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ESB eCars pricing introduction

13567…26

Comments

  • #102
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Great stuff. Finally the old and tired network of ESB fast chargers will become a bit less congested. Missed opportunity to not get very expensive overstay penalties for people fast charging for more than 30 minutes, or just a hefty per minute charge on top of the kWh charge :(

    That lazy journo didn't do their homework though:

    "It will cost electric car drivers more than three times as much to use these public chargers than to charge up using cheap night-time electricity at home."

    More than 4 times. Cheapest night rate is about 8c/kWh including VAT and ESB will charge 33c/kWh

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  • #103
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?


  • #104
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?
    Too many variables,
    If it takes 30 mins 10-80% and 1 hour+ 80-100, people don't go to 100.


  • #105
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,395 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?

    Charging curve, if you need to get somewhere quick it makes no sense to charge past 80% in terms of time it will take. The charging speed will throttle for the last 20% or so on most cars so it mgiht make more sense to just get back on the road and top up again in another however many kms.


  • #106
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Right there is your incentive over diesel! Most your charging should be at home.

    Sucks for renters or apartment dwellers though.
    As an apartment owner/dweller and renter before that , I am in favour of this.


  • #107
    JPA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,788 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?

    If you needed 50% to get home where you can then charge for 1/4 the price you would.

    If you could do the same with petrol or diesel people would as well.


  • #108
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?

    It's confusing to talk about the cost of filling up your ICE car with petrol / diesel too. Depends on how often you fill up, size of your tank, what your consumption is, the price of the fuel, etc. That's why we should compare unit prices. Like the price of a liter of petrol / diesel and the price of a kWh of electricity

    Reminds me of a discussion I once had in work with a group of colleagues. We were all complaining that the price of petrol had gone up quite a bit in the last few months. Then one lady said the price had not gone up at all. She always paid £20 to fill her car up and had done so for years :pac:

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  • #109
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?

    Would you fill your car to full if you had a supply of diesel at home for 1/4 the cost?

    Nearly empty in an electric car is 10% so it's unlikely ev drivers would arrive with less than that, and as mentioned, 80%+ takes longer to charge.
    10% in ICE is maybe 65km. 65km in electric could be 30% battery.


  • #110
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Too many variables,
    If it takes 30 mins 10-80% and 1 hour+ 80-100, people don't go to 100.

    I hear you but the thread is about cost not time. It's confusing if you don't have an EV.


  • #111
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    ELM327 wrote: »
    As an apartment owner/dweller and renter before that , I am in favour of this.

    The pricing sucks for apartment dwellers (who don't have a home charger)


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  • #112
    irishgrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Why do you all refer to bits of charging rather than say it's €20 to from 0-100%, I never half fill my car, I think that's the way most people would compare prices, it's confusing as you can't like for like easily with an ice. I know 0-650km is €70 but what's 0-650km in an EV going on some of the figures above about €45?

    refering to "bits of charging" is because
    a.) rarely do you arive at a station with 0 fuel left
    b.) many cars will not let you charge to 100% and even if you could most people (with somewhere to go) wont charge to 100% becuase rate of charge decreases significantly after 80% or 90%

    So the most common use case tends to be between 20% and 80%

    Remember for the vast majority of users the vast majority of charging will be done at home anyway


  • #113
    Varik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Starting to charge is a big change, the price might by itself might reduce overstay and they always add an extra charge later.


  • #114
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    I wonder will the hogging of the slower "free" chargers get worse now as more and more try avoid paying as long as they can?


  • #115
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    unkel wrote: »
    It's confusing to talk about the cost of filling up your ICE car with petrol / diesel too. Depends on how often you fill up, size of your tank, what your consumption is, the price of the fuel, etc. That's why we should compare unit prices. Like the price of a liter of petrol / diesel and the price of a kWh of electricity

    Price per kilometre is a nice rough guide. Sure there's efficiency, but as a rough guide I can say my ioniq would cost about 4.50 on ESB chargers to go 100km. My old diesel would of been around 10 euro for 100km.


  • #116
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    The pricing sucks for apartment dwellers (who don't have a home charger)

    Not really. Still far cheaper than petrol / diesel. And now at least they have more of a chance to have access to an ESB charger

    Anyway, how many of the 10k or so pure EVs in this country are owned by apartment dwellers who don't have work access to charging either? I suspect only a few. Not that this isn't important going forward of course. We need far more fast chargers. And not just the single vehicle charging stations like the ESB has :rolleyes:

    In countries like Norway or the Netherlands, you never have to worry about charging and most people don't have home charging. You can fast charge almost everywhere - just like you can fill up with petrol here in Ireland.

