Beggars sitting outside shops

riclad · 10-10-2020 12:35pm

i ignore them ,the thing that annoys me is some young lad walking up to
me if i stop for 3 minutes in the street, hey mr,have you got a euro,?
i answer no ,or else walk away . In china beggars uses wepay app,
you tap the code into your phone ,they get a euro in chinese money.

https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/beggars-with-qr-code-chinese-poor-collect-alms-in-mobile-wallets-ditch-tin-bowls/1641567/

I predict in 10 years irish beggars will be using apps or qr codes to get paid.
even beggars can afford to buy an old smartphone.
its very hard to buy anything in china with cash. every shop uses wepay app.
Theres at least free 7 soup kitchens in dublin ,plus people give out food at the gpo at 8pm.
the beggars i see are in their 20,s ,im sure they can walk to a soup kitchen.they look very healthy.

delboythedub · 10-10-2020 12:35pm

ignore them

Rothko · 10-10-2020 12:36pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I watched a documentary with Ed stafford .... he went to live on the streets for 60 days and he said at end of it if they really wanted to get off the street there was the opportunity to do that ..... they choose to live on street through drug addiction and a range of mental health issues .......

Theres a lot of opportunitys to living and begging on streets....

Watch the link below, it's very informative from a genuine guy.

https://youtu.be/wNWJCI7h0us

Almost no response to this, which is exactly what I expected.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 12:49pm

Rothko wrote: »

Almost no response to this, which is exactly what I expected.

i do like stafford myself, but id have to disagree with him on this one, you must leave the world of logic and enter the world of deep illogical and dysfunctional emotional world, in order to somewhat understand addiction, mental health issues and homelessness

Stovepipe · 10-10-2020 1:42pm

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 1:44pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

so why arent we dealing with this appropriately?

Pkiernan · 10-10-2020 1:45pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

A good dousing would shift them
And at a petrol station too...

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 1:46pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

A good dousing would shift them
And at a petrol station too...

interesting 'appropriate' approach!

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 1:51pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised. I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

McGinniesta · 10-10-2020 2:06pm

I find that my feelings change according to the circumstances.

A lot of people are clearly having a hard time in life be it drugs, booze, mental illness or just plain bad luck. I feel a certain degree of sympathy for these people.

Whether I'd want them begging outside my front door now is a different matter but just moving them on doesn't solve anyone's problem either.

That's a selfish standpoint I know but one I could empathise with.

I find that organised begging is also another issue entirely and should be targeted more aggressively where possible.

10-10-2020 2:09pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

10-10-2020 2:12pm

LeBash wrote: »

Am I mistaken or was there not a law put in place that you couldn't beg (or whatever the correct pc term would be) within 10 meters of an open business?

ah FFS mate, read the thread!

McGinniesta · 10-10-2020 2:15pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

That's semantics. I think we all know the difference. Organising numbers of people to beg is essentially pimping by another name.

10-10-2020 2:18pm

MarkY91 wrote: »

Mad how we can give homes and dole to these Roma Gypsies that beg on the street but we can barely even give a bed in a hostel to homeless Irish people.

Crazy oul country. Absolute madness.

Where does this nonsense originate? seriously, what facebook link told you this?

We can always give a bed to a homeless Irish. Beds can always be sourced. Even emergency homeless as in arriving to a Garda station at 2am will result in a bed outside of very unusual circumstances. The main one being that the person has been evicted as a result of continued anti-social behaviour. Not just from whatever house they originally had but also the homeless units they were booked into. Be under no illusions, Margaret Cash was a photo op pure and simple.

and we dont give homes and dole to Roma Gypsies. They must prove they wont be a burden on the state in order to obtain a PPS number just like all immigrants from other EU states. You need a PPS number to apply for welfare and the homing list. Being unemployed with no realistic source of income will result in a rejected application.

They dont actually claim welfare you will find but instead fly as much under the radar as possible.

As opposed to the Irish junkie that was getting paid directly into his bank account so flew one way to Alicante and wasnt coming back until they called him for an interview which is every few months. I had the pleasure of sitting beside this toothless gentleman on the flight.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:19pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

One guy isnt 'organised' begging and 'organised' begging isnt a crime. Its 'organising begging' thats a crime as in a hierarchy. Beggers agreeing spots each isnt illegal

The other parts about breaking shop windows and vandalising a car would be good information.

10-10-2020 2:19pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

That's semantics. I think we all know the difference. Organising numbers of people to beg is essentially pimping by another name.

Then dont claim they are crimes when the law does seperate them. You cant rock into court with a lad and just say "Ah well sure Judge we all know it, its only semantics"

10-10-2020 2:21pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The other parts about breaking shop windows and vandalising a car would be good information.

Except the comment was specifically about organised begging. Read it

Im not saying dont tell the Gardai by the way, but realistic with what they can do with it.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:24pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Except it was a non verbal threat that may or may not have been made but presumed and the chap obviously wasnt willing to tell the Gardai himself.

Im not saying dont tell the Gardai by the way, but realistic with what they can do with it.

It would have more effect than discussing it on the internet and people asking why something isn't being done. The Gardai do take action, but they would benefit from people reporting more.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/almost-50-arrested-gardai-clamp-15412932

10-10-2020 2:38pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would have more effect than discussing it on the internet and people asking why something isn't being done. The Gardai do take action, but they would benefit from people reporting more.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/almost-50-arrested-gardai-clamp-15412932

AGGRESSIVE begging. Not organised. ffs mate, thats the third time I have had to seperate them.

