every person in hell from Yeminis to Yazidis and if not I will presume this swell of protest is a fashion statement, a populist social media fueled imaginary uprising, the result of the deep emotionalism fused with shallow intellectualism that is the bane of modern times.

    Okay I see, I can't have an opinion then so since I live and work and rear a family, because how could I possibly do all the the things you expect.

    Your post is just nonsense. Unless one lives an unattainable ideal they're hypocrites.

    I tried to be reasonable and find a middle ground and this this the kind of sh*the I get. Pseudointellectual babble.


  • #71
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    joe40 wrote: »
    Okay I see, I can't have an opinion then so since I live and work and rear a family, because how could I possibly do all the the things you expect.

    Your post is just nonsense. Unless one lives an unattainable ideal they're hypocrites.

    I tried to be reasonable and find a middle ground and this this the kind of sh*the I get. Pseudointellectual babble.

    The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.


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  • #72
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.

    Jim lives in a poor area with few shops and job opportunities. Jim burnt down some buildings and looted those few shops.
    In a few months time when all of this is forgotten the area Jim lives in will be poorer, have less shops and fewer job opportunities.
    Jim screwed himself over


  • #73
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Gruffalox wrote: »
    The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.

    This is not about one person. It never was. That one person was simply a tipping point because it was filmed.
    Whether you agree with the protest or not is up to you but it is simply factually incorrect to say it is about one person, and you know that.

    I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.

    I will admit the situation is complex without easy solutions, and does go beyond race, but it is much bigger than the death of one man.

    He is not simply a "cause celebre" although the manner of his death at the hands of people paid to protect and serve was appalling.


  • #74
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Jim lives in a poor area with few shops and job opportunities. Jim burnt down some buildings and looted those few shops.
    In a few months time when all of this is forgotten the area Jim lives in will be poorer, have less shops and fewer job opportunities.
    Jim screwed himself over

    Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.


  • #75
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    joe40 wrote: »
    Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.

    "Same thing "

    So much of a stretch the band snapped, flew back and hit him in the eye


  • #76
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    joe40 wrote: »
    Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.

    It society in America didn't change after 1861 it's not going to change now .

    No matter how Many people #forwhateveisthelastesheveryonemustfollow #orelse
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #77
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    "Same thing "

    So much of a stretch the band snapped, flew back and hit him in the eye

    No, I'm old enough to remember Derry burning. Things much better now.


  • #78
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    BLM has evolved in a hate group. Whites supporting BLM is as ridiculous of Black supporting the KKK.


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.
    .

    I see where you went wrong...

    You must have accidentally logged into a DISCUSSION forum on a specific thread DISCUSSING the very topic you don't want to get into a discussion about.

    Easy mistake


  • #80
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    joe40 wrote: »
    This is not about one person. It never was. That one person was simply a tipping point because it was filmed.
    Whether you agree with the protest or not is up to you but it is simply factually incorrect to say it is about one person, and you know that.

    I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.

    I will admit the situation is complex without easy solutions, and does go beyond race, but it is much bigger than the death of one man.

    He is not simply a "cause celebre" although the manner of his death at the hands of people paid to protect and serve was appalling.

    His manner of death was appalling. As are the manners of deaths of many. Horrific. I hope justice is served.
    The situation is complex as you say - the rioting and looting is not useful as a response. It harms the local communities. The marches here are basically a fashion statement. Sentimentalism.

    What do you say to the WSJ report that shows deaths like these are a function of activity rather than race? Function having a mathematical meaning in this case. The proportion of criminal activity brings people into more or less contact with the police. This is relevant.

    Criminal activity has been proven to be a product of poverty and family and social situations. What do you think of BLMs stated objective to disrupt the nuclear family rather than encourage much more parental engagement? A community does not raise kids, this is communitarian bullsh1t. Strong families raise children. Or people who still engage with their children wholly even if the parents live apart. Not some amorphous village that is ideologically formed.

    These are relevant matters to consider when one chooses to support a movement - to give thought to their stated objectives. One cannot simply take to the streets and start screeching without knowing exactly what one is actually supporting.

    I have seen really good reports prior to Floyd from local black activists in Chicago basically saying what the fcuk lads, how long are we gonna sh1t on our own doorsteps and keep trying to blame someone else.


