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ESB eCars pricing introduction

  • 01-10-2019 11:10am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17,901 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    System Upgrade
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    Dear EV Drivers,


    To enable us to provide you with some enhanced functionality and a new app, we will be performing a system upgrade this coming Wednesday morning, October 2nd,



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Comments

  • Moderators Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    ELM327 wrote: »
    [/COLOR]

    Probably


  • Registered Users Posts: 637 ✭✭✭ spuddy


    Any news on the actual costs? There was a piece on RTE in August about an announcement "in the next month".


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    They are updating many of their chargers tomorrow, probably to enable pay features. They said they would give 3 weeks notice before introducing fees, presumably to get people to update their apps and set up payment information. There was talk of various costs, and pricing options. Talk is of price per kWh only with overstay fees after an hour or two. They might announce something if the updates on Wednesday are successful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭ Gile_na_gile


    Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min


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  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,020 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.
    McGiver wrote: »
    Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min

    Where are you guys seeing this info?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,901 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    zg3409 wrote: »
    They are updating many of their chargers tomorrow, probably to enable pay features. They said they would give 3 weeks notice before introducing fees, presumably to get people to update their apps and set up payment information. There was talk of various costs, and pricing options. Talk is of price per kWh only with overstay fees after an hour or two. They might announce something if the updates on Wednesday are successful.
    This is the worst possible option.
    Overstay should be 45 mins.
    Charge per minute + per kWh


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    The only people who think 20 mins is a reasonable time to use a charger are Gen 1.5 Leaf owners.
    With current crop of bigger battery cars and eCars slow rapid chargers (50kW), it's got to the point where I expect a car to be charging for around an hour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,901 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    The only people that will be using these will be leaf owners
    The vast majority of bigger battery cars will use Ionity and Tesla(where applicable) and easygo at a push
    I don't want to queue behind someone for 1 hour if I need to then charge for 1 hour after


  • Moderators Posts: 11,973 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    IMO, overstay should only kick in once the car has finished charging but is still connected. Tough to gauge though, as some cars have an automatic cable release when full, and once full the e cars card isn't needed to stop the session.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,833 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    liamog wrote: »
    With current crop of bigger battery cars and eCars slow rapid chargers (50kW), it's got to the point where I expect a car to be charging for around an hour.

    I agree the natural fast charging time for a lot of owners of newish EVs is around an hour because either their car is slow or the slow ESB charger limit of just 50kW

    Charging this long is unnecessary though to reach their destination or the next fast charger on their route. Thus they are unnecessarily holding up the charger for the next user. They should be disincentivised to use more than they need. I agree with ELM327 here, fairly hefty overstay charges should begin at about 30-45 minutes.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.
    McGiver wrote: »
    Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min

    Where are you guys seeing this info?

    The sterling prices are from ESB mainland UK chargers, the prices of which will have zero bearing on ROI and NI pricing.

    My reference to kWh energy charges comes from this document here:

    https://www.irishevowners.ie/esb-ecars-meeting-23-8-2019-full-report/

    Quoted here:
    The fees will be based on Energy used rather than on how much time you spend at a fast charger
     There will not be a connection charge.
     An over-stay fee will be implemented at fast charge points

    Fees are anticipated to go into effect three weeks after pricing has been announced, and users will be encouraged to register in advance.

    The "after an hour or two" was based on speaking to those at the meeting, the penalties are not intended to be immediately harsh, although I personally would like them to be harsh and on fast chargers I would like some time based fee to encourage people to give up at 80% as charging is slower from 80 to 100%.

    In terms of fees, they say cheaper than diesel or petrol, but also that 99% of charging will happen at home. As for actual prices, no-one knows, probably not esb.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    IMO, overstay should only kick in once the car has finished charging but is still connected. Tough to gauge though, as some cars have an automatic cable release when full, and once full the e cars card isn't needed to stop the session.

