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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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[Deleted User]

joe40 wrote: »

I don't support protests in Ireland, I hadn't realised there were 1000s of people out today.

That's the thing Joe, and I think me and you have been at odds over a few threads regarding this and matters like this.

I can tell from your response, you are rational and you aren't out to hammer people as being racist, but I think the main frustration for me and people like me is that we can't seem to say anything negative regarding immigration or BLM without being labelled as some sort of right wing bigot.

Again, not you personally Joe and I apologise if on other threads I may have lumped you in with those people.

The sheer lunacy and herd mentality of people (mostly white) who are using all that's going on at the moment to prove they are oh so virtuousis is maddening.

iamwhoiam

Warbeastrior wrote: »

That's true but I genuinely think a lot of people who break guidelines do so ignorantly. They almost seem oblivious to the fact that it can spread the virus quicker. A 'Sure it'll be grand' mindset.
It doesn't make non social distancing protests right but I think a lot don't see a big problem with what they're doing.

Do you honestly think that those who are protesting today are all stupid ? They are listening to the message being drilled into us daily to keep our distance . Unless they are very very stupid they must have got the message by now

Warbeastrior

MOH wrote:

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

That's true but I genuinely think a lot of people who break guidelines do so ignorantly. They almost seem oblivious to the fact that it can spread the virus quicker. A 'Sure it'll be grand' mindset.
It doesn't make non social distancing protests right but I think a lot don't see a big problem with what they're doing.

joe40

MOH wrote: »

There are thousands of people participating in BLM protests in Ireland right now who are clearly demonstrating that all lives don't matter to them.

They don't care about the lives of the elderly or others at high risk from the coronavirus they're helping spread. They don't care about the lives of the frontline care workers who are going to have to treat the people they infect.
They don't care about the people who died alone in hospital during lockdown unable to see their family, or the lives of those who've had to bury loved ones without a proper funeral.

There are plenty of ways to protest, and to show support for others. And even gain media coverage of it - just look at at all the coverage we've had of support for frontline medical staff. Pick a time where everyone does something form the safety of their own garden/window/balcony, and there'd have been a far higher participation. I certainly would have.

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

I don't support protests in Ireland, I hadn't realised there were 1000s of people out today.

MOH

joe40 wrote: »

I can support BLM, purely because all lives matter.

There are thousands of people participating in BLM protests in Ireland right now who are clearly demonstrating that all lives don't matter to them.

They don't care about the lives of the elderly or others at high risk from the coronavirus they're helping spread. They don't care about the lives of the frontline care workers who are going to have to treat the people they infect.
They don't care about the people who died alone in hospital during lockdown unable to see their family, or the lives of those who've had to bury loved ones without a proper funeral.

There are plenty of ways to protest, and to show support for others. And even gain media coverage of it - just look at at all the coverage we've had of support for frontline medical staff. Pick a time where everyone does something form the safety of their own garden/window/balcony, and there'd have been a far higher participation. I certainly would have.

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

Gatling

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

It's all she really says on twitter or any interview she gives Ireland is racist , Irish people are racist ,the gardai are racist ,the bar man in Galway was racist ,

Makes you wonder why she hasn't fled this racist hell hole

punisher5112

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

Cheers, honestly couldn't think....

c.p.w.g.w

punisher5112 wrote: »

Don't forget we have a woman here in Ireland that supposedly wrote a book called race, she was educated for free in ucd and now lectures there... Also illegal entry to Ireland if I recall.

Can't think of her name.

She is a very dangerous woman and has a huge issue with white people.

Am I suppose to be sorry for being white?
Am I suppose to bow before a black person now?
Do I have to kneel down now too?

Where is all this going and why should I be made feel bad for something I had no hand in on causing....

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

ExMachina1000

whisky_galore wrote: »

The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.

Police in Europe patrol airports, public areas etc highly armed. That's not the usual but it's a carry over from the boom boom ISIS boys blowing up people and shooting or stabbing members of the public.
Those guys are ok

whisky_galore

tjhook wrote: »

I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.

The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.

tjhook

punisher5112 wrote: »

One big issue is many officers are ex military.

They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

Has to be part of the issues.

I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.

punisher5112

One big issue is many officers are ex military.

They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

Has to be part of the issues.