In the scenario we are actually discussing, we are looking at a third party telling Gardai about a story someone else told him that in itself didnt reference any actual act or threat but a percieved threat and the person suggested that it was good info against organised begging. Its not and your link isnt proof of organised begging either

Yes, tell Gardai but dont expect beggers to just get scooped off the street as a result.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 2:51pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

AGGRESSIVE begging. Not organised. ffs mate, thats the third time I have had to seperate them.

In the scenario we are actually discussing, we are looking at a third party telling Gardai about a story someone else told him that in itself didnt reference any actual act or threat but a percieved threat and the person suggested that it was good info against organised begging. Its not and your link isnt proof of organised begging either

Yes, tell Gardai but dont expect beggers to just get scooped off the street as a result.

We are both agreed that it would be good to inform the Gardai. You have already decided what the outcome would be. I have no way of knowing that. But if they got the same report from other people, it would all go to making a case.

It is a serious business where a shop is afraid that their property and that of their staff is under threat of damage by a beggar or beggars.

TheW1zard · 10-10-2020 2:56pm

I usually spit on them or give them a good kick up the hole. The odd time i like to kick their cup over but only when its raining

10-10-2020 3:07pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We are both agreed that it would be good to inform the Gardai. You have already decided what the outcome would be. I have no way of knowing that. But if they got the same report from other people, it would all go to making a case.

It is a serious business where a shop is afraid that their property and that of their staff is under threat of damage by a beggar or beggars.

A case of what? reports from who? If you think it builds a case, show me. Whats the charge? Who are your witnesses? Why cant you seperate the two?

Again, threats from one single person even if reported by a million people doesnt meet the requirements of organising begging. It meets others under public order, assault and criminal damage maybe but NOT organising begging

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 3:12pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

A case of what? reports from who? If you think it builds a case, show me. Whats the charge? Who are your witnesses? Why cant you seperate the two?

Again, threats from one single person even if reported by a million people doesnt meet the requirements of organising begging. It meets others under public order, assault and criminal damage maybe but NOT organising begging

The person who knows about these two, may not know that they could be part of an organised gang doing the same at multiple locations. If they reported what they know to the Gardai, it could tie in with other information. Especially as they seem to suggest that the Garda car was there to observe the begging operations.

I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

Kylta · 10-10-2020 3:25pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

I usually spit on them or give them a good kick up the hole. The odd time i like to kick their cup over but only when its raining

If only I could possess your courage

10-10-2020 3:26pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The person who knows about these two, may not know that they could be part of an organised gang doing the same at multiple locations. If they reported what they know to the Gardai, it could tie in with other information. Especially as they seem to suggest that the Garda car was there to observe the begging operations.

I actually saw one guy arrive on his bike to get set up for begging and he waited until a garda car had driven offand then took up "his" spot. He had a routine in two stations about a mile apart and traded it with another guy and they appeared to be impossible to shift.

ok, so what part of that quote if proof of an offence under section 5 POA 2011? Unless the guy ins question is actually controlling the other person as opposed to simple making a deal, there is no offence under the begging laws

You make stuff up, this is the issue. The OP at no point suggested the Gardai where there to observe the begger. He just said a Garda car was there, prior to the begger arriving it seems.

dxhound2005 · 10-10-2020 3:39pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

ok, so what part of that quote if proof of an offence under section 5 POA 2011? Unless the guy ins question is actually controlling the other person as opposed to simple making a deal, there is no offence under the begging laws

You make stuff up, this is the issue. The OP at no point suggested the Gardai where there to observe the begger. He just said a Garda car was there, prior to the begger arriving it seems.

Along with this other information they posted, I think those two could be part of an organised crime gang. The link I put before shows that the Gardai discovered other crimes when they carried out a crackdown on organised begging. Reporting the intimidation to the Gardai, could lead to them solving other crimes, like shoplifting.

Regarding the beggars outside the doors of petrol stations and why they can't be moved on? I asked a shop attendant in one petrol station about it and he told me the windows would be put in or his own car would get vandalised.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30897107.html

smellyoldboot · 10-10-2020 3:41pm

Burn them all. It's clearly the only answer. That or a good piss blasting.

Edgware · 10-10-2020 5:28pm

We have one lad who only turns up Saturday 9.00 a.m. to 6.00 p.m.
No sign of him anywhere for the rest of the week. But looking at the bundle of shopping he goes away with in the evening as well as loads of cash one day a week is enough. This is on top of his welfare payments.

Wanderer78 · 10-10-2020 5:29pm

Edgware wrote:

We have one lad who only turns up Saturday 9.00 a.m. to 6.00 p.m. No sign of him anywhere for the rest of the week. But looking at the bundle of shopping he goes away with in the evening as well as loads of cash one day a week is enough. This is on top of his welare payments.

....so maybe welfare isn't truly enough to live on?

Stovepipe · 10-10-2020 5:32pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That is the sort of detailed information which could help the Gardai to take action against organised begging. Did you report it.

No. If the station attendant wasn't going to, when he had Gardai shopping in his own station, what was I going to do?

Beggars sitting outside shops

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