Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop · 05-06-2020 1:53am #1

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

GarIT · 05-06-2020 2:03am

How black people are treated in the USA is incredibly similar to how Irish people are treated in NI, how can we include them?

I doubt there is a movement that has the goal of increasing police brutality.

Many people have said only black lives matter. There have been many BLM protestors who have said they should be killing cops or white people as revenge or to make it even. I don't take them seriously, they are the edge case nutters but it's not correct to say nobody is saying it.

DelaneyIn · 05-06-2020 2:06am

Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

Horrible stuff.

GSBellew · 05-06-2020 2:15am

Point 2a you state that it's universally accepted that all lives matter.

Should this be the case it negates the need to say that any lives matter.

My life matters, as much as anyone's, if saying so makes me racist.........

Warbeastrior · 05-06-2020 2:19am

#BlackLivesMatter is the right and appropriate hashtag as black people are as a whole treated worse than white people in the US and further afield. As a white male, I know my life matters but were I black, I'd be questioning whether a lot of people thought that.
As was said over the last few days, if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

GSBellew · 05-06-2020 2:33am

Warbeastrior wrote: »

#BlackLivesMatter is the right and appropriate hashtag as black people are as a whole treated worse than white people in the US and further afield. As a white male, I know my life matters but were I black, I'd be questioning whether a lot of people thought that.
As was said over the last few days, if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

I'll contra that with the point that making the black v white distinction is in itself contrary to the concept of inclusiveness and is racist.

If all lives matter is racist and white lives matter is racist than it's clear that black lives matter should also be racist.

GarIT · 05-06-2020 2:37am

It seems to me like the feminism issue. The argument that feminism is by definition sexist and that modern feminism has gone from being about female equality to female superiority.

BLM is the correct term for this issue but there are also other issues.

Bobblehats · 05-06-2020 2:42am

Warbeastrior wrote: »

As was said over the last few days, if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

But what if they come over and say here, I worked my life paying a mortgage off on that adjoining house and now it’s tarnished by fire damage because the council took it upon themselves to snap this one up and put you chancers in it. Do you think they’d understand?

iamstop · 05-06-2020 3:34am

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Irish lives matter. You flutes need to understand that and stop protesting over a convicted armed robber, who put a gun to a pregnant woman, when we are at the height of a global pandemic.

It's not about this one guy, George Floyd. This is an on going issue with literally countless instances of police harassment, brutality and death of unarmed black people going back decades. Only not is it being filmed and seen by a wider audience. George Floyd's death just ignited it.

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Here is an Irish lad in limerick getting battered for not supporting black lives matter.

https://www.facebook.com/518620081515968/posts/3466382670073013/?vh=e&d=n

Horrible stuff.

It IS horrible stuff. The thing to realise is that this is no where near a parallel. This is small group of lads getting violent at one person. It is wrong, but these lads are not paid by Limerick to protect that guy. They never swore an oath. They don't have any authority over him. Any they haven't been doing it for decades.

GSBellew wrote: »

Point 2a you state that it's universally accepted that all lives matter.

Should this be the case it negates the need to say that any lives matter.

My life matters, as much as anyone's, if saying so makes me racist.........

There is no mention of racism for using the alllivesmatter hashtag. People can use it in ignorance. Once they learn the reason that both hashtags exist they can make an informed choice to use or not use it. If they choose to use it even after knowing the fact then there is ground to call them out on it.

GSBellew wrote: »

I'll contra that with the point that making the black v white distinction is in itself contrary to the concept of inclusiveness and is racist.

If all lives matter is racist and white lives matter is racist than it's clear that black lives matter should also be racist.

alllivematter is ignorant. I'm not sure you read the full OP. Or perhaps you just didn't comprehend it all.

Bobblehats wrote: »

But what if they come over and say here, I worked my life paying a mortgage off on that adjoining house and now it’s tarnished by fire damage because the council took it upon themselves to snap this one up and put you chancers in it. Do you think they’d understand?

This is waffle and irrelevant.

Brussels Sprout · 05-06-2020 4:37am

GSBellew wrote: »

If all lives matter is racist and white lives matter is racist than it's clear that black lives matter should also be racist.

"All lives matter" and "White Lives matter" are not racist per se. It is self evident that both are true statements.

However, it just so happens that a lot of racists like throwing them out as a cudgel against the BLM statement.

The BLM advocates are looking for equality and parity with how white people are treated by police. They're not asking for anything to be removed from white people but the "All Live Matter"/"White Lives Matter" brigade behave like they are going to lose some rights themselves.

Outlaw Pete · 05-06-2020 5:10am

iamstop wrote: »

It's not about this one guy, George Floyd. This is an on going issue with literally countless instances of police harassment, brutality and death of unarmed black people going back decades. Only not is it being filmed and seen by a wider audience. George Floyd's death just ignited it.

You say that as of police brutality is not something other races have to contend with but that's just false, no matter how many hashtags claim otherwise. The truth is that when the victims of police brutality are white, the mainstream media just don't report on those instances of police brutality in anywhere near as amplified a way as when the victim was black and the cop white. Daniel Shaver perhaps the only case of an unarmed white guy being killed which was covered comparably to a white cop black victim killing.