StupidLikeAFox

As one person said, you don't show up to an event in aid of breast cancer and complain about the event because #AllCancersMatter

tjhook

I'm sure the OP isn't a smug ar*e in real life, but their post does come across a bit like that. If you want to change the minds of people who disagree with you, you don't browbeat and insult them in the first post of a thread. Is there a purpose to the post, beyond either stirring for an argument or virtue-signalling to like-minded people?

As for BLM, I think it was started with the best of intentions, and has a valid point. It's shorthand. Not for "Only Black lives matter", but for "Black lives matter too". The US has all sorts of historical baggage, and this movement got caught up in all that. For many people, BLM is no longer just about lives mattering, for either those supporting it or those against it. And the heightened emotions in the US are heightening emotions about this issue worldwide.

The US has a number of problems. Their police force appears to be out of control. I've seen videos of them attacking people of all colours, young and old. Outside of current events, I have read/heard that a black person is more likely than a white person to be on the receiving end. I assume most of the officers are fine, but there does appear to be a sizeable number of them showing psychotic behaviour. And they have a president who is egging them on rather than trying to calm the situation.

In Ireland we don't have the same historical baggage (we do have other baggage that we sometimes struggle to deal with). Black lives are not specifically threatened by the Irish state. So those that shout about BLM in an Irish context are just stirring for trouble. Just to say, I'm not talking about people on Boards, I'm talking about wider social media, where things are a bit more "shoutey" and there can be a lower standard of discussion

SwordofLight

iamstop wrote: »

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

Sorry, but I think you are caught up in US culture. It would be good to differentiate between the US and elsewhere, because anyone reading your post, or coming across the BLM movement for the first time, quickly observes its generally twisted sentiment when applied elsewhere.

joe40

Warbeastrior wrote: »

I honestly got the impression it was from people who wanted to undermine the #BlackLivesMatter movement.

That's exactly what it was. The first one was blue lives matter. (Which of course they do as well)

Of course all lives matter that's a given but this was set up to protest the amount of black lives lost by police killing.

When John Hume and others were protesting for civil rights in the North in the late 60s for Catholics, he wasn't saying civil rights weren't important for everyone.
He wasn't suggesting taking civil rights away from protestant community. He had a his cause for which he was campaigning for.
All civil rights matter, he was campaigning for his particular cause.

If this protest leads to less police deaths that will benefit everyone.

Annasopra

GSBellew wrote: »

Disagree completely, you want equality it's all lives matter, pick one over the other and all you are doing is pushing an agenda.

You cant have equality if black lives dont matter

punisher5112

Don't forget we have a woman here in Ireland that supposedly wrote a book called race, she was educated for free in ucd and now lectures there... Also illegal entry to Ireland if I recall.

Can't think of her name.

She is a very dangerous woman and has a huge issue with white people.

Am I suppose to be sorry for being white?
Am I suppose to bow before a black person now?
Do I have to kneel down now too?

Where is all this going and why should I be made feel bad for something I had no hand in on causing....

GSBellew

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

"All lives matter" and "White Lives matter" are not racist per se. It is self evident that both are true statements.

However, it just so happens that a lot of racists like throwing them out as a cudgel against the BLM statement.

The BLM advocates are looking for equality and parity with how white people are treated by police. They're not asking for anything to be removed from white people but the "All Live Matter"/"White Lives Matter" brigade behave like they are going to lose some rights themselves.

Disagree completely, you want equality it's all lives matter, pick one over the other and all you are doing is pushing an agenda.

Calhoun

iamstop wrote: »

3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

Problem with allot of this educating going on at the moment is its normally just an ego trip for those who are writing it so they don't feel like terrible human beings. Rather than end with a message of solidarity we go for division.

While its easy for us in Ireland to see how hashtags like this are being used to manipulate public opinion its not so clear in America where they seem to go from hardcore racist to bowing down for being white.

Warbeastrior

AllForIt wrote:

I thought the #alllivesmatter came about because of the deaths as a result of the looting/protesting/riots. Which would make the OP look silly.

I honestly got the impression it was from people who wanted to undermine the #BlackLivesMatter movement.

AllForIt

I thought the #alllivesmatter came about because of the deaths as a result of the looting/protesting/riots. Which would make the OP look silly.

nthclare

I remember when my grandmother was ostricised in her new locality in Kerry after getting married because she didn't go to mass and was a pagan that was only back when she came out as Pagan in 60's until the 80's she lived that way.

Here in Ireland we can turn on each other if we're not supporting the status quo.

Ironically she was right about the church being greedy knuts and she always said they're hiding a lot of dark secrets, she also used to call Jimmy Saville a dirty article, look at the state of him she'd say, he looks like dirty nonse...

