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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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joe40

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

"Same thing "

So much of a stretch the band snapped, flew back and hit him in the eye

No, I'm old enough to remember Derry burning. Things much better now.

Gatling

joe40 wrote: »

Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.

It society in America didn't change after 1861 it's not going to change now .

No matter how Many people #forwhateveisthelastesheveryonemustfollow #orelse

ExMachina1000

joe40 wrote: »

Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.

"Same thing "

So much of a stretch the band snapped, flew back and hit him in the eye

joe40

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Jim lives in a poor area with few shops and job opportunities. Jim burnt down some buildings and looted those few shops.
In a few months time when all of this is forgotten the area Jim lives in will be poorer, have less shops and fewer job opportunities.
Jim screwed himself over

Same thing happened in Dublin 1916 and we made quite a fuss about it a few years ago.

joe40

Gruffalox wrote: »

The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.

This is not about one person. It never was. That one person was simply a tipping point because it was filmed.
Whether you agree with the protest or not is up to you but it is simply factually incorrect to say it is about one person, and you know that.

I'm not getting into a discussion with you about Floyd, or the BLM movement, you have your opinion and I'm not going to change that, and likewise you won't change mine.

I will admit the situation is complex without easy solutions, and does go beyond race, but it is much bigger than the death of one man.

He is not simply a "cause celebre" although the manner of his death at the hands of people paid to protect and serve was appalling.

ExMachina1000

Gruffalox wrote: »

The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.

Jim lives in a poor area with few shops and job opportunities. Jim burnt down some buildings and looted those few shops.
In a few months time when all of this is forgotten the area Jim lives in will be poorer, have less shops and fewer job opportunities.
Jim screwed himself over

Gruffalux

joe40 wrote: »

Okay I see, I can't have an opinion then so since I live and work and rear a family, because how could I possibly do all the the things you expect.

Your post is just nonsense. Unless one lives an unattainable ideal they're hypocrites.

I tried to be reasonable and find a middle ground and this this the kind of sh*the I get. Pseudointellectual babble.

The point is simple. One man's fate has been elevated in the media - cynically, in my opinion- to create dreadful chaos and race baiting, frankly. And instead of reading around the issues, for example Outlaw Pete quoted a WSJ article that examines research on the matter, people have flocked in a highly emotional manner to a supposed cause celebre. Here in Ireland thousands of miles away some people have taken to the streets during pandemic restrictions when so many other injustices more locally could have motivated them at other times. It feels like a fashionable cause - it is a pity the randomly chosen but now lionised victim was a person who violently victimised others. It all seems frenzied and unexamined. And closer to the matter mobs have destroyed and looted black owned businesses, and other lives have been lost in the chaos. I don't see anything worth stirring up all this sh1t for.

joe40

Gruffalox wrote: »

Did you read Kilboor's excellent post a few pages back? I presume you do not use any product that has exploited any person in any deprived, enslaved situation globally. I presume you have marched on behalf of every person in hell from Yeminis to Yazidis and if not I will presume this swell of protest is a fashion statement, a populist social media fueled imaginary uprising, the result of the deep emotionalism fused with shallow intellectualism that is the bane of modern times.

Okay I see, I can't have an opinion then so since I live and work and rear a family, because how could I possibly do all the the things you expect.

Your post is just nonsense. Unless one lives an unattainable ideal they're hypocrites.

I tried to be reasonable and find a middle ground and this this the kind of sh*the I get. Pseudointellectual babble.

Gruffalux

joe40 wrote: »

And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
The name-calling comes from all sides.

There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.

Did you read Kilboor's excellent post a few pages back? I presume you do not use any product that has exploited any person in any deprived, enslaved situation globally. I presume you have marched on behalf of every person in hell from Yeminis to Yazidis and if not I will presume this swell of protest is a fashion statement, a populist social media fueled imaginary uprising, the result of the deep emotionalism fused with shallow intellectualism that is the bane of modern times.

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see his frustration. Simply not following or supporting a movement such as metoo or BLM is enough to be called a mysogynist or a racist. It's silly and it's inaccurate.