A case which wasn't well reported, for example, was the case of Tony Timpa whose killing was quite similar to Floyd's in fact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

From a study that came out last year:

“We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime.”

What a lot of the studies pushed by the left focus on is that the black population is only around 13% but yet they make up 30% of the deaths by the hands of the police but a crucial factor which those studies usually sidestep is that:

"..per capita racial disparity in fatal shootings is explained by non-White people’s greater exposure to the police through crime.."

There are if course bound to be some racists in the US Police force but not anywhere near the level that there would need to be to justify the claim that racism is systemic within it. There is just no evidence of that. Here's a good recent article from the WSJ on the topic:

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. On Friday, Barack Obama tweeted that for millions of black Americans, being treated differently by the criminal justice system on account of race is “tragically, painfully, maddeningly ‘normal.’ ” Mr. Obama called on the police and the public to create a “new normal,” in which bigotry no longer “infects our institutions and our hearts.”

Joe Biden released a video the same day in which he asserted that all African-Americans fear for their safety from “bad police” and black children must be instructed to tolerate police abuse just so they can “make it home.” That echoed a claim Mr. Obama made after the ambush murder of five Dallas officers in July 2016. During their memorial service, the president said African-American parents were right to fear that their children may be killed by police officers whenever they go outside.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz denounced the “stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism” on law enforcement during a Friday press conference. He claimed blacks were right to dismiss promises of police reform as empty verbiage.

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.

The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

Gruffalux · 05-06-2020 5:43am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You say that as of police brutality is not something other races have to contend with but that's just false, no matter how many hashtags claim otherwise. The truth is that when the victims of police brutality are white, the mainstream media just don't report on those instances of police brutality in anywhere near as amplified a way as when the victim was black and the cop white. Daniel Shaver perhaps the only case of an unarmed white guy being killed which was covered comparably to a white cop black victim killing.

A case which wasn't well reported, for example, was the case of Tony Timpa whose killing was quite similar to Floyd's in fact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

From a study that came out last year:

What a lot of the studies pushed by the left focus on is that the black population is only around 13% but yet they make up 30% of the deaths by the hands of the police but a crucial factor which those studies usually sidestep is that:

There are if course bound to be some racists in the US Police force but not anywhere near the level that there would need to be to justify the claim that racism is systemic within it. There is just no evidence of that. Here's a good recent article from the WSJ on the topic:

Really good post. Especially the quoted article. The deaths are almost wholly a function, not of population, but of activity.
There will always be horrific exceptions to overall reality, such as in Floyd's case. But the exceptions do not change the statistically provable overall reality.

Edited to add that as cheesy as it might seem these images are more real for more US citizens. That huge country has been more successful as a racial melting pot than as a racist cesspool - https://www.boredpanda.com/random-acts-of-kindness-faith-in-humanity-restored-this-is-america-racism/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

Necro · 05-06-2020 8:10am

Mod:

Thread moved to Current Affairs, reminder to read the charter before posting

punisher5112 · 05-06-2020 8:12am

Why is it always turned into a race war.

We are all human beings, breath and bleed exactly the same....

Better education and prospects for all, more equal opportunity for all.

05-06-2020 8:21am

Warbeastrior wrote: »

if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

That's a lazy and false equivalent. You could just as easily say:

If a neighbour's house was on fire, because I don't want any house on fire, I wanted to help but was told to shut up and listen as my house never goes on fire and it is somehow my fault or responsibility that their house is on fire.

I don't subscribe to all lives matter either.

Some peoples lives don't matter to me. As is the case for every single one of us if we were honest and not looking to hop on the bandwagon.

Annasopra · 05-06-2020 8:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a lazy and false equivalent. You could just as easily say:

If a neighbour's house was on fire, because I don't want any house on fire, I wanted to help but was told to shut up and listen as my house never goes on fire and it is somehow my fault or responsibility that their house is on fire.

I don't subscribe to all lives matter either.

Some peoples lives don't matter to me. As is the case for every single one of us if we were honest and not looking to hop on the bandwagon.

Thats your opinion though. There is quite a lot of scientific research suggesting we are not all inherently selfish.

Del2005 · 05-06-2020 8:54am

Warbeastrior wrote: »

As was said over the last few days, if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

You do realise that if a property is on fire the fire services will put water onto neighbouring properties so that they don't go on fire.

Where is the hash tag for Filipino's getting executed by their police on the order of their president? Or how about the Brazilian police killing their people in the favelas?

There are numerous other countries where there is government endorsed repression of minorities why have there been no protests outside the Chinese, Russian, Saudi, UAE etc embassies?

TomTomTim · 05-06-2020 8:55am

iamstop wrote: »

3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

This, if you don't agree with me you're a terrible person stick, is the very problem with you people. There's no room for balance, or discussion. You might as well say agree with me or you're a heretic. You people are a giving fundamentalist Christians a good run for their money.

whisky_galore · 05-06-2020 8:57am

Del2005 wrote: »

You do realise that if a property is on fire the fire services will put water onto neighbouring properties so that they don't go on fire.