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  • #117
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Price per kilometre is a nice rough guide.

    Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

    petrol car 15c/km
    diesel car 10c/km
    EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km
    EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km

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  • #118
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    I wonder will the hogging of the slower "free" chargers get worse now as more and more try avoid paying as long as they can?

    I bumped into a guy (idiot) in Athlone at the weekend. I had just started charging at the ESB charger. He rocked up in his leaf and I seen him taking out the DC charger. I told him only 1 can charge at a time. He gestured to say he understood.
    I came back out a few seconds later (spidey sense) and sure enough he had knocked me off charging and add I explained he was having a good auld laugh about it but not suggesting he would stop charging. His session was on the screen so I stopped his charge (think what you want, I was in no humour for this guys antics). He started to understand, and when I said I'll only be 15 minutes he said he'd move to the slower charger (Athlone has a slow charger beside the fast one) as he was going shopping and would be back in a few hours. FFS, what a clown! He is the reason an overstay fee is needed!


  • #119
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    unkel wrote: »
    Not really. Still far cheaper than petrol / diesel. And now at least they have more of a chance to have access to an ESB charger

    Anyway, how many of the 10k or so pure EVs in this country are owned by apartment dwellers who don't have work access to charging either? I suspect only a few. Not that this isn't important going forward of course. We need far more fast chargers. And not just the single vehicle charging stations like the ESB has :rolleyes:

    In countries like Norway or the Netherlands, you never have to worry about charging and most people don't have home charging. You can fast charge almost everywhere - just like you can fill up with petrol here in Ireland.

    Guy at work is in this scenario. Apartment living, no charger at work, short commute. He's interested in an EV, but not sure about living with one without a charger... and the additional cost of an EV is repaid slower if you're relying solely on the public chargers.


  • #120
    Zenith74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Zenith74


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Guy at work is in this scenario. Apartment living, no charger at work, short commute. He's interested in an EV, but not sure about living with one without a charger... and the additional cost of an EV is repaid slower if you're relying solely on the public chargers.
    Black_Knight wrote: »
    The pricing sucks for apartment dwellers (who don't have a home charger)

    Apartment dwellers using fast chargers isn't really a sustainable solution if we're to switch all cars to EVs in the coming years, so probably best to pull that plaster sooner rather than later. As things are the over-stretched fast charging network is negatively affecting the uptake of EVs by all types of users, not just apartment dwellers, so this move at least fixes this issue.

    Work, on-street and apartment carpark charging is the long-term solution for apartment dwellers. If one of these isn't available to an apartment dweller then an EV probably isn't right for them just yet, same as they're not suitable for people driving 600km per day, people who want a people carrier for €15k etc etc.
    But it's a problem that will get solved eventually.

    Somebody made a good point to me on here the other day; that we'll never get private sector companies running charging networks if there's a state sponsored competitor offering free or cheap charging. This pricing is quite a bit cheaper than Ecotricity in the UK (€0.30 vs €0.45 per kWh) so really not that bad imho.


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  • #121
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Price per kilometre is a nice rough guide. Sure there's efficiency, but as a rough guide I can say my ioniq would cost about 4.50 on ESB chargers to go 100km. My old diesel would of been around 10 euro for 100km.

    Not to drag this off topic but what car were you driving to get 100Km for €10 ?
    At todays prices that 7.57 ltrs to 100km.

    Assuming 5.4ltrs per 100Km (which isnt exceptional for a diesel) your looking at around €7.15

    Still more expensive that Electric but not over twice the price..


  • #122
    sk8board
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,401 ✭✭✭sk8board


    unkel wrote: »
    Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

    petrol car 15c/km
    diesel car 10c/km
    EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km
    EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km

    As I’m looking at EVs, I’ve been tracking the cost/km of my 420d and it’s about 7.5-8c currently. Costs €75 at most for a full 55 litres, and it will do 1000 km avg, 900km at a canter and 1100 driving miss daisy.
    I’d expect smaller diesels to be better still.
    I think esbs claim of these prices being 29% less than a diesel fill are about right, but crucially you’d only be using these chargers a v small about.

    The lack of overstay charge is a pity. As a regular train commuter, the same 2-3 EVs (ionic and 2 leafs) park in the charge spots by the entrance every single day for the past few years “charging”. It’s a nonsense.