And if I give even a little support to those things I'm a lefty, snowflake, sjw type, whatever.
The name-calling comes from all sides.

There are without doubt dicks jumping on the bandwagon, looking for attention, but they don't represent everyone.

Blaze420

joe40 wrote: »

Who is doing the shouting now!!

It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.

You reap what you sow. I’m sick of it - go look at the FB BLM protest page for Limerick and 2 guys we’ll call Shane K and David C. Anyone who dared question the protest in terms of safety is being branded a “spastic” or “racist” by these 2 ****ing patethic snowflakes - they’ve even threatened to contact people’s employers because they aren’t sucking the dick of BLM and bowing to the line.

These people and everyone like them can **** off and die, and I sincerely mean that. A bunch of virtue signalling ****heads given a soapbox because “black lives matter” and people don’t agree with it at the current time. They can hide behind Facebook all they like but the internet is never anonymous, and doing that with easily identifiable faces on a publicly viewable forum is a very bad idea - those internet mouths are going to meet real fists at some point, especially throwing around comments like that.

If you follow the message of Blm and want your kudos from the others in the pool then go right ahead, but you can all go and **** if you think you are going to shout down people who don’t agree with the protests or message as racists or bigots. Nothing but a pack of internet hardmen with big mouths and **** all else.

[Deleted User]

Bowie wrote: »

Just to note: I see a lot of the same folk doing their civic duty 'concerned' we might be getting too sympathetic on the wrong side of this race issue are the same folk helped us out before we got too overly sympathetic for the #metoo movement. Your insecurity racism and bigotry, passed as reasoned debate, disgusts me TBH. Let groups who feel nobody is listening have five minutes ffs.

Always have to laugh at "your bigotry disgusts me"

Bigotry - intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

[Deleted User]

joe40 wrote: »

Who is doing the shouting now!!

It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.

I see his frustration. Simply not following or supporting a movement such as metoo or BLM is enough to be called a mysogynist or a racist. It's silly and it's inaccurate.

joe40

Blaze420 wrote: »

I’m simply stating a fact, you on the other hand are acting like all of these ****ing snowflakes I see on blm protest pages - jumping up and down in your own indignation shouting everyone down who doesn’t bow to BLM as a racist and bigot. This might get me banned from the thread but sincerely from me to you and all of your ilk - go **** yourself.

Who is doing the shouting now!!

It is strange to see people up in arms about been shouted down or made support something.
No one has told me who to support, I don't see where this nonsense is coming from.
You're entitled to your opinion, as are others.

YFlyer

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

Horrible stuff.

Where in Limerick was that?

punisher5112

I would love to know was there more to how it all went down.

He was placed inside the police car but then removed. Only times I've seen that is if they are lashing out or have kicked or spat for example.

Obviously none of us were there but definitely kneeling on him as such for so long was beyond ridiculous.

So many lives have been destroyed by this and I hope it's a lesson to the dirty cops or others to just comply and file a complaint later if you feel there was issues.... Yes all well and good and no use of dead but I would like to hope if one isn't kicking off or resisting that they would be ok.

I'm concerned that now wasnt the best time and using a convicted criminal as the poster man for the cause taints it a lot.

What about his victims and have their lives ever been the same.

Seen a clip online from about 2 months back in the US where a young teenager girl is set on by numerous black males, they kicked her to the ground then bounced on her like a trampoline and took her Nike runners and walked off leaving her unconscious....

Now that's sick and that definitely should have been brought up and many many other crimes and murders.

[Deleted User]

Bowie wrote: »

To the well meaning (and otherwise) #alllivesmatter folk. First off it was a response designed to counter #blacklivesmatter not support it. Second, if you're Irish, imagine if during the famine or time of the Black and Tans the Irish had #irishlivesmatter what would the response #alllivesmatter look like? At best a bit dismissive. The Black community, (and their supporters) see their lives are been given less value and are speaking up about it, not saying all other lives don't matter. It needs to be addressed not countered or dismissed.

