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Tiered Championship

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    #92
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Horan confident of second tier championship's prospects

    http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299724?fbclid=IwAR1Kc4cU97SMSt2hEBmL8NOjgxs1RemEkC7DL6mh7af-LbroC4AOk4npJgA

    He's completely out of touch with the majority of counties
    easy when he is involved with a Dublin club

    Louth is a very urban county, population wise
    What strategy have the GAA funded to improve the GAA in both the large towns there?
    Same with the large towns in Westmeath, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow
    answer? sweet feck all


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    #93
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Horan confident of second tier championship's prospects

    http://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299724?fbclid=IwAR1Kc4cU97SMSt2hEBmL8NOjgxs1RemEkC7DL6mh7af-LbroC4AOk4npJgA

    There's an appetite for it amongst the 'bigger' counties. Let's not forget that the GAA is all about money these days, it's run as a business. That's the angle they're taking on this. They see the 14,000 who showed up for a double header including Dublin, they see the dwindling attendances. That's why the super 8's were introduced and that's why this is their next step. We have to stop them, everybody should be against this, even the 'bigger' counties. Let's tackle the real problem.


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    #94
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    wellpastit wrote: »
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Yechampionship? Did you see the super 8's last year? Roscommon and Kildare got some batterings. Do you want to make it a 5 or 6 team breakaway?


    Dont think Kildare took some batterings last year. Lost by 2 pts to Monaghan,lost by 3 after losing D flynn to a red when they were very much in the game maybe even on to. Had Kerry by the town halls at half time without d Flynn suspended and a stupid red card changed the whole game.
    I can see the point you are trying to make but that example is simply incorrect

    They lost to Kerry by 12 was it? That's a battering. I was including that and Roscommons.


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    #95
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    You don't have to boot teams out to change the structure of the championship. Teams who are not deemed worthy of sharing a pitch with the big dogs will struggle big time. For some there will be no way back. It will end their chances of competing at the top permanently. What we have here are people looking for a short term fix. It might excite you for a few years but what it will effectively do is create a mirror of the hurling championship. It will be a disaster.

    For those people against a tiered championship are you against the senior, intermediate, junior structure in your own county? Have intermediate clubs disappeared, never to be seen again? Have intermediate and junior clubs no interest in playing at level 2 or 3? Does every player in the county have a right to play for the senior county title? Certainly Sean Cavanagh seemed enthusiastic enough about his intermediate titles


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    #96
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    harpsman wrote: »
    For those people against a tiered championship are you against the senior, intermediate, junior structure in your own county? Have intermediate clubs disappeared, never to be seen again? Have intermediate and junior clubs no interest in playing at level 2 or 3? Does every player in the county have a right to play for the senior county title? Certainly Sean Cavanagh seemed enthusiastic enough about his intermediate titles

    You're comparing apples and oranges. The inter county game is one where everyone has competed at the top level and where the huge majority have had some form of success. If we go back to the 90's and 00's, the amount of counties challenging for honours was huge. We had a vibrant competition. That's what we should be aiming for. Let's look at what's changed since then and tackle that problem.


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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Let me ask you, how much of the Westmeath v Kerry Joe McDonagh cup game did you see on the Sunday Game last night?

    Thats not a problem with the Joe McDonagh cup itself, more a problem with the TV rights and how they are structured.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    harpsman wrote: »
    For those people against a tiered championship are you against the senior, intermediate, junior structure in your own county? Have intermediate clubs disappeared, never to be seen again? Have intermediate and junior clubs no interest in playing at level 2 or 3? Does every player in the county have a right to play for the senior county title? Certainly Sean Cavanagh seemed enthusiastic enough about his intermediate titles

    Yep. Westport won the club football Intermediate AI in 2017. I was in Croker for it. The celebrations were fantastic.

    Richie Power's reaction to winning the hurling equivalent that year: "outweighs anything that I’ve ever done before", despite him having 9 senior inter-county AI's with Kilkenny. Players WILL buy into tiered competitions if they are structured and marketed properly.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0218/853689-richie-power/


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    #99
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thats not a problem with the Joe McDonagh cup itself, more a problem with the TV rights and how they are structured.

