Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

joe40

Warbeastrior wrote: »

I honestly got the impression it was from people who wanted to undermine the #BlackLivesMatter movement.

That's exactly what it was. The first one was blue lives matter. (Which of course they do as well)

Of course all lives matter that's a given but this was set up to protest the amount of black lives lost by police killing.

When John Hume and others were protesting for civil rights in the North in the late 60s for Catholics, he wasn't saying civil rights weren't important for everyone.
He wasn't suggesting taking civil rights away from protestant community. He had a his cause for which he was campaigning for.
All civil rights matter, he was campaigning for his particular cause.

If this protest leads to less police deaths that will benefit everyone.

SwordofLight

iamstop wrote: »

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

Sorry, but I think you are caught up in US culture. It would be good to differentiate between the US and elsewhere, because anyone reading your post, or coming across the BLM movement for the first time, quickly observes its generally twisted sentiment when applied elsewhere.

tjhook

I'm sure the OP isn't a smug ar*e in real life, but their post does come across a bit like that. If you want to change the minds of people who disagree with you, you don't browbeat and insult them in the first post of a thread. Is there a purpose to the post, beyond either stirring for an argument or virtue-signalling to like-minded people?

As for BLM, I think it was started with the best of intentions, and has a valid point. It's shorthand. Not for "Only Black lives matter", but for "Black lives matter too". The US has all sorts of historical baggage, and this movement got caught up in all that. For many people, BLM is no longer just about lives mattering, for either those supporting it or those against it. And the heightened emotions in the US are heightening emotions about this issue worldwide.

The US has a number of problems. Their police force appears to be out of control. I've seen videos of them attacking people of all colours, young and old. Outside of current events, I have read/heard that a black person is more likely than a white person to be on the receiving end. I assume most of the officers are fine, but there does appear to be a sizeable number of them showing psychotic behaviour. And they have a president who is egging them on rather than trying to calm the situation.

In Ireland we don't have the same historical baggage (we do have other baggage that we sometimes struggle to deal with). Black lives are not specifically threatened by the Irish state. So those that shout about BLM in an Irish context are just stirring for trouble. Just to say, I'm not talking about people on Boards, I'm talking about wider social media, where things are a bit more "shoutey" and there can be a lower standard of discussion

StupidLikeAFox

As one person said, you don't show up to an event in aid of breast cancer and complain about the event because #AllCancersMatter

punisher5112

One big issue is many officers are ex military.

They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

Has to be part of the issues.

tjhook

punisher5112 wrote: »

One big issue is many officers are ex military.

They've been to places and done things nobody could imagine.

Has to be part of the issues.

I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.

whisky_galore

tjhook wrote: »

I agree completely. In this country, we don't put the army on the streets to carry out policing. Police and Army have very different purposes, and one isn't suitable for the other. Even the ancient Romans had that one worked out. The US appears to be blurring the lines between the two.

The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.

ExMachina1000

whisky_galore wrote: »

The look of them, hard to tell if it's a cop or a soldier at times.

Police in Europe patrol airports, public areas etc highly armed. That's not the usual but it's a carry over from the boom boom ISIS boys blowing up people and shooting or stabbing members of the public.
Those guys are ok

c.p.w.g.w

punisher5112 wrote: »

Don't forget we have a woman here in Ireland that supposedly wrote a book called race, she was educated for free in ucd and now lectures there... Also illegal entry to Ireland if I recall.

Can't think of her name.

She is a very dangerous woman and has a huge issue with white people.

Am I suppose to be sorry for being white?
Am I suppose to bow before a black person now?
Do I have to kneel down now too?

Where is all this going and why should I be made feel bad for something I had no hand in on causing....

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

punisher5112

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

Cheers, honestly couldn't think....

Gatling

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That Ebun Joseph...seen her on tonight show last year, she nearly brought racism up everything she spoke...the topic was direct provision centre's I believe

It's all she really says on twitter or any interview she gives Ireland is racist , Irish people are racist ,the gardai are racist ,the bar man in Galway was racist ,

Makes you wonder why she hasn't fled this racist hell hole

MOH

joe40 wrote: »

I can support BLM, purely because all lives matter.

There are thousands of people participating in BLM protests in Ireland right now who are clearly demonstrating that all lives don't matter to them.

They don't care about the lives of the elderly or others at high risk from the coronavirus they're helping spread. They don't care about the lives of the frontline care workers who are going to have to treat the people they infect.
They don't care about the people who died alone in hospital during lockdown unable to see their family, or the lives of those who've had to bury loved ones without a proper funeral.

There are plenty of ways to protest, and to show support for others. And even gain media coverage of it - just look at at all the coverage we've had of support for frontline medical staff. Pick a time where everyone does something form the safety of their own garden/window/balcony, and there'd have been a far higher participation. I certainly would have.

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

joe40

MOH wrote: »

There are thousands of people participating in BLM protests in Ireland right now who are clearly demonstrating that all lives don't matter to them.

They don't care about the lives of the elderly or others at high risk from the coronavirus they're helping spread. They don't care about the lives of the frontline care workers who are going to have to treat the people they infect.
They don't care about the people who died alone in hospital during lockdown unable to see their family, or the lives of those who've had to bury loved ones without a proper funeral.

There are plenty of ways to protest, and to show support for others. And even gain media coverage of it - just look at at all the coverage we've had of support for frontline medical staff. Pick a time where everyone does something form the safety of their own garden/window/balcony, and there'd have been a far higher participation. I certainly would have.

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

I don't support protests in Ireland, I hadn't realised there were 1000s of people out today.

