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ESB eCars pricing introduction

ELM327

System Upgrade

Dear EV Drivers,

To enable us to provide you with some enhanced functionality and a new app, we will be performing a system upgrade this coming Wednesday morning, October 2nd,

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sk8board

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

petrol car 15c/km
diesel car 10c/km
EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km
EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km

As I’m looking at EVs, I’ve been tracking the cost/km of my 420d and it’s about 7.5-8c currently. Costs €75 at most for a full 55 litres, and it will do 1000 km avg, 900km at a canter and 1100 driving miss daisy.
I’d expect smaller diesels to be better still.
I think esbs claim of these prices being 29% less than a diesel fill are about right, but crucially you’d only be using these chargers a v small about.

The lack of overstay charge is a pity. As a regular train commuter, the same 2-3 EVs (ionic and 2 leafs) park in the charge spots by the entrance every single day for the past few years “charging”. It’s a nonsense.

Moreilly

I have a feeling a lot of non ev people will look at this and think "feck it, around a tenner to charge and that's bound to go up in price and i have to wait around a half an hour to charge it, think ill stick with my petrol/ diesel for my new car and the money saved in the purchase price will pay for the difference in running the car for a long time, and no inconvenience in looking for a charger or waiting for it to charge" and as a ev driver myself for for a couple of years, i can sort of see their logic, and they might not have the option of charging at home.
Personally i think the charges are needed, but they are too high and there should be a overstay charge also. We seem to be willing to pay well over the odds for things in this country generally and the market responds with giving us higher prices a lot of things , what is the real value of a unit of electricity, how much does it cost to run and grow the charging network and how much are we willing to pay above this?,(they have to make a profit, but how much?... just look at the insurance industry for example...!) after all a charger is no more than a shop that sells electricity really.

jasonb

Black_Knight wrote: »

So... Sign up to the free membership with reduced rates for the first 12 months. Get 29c per kWh rate.

I'm wondering if there's an option to cancel the membership after 12 months? I rarely use the Public Network, so the €5 a month rate means there's no reason for me to sign up for membership, it's not cost effective. However, a year's free membership with cheaper rates would save me a little money over the year, as long as I can cancel it afterwards...

DrPhilG

Not enough, but better than nothing.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

petrol car 15c/km

That's almost 11l/100km :eek:

A BMW 530e would average 7 max on mixed driving (petrol alone) & as per Bob Flavin, new Toyota hybrids average 4l/100km.

I reckon you're waaaay off on that.

Modern diesels can easily average 4.5l/100km.

An Ioniq (one of the most efficient EVs) would average 200km for 30kWh (charging loses) so 5c/km at 33c/kWh.

I reckon:
petrol car 15c/km 8 to 10c/km
diesel car 10c/km 6c/km
EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km 1.5c/km
EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km 5 to 6c/km

They're will be no financial incentive to those depending solely on public charging. Ionity are 40c/kWh (Maingau) & the €8 direct flat fee won't last forever.

Think EasyGo charge 35c or more too, excluding their free promos.

Yes, charging was badly needed but it's just removed a swathe of city/apartment dwellers from considering changing to an EV.

No doubt it'll push some locals to the SCPs now too as they're free!
(I've a few eyed up myself - will be a bit of a walk though but free leccy!!)

It's progress though & a welcome development

KCross

What are the price plan options?
There are two price plans: Pay As You Go (PAYG) or Membership, payable by most credit or debit cards.

PAYG is 33c/kWh with various options such as prepay, auto top up or pay via an anonymous one time credit/debit card payment.

Membership is recommended for people who use the network frequently. It is 29c/kWh with a €5 monthly subscription.

The membership route makes little sense even for regular users (a few times a month).

You pay €60 per year to save 4c/kWh.
That means you'd need to consume 1500kWh to break even... so 28kWh per week.

The membership route, imo, is for heavy users (multiple full charges per week)... not regular users. Targeting the apartment dwellers I suppose, but for everyone else it makes more sense to use PAYG.

Lumen

Kramer wrote: »

Yes, charging was badly needed but it's just removed a swathe of city/apartment dwellers from considering changing to an EV.

I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, there aren't enough batteries to go round so it makes sense from a global sustainability perspective for the first EVs to go to people who have to do massive distances for work. Also, city dwellers can use other forms of transportation e.g. bicycles, e-bikes, public transport.

On the other hand, air quality in cities would benefit from fewer urban diesels.

cluaindiuic

DrPhilG wrote: »

Not enough, but better than nothing.