    The charger can tell the car is still connected, even if cable lock is open, same for chademo which unlocks when full. Typically the car decides on CCS with an option to keep it locked when full. If the space is blocked this can cause problems particular for cars with the charge port on the side as often they can only use one of the 2 spots provided.

    A per minute charge immediately when full would be great to concentrate the mind to return to vehicle on fast chargers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 samih


    I still don't see any point about price per kWh on rapids. On AC chargers yes but when you're queueing at a rapid you don't really want somebody to stay plugged in for an extra hour to get that last 20 percent in their battery when they should just vacate the charger and drive towards their destination and the next charger where they could then top up the same 20 percent in a fraction of time.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,013 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    ..so this is another speculation spin, why not just wait until we see the real pricing structure


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,833 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Well the ESB did ask us for our opinion on the charging structure, I sure hope we are getting what I voted for :)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭ jusmeig


    Can't wait for charges.
    Them parasites who farm the eCars point in Sallin's train station with their revolving leafs will be devastated (you know who you are)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    jusmeig wrote: »
    Can't wait for charges.
    Them parasites who farm the eCars point in Sallin's train station with their revolving leafs will be devastated (you know who you are)

    Fees are only coming in for fast chargers initially, then slow chargers probably 9 months later. Paying for parking is an issue for owners of parking space like Irish rail. This a slightly separate to fees to fill up car with power.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭ babybuilder


    Lol. Introduce charging on a crap network. When we haven't reached a critical mass or number of EVs. Anyone any idea on the extra charging points that are going to be installed apart from the ionity ones?


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭ Gile_na_gile


    Search for it. There is a thread on it, plus https://www.irishevowners.ie/ieova-meeting-with-esb-ecars-23-aug-2019/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭ Gile_na_gile


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Where are you guys seeing this info?


    On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,892 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Where are you guys seeing this info?


    On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.

    This app you refer to is for UK mainland chargers. The roi and ni app disappeared a while ago from play store.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 31,020 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Mickeroo


    On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.

    Didn't realise they had a new app out. What's it called? I can't see any on the play store at the mo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭ Silent Running


    Why aren't the ESB, along with other providers, being forced to make all their chargers accept contactless payment. All this bolloxogy about apps and fobs should be done away with. Even the UK has made this a requirement for new chargers.

    It should be a Europe wide requirement. Just pull up to any charger, swipe your credit/debit card or phone and charge away. No apps, accounts or RFID needed.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    I can imagine ESB aren't because their is a weird pressure from some Irish EV drivers for rapid charger use to billed on peoples domestic electricity bill.

    There's only really one EV pressure group, and not many people take part.
    I've noticed that all the new eCars eFacec Triple Head chargers have a blanked out space for a card terminal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭ babybuilder


    Pay for charging yes. Additional charge points?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The only people that will be using these will be leaf owners
    The vast majority of bigger battery cars will use Ionity and Tesla(where applicable) and easygo at a push
    I don't want to queue behind someone for 1 hour if I need to then charge for 1 hour after
    Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

    30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,901 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    McGiver wrote: »
    Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

    30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.


    You seem to be agreeing with my point? Why the No?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    McGiver wrote: »
    Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

    30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.

    It does sound like you are agreeing with Elm327 here, theres a few of us here that believe charging should be per min to encourage people to move when the charging rate starts to drop.

    If a Kona needs an extra 50kW to complete its journey, there's not really much difference between it charging for 60 mins at one eCars 50kW point, versus charging for 30 mins at two 50kW points.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ September1


    liamog wrote: »
    It does sound like you are agreeing with Elm327 here, theres a few of us here that believe charging should be per min to encourage people to move when the charging rate starts to drop.

    If a Kona needs an extra 50kW to complete its journey, there's not really much difference between it charging for 60 mins at one eCars 50kW point, versus charging for 30 mins at two 50kW points.


    It takes time to leave motorway, arrive at charger, plug the car or so - this effectively doubles this time. Meanwhile if they charge 60 mins at one location they can have a meal or do some shopping. There is no need to make live of EV travelers miserable.


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