When Colin Kaepernick kneeled to protest as far up as the President lost their minds and there was instant backlash. Black people were and are still suffering.

I don't support the black community. I treat people as individuals based on their actions and not their skin colour. Black lives matter? Black people suffer injustice? No. Some do. At the hands of some others.

Black community? Jesus.

And really? Asking if we would be upset of there was a dismissive hashtag during the famine?

You are genuinely comparing the famine to America? A country which had a black president who served two terms, which has a somewhat disproportionate amount of wealthy black actors, musicians and celebrities? which has positive discrimination with regards educational and employment opportunities?

America has racism. Everywhere does. You can not eradicate racism. Even if you could, the way to do it would not be to treat a group as victims based on their skin colour. America's police force is not racist, but I'm sure it does have racists in it.

The martyrdom of a man, who by all accounts wasn't a particularly nice man, as the figurehead of this revolution is a misstep in my opinion.

The policemen in question were wrong. They have been charged. It will happen again.

Do we think this will all ensure that no black person is unfairly treated again? Not going to happen. White people get unfairly treated. Asian people get unfairly treated. People treat others unfairly. Simple fact. It's not tolerated and people who do so get punished.

Black lives matter only makes sense if you think that black people are an homogeneous group who all act the same, get treated the same, have the same experiences.

It's bull****.

Warbeastrior

Why do people feel the need for #AllLivesMatter is my question?
Like there are a lot of racism towards black people in the US (Doesn't need examples at this stage) and Europe (Just look at the abuse some footballers get).

I do think a MASSIVE problem is how people react. If someone said #AllLivesMatter to me then I'd tell them my point but not attack them. The video of the Trump supporter getting spit at and pushed as he walked through the protests was deplorable. I would disagree with his views but where is the humanity towards other people.

James Brown

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah he’s right, Floyd had been in prison 5 times and once put a handgun to the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion he was committing with others.

He got murdered by a cop (with 17 complaints under his belt) for passing a forged note, (we don't know if he even knew).
The police do not carry out summary executions. You are trying to justify murder over possession of a bent note.

Just to note: I see a lot of the same folk doing their civic duty 'concerned' we might be getting too sympathetic on the wrong side of this race issue are the same folk helped us out before we got too overly sympathetic for the #metoo movement. Your insecurity racism and bigotry, passed as reasoned debate, disgusts me TBH. Let groups who feel nobody is listening have five minutes ffs.

Kivaro

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah he’s right, Floyd had been in prison 5 times and once put a handgun to the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion he was committing with others.

This I did not know.

James Brown

To the well meaning (and otherwise) #alllivesmatter folk. First off it was a response designed to counter #blacklivesmatter not support it. Second, if you're Irish, imagine if during the famine or time of the Black and Tans the Irish had #irishlivesmatter what would the response #alllivesmatter look like? At best a bit dismissive. The Black community, (and their supporters) see their lives are been given less value and are speaking up about it, not saying all other lives don't matter. It needs to be addressed not countered or dismissed.

When Colin Kaepernick kneeled to protest as far up as the President lost their minds and there was instant backlash. Black people were and are still suffering.

Rubberchikken

Little point in going on about blacks lives mattering if someone has no regard for any other lives.
Injuring/insulting/dismissing someone for not supporting a cause is, to me, the opposite of what the point of the exercise is.

I've never done social media and it's issues like this that make me glad I never have nor never will.

Kivaro

I'm a bit confused.
Reading the first page, I came across a quoted post:

Originally Posted by DelaneyIn
Irish lives matter. You flutes need to understand that and stop protesting over a convicted armed robber, who put a gun to a pregnant woman, when we are at the height of a global pandemic.

But can't find the original post. Was it deleted, or removed?

Maxpfizer

iamstop wrote: »

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

Thanks for the explanation. I would like some clarity on a couple of points.

What if my belief is that police should not be killing civilians at all ever? Certainly not unarmed civilians. Certainly not during the process of making an arrest? It seems contradictory to me to not want cops to kill anyone at all but also only to express outrage when cops kill someone from a specific race.