    The other tiers in hurling were promised what you said would be promised for the football counties demoted, we can see from the hurling what the reality will be.


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    #100
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yep. Westport won the club football Intermediate AI in 2017. I was in Croker for it. The celebrations were fantastic.

    Richie Power's reaction to winning the hurling equivalent that year: "outweighs anything that I’ve ever done before", despite him having 9 senior inter-county AI's with Kilkenny. Players WILL buy into tiered competitions if they are structured and marketed properly.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0218/853689-richie-power/

    Another Mayo poster advocating the tiered championship. It's mostly coming from the so called stronger counties. They want to remove the 'weaker' counties out of their way so they can get their big days out in Croke Park without any hassle. After the weekend you're thinking if only Roscommon were removed from the championship.
    That's the reality of it, why are supporters and officials from these counties being so vocal? What's in it for them? They don't care about the health of Gaelic Football in the 'weaker' counties. They're out for themselves and that's why those not apart of the 'elite' need to stand together and put a stop to this.


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    #101
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yep. Westport won the club football Intermediate AI in 2017. I was in Croker for it. The celebrations were fantastic.

    Richie Power's reaction to winning the hurling equivalent that year: "outweighs anything that I’ve ever done before", despite him having 9 senior inter-county AI's with Kilkenny. Players WILL buy into tiered competitions if they are structured and marketed properly.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0218/853689-richie-power/

    And by the way, the B championship was tried already. They also tried the Tommy Murphy Cup. Players DIDN'T buy into that and they won't this time either.


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    #102
    Donald Trumped
    Closed Accounts Posts: 184 ✭✭Donald Trumped


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    He's completely out of touch with the majority of counties
    easy when he is involved with a Dublin club

    Louth is a very urban county, population wise
    What strategy have the GAA funded to improve the GAA in both the large towns there?
    Same with the large towns in Westmeath, Laois, Kildare, Wicklow
    answer? sweet feck all

    Horan also announced that a fellow Dub, Eddie Sullivan would be leading the new GAA fixtures review committee. Personally I don't know about Sullivan, he may be capable, but imo why didn't they give this gig to someone from outside Dublin, where the problem about gaa fixtures is equally as bad or if not worse outside the pale?

    Agreed with everything that you said nice_guy80. Horan is completely the wrong guy for the job to promote a "tier 2" championship. Out of touch he must certainly is and his attitude about the "Newbridge or nowhere" fiasco is proof of a man that doesn't get what the meaning of the grassroots of the GAA actually is.

    I also agree about that the GAA hierarchy has done sfa about promoting GAA in those counties that you mention. Not just the urban areas you say but in rural clubs in particular, where they feel let down by a Dublin orientated executive that are not listening to their genuine concerns about the future of their club and over the funding or the lack of in their counties.

    The GAA is dying in many counties with emigration in rural Ireland, with the ongoing issue of clubs struggling to field teams a huge problem. This should be a massive priority for the GAA. Maybe if Horan was more occupied with this major issue, rather that promoting a "tiered championship" that will be counter-productive in so many ways, then the GAA top brass can gain some respect.

    I have zero confidence in Horan and co in delivering real and substantial change in relation to the many challenges facing rural clubs in particular and putting more resources into other counties outside Dublin. These are huge issues and until they address this imbalance, then its the GAA grassroots that suffers, with many feeling discontent over the way the organization is being run from the top. Without the grassroots, the GAA will die at the expense of other sports.


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    #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    There's an appetite for it amongst the 'bigger' counties. Let's not forget that the GAA is all about money these days, it's run as a business. That's the angle they're taking on this. They see the 14,000 who showed up for a double header including Dublin, they see the dwindling attendances. That's why the super 8's were introduced and that's why this is their next step. We have to stop them, everybody should be against this, even the 'bigger' counties. Let's tackle the real problem.

    I should hope that it is for the sake of the survival of the GAA going forward. How do you honestly expect it to be different in the 21st century?


