Three dead as woman beheaded in France

29-10-2020 2:52pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

Did the elderly parishioner who was beheaded show pictures of Mohammed?

29-10-2020 2:53pm

"Mostly peaceful" Church service.

jam_mac_jam · 29-10-2020 2:55pm

Yes lets not have cartoons that offend people. Lets bow down to the horror of killing old ladies in a church.

Absolutely disgusting that anyone could justify such behaviour.

Fair play to France and it's secular democracy long may it continue and have the bravery to stand up for the free speech and democratic ideals that their republic was founded on.

biko · 29-10-2020 2:55pm

I am so very old I can actually remember when there were no Islamist terror attacks anywhere in Europe.
It was in the 90s.

TCM · 29-10-2020 2:56pm

PointHop123 wrote:

Oh no. Are the Quakers acting up again?

No it's catholics I believe.

osarusan · 29-10-2020 2:56pm

I wonder will this turn out to be linked to Erdogan's bluster in the last few days, or is it linked to the more ...eh...traditional...Islamic terrorism.

jam_mac_jam · 29-10-2020 2:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did the elderly parishioner who was beheaded show pictures of Mohammed?

The most harmless person that could be found. Could he not find a baby in a buggy to kill.

The idea of what he did to an elderly woman in a place of worship is disgusting.

Muslim organisations are coming out against it and yet you have people saying oh you shouldn't have shown the cartoon. You have to expect trouble.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 29-10-2020 2:58pm

I wonder why do some people choose to live in a country that aggravates them to the point that they think beheading and killing people are acceptable.

I'm not religious and I couldn't live in a strict Islamic country. That's not coming from a racist position, I just couldn't fit in with the culture, it's too different to what I have been used to. I don't want them to change, just wouldn't want to live in a country like that.

The same should apply to Islamic fundamentalists in Europe. If you find the culture so jarring then just don't f**king live there. Life is too short to be miserable, angry and full of hate.

29-10-2020 3:04pm

Anyone who condemns this atrocity but adds the slightest caveat about publishing cartoons, is NOT condemning it. They are condoning it despite what they say.

There should no mention of cartoons with this. No soft bigotry of low expectations. Violence is never justified. This needs to be a line in the sand.

TomTomTim · 29-10-2020 3:04pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

People like you should go live with the savages, instead of forcing us all to change our ways for the savages.

Tony EH · 29-10-2020 3:04pm

thegetawaycar wrote: »

WTF is wrong with some people

There is a very large amount of people in the world with a deep level of psychopathy and all it takes is the right set of circumstances for it to manifest itself in murderous behaviour.

karlitob · 29-10-2020 3:05pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

While ignoring your false equivalence.....

Because there is no right not to be ridiculed or offended. Neither does someone have the right to behead another person just because they ‘belief’ in a magical man in the sky offends them.

I don’t think that Protestants should have suffered from the Spanish Inquisition. Your view seems to be that they shouldn’t have bothered expressing their view and burnings and beheadings were expected. Sure they only antagonised the true believers.

I’m personally offended that people don’t believe in vaccination. They should keep their beliefs to themselves by your thinking just in case someone takes matters into their own hands and harms someone who offended them.

It’s really a stupid and ignorant view that you have. And spoken like someone who has a right to offend and didn’t need to do anything to acquire it.

Besides - it may have escaped your notice that by writing and publishing the name Mohammed on a public forum - you have offended the same people who would behead someone because of it.

You should do 10 Hail Marys and an our father in penance.

Rodney Bathgate · 29-10-2020 3:07pm

Another animal that needs to be put down.

karlitob · 29-10-2020 3:08pm

Nehemiah Defeated Duster wrote: »

I wonder why do some people choose to live in a country that aggravates them to the point that they think beheading and killing people are acceptable.

I'm not religious and I couldn't live in a strict Islamic country. That's not coming from a racist position, I just couldn't fit in with the culture, it's too different to what I have been used to. I don't want them to change, just wouldn't want to live in a country like that.

The same should apply to Islamic fundamentalists in Europe. If you find the culture so jarring then just don't f**king live there. Life is too short to be miserable, angry and full of hate.

Religions are not races.

It’s not racist to condemn, ridicule or offend any facet of Catholicism.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 29-10-2020 3:08pm

That's true, should have said sectarian.

suicide_circus · 29-10-2020 3:08pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

This is the selfish view that alot of people have, i don't believe or have faith so therefore it doesn't matter to me.