  • #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
    The name-calling comes from all sides.

    There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.

    People can lose their livelihood if unfounded accusations of racist and rape apologist stick. You won't lose anything by being called a snowflake.


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  • #82
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I see where you went wrong...

    You must have accidentally logged into a DISCUSSION forum on a specific thread DISCUSSING the very topic you don't want to get into a discussion about.

    Easy mistake

    No there is another thread about Floyd, this one did not mention him.
    And I'm not getting into a discussion because it's Friday night and I have other things to do.

    And by the way why the sarcastic comment? I simply expressed an opinion and acknowledged others will have different opinions.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Because as I said, it is a discussion thread which is intrinsically linked to George Floyd and black lives matter and you said you didn't want to discuss either exceptionally important aspects of the discussion.


  • #84
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    (some) Irish people: Everyone is forgetting about how Irish people were treated a hundred years ago

    Also (some) Irish people: They need to get over that slavery stuff.

    Jim Crow officially ended in 1968 but was still unofficially practiced for years after, especially in the south.
    https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



  • #85
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I remember when my grandmother was ostricised in her new locality in Kerry after getting married because she didn't go to mass and was a pagan that was only back when she came out as Pagan in 60's until the 80's she lived that way.

    Here in Ireland we can turn on each other if we're not supporting the status quo.

    Ironically she was right about the church being greedy knuts and she always said they're hiding a lot of dark secrets, she also used to call Jimmy Saville a dirty article, look at the state of him she'd say, he looks like dirty nonse...

    She was right but my mum couldn't see it, but yet someone born in 1912 could see the wood from the tree's.
    Her best friend was Dinjoe a flamboyant milk farmer, sounded like a Kerry version of Michael Tierney ie Micky the lady from Ennis a pure gent..

    Go on YouTube and look up Michael Tierney Ennis, he livened up the town...he was a scream..

    All this homophobia only came mainstream in the last 30 year's, flamboyant men were local heroes once upon a time thankfully homophobia died off quite quickly...the media who highlighted it to sell paper's are knuts..

    Because back then people used to say hes a bit of a fancy fella, but a nice guy none the less...not much was said about it unless the local parish priest who was full of guilt and shame for being a predator or a closet gay chasing what went against the grain of the teachings of the church and his inward shame allowed him to shout hellfire and torture to homosexuals.. while being one himself...

    It all stems from Catholic guilt and shame.
    Sex was dirty and only to procreate and not pleasure.

    Now anyone who's not putting up post's about black boxes and screaming shame on you from their pillar's on social media are following the same bu//5h1t they've been doing for hundreds of years hypocrites the lot of them..

    It's a small minority but I avoid those people who push BLM guilt in people's faces like the plague.

    So the latest cross to bare is a black box or BLM symbols on themselves and worship a new God, so it's gone from The environment, to Covid 19 to BLM in a matter of months..

    If a falce Alien attack happens and they capture the Alien they'll all be going around with a t-shirt saying shame on you for killing cthulhu....


  • #86
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I thought the #alllivesmatter came about because of the deaths as a result of the looting/protesting/riots. Which would make the OP look silly.


  • #87
    Warbeastrior
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭Warbeastrior


    AllForIt wrote:
    I thought the #alllivesmatter came about because of the deaths as a result of the looting/protesting/riots. Which would make the OP look silly.

    I honestly got the impression it was from people who wanted to undermine the #BlackLivesMatter movement.


  • #88
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    iamstop wrote: »
    3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

    Problem with allot of this educating going on at the moment is its normally just an ego trip for those who are writing it so they don't feel like terrible human beings. Rather than end with a message of solidarity we go for division.

    While its easy for us in Ireland to see how hashtags like this are being used to manipulate public opinion its not so clear in America where they seem to go from hardcore racist to bowing down for being white.


  • #89
    GSBellew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭GSBellew


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    "All lives matter" and "White Lives matter" are not racist per se. It is self evident that both are true statements.

    However, it just so happens that a lot of racists like throwing them out as a cudgel against the BLM statement.

    The BLM advocates are looking for equality and parity with how white people are treated by police. They're not asking for anything to be removed from white people but the "All Live Matter"/"White Lives Matter" brigade behave like they are going to lose some rights themselves.

    Disagree completely, you want equality it's all lives matter, pick one over the other and all you are doing is pushing an agenda.