Warbeastrior

MOH wrote:

But by choosing to organise mass protests in the middle of a pandemic, right now BLM in Ireland definitely doesn't mean all lives matter.

That's true but I genuinely think a lot of people who break guidelines do so ignorantly. They almost seem oblivious to the fact that it can spread the virus quicker. A 'Sure it'll be grand' mindset.
It doesn't make non social distancing protests right but I think a lot don't see a big problem with what they're doing.

iamwhoiam

Warbeastrior wrote: »

That's true but I genuinely think a lot of people who break guidelines do so ignorantly. They almost seem oblivious to the fact that it can spread the virus quicker. A 'Sure it'll be grand' mindset.
It doesn't make non social distancing protests right but I think a lot don't see a big problem with what they're doing.

Do you honestly think that those who are protesting today are all stupid ? They are listening to the message being drilled into us daily to keep our distance . Unless they are very very stupid they must have got the message by now

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

I don't support protests in Ireland, I hadn't realised there were 1000s of people out today.

That's the thing Joe, and I think me and you have been at odds over a few threads regarding this and matters like this.

I can tell from your response, you are rational and you aren't out to hammer people as being racist, but I think the main frustration for me and people like me is that we can't seem to say anything negative regarding immigration or BLM without being labelled as some sort of right wing bigot.

Again, not you personally Joe and I apologise if on other threads I may have lumped you in with those people.

The sheer lunacy and herd mentality of people (mostly white) who are using all that's going on at the moment to prove they are oh so virtuousis is maddening.

iamwhoiam

I would be absolutely furious today if I had to attend a funeral with 10 people or think I cancelled a 100 guest wedding . These people can gather in a huge mass and no one condemning it or even bothering to disperse it

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Do you honestly think that those who are protesting today are all stupid ? They are listening to the message being drilled into us daily to keep our distance . Unless they are very very stupid they must have got the message by now

I think that any gob****e out protesting today is either stupid or very ****ing reckless who care more about being seen to be good rather than being good.

GSBellew

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You cant have equality if black lives dont matter

Can you please point out where I said they didn't.

People are people, regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, colour of skin, hair, eyes, and so on.

We are all people, we all have lives, all of these lives matter equally.

I don't feel the need to make a distiction because I see no difference in value of one over the other.

MOH

Reports earlier were "hundreds" or possibly a thousand. Sounds like it's far worse than that. This is insanity.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/around-5000-people-take-part-in-black-lives-matter-protest-in-dublin-39265087.html

ExMachina1000

Imagine the hassle of being a garda now.

Warbeastrior

iamwhoiam wrote:

Do you honestly think that those who are protesting today are all stupid ? They are listening to the message being drilled into us daily to keep our distance . Unless they are very very stupid they must have got the message by now

I don't think it's stupidity exactly. A lot of people know the guidelines and know they shouldn't be doing it according to said guidelines but I'm sure there's a lot that don't feel there is any need for social distancing as 'the cases are going down' etc. Seeing as though so few have got the virus as a whole (Which is great and fair play to everyone who has helped this be the case)
I'd say a lot of people feel there's nothing to worry about etc.

joe40

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Imagine the hassle of being a garda now.

From the news article
"One Garda remarked, it is very peaceful, very well organised"

Guards aren't getting hassle.

I do however think the protest should not have happened with Coronavirus restrictions still in place. I would have no problem with the protest but not at this time.

ExMachina1000

joe40 wrote: »

From the news article
"One Garda remarked, it is very peaceful, very well organised"

Guards aren't getting hassle.

I do however think the protest should not have happened with Coronavirus restrictions still in place. I would have no problem with the protest but not at this time.

I'm not talking about the "protest". I'm talking about going forward. Anytime they have to deal with any problem with someone who is a non national (don't even have to be black) there will be cameras on them and clowns ready to scream racist.

Its going to be a problem. You might say well if the guards don't do anything wrong they don't have to worry. To that I say that's not how it works in reality

Gatling

joe40 wrote: »

From the news article
"One Garda remarked, it is very peaceful, very well organised"

Guards aren't getting hassle.

More likely they have been told no to get involved for fear of mass civil disobedience and riots ,

Calhoun

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I'm not talking about the "protest". I'm talking about going forward. Anytime they have to deal with any problem with someone who is a non national (don't even have to be black) there will be cameras on them and clowns ready to scream racist.

Its going to be a problem. You might say well if the guards don't do anything wrong they don't have to worry. To that I say that's not how it works in reality

Well if we want to actually solve racism then we will have to call them on it if the shoe fits, however we need to hold ourselves to account when it doesn't.

I am not a fan of open borders, i feel a country should have sovereign borders for the protection of its own citizens but i really despise the direct provision system. Its whole design is to be a cashcow for hotels that should have failed.

So i don't actually blame the people in the centres who are protesting against them.

whisky_galore

Gatling wrote: »

More likely they have been told no to get involved for fear of mass civil disobedience and riots ,

It's easy to tell a handful of Debenhams workers to go home, a lot harder when it's a couple hundred, some of whom who'd love nothing more than a dig from a guard caught on camera phone.

Gatling

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's easy to tell a handful of Debenhams workers to go home, a lot harder when it's a couple hundred, some of whom who'd love nothing more than a dig from a guard caught on camera phone.

Exactly while screaming the feds the feds

c montgomery

Absolute muppets protesting in Dublin today !

Irish lives matter, their protest put our lives in jeopardy.

Flip off over to the ghettos in America if you care so much

jackboy

iamstop wrote: »

2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.

You got twisted in your own logic there.