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    #104
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    And by the way, the B championship was tried already. They also tried the Tommy Murphy Cup. Players DIDN'T buy into that and they won't this time either.

    In both the above they were secondary competitions that teams entered once they were eliminated from the main competition.

    That is not a good system
    Once knocked out of the main competition teams find it very difficult to get motivated to play in the secondary competition

    If a multi tiered system is to work then the teams start and finish that season in the same competition.


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    #105
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    In both the above they were secondary competitions that teams entered once they were eliminated from the main competition.

    That is not a good system
    Once knocked out of the main competition teams find it very difficult to get motivated to play in the secondary competition

    If a multi tiered system is to work then the teams start and finish that season in the same competition.

    Exactly, it needs to be a goal to something bigger that's prepared for long-term by counties, not a consolation.

    The weak counties don't deserve a God-given place at the top table and the second tier will show which of them are actually bothered about getting there deservedly.



    _


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    #106
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I should hope that it is for the sake of the survival of the GAA going forward. How do you honestly expect it to be different in the 21st century?

    How about you start answering some questions?


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    #107
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    In both the above they were secondary competitions that teams entered once they were eliminated from the main competition.

    That is not a good system
    Once knocked out of the main competition teams find it very difficult to get motivated to play in the secondary competition

    If a multi tiered system is to work then the teams start and finish that season in the same competition.

    The majority of players and supporters from these counties don't want that. It's supporters from Mayo, Kerry, Dublin etc who want these other counties to be demoted.


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    How about you start answering some questions?

    Think its your proposals that needing clarifying in fairness. How much money is needed, timescale, what to do if it isnt working etc? If you think the GAA “being run like a business” is a justified overall negative criticism in the 21st century, then Gaelic games will be in trouble when viewed against competing sports on this island and further afield.


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    #109
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Think its your proposals that needing clarifying in fairness. How much money is needed, timescale, what to do if it isnt working etc? If you think the GAA “being run like a business” is a justified overall negative criticism in the 21st century, then Gaelic games will be in trouble when viewed against competing sports on this island and further afield.

    What proposals? You're the one pushing the tiered championship because Mayo got knocked out by Roscommon. It's time those advocating this monstrosity got called out. What are their motives?
    And money is vital to the GAA but the strength of our games in all counties should be the priority, that's not what's happening.


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    What proposals? You're the one pushing the tiered championship because Mayo got knocked out by Roscommon. It's time those advocating this monstrosity got called out. What are their motives?
    And money is vital to the GAA but the strength of our games in all counties should be the priority, that's not what's happening.

    If you read back through the thread I was proposing the same before Mayo v Roscommon. So you appear to be against a tiered structure for the GAA’s knock-out competitions (whatever about the leagues)? How would you organise the hurling and club tournaments as a matter of interest?


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    #111
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you read back through the thread I was proposing the same before Mayo v Roscommon. So you appear to be against a tiered structure for the GAA’s knock-out competitions (whatever about the leagues)? How would you organise the hurling and club tournaments as a matter of interest?

    So you wanted Roscommon removed before you played them and especially now afterwards. Is it because of your awful record in Connacht recently that you want an easier route to Croke Park?


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    #112
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    What proposals? You're the one pushing the tiered championship because Mayo got knocked out by Roscommon. It's time those advocating this monstrosity got called out. What are their motives?
    And money is vital to the GAA but the strength of our games in all counties should be the priority, that's not what's happening.

    I'm pretty sure Mayo did not get knocked out by Roscommon.
    They lost to Roscommon but are still in the All Ireland championship thanks to the qualifiers system.

    I'd also wager that Roscommon would be in the same tier as Mayo in the tiered championship based on their recent championship form.


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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    So you wanted Roscommon removed before you played them and especially now afterwards. Is it because of your awful record in Connacht recently that you want an easier route to Croke Park?

    I may be a Mayo supporter but I’m not weaving a fantastic conspiracy in promoting a tiered structure in order to keep them at the top table as your rampant paranoia in this thread appears to suggest. If they aren’t good enough, down they go to a level they can survive at and then build to go up again based on their own merits.