  • #123
    Moreilly
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭Moreilly


    I have a feeling a lot of non ev people will look at this and think "feck it, around a tenner to charge and that's bound to go up in price and i have to wait around a half an hour to charge it, think ill stick with my petrol/ diesel for my new car and the money saved in the purchase price will pay for the difference in running the car for a long time, and no inconvenience in looking for a charger or waiting for it to charge" and as a ev driver myself for for a couple of years, i can sort of see their logic, and they might not have the option of charging at home.
    Personally i think the charges are needed, but they are too high and there should be a overstay charge also. We seem to be willing to pay well over the odds for things in this country generally and the market responds with giving us higher prices a lot of things , what is the real value of a unit of electricity, how much does it cost to run and grow the charging network and how much are we willing to pay above this?,(they have to make a profit, but how much?... just look at the insurance industry for example...!) after all a charger is no more than a shop that sells electricity really.


  • #124
    jasonb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    So... Sign up to the free membership with reduced rates for the first 12 months. Get 29c per kWh rate.

    I'm wondering if there's an option to cancel the membership after 12 months? I rarely use the Public Network, so the €5 a month rate means there's no reason for me to sign up for membership, it's not cost effective. However, a year's free membership with cheaper rates would save me a little money over the year, as long as I can cancel it afterwards...


  • #125
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Not enough, but better than nothing.

    493575.jpg


  • #126
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    unkel wrote: »
    Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

    petrol car 15c/km

    That's almost 11l/100km :eek:

    A BMW 530e would average 7 max on mixed driving (petrol alone) & as per Bob Flavin, new Toyota hybrids average 4l/100km.

    I reckon you're waaaay off on that.

    Modern diesels can easily average 4.5l/100km.

    An Ioniq (one of the most efficient EVs) would average 200km for 30kWh (charging loses) so 5c/km at 33c/kWh.

    I reckon:
    petrol car 15c/km 8 to 10c/km
    diesel car 10c/km 6c/km
    EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km 1.5c/km
    EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km 5 to 6c/km

    They're will be no financial incentive to those depending solely on public charging. Ionity are 40c/kWh (Maingau) & the €8 direct flat fee won't last forever.

    Think EasyGo charge 35c or more too, excluding their free promos.

    Yes, charging was badly needed but it's just removed a swathe of city/apartment dwellers from considering changing to an EV.

    No doubt it'll push some locals to the SCPs now too as they're free!
    (I've a few eyed up myself - will be a bit of a walk though but free leccy!!)

    It's progress though & a welcome development :D.


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  • #127
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    What are the price plan options?
    There are two price plans: Pay As You Go (PAYG) or Membership, payable by most credit or debit cards.

    PAYG is 33c/kWh with various options such as prepay, auto top up or pay via an anonymous one time credit/debit card payment.

    Membership is recommended for people who use the network frequently. It is 29c/kWh with a €5 monthly subscription.

    The membership route makes little sense even for regular users (a few times a month).


    You pay €60 per year to save 4c/kWh.
    That means you'd need to consume 1500kWh to break even... so 28kWh per week.


    The membership route, imo, is for heavy users (multiple full charges per week)... not regular users. Targeting the apartment dwellers I suppose, but for everyone else it makes more sense to use PAYG.


  • #128
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Kramer wrote: »
    Yes, charging was badly needed but it's just removed a swathe of city/apartment dwellers from considering changing to an EV.
    I have mixed feelings about this.

    On the one hand, there aren't enough batteries to go round so it makes sense from a global sustainability perspective for the first EVs to go to people who have to do massive distances for work. Also, city dwellers can use other forms of transportation e.g. bicycles, e-bikes, public transport.

    On the other hand, air quality in cities would benefit from fewer urban diesels.


  • #129
    cluaindiuic
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭cluaindiuic


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Not enough, but better than nothing.

    493575.jpg

    45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

    Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?


  • #130
    kanuseeme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    cluaindiuic wrote: »
    45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

    Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

    It does not matter, just spread the word, after 45 minutes it will cost you 5 euro, it will stop a lot of idiots.

    Hogging will migrate to the destination chargers.

    https://www.webdoctor.ie/online-prescriptions/#:~:text=Through%20an%20online%20medical%20questionnaire%2C%20face%2Dto%2Dface%20consultation,to%20booking%20a%20video%20consultation. not affiliated, just being helpful.



  • #131
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    unkel wrote: »
    Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

    petrol car 15c/km
    diesel car 10c/km
    EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km
    EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km

    Not sure you are getting your figures from......