Where is the hash tag for Filipino's getting executed by their police on the order of their president? Or how about the Brazilian police killing their people in the favelas?

There are numerous other countries where there is government endorsed repression of minorities why have there been no protests outside the Chinese, Russian, Saudi, UAE etc embassies?

#onlytrendyhashtagsmatter

05-06-2020 9:39am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats your opinion though. There is quite a lot of scientific research suggesting we are not all inherently selfish.

I said that some peoples lives don't matter to me. And that if people were honest they would admit that themselves. There is nothing inherently selfish about that.

GarIT · 05-06-2020 9:58am

Just an update on the point 2 a, I have been told three times in the last 24 hours that I am racist for not attending the protest and COVID-19 is a silly excuse to use to cover up my racism. And "**** the old and vulnerable they are going to die soon anyway black people have longer to live and will suffer more #BLM"

Gruffalux · 05-06-2020 10:14am

Black Lives Matter have an interesting stated objective on their website.

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."

The point has often been made, perhaps most notably by Barack Obama, that the absence of fathers is much more prevalent in Black homes in America. Apparently this is a racist trope to point out. Bold Obama.
But personally I think it is worthy of consideration. And rather than aim to disrupt the nuclear family perhaps a black lives movement would be better encouraging fathers and mothers to rear their children together where possible or failing that for both patents to maintain very regular close connection with their children. Criminal activity statistics and poverty correlate with parental absence, as square and unacceptable as this may be to those who admire disruptive ideologies.

antimatterx · 05-06-2020 10:15am

Apparently saying BLM is fine, but saying WLM is racist. I get the sentiment of it, but if you think that one is perfectly acceptable, and one is a racist term, then you're a hypocrite.

My friends are calling me a racist for saying WLM is a group chat, but it's ok for them to say BLM because it's a populist movement. I don't think so.

ExMachina1000 · 05-06-2020 10:16am

#Irishlivesmatter

nthclare · 05-06-2020 10:18am

I don't give a flying **** about the state of the world at the moment,not a Jack ****...
Because I can do **** all to change it, but can only do little things like help a friend or put whats affordable into a poor box.
Clean the front of my house, help my sister with her sick kid, bring shopping to my mum and dad.

Give a helping hand to the local farmer when the cow's break loose, take a bag of rubbish from the beach and that's enough a bag.

Pay the bills and do an honest day's work, just basically embrace what I have and mind my own business.
When I find myself on board's being a smart arse or trying to stir the pot and getting carried away with the buzz of rolling in the **** with a pig I realize that I'm just as bad if not worse than the guy or woman here I'm debating and trying to get one over on.

A member of board's last night pulled me off my sanctimonious ivory tower, suggested that I need to take a break.
And for the first time in a long time, something inside me heard my late grandmother saying to me. Peter you're an absolute rogue, but never let it go too far...
And that boardie was right, take a break from the discussion.

Now a lot of people are here including myself getting a personal gain and probably a buzz from the state of a nation across the ocean.
Nothing better to be doing, getting all anxty with each other and tit for tat.

How many of you can put up your fcking hands and admit that you can be a prick on board's ?

I can and I've often been at loggerheads with the moderators, but we always sorted it out and I'll back down from the egotistical little monkey telling me I'm always right, and fck the rules..

Signed

A sanctimonious **** stirring prick sometimes...

suicide_circus · 05-06-2020 10:18am

Rampant race baiting going on

05-06-2020 10:21am

iamstop wrote: »

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

I assume you are a black male?

ExMachina1000 · 05-06-2020 10:24am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I assume you are a black male?

You assumed his/her/? gender! That's a site ban

jam_mac_jam · 05-06-2020 10:38am

I presume that when the movement started they didn't call it black lives matter too is that it is assumed that all lives matter. I doubt it was specifically to say only black lives matter.

I do think it is alienating people against a problem that happens to all races which is police brutality. I have seen statistics to say that it does effect black people more and that it doesn't. So I don't know. If it's a class issue or a race issue or both.

What is clear is that there is a huge issue with the behaviour of some of the police in the US. Their selection, their training, their militaristic equipment. It badly needs reform.

jam_mac_jam · 05-06-2020 10:40am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You assumed his/her/? gender! That's a site ban

It's really not. This isn't Twitter but keep trying to make out that boards is something it's not.

paw patrol · 05-06-2020 10:41am

Warbeastrior wrote: »

As was said over the last few days, if someone's house was on fire and they were using water to put it out. It would look very stupid if his neighbour came over giving out to them asking why they weren't putting any water on his house even though it's not on fire. That's what the #AllLivesMatter hashtag is like.

your analogy gives no thought to hosing water on the neighbours house to prevent the fire spreading. Quite selfish of you tbh

Anyway people live in a singular place like a city you are one society not separate houses so the analogy is very flawed.
The fact you parrot that analogy (which i've seen online a million times at this stage) shows the moronic group think at play

Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

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