45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

kanuseeme

cluaindiuic wrote: »

45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

It does not matter, just spread the word, after 45 minutes it will cost you 5 euro, it will stop a lot of idiots.

Hogging will migrate to the destination chargers.

knipex

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. I'll give you a rough guide so:

petrol car 15c/km
diesel car 10c/km
EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km
EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km

Not sure you are getting your figures from......

Assuming petrol and Diesel prices of €1.447 and €1.344 per ltr

Taking real world fuel economy from here

1.4 TSI 120bhp Golf will give you, real world, 5.92 ltrs per 100km or 8.56c/km

1.6 TDI golf 115bhp will give you, real world, 4.96 ltrs per 100km 6.66c/km

Even going bigger

2.0TDI 150bhp will give you real world 5.34 ltrs per 100km or 7.17c/km

On the EV side.

Taking real world range for a Nissan Leaf Techna from here

110 miles from 40kWh battery or 177km which works out .225kWh per kWh

On the announced pricing that works out as

7.45 c/km for non member
6.52 c/km for a member paying a €5 per month

unkel wrote: »

Not really. Still far cheaper than petrol / diesel.

.

No its not. Its roughly the same as diesel..

Silent Running

cluaindiuic wrote: »

45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

45 minutes in, the ecotricity chargers in the UK will auto disconnect you. If you connect at 20%, it won't get a 64kWh Niro to 80%. It depends on the rate of charge though. Some of their chargers are quite slow.

Ecotricity now charge £0.40 per kW.

Black_Knight

knipex wrote: »

Not to drag this off topic but what car were you driving to get 100Km for €10 ?
At todays prices that 7.57 ltrs to 100km.

Assuming 5.4ltrs per 100Km (which isnt exceptional for a diesel) your looking at around €7.15

Still more expensive that Electric but not over twice the price..

Vaguely remembering my old car. Think I used to get about 600 miles (1000km) on a tank. Tank cost ~100quid, maybe a bit less, it's been a while. My driving was pretty uneconomical (short journeys up a hill).

ELM327

cluaindiuic wrote: »

45mins from start or 45mins from completion?

Sure it'd take over an hour to charge a Kona/eNiro?

Yes but it's too long.

jusmeig

This is great news altogether.
The leaf drivers that have been farming the point in Sallin's train station will be devastated when they start charging for the 22kw ones.

Black_Knight

DrPhilG wrote: »

Not enough, but better than nothing.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=493575&d=1571822878

Anyone else feel it's inevitable they incorrectly charge someone (many many people) for overstaying?

Kramer

knipex wrote: »

Not sure you are getting your figures from......
1.4 TSI 120bhp Golf 8.56c/km
1.6 TDI golf 115bhp 6.66c/km
2.0TDI 150bhp 7.17c/km

On the EV side.

Nissan Leaf Techna
7.45 c/km for non member
6.52 c/km for a member paying

We concur

Kramer wrote: »

I reckon:
petrol car 15c/km 8 to 10c/km
diesel car 10c/km 6c/km
EV charged at home at night rate 1c/km 1.5c/km
EV charged on paid ESB chargers 4c/km 5 to 6c/km

Anyway, diesel is now cheaper &, for that reason.................
I'm out

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

Anyway, diesel is now cheaper &, for that reason.................
I'm out .

Dont forget that the figures you are using there is assuming that you do 100% of your EV fueling from rapids chargers..... "no one" does that!
The vast majority have home charging at 8c/kWh.... and all the other EV incentives (tax, servicing, tolls etc)

So, you can use it as a reason not to switch to EV if you like but you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

Now, if you cant charge at home... stay with ICE.

This is horrifying for apartment/city street dwellers without their own home charger *.

This will simply make EV's a non option for them given the higher upfront costs. The government will need to make a massive effort to encourage the installation of chargers in apartment buildings and fair charging at those.

* some apartments do have dedicated parking spaces, so a possibility with negotiations with management company.

jhegarty

Cheaper than filling the Rex, so it works for me.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

So, you can use it as a reason not to switch to EV if you like but you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

You're right. Diesel isn't great.
Petrol it is then.

.........now......V8 or straight 6..............turbo or normally aspr......

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

That's almost 11l/100km :eek:

A BMW 530e would average 7 max

Where to start on this? :rolleyes:

First of all, your maths are way off. At €1.40/l of petrol, 11l would cost you €15.40, so €15c per km

€10c/km is the equivalent of 7l/100km. The average Irish petrol car on the road today probably actually uses more than that. Certainly not less.