  • #90
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Don't forget we have a woman here in Ireland that supposedly wrote a book called race, she was educated for free in ucd and now lectures there... Also illegal entry to Ireland if I recall.

    Can't think of her name.

    She is a very dangerous woman and has a huge issue with white people.

    Am I suppose to be sorry for being white?
    Am I suppose to bow before a black person now?
    Do I have to kneel down now too?

    Where is all this going and why should I be made feel bad for something I had no hand in on causing....


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  • #91
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    GSBellew wrote: »
    Disagree completely, you want equality it's all lives matter, pick one over the other and all you are doing is pushing an agenda.

    You cant have equality if black lives dont matter

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #92
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Warbeastrior wrote: »
    I honestly got the impression it was from people who wanted to undermine the #BlackLivesMatter movement.

    That's exactly what it was. The first one was blue lives matter. (Which of course they do as well)

    Of course all lives matter that's a given but this was set up to protest the amount of black lives lost by police killing.

    When John Hume and others were protesting for civil rights in the North in the late 60s for Catholics, he wasn't saying civil rights weren't important for everyone.
    He wasn't suggesting taking civil rights away from protestant community. He had a his cause for which he was campaigning for.
    All civil rights matter, he was campaigning for his particular cause.

    If this protest leads to less police deaths that will benefit everyone.


  • #93
    SwordofLight
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭SwordofLight


    iamstop wrote: »
    If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
    1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
    2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
    2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
    3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
    3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

    Sorry, but I think you are caught up in US culture. It would be good to differentiate between the US and elsewhere, because anyone reading your post, or coming across the BLM movement for the first time, quickly observes its generally twisted sentiment when applied elsewhere.


  • #94
    tjhook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭tjhook


    I'm sure the OP isn't a smug ar*e in real life, but their post does come across a bit like that. If you want to change the minds of people who disagree with you, you don't browbeat and insult them in the first post of a thread. Is there a purpose to the post, beyond either stirring for an argument or virtue-signalling to like-minded people?

    As for BLM, I think it was started with the best of intentions, and has a valid point. It's shorthand. Not for "Only Black lives matter", but for "Black lives matter too". The US has all sorts of historical baggage, and this movement got caught up in all that. For many people, BLM is no longer just about lives mattering, for either those supporting it or those against it. And the heightened emotions in the US are heightening emotions about this issue worldwide.

    The US has a number of problems. Their police force appears to be out of control. I've seen videos of them attacking people of all colours, young and old. Outside of current events, I have read/heard that a black person is more likely than a white person to be on the receiving end. I assume most of the officers are fine, but there does appear to be a sizeable number of them showing psychotic behaviour. And they have a president who is egging them on rather than trying to calm the situation.

    In Ireland we don't have the same historical baggage (we do have other baggage that we sometimes struggle to deal with). Black lives are not specifically threatened by the Irish state. So those that shout about BLM in an Irish context are just stirring for trouble. Just to say, I'm not talking about people on Boards, I'm talking about wider social media, where things are a bit more "shoutey" and there can be a lower standard of discussion :)


  • #95
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,721 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    As one person said, you don't show up to an event in aid of breast cancer and complain about the event because #AllCancersMatter


  • #96
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    One big issue is many officers are ex military.

    They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

    Has to be part of the issues.


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  • #97
    tjhook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭tjhook


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    One big issue is many officers are ex military.

    They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

    Has to be part of the issues.


    I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.


  • #98
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,525 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    tjhook wrote: »
    I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.

    The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.


  • #99
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.

    Police in Europe patrol airports, public areas etc highly armed. That's not the usual but it's a carry over from the boom boom ISIS boys blowing up people and shooting or stabbing members of the public.
    Those guys are ok


  • #100
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Don't forget we have a woman here in Ireland that supposedly wrote a book called race, she was educated for free in ucd and now lectures there... Also illegal entry to Ireland if I recall.

    Can't think of her name.

    She is a very dangerous woman and has a huge issue with white people.

    Am I suppose to be sorry for being white?
    Am I suppose to bow before a black person now?
    Do I have to kneel down now too?

    Where is all this going and why should I be made feel bad for something I had no hand in on causing....

    That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe


  • #101
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

    Cheers, honestly couldn't think....


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