Appeasement dosnt work. Turning the other cheek is an immoral doctrine. If someone wants to control my freedom of expression through violence, they are may enemy and i want to see them destroyed.

TomTomTim · 29-10-2020 3:09pm

I'm deeply offended by ThewhiteJesus, out of respect to me ThewhiteJesus should never post again.

boombang · 29-10-2020 3:09pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In any democracy you should be be allowed make fun of any sky god you like in my considered opinion.

That's all good in principle. In practice, you've got a few million Muslim people living in France, a tiny minority might take violent offence.

Just wait 200 years until religious belief has waned and then you can show as much disrespect to religion as you want.

jam_mac_jam · 29-10-2020 3:11pm

boombang wrote: »

That's all good in principle. In practice, you've got a few million Muslim people living in France, a tiny minority might take violent offence.

Just wait 200 years until religious belief has waned and then you can show as much disrespect to religion as you want.

The tiny minority should not live in a secular democracy if they are offended by a picture.

Why should France change their whole society for the views of a tiny minority of a minority.

TomTomTim · 29-10-2020 3:12pm

boombang wrote: »

That's all good in principle. In practice, you've got a few Muslim people living in France, a tiny minority might take violent offence.

Just wait 200 years until religious belief has waned and then you can show as much disrespect to religion as you want.

The naivety. In reality secularism will die before religions die, your path of "progress" isn't going to go as you think.

Geuze · 29-10-2020 3:13pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If people don't like living in a Republic where Church and State are separate, and freedom of expression allowed, there are many other countries more suited to their mind set.
France would be happy to see them go.

Yes.

Why are there Chechens in France at all?

Geuze · 29-10-2020 3:13pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In any democracy you should be be allowed make fun of any sky god you like in my considered opinion.

Note that Mohammed was a human man, not God.

Amirani · 29-10-2020 3:14pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

Attitudes like this led to the Catholic Church having an untouchable status in Ireland. No criticism allowed of a religion or its practices has throughout history led to abuses of power and a positioning that's effectively unanswerable to the people or their democratically elected representatives.

So newspapers, magazines etc. should be able to use satire and critique against any religion once it's not inciting hatred towards its followers. They broke no laws in doing so.

SnowyMay · 29-10-2020 3:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of western democracy.

I wouldn't want to offend anyone's beliefs, but I should (and do) have the freedom to ridicule anyone I want.

But why would you want to? This is one of the best parts of religion - a belief in not hurting others if possible.

Now, we clearly have some nutcases as evidenced by the purpose of this thread, but why the heck would you go out to purposefully cause anybody distress. The world is challenging enough as it is.

Amirani · 29-10-2020 3:19pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

what your saying is so much worse than your alleged victim blaming slur on me which is incorrect, again as i have spelled out.
why you people can't see that is strange to me.
Much like the traveller threads, people can do and say what they like about muslims/travellers as if they are all exactly the same, sub human.
and no warnings, yet i have had some really lame ones(warnings) in others threads over nothing.
Funny that

You are clearly victim blaming here. You should have a long hard think about things coming into a thread about 3 innocent people being murdered and placing the blame on anyone other than the perpetrator.

Are you the sort to avoid blaming rapists when women get raped, or is it just when they get their heads chopped off?

Tacitus Kilgore · 29-10-2020 3:19pm

biko wrote: »

I am so very old I can actually remember when there were no Islamist terror attacks anywhere in Europe.
It was in the 90s.

Aye, me too, twas the christians back then - round here anyway.

This is a horrible atrocity, yet another in a long line of horrible acts in the name of some god or another. Organised religion is evil - needs to be removed from peoples lives & society before the human race can move on from pointless hate & depravity. How? I've no idea..

Money & prosperity worked with (mostly) booting out the hold of the catholic church over Ireland, not sure if that will work with all the other bollixologies though..

29-10-2020 3:20pm

SnowyMay wrote: »

But why would you want to? This is one of the best parts of religion - a belief in not hurting others if possible.

Now, we clearly have some nutcases as evidenced by the purpose of this thread, but why the heck would you go out to purposefully cause anybody distress. The world is challenging enough as it is.

If I am told that I CAN NOT ridicule something, you can be sure that's the first thing I will ridicule.

I respect people but not people who demand what I do or feel they are allowed dictate what I say.