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    #114
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Mayo did not get knocked out by Roscommon.
    They lost to Roscommon but are still in the All Ireland championship thanks to the qualifiers system.

    I'd also wager that Roscommon would be in the same tier as Mayo in the tiered championship based on their recent championship form.

    Brolly was trying to get rid of them last year. Maybe it's the qualifiers you want to get rid of then? Sick of having to travel around the country, you want an easy path to Croke Park?


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    #115
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I may be a Mayo supporter but I’m not weaving a fantastic conspiracy in promoting a tiered structure in order to keep them at the top table as your rampant paranoia in this thread appears to suggest. If they aren’t good enough, down they go to a level they can survive at and then build to go up again based on their own merits.

    Well what difference does it make to you then? There's big beatings in the current set up, there was big beatings in the super 8's and there would be big beatings in this breakaway group you support.


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    #116
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    I quite like this layout and calendar. Plus the naming is right as it's what has worked for decades at club level.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0524/1051431-future-of-football-blueprint-for-a-3-tier-championship/

    I don't mind the concept but I hate the calendar

    Now way should you be playing the All Ireland final in mid July.
    It was bad enough having the quarter final on St Swithen's Day in 2018.

    Play the inter county championship throughout the summer when people are around and kids are off school.
    The summer is only getting started in mid July.

    Let counties that are no longer in the championship get on with their club championships, no need for them to be waiting for September to finish theirs


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    #117
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Brolly was trying to get rid of them last year. Maybe it's the qualifiers you want to get rid of then? Sick of having to travel around the country, you want an easy path to Croke Park?

    I'd argue that the qualifiers have served Mayo well this past few seasons

    And compared to the provincial system the qualifiers have allowed the likes of Westmeath, Fermanagh, Sligo, Wexford, Tipp, Limerick and Clare play some big games in the latter stages of the championship that they would not have had otherwise.

    But your posts are not contributing anything to the debate

    Your stock response when challenged is "so you want to get rid of <insert team/system/etc here>"

    What is your problem with a revised system ?

    Is it because some teams that realistically never had a chance to winning the All Ireland Senior Football Championship will technically not have a chance of winning it until they reach the "top tier" ?

    Or is it because teams that to this point never get anything other than cursory media coverage will continue to only get cursory media coverage ?

    I'm not sure a tiered system will work, but I'm willing to try it because anything would be better than the currently system where geography and one thousand year old boundaries determine the ease or otherwise of advancing to a championship title.


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    #118
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I'd argue that the qualifiers have served Mayo well this past few seasons

    And compared to the provincial system the qualifiers have allowed the likes of Westmeath, Fermanagh, Sligo, Wexford, Tipp, Limerick and Clare play some big games in the latter stages of the championship that they would not have had otherwise.

    But your posts are not contributing anything to the debate

    Your stock response when challenged is "so you want to get rid of <insert team/system/etc here>"

    What is your problem with a revised system ?

    Is it because some teams that realistically never had a chance to winning the All Ireland Senior Football Championship will technically not have a chance of winning it until they reach the "top tier" ?

    Or is it because teams that to this point never get anything other than cursory media coverage will continue to only get cursory media coverage ?

    I'm not sure a tiered system will work, but I'm willing to try it because anything would be better than the currently system where geography and one thousand year old boundaries determine the ease or otherwise of advancing to a championship title.

    My issue is that it is ignoring the real issue! This tiered championshop is just nonsense. You'll have your new top tier but Dublin will still win it every year and start getting more and more dominant. What then? Keep shrinking the top tier until you're left with teams that can stay within 10 points of them?

    The real issue facing the GAA is the financial situation we have and the inequality of it. Everyone knows about the money Dublin have got but there's also the money Mayo and Kerry are spending. That's not sustainable and it's the wrong path the GAA has gone down. That's what has caused this split. Look at the strength of the provincial championships prior to 2005, then compare it to now.