    Assuming petrol and Diesel prices of €1.447 and €1.344 per ltr

    Taking real world fuel economy from here

    1.4 TSI 120bhp Golf will give you, real world, 5.92 ltrs per 100km or 8.56c/km

    1.6 TDI golf 115bhp will give you, real world, 4.96 ltrs per 100km 6.66c/km

    Even going bigger

    2.0TDI 150bhp will give you real world 5.34 ltrs per 100km or 7.17c/km

    On the EV side.

    Taking real world range for a Nissan Leaf Techna from here

    110 miles from 40kWh battery or 177km which works out .225kWh per kWh

    On the announced pricing that works out as

    7.45 c/km for non member
    6.52 c/km for a member paying a €5 per month
    unkel wrote: »
    Not really. Still far cheaper than petrol / diesel.

    .

    No its not. Its roughly the same as diesel..


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  • #132
    Silent Running
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭Silent Running


    cluaindiuic wrote: »
    45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

    Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

    45 minutes in, the ecotricity chargers in the UK will auto disconnect you. If you connect at 20%, it won't get a 64kWh Niro to 80%. It depends on the rate of charge though. Some of their chargers are quite slow.

    Ecotricity now charge £0.40 per kW.


  • #133
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    knipex wrote: »
    Not to drag this off topic but what car were you driving to get 100Km for €10 ?
    At todays prices that 7.57 ltrs to 100km.

    Assuming 5.4ltrs per 100Km (which isnt exceptional for a diesel) your looking at around €7.15

    Still more expensive that Electric but not over twice the price..

    Vaguely remembering my old car. Think I used to get about 600 miles (1000km) on a tank. Tank cost ~100quid, maybe a bit less, it's been a while. My driving was pretty uneconomical (short journeys up a hill).


  • #134
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    cluaindiuic wrote: »
    45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

    Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?
    Yes but it's too long.


  • #135
    jusmeig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭jusmeig


    This is great news altogether.
    The leaf drivers that have been farming the point in Sallin's train station will be devastated when they start charging for the 22kw ones.


  • #136
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,383 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Not enough, but better than nothing.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=493575&d=1571822878

    Anyone else feel it's inevitable they incorrectly charge someone (many many people) for overstaying?


  • #137
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    knipex wrote: »
    Not sure you are getting your figures from......
    1.4 TSI 120bhp Golf 8.56c/km
    1.6 TDI golf 115bhp 6.66c/km
    2.0TDI 150bhp 7.17c/km

    On the EV side.

    Nissan Leaf Techna
    7.45 c/km for non member
    6.52 c/km for a member paying

    We concur :).
    Kramer wrote: »
    I reckon:
    petrol car 15c/km 8 to 10c/km
    diesel car 10c/km 6c/km
    EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km 1.5c/km
    EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km 5 to 6c/km

    Anyway, diesel is now cheaper &, for that reason.................
    I'm out :D.


  • #138
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Kramer wrote: »
    Anyway, diesel is now cheaper &, for that reason.................
    I'm out :D.

    Dont forget that the figures you are using there is assuming that you do 100% of your EV fueling from rapids chargers..... "no one" does that!
    The vast majority have home charging at 8c/kWh.... and all the other EV incentives (tax, servicing, tolls etc)

    So, you can use it as a reason not to switch to EV if you like but you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

    Now, if you cant charge at home... stay with ICE.


  • #139
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    This is horrifying for apartment/city street dwellers without their own home charger *.

    This will simply make EV's a non option for them given the higher upfront costs. The government will need to make a massive effort to encourage the installation of chargers in apartment buildings and fair charging at those.

    * some apartments do have dedicated parking spaces, so a possibility with negotiations with management company.


  • #140
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Cheaper than filling the Rex, so it works for me.


  • #141
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    KCross wrote: »
    So, you can use it as a reason not to switch to EV if you like but you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

    You're right. Diesel isn't great.
    Petrol it is then.

    .........now......V8 or straight 6..............turbo or normally aspr......

    :D


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  • #142
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Kramer wrote: »
    That's almost 11l/100km :eek:

    A BMW 530e would average 7 max

    Where to start on this? :rolleyes:

    First of all, your maths are way off. At €1.40/l of petrol, 11l would cost you €15.40, so €15c per km

    €10c/km is the equivalent of 7l/100km. The average Irish petrol car on the road today probably actually uses more than that. Certainly not less.

    It's a rough guide, dude. A one figure fits all. About your average diesel / petrol car. Of course this won't be the same for all cars. Its not just about the latest and greatest plug in electric hybrid like the BMW 530e :rolleyes:

    None of the petrol cars I have ever owned were as good as 7l/100km. The petrol car I scrapped to buy my EV averaged about 14l/100km

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  • #143
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    KCross wrote: »
    you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

    Is that what happened him then?