I will not force you to look at my pictures or listen to my words. You can not force me to not make pictures or speak those words.

Huge ****ing difference

29-10-2020 3:21pm

boombang wrote: »

That's all good in principle. In practice, you've got a few million Muslim people living in France, a tiny minority might take violent offence.

Just wait 200 years until religious belief has waned and then you can show as much disrespect to religion as you want.

The penalty for leaving Islam is death. Not extreme ideology. The bog standard muslim doctrine I'm talking about. That rule is what keeps Islam such a tight ship. People fear for themselves and their families.

29-10-2020 3:22pm

Amirani wrote: »

Are you the sort to avoid blaming rapists when women get raped, or is it just when they get their heads chopped off?

Another crowd are well known for killing or imprisoning rape victims... can't put my finger on what crowd that is....

29-10-2020 3:24pm

SnowyMay wrote: »

But why would you want to? This is one of the best parts of religion - a belief in not hurting others if possible.

Now, we clearly have some nutcases as evidenced by the purpose of this thread, but why the heck would you go out to purposefully cause anybody distress. The world is challenging enough as it is.

Very few organisations can stand up to mockery. It's an essential tool in being able to level the playing field.

Every country has it's cultural norms they don't want mocked (see how far you would get doing a skit about Padraig Pearse wanting to ride his schoolboy students on the morning of the 1916 Rising here for example), doesn't mean we shouldn't have the right to do so.

Tony EH · 29-10-2020 3:25pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Aye, me too, twas the christians back then - round here anyway.

This is a horrible atrocity, yet another in a long line of horrible acts in the name of some god or another. Organised religion is evil - needs to be removed from peoples lives & society before the human race can move on from pointless hate & depravity. How? I've no idea..

Money & prosperity worked with (mostly) booting out the hold of the catholic church over Ireland, not sure if that will work with all the other bollixologies though..

No. It was better education for the masses that worked. Coupled with a gradual and natural questioning of authority that rose in the 20th Century due to better literacy and cognitive reasoning.

Tony EH · 29-10-2020 3:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If I am told that I CAN NOT ridicule something, you can be sure that's the first thing I will ridicule.

That's the reasoning of a two year old.

Perhaps a better response would be to question why.

Tacitus Kilgore · 29-10-2020 3:27pm

Tony EH wrote: »

No. It was better education for the masses that worked. Coupled with a gradual and natural questioning of authority that rose in the 20th Century due to better literacy and cognitive reasoning.

So, money & prosperity then?

ThewhiteJesus · 29-10-2020 3:28pm

Amirani wrote: »

You are clearly victim blaming here. You should have a long hard think about things coming into a thread about 3 innocent people being murdered and placing the blame on anyone other than the perpetrator.

Are you the sort to avoid blaming rapists when women get raped, or is it just when they get their heads chopped off?

Clearly i'm not, have a think about falsely accusing people in the wrong.
the rest you have posted is nonsense.

Tony EH · 29-10-2020 3:29pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

So, money & prosperity then?

No, education.

29-10-2020 3:30pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Clearly i'm not, have a think about falsely accusing people in the wrong.
the rest you have posted is nonsense.

What is the line in the sand you personally would draw when it comes to "not offending someone"? When does it become acceptable? When does it cross over into not acceptable?

Salvation Tambourine · 29-10-2020 3:30pm

I find it sad that there is even a debate to be had in this thread and it's not just full of condolences and understandable anger.

Tacitus Kilgore · 29-10-2020 3:30pm

Tony EH wrote: »

No, education.

Okie dokey - you are agreeing with me but dressing it up as disagreeing for some reason.

29-10-2020 3:30pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In any democracy you should be be allowed make fun of any sky god you like in my considered opinion.

I think you mean in your ideal world, which I think we'll agree on, this one is far from ideal. in the current democracy we cannot even call people male or female as it were, without upsetting people. so actually not just extreme religious groups but almost everyone wants you beheaded or cancelled or imprisoned for one such slight on their beliefs/views or another.. mad stuff altogether

ThewhiteJesus · 29-10-2020 3:31pm

SnowyMay wrote: »

But why would you want to? This is one of the best parts of religion - a belief in not hurting others if possible.

Now, we clearly have some nutcases as evidenced by the purpose of this thread, but why the heck would you go out to purposefully cause anybody distress. The world is challenging enough as it is.

I couldn't agree more and is the basis of my point, but people are sooooo blinded by rage they can't see it, including a number of mods.