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    #119
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Louth have won 3 All Ireland's. Hurling has a limited number of teams that compete in the real championship, this is not a good thing. Why do you want the same for football?
    People have to keep in mind that this will be a permanent split. There will be no recovery from this. The teams clamering to be separated from the rest will push further and further ahead.
    It would be absolutely disastrous for Gaelic football in the counties booted out but also for those wanting to boot them out. It's short term thinking. You have visions of non stop top class games, full houses to watch Kerry v Dublin every year.
    The novelty will wear off, the crowds will dwindle. Something has to be done to up the standards of football in counties not at the top. Give them a plan and finance to implement it. This is the way forward, demoting them is not.
    Louths 3 all ireland wins were 1910, 1912 and 1957 which was their last final appearance and they havent won Leinster since then and been in so few finals as well. Hurling has tiered championships and teams can find their level and win a national title at the appropriate level and not the ****fest that is football where huge number of counties virtually every year play 2, maybe 3 games if get lucky draw, in their main competition of the year
    If you have properly tiered competitions where teams have relative chance of success and they get promoted you then have better competition all round
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Two of those were in 1910 & 1912, the last in 1957. Louth will not win an AI again in the current setup. Promotion in any tiered proposal gives counties a chance to aim for the top tier and relegation will ensure less chance of dead rubber games happening. All finals to be in Croke Pk on AI weekend as well to give them meaning for the players.
    exactly. win win for everyone involved.
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Yes, so it's possible. Dublin had won 1 All Ireland in nearly 30 years, now look at them. How did they improve? Now do the same to the rest.
    You think there will be no more one sided games in this breakaway championship? Did you see the super 8's last year? Roscommon and Kildare got some batterings. Do you want to make it a 5 or 6 team breakaway?
    Meaning for the players? Promising to play on All Ireland weekends? That's been heard before. Let me ask you, how much of the Westmeath v Kerry Joe McDonagh cup game did you see on the Sunday Game last night?
    How much help did Dublin get that other counties wont ever get? If you have some form of tiered competition smaller/weaker counties get to improve and play their own level and go up to higher level and play better sides in their own time
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    You're comparing apples and oranges. The inter county game is one where everyone has competed at the top level and where the huge majority have had some form of success. If we go back to the 90's and 00's, the amount of counties challenging for honours was huge. We had a vibrant competition. That's what we should be aiming for. Let's look at what's changed since then and tackle that problem.
    Huge majority had some form of success when though?
    5 Leinster counties have won the provincial championship in this century and apart from Offaly in 97 you are going back to the 50s
    Connacht has 7 teams(including NY/London) and only Roscommon/Galway/Mayo have really won the title. Munster is Kerrys and Cork. Ulster is only real competitive province.
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Another Mayo poster advocating the tiered championship. It's mostly coming from the so called stronger counties. They want to remove the 'weaker' counties out of their way so they can get their big days out in Croke Park without any hassle. After the weekend you're thinking if only Roscommon were removed from the championship.
    That's the reality of it, why are supporters and officials from these counties being so vocal? What's in it for them? They don't care about the health of Gaelic Football in the 'weaker' counties. They're out for themselves and that's why those not apart of the 'elite' need to stand together and put a stop to this.
    Its far more than Mayo fans. Changes are from more than fans of stronger counties. Changes to a tiered competition aid everyone.
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    And by the way, the B championship was tried already. They also tried the Tommy Murphy Cup. Players DIDN'T buy into that and they won't this time either.
    If you have a proper system and not the mess that that was then they will buy into it over time
    Farawayhome wrote: »
    My issue is that it is ignoring the real issue! This tiered championshop is just nonsense. You'll have your new top tier but Dublin will still win it every year and start getting more and more dominant. What then? Keep shrinking the top tier until you're left with teams that can stay within 10 points of them?