She was right but my mum couldn't see it, but yet someone born in 1912 could see the wood from the tree's.
Her best friend was Dinjoe a flamboyant milk farmer, sounded like a Kerry version of Michael Tierney ie Micky the lady from Ennis a pure gent..

Go on YouTube and look up Michael Tierney Ennis, he livened up the town...he was a scream..

All this homophobia only came mainstream in the last 30 year's, flamboyant men were local heroes once upon a time thankfully homophobia died off quite quickly...the media who highlighted it to sell paper's are knuts..

Because back then people used to say hes a bit of a fancy fella, but a nice guy none the less...not much was said about it unless the local parish priest who was full of guilt and shame for being a predator or a closet gay chasing what went against the grain of the teachings of the church and his inward shame allowed him to shout hellfire and torture to homosexuals.. while being one himself...

It all stems from Catholic guilt and shame.
Sex was dirty and only to procreate and not pleasure.

Now anyone who's not putting up post's about black boxes and screaming shame on you from their pillar's on social media are following the same bu//5h1t they've been doing for hundreds of years hypocrites the lot of them..

It's a small minority but I avoid those people who push BLM guilt in people's faces like the plague.

So the latest cross to bare is a black box or BLM symbols on themselves and worship a new God, so it's gone from The environment, to Covid 19 to BLM in a matter of months..

If a falce Alien attack happens and they capture the Alien they'll all be going around with a t-shirt saying shame on you for killing cthulhu....

iamstop

(some) Irish people: Everyone is forgetting about how Irish people were treated a hundred years ago

Also (some) Irish people: They need to get over that slavery stuff.

Jim Crow officially ended in 1968 but was still unofficially practiced for years after, especially in the south.
https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws

[Deleted User]

Because as I said, it is a discussion thread which is intrinsically linked to George Floyd and black lives matter and you said you didn't want to discuss either exceptionally important aspects of the discussion.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see where you went wrong...

You must have accidentally logged into a DISCUSSION forum on a specific thread DISCUSSING the very topic you don't want to get into a discussion about.

Easy mistake

No there is another thread about Floyd, this one did not mention him.
And I'm not getting into a discussion because it's Friday night and I have other things to do.

And by the way why the sarcastic comment? I simply expressed an opinion and acknowledged others will have different opinions.

[Deleted User]

joe40 wrote: »

And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
The name-calling comes from all sides.

There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.

People can lose their livelihood if unfounded accusations of racist and rape apologist stick. You won't lose anything by being called a snowflake.

Gruffalux

joe40 wrote: »

This is not about one person. It never was. That one person was simply a tipping point because it was filmed.
Whether you agree with the protest or not is up to you but it is simply factually incorrect to say it is about one person, and you know that.

I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.

I will admit the situation is complex without easy solutions, and does go beyond race, but it is much bigger than the death of one man.

He is not simply a "cause celebre" although the manner of his death at the hands of people paid to protect and serve was appalling.

His manner of death was appalling. As are the manners of deaths of many. Horrific. I hope justice is served.
The situation is complex as you say - the rioting and looting is not useful as a response. It harms the local communities. The marches here are basically a fashion statement. Sentimentalism.

What do you say to the WSJ report that shows deaths like these are a function of activity rather than race? Function having a mathematical meaning in this case. The proportion of criminal activity brings people into more or less contact with the police. This is relevant.

Criminal activity has been proven to be a product of poverty and family and social situations. What do you think of BLMs stated objective to disrupt the nuclear family rather than encourage much more parental engagement? A community does not raise kids, this is communitarian bullsh1t. Strong families raise children. Or people who still engage with their children wholly even if the parents live apart. Not some amorphous village that is ideologically formed.

These are relevant matters to consider when one chooses to support a movement - to give thought to their stated objectives. One cannot simply take to the streets and start screeching without knowing exactly what one is actually supporting.

I have seen really good reports prior to Floyd from local black activists in Chicago basically saying what the fcuk lads, how long are we gonna sh1t on our own doorsteps and keep trying to blame someone else.

[Deleted User]

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.
.

I see where you went wrong...

You must have accidentally logged into a DISCUSSION forum on a specific thread DISCUSSING the very topic you don't want to get into a discussion about.

Easy mistake

Mr. Karate

BLM has evolved in a hate group. Whites supporting BLM is as ridiculous of Black supporting the KKK.