SnowyMay · 29-10-2020 3:31pm

Peter Sampson wrote: »

Fine so. Since I'm Catholic I will demand that no one mocks or criticizes the Church.

Ah, FFS. I am not talking about demanding anything. I just don’t understand why people think it’s ok to mock others. That lunatic does not represent everybody in their class, creed, religion.

I personally prefer not to hurt people. Even if I do have a right.

Tacitus Kilgore · 29-10-2020 3:31pm

rusty cole wrote: »

I think you mean in your ideal world, which I think we'll agree on, this one is far from ideal. in the current democracy we cannot even call people male or female as it were, without upsetting people. so actually not just extreme religious groups but almost everyone wants you beheaded or cancelled or imprisoned for one such slight on their beliefs/views or another.. mad stuff altogether

Yeah we can, don't be so dramatic.

givyjoe · 29-10-2020 3:33pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

Complete and utter nonsense, it's the opposite of personal. It's a religion with billions of followers. I cannot comprehend how any rational person, never mind an extremist, is upset by a cartoon mocking a religious figure. It's ludicrous. I'm catholic yet I have absolutely zero issue with Family Guy lampooning Jesus.

AlphaDelta1 · 29-10-2020 3:33pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In any democracy you should be be allowed make fun of any sky god you like in my considered opinion.

Absolutely. The French are correct and i fully support taking the piss out of any and all religions.

spoonerhead · 29-10-2020 3:33pm

We’ve spent the last 6 months battling a pandemic to save lives.

When do we start addressing Islamic extremists who are a risk to national security? I find it astonishing the amount of LGB friends I have coming forward to defend these tribal and in my option out dated beliefs. What’s more is the amount of Muslims who will continue to blame the west and history as reasons for innocent people being butchered.

The alt right can only grow and grow because of our stupidity. Worrying times for anyone who’s centrist and freethinking

emo72 · 29-10-2020 3:35pm

"the punishment for leaving islam is death". Jaysis that's worse than scientology. I mean they try to ruin your life but at least the let you live.

This is like the 1930s all over again. The right will rise in Europe because the left has apologists for every atrocity (see white Jesus). This isn't getting better any time soon lads.

Gunmonkey · 29-10-2020 3:36pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

Christ what a pathetic post. In the grand scale of "reactions to getting angry about something", going from "muttering under your breath" and "angry sigh" all the way up to "mass genocide", someone showing a cartoon you dont like jumps ya straight past the first 99% to "decapitation" is a bit....insane!

What about all the other stuff that upsets Islamic fundamentalists? They arent fond of women showing skin or their hair, so should any no-Muslim woman be behead on Grafton St for disrespecting Islam too? She would only have herself to blame, TBH....coulda just worn a headscarf 24/7, was an easy way round this! Or going to a restaurant during Ramadan....very disrespectful for all those fasting...easiest solution/way round it is to just only eat in your own home or just fast too, so easy!

What about the whole worship of Mohammed himself? Isnt that a pretty fundamental core part of Islam, and anyone who doesnt worship him is now fair game for beheading? I mean, if showing a caricature of himself is grounds for murder, surely not even worshipping him at all is worse?

Nermal · 29-10-2020 3:36pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Organised religion is evil

LOL, just LOL at responses like this, or the 'sky god' comments. So weak.

bb1234567 · 29-10-2020 3:37pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

it's awful, but then i completely disagree with showing pictures of Mohammed when it's a clearly a very personal and upsetting thing for any muslim to see. Why purposely try upset people, it's only one image and plenty of ways around it.
Does it mean it's ok to murder, of course not but it's looking for trouble imo

I know your heart's in the right place but this just comes too close to justifying murder in the name of religion, even an ounce of justification or understanding as to why this ****ing lunatic chose to kill 3 innocent people is completely misplaced in every way

People who think that mocking or misuse of their god can be justified with murder are the only and sole problem in this situation

Tacitus Kilgore · 29-10-2020 3:37pm

emo72 wrote: »

This is like the 1930s all over again. The right will rise in Europe because the left has apologists for every atrocity (see white Jesus). This isn't getting better any time soon lads.

The far right and the far left.

Both are disastrous - and the polarisation of every topic pigeonholes everyone into one side or the other.. it's already gone to far anyway and mass social media has been and will be the blame and vehicle for it.

Three dead as woman beheaded in France

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