    The real issue facing the GAA is the financial situation we have and the inequality of it. Everyone knows about the money Dublin have got but there's also the money Mayo and Kerry are spending. That's not sustainable and it's the wrong path the GAA has gone down. That's what has caused this split. Look at the strength of the provincial championships prior to 2005, then compare it to now.
    Dublin may win the top title many years but its far better situation for the smaller/weaker counties who have a realistic chance of competing in something rather than the odd qualifier run that is all they can realistically look forward to in the currnt set up


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    #120
    conor05
    Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭conor05


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Two of those were in 1910 & 1912, the last in 1957. Louth will not win an AI again in the current setup. Promotion in any tiered proposal gives counties a chance to aim for the top tier and relegation will ensure less chance of dead rubber games happening. All finals to be in Croke Pk on AI weekend as well to give them meaning for the players.

    Yes, so it's possible. Dublin had won 1 All Ireland in nearly 30 years, now look at them. How did they improve? Now do the same to the rest.
    You think there will be no more one sided games in this breakaway championship? Did you see the super 8's last year? Roscommon and Kildare got some batterings. Do you want to make it a 5 or 6 team breakaway?
    Meaning for the players? Promising to play on All Ireland weekends? That's been heard before. Let me ask you, how much of the Westmeath v Kerry Joe McDonagh cup game did you see on the Sunday Game last night?

    TG4 showed a fair bit of highlights on Kerry v Westmeath tonight ag 8pm.

    Atleast it’s a start because the Joe McDonagh is a very good standard of hurling.


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    #121
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Louths 3 all ireland wins were 1910, 1912 and 1957 which was their last final appearance and they havent won Leinster since then and been in so few finals as well. Hurling has tiered championships and teams can find their level and win a national title at the appropriate level and not the ****fest that is football where huge number of counties virtually every year play 2, maybe 3 games if get lucky draw, in their main competition of the year
    If you have properly tiered competitions where teams have relative chance of success and they get promoted you then have better competition all round
    exactly. win win for everyone involved.

    How much help did Dublin get that other counties wont ever get? If you have some form of tiered competition smaller/weaker counties get to improve and play their own level and go up to higher level and play better sides in their own time

    Huge majority had some form of success when though?
    5 Leinster counties have won the provincial championship in this century and apart from Offaly in 97 you are going back to the 50s
    Connacht has 7 teams(including NY/London) and only Roscommon/Galway/Mayo have really won the title. Munster is Kerrys and Cork. Ulster is only real competitive province.

    Its far more than Mayo fans. Changes are from more than fans of stronger counties. Changes to a tiered competition aid everyone.

    If you have a proper system and not the mess that that was then they will buy into it over time

    Dublin may win the top title many years but its far better situation for the smaller/weaker counties who have a realistic chance of competing in something rather than the odd qualifier run that is all they can realistically look forward to in the currnt set up

    You're talking about division 4 teams for the most part there. As I said, Dublin won one All Ireland in nearly 30 years, now look. How did that happen?

    Why can't other counties get the help that Dublin got? That's not how it works, you play at a level long enough and then that is your level. Look at Offaly in hurling.

    Offaly, Kildare, Meath(Louth have one of theirs), Westmeath, Laois and Dublin were winning Leinster championships in the 90's and 00's. It was an exciting and open competition. New York and London can't be included so Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo and even Leitrim have won Connacht titles in the 90's and 00's. In Ulster, Donegal, Derry, Down, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Cavan have all won Ulsters in the 90's and 00's. Fermanagh have got to an All Ireland semi final and making great strides. We've already discussed the improvements made in Clare and Tipperary despite Clare in 92 been the last to win Munster apart from Cork and Kerry. So that's 21 counties who have won provincial championships from the 90's till now. Louth should have won one, Fermanagh and Limerick went very close and others like Tipperary are putting in huge effort. That's all very recent history.

    No, a tiered championship would kill Gaelic Football in many counties. Player drop outs are already bad, this will increase it ten fold. Players don't want this. It's in no way beneficial to 'weaker' counties.

    Let's sort this out and get to the root of the problem. Things have changed big time over the last decade that has left us in this situation and the major player in that change is money. Counties like Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone and especially Dublin have pushed ahead with the aid of huge resources. This is the issue that should be tackled. Other counties shouldn't be punished for these counties buying their way ahead.


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