If the issue is that police are killing people of a particular race disproportionately then surely this means there is a proportionate level of killing that you would deem acceptable?

For example:
A community has 30 people from Group A and 70 people from Group B.
Police killed 10 people last year. 6 from Group A and 4 from Group B.
It's disproportionate and so people are outraged.

Are we saying that so long as the cops keep their killing to 3 people from Group A and 7 people from Group B then we are OK with it?

Surely the issue, the MAIN issue, is that cops have killed 10 people, regardless of race?

It seems incredibly strange to me that the issue is not that cops are killing civilians but that they are killing a particular demographic at the wrong rate.

Cops: Killing civilians.
Social Media: This is fine. Nothing to see here.
Cops: Continue killing but killing a few too many people from one group.
Social Media: HEY NOW! This is disproportionate!

How can you sit back and accept police killings of different groups, only becoming outraged when the killings become disproportionate, and then sit there with a straight face and accuse others of being terrible humans?

I don't use any of the hashtags because I think it's all bullsh!t.
I reckon cops should not be killing unarmed civilians. Full stop.
That's not a racial issue.

Once you introduce the concept of "disproportionate killing" into the mix it becomes a racial issue because you have stopped being concerned that the police are killing people in general and are only concerned that the are killing too many people from one section of society.

Or are you saying that the cops need to get down to killing people in line with the demographics of the particular country in question and THEN we'll get on to "all lives matter"?

Seems easier to just be outraged every single time the cops kill and unarmed civilian, regardless of race.

Apparently in 2018 there were 150 police officers killed in the line of duty in the USA. With the cops killing an absolutely frightening 992 civilians (451 white, 229 black, 165 hispanic, 40 other, 107 unkown).

Now THAT looks, to me, like an extremely serious social issue that transcends race.

You can't seriously be suggesting that if the cops had maybe kept the killing of black Americans down to say 150 or so then everything would be fine?

Looking at those stats why would the campaign be anything other than "all lives matter"?

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It was a joke I'd say.

It was. Joke aren't permitted by some either. Never mind on sure it will pass.
Il keep on trucking

na1

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

Horrible stuff.

https://www.yapfiles.ru/show/2389064/df87274cfc5ebb66c5ae5d64a31869a7.mp4.html

na1

iamstop wrote: »

2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
.

'BlackLivesMatter' hashtag is racist by the definition of the racism.

it is no less racist as 'WhitePower' hashtag

Are we allowed to make racial statements here?

One eyed Jack

iamstop wrote: »

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:

How delightfully condescending of you.

iamstop wrote: »

3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

You say that like your own attempt to suggest “people who don’t share my point of view are terrible humans“, isn’t just as deceitful, hateful and manipulative as the people you’re aiming to “educate”. Perhaps educating yourself as to why people would point out that all lives matter is a better use of your time and a far less divisive strategy than imagining your opinions are more important than anyone elses.

joe40

Gatling wrote: »

Not buying it .

It was created by the oppresors ,

Or the simple fact all lives do actually matter , being watching various people come out and publicly demand others post about BLM on social media or be called a racist , sounds like a new form of social Nazisim support our cause or your getting publicly destroyed great message of oppression there .

Maybe I move in different circles but nobody has asked me to post anything.

All lives matter as a way to somehow diminish black lives matter is just pure deflection.

When John Hume and others were protesting civil rights for Catholics in the North that was their protest. There was support from many parts of the world.

They were met with violence and intimidation, but not once were they met with idiots saying "all civil rights matter"

Of course all civil rights matter, that's a given their particular protest was civil rights for Catholics in NI.

The black people in America weren't of the opinion that John Hume was diminishing them.

I can support BLM, purely because all lives matter.

Mad_maxx

Blaze420 wrote: »

Yeah he’s right, Floyd had been in prison 5 times and once put a handgun to the stomach of a pregnant woman during a home invasion he was committing with others.

the officers likely knew how dangerous he was so employed extra aggressive tactics while restraining him , officer who killed him needs the book thrown at him but the record of mr floyd is relevant too