It's a rough guide, dude. A one figure fits all. About your average diesel / petrol car. Of course this won't be the same for all cars. Its not just about the latest and greatest plug in electric hybrid like the BMW 530e :rolleyes:

None of the petrol cars I have ever owned were as good as 7l/100km. The petrol car I scrapped to buy my EV averaged about 14l/100km

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

you are shooting yourself in the foot if thats the only reason that brought you to that conclusion.

Is that what happened him then?

Shoots himself in foot (over EV!) linky

KCross

Kramer wrote: »

You're right. Diesel isn't great.
Petrol it is then.

You own an EV, dont you?
Are you saying you're going back to petrol now because of this? I think you're just stirring the pot a bit!

Charging for charging is needed because people cant resist free ****. Owning an EV, if it suits, is still massively cheaper than owning an ICE.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

First of all, your maths are way off.

Nope, you're waaaay off with your figures there unkel.
There are very few diesels under 10 years old which won't return 5 or 6c/km. I've driven probably dozens with many returning 5l/100km easily.
There are very few petrols from the same period which would exceed 7 or 8l/100km. Most, I'd wager, would be far more frugal.

BTW, I was referring to the 530e in pure petrol mode with no charging. That's a 1770Kg turbocharged petrol with 275 profile rear tyres. That will return 7l/100km easily on high speed motorway runs.

Anyway, we disagree, no biggie.

Charge at home - EV running cost is negligible.
Blast up & down the motorway on long return trips - diesel is better.
No possibility of charging at home - probably opt for a modern self-charging hybrid.

Getting back on topic - 33c/kWh isn't a bad price to be fair.

knipex

unkel wrote: »

None of the petrol cars I have ever owned were as good as 7l/100km. The petrol car I scrapped to buy my EV averaged about 14l/100km

And what cars were you driving the ?

a 1.4 or 1.6 ??

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You have a nasty habit of pulling "estimates" that while wildly off just happen to support your argument and HATE being pulled on it.

The typical petrol car on irish roads uses nowhere near 11 ltrs \ km

A typical modern petrol does not use 7ltrs per km

You can :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: all you want but your figures are so far from reality as to be blatant nonsense and misinformation disguised as informed approximates.

EV's are a good proposition in their own right, not for everyone but a solid transport option. They don't need massaged figures to justify ownership.

Noone is going to use public rapid chargers for all their charging needs, and even if they are its no more expensive that Diesel.

fricatus

Lads, does anyone know if we can still use the RFID card on a PAYG subscription? I would only occasionally use fast chargers on longer trips, mainly charging at home/work, so there’s no sense in spending €5 a month membership fee. At the same time, I would prefer to use a card rather than an app. Will this be an option?

Mickeroo

fricatus wrote: »

Lads, does anyone know if we can still use the RFID card on a PAYG subscription? I would only occasionally use fast chargers on longer trips, mainly charging at home/work, so there’s no sense in spending €5 a month membership fee. At the same time, I would prefer to use a card rather than an app. Will this be an option?

I thought someone said earlier that you will be able to keep your current card. Tbh though I'd much rather they just stick a eft on the machines so we can use contactless cards or apple/google pay.

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

You own an EV, dont you?

An Ioniq & a PHEV.

Are you saying you're going back to petrol now because of this? I think you're just stirring the pot a bit!

Me? Stirring the pot?
Mrs. Kramer would collapse if she ever saw me in the kitchen

Charging for charging is needed because people cant resist free ****. Owning an EV, if it suits, is still massively cheaper than owning an ICE.

I think the days of buying an EV, purely for savings, are coming to an end.
ICE Kona (scrappage) - €20k
Electric Kona - €38k

Big proponent of electric but not an evangelist.

Lumen

unkel wrote: »

€10c/km is the equivalent of 7l/100km. The average Irish petrol car on the road today probably actually uses more than that. Certainly not less.

FWIW 7l/km is exactly what my Kia Sportage 1.6L diesel does, according to the trip computer. It's mostly used on motorways.

Driven the same way the couple of EVs I've driven (Model S, Kona) have done around 22kWh/100km.

So for me the numbers are:

- EV: 2c/km (on night rate)
- Diesel: 9c/km.

So I broadly agree with your "diesel is four times the price" maths, since I would occasionally need to DC charge, and haven't done any EV testing in proper nasty conditions.

Mickeroo

Do the charges only apply for the Chademo/CCS connectors or is it for all three connectors?