    Shoots himself in foot (over EV!) linky


  • #144
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Kramer wrote: »
    You're right. Diesel isn't great.
    Petrol it is then.

    You own an EV, dont you?
    Are you saying you're going back to petrol now because of this? I think you're just stirring the pot a bit! ;)


    Charging for charging is needed because people cant resist free ****. Owning an EV, if it suits, is still massively cheaper than owning an ICE.


  • #145
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    unkel wrote: »
    First of all, your maths are way off.

    Nope, you're waaaay off with your figures there unkel.
    There are very few diesels under 10 years old which won't return 5 or 6c/km. I've driven probably dozens with many returning 5l/100km easily.
    There are very few petrols from the same period which would exceed 7 or 8l/100km. Most, I'd wager, would be far more frugal.

    BTW, I was referring to the 530e in pure petrol mode with no charging. That's a 1770Kg turbocharged petrol with 275 profile rear tyres. That will return 7l/100km easily on high speed motorway runs.

    Anyway, we disagree, no biggie.

    Charge at home - EV running cost is negligible.
    Blast up & down the motorway on long return trips - diesel is better.
    No possibility of charging at home - probably opt for a modern self-charging hybrid.

    Getting back on topic - 33c/kWh isn't a bad price to be fair.


  • #146
    knipex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    unkel wrote: »

    None of the petrol cars I have ever owned were as good as 7l/100km. The petrol car I scrapped to buy my EV averaged about 14l/100km

    And what cars were you driving the ?

    a 1.4 or 1.6 ??

    :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    You have a nasty habit of pulling "estimates" that while wildly off just happen to support your argument and HATE being pulled on it.

    The typical petrol car on irish roads uses nowhere near 11 ltrs \ km

    A typical modern petrol does not use 7ltrs per km

    You can :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: all you want but your figures are so far from reality as to be blatant nonsense and misinformation disguised as informed approximates.

    EV's are a good proposition in their own right, not for everyone but a solid transport option. They don't need massaged figures to justify ownership.

    Noone is going to use public rapid chargers for all their charging needs, and even if they are its no more expensive that Diesel.


  • #147
    fricatus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Lads, does anyone know if we can still use the RFID card on a PAYG subscription? I would only occasionally use fast chargers on longer trips, mainly charging at home/work, so there’s no sense in spending €5 a month membership fee. At the same time, I would prefer to use a card rather than an app. Will this be an option?


  • #148
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,395 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    fricatus wrote: »
    Lads, does anyone know if we can still use the RFID card on a PAYG subscription? I would only occasionally use fast chargers on longer trips, mainly charging at home/work, so there’s no sense in spending €5 a month membership fee. At the same time, I would prefer to use a card rather than an app. Will this be an option?

    I thought someone said earlier that you will be able to keep your current card. Tbh though I'd much rather they just stick a eft on the machines so we can use contactless cards or apple/google pay.


  • #149
    Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,227 ✭✭✭Kramer


    KCross wrote: »
    You own an EV, dont you?

    An Ioniq & a PHEV.
    Are you saying you're going back to petrol now because of this? I think you're just stirring the pot a bit! ;)

    Me? Stirring the pot?
    Mrs. Kramer would collapse if she ever saw me in the kitchen :).
    Charging for charging is needed because people cant resist free ****. Owning an EV, if it suits, is still massively cheaper than owning an ICE.

    I think the days of buying an EV, purely for savings, are coming to an end.
    ICE Kona (scrappage) - €20k
    Electric Kona - €38k

    Big proponent of electric but not an evangelist.


  • #150
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    unkel wrote: »
    €10c/km is the equivalent of 7l/100km. The average Irish petrol car on the road today probably actually uses more than that. Certainly not less.
    FWIW 7l/km is exactly what my Kia Sportage 1.6L diesel does, according to the trip computer. It's mostly used on motorways.

    Driven the same way the couple of EVs I've driven (Model S, Kona) have done around 22kWh/100km.

    So for me the numbers are:

    - EV: 2c/km (on night rate)
    - Diesel: 9c/km.

    So I broadly agree with your "diesel is four times the price" maths, since I would occasionally need to DC charge, and haven't done any EV testing in proper nasty conditions.


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  • #151
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,395 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Do the charges only apply for the Chademo/CCS connectors or is it for all three connectors?


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