The glorious 12th

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:23pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody wants to put up Irish signage to threaten or intimidate Unionists. There is even a clause in the proposals that will allow unionists who feel threaten by a street or townland being called by it's Irish name to object and not have it put up.

https://cnag.ie/images/Acht_Gaeilge_%C3%B3_Thuaidh/15M%C3%812017_Pl%C3%A9ch%C3%A1ip%C3%A9is_ar_Acht_Gaeilge_%C3%B3_Thuaidh.pdf

Unionists wish to display their flag where it isn't wanted and have indulged in much much violence attempting to get that right, as well as parading where they are not wanted.

There is no comparison here

The main Irish language group here said they would demand them on the shankill road whether people want them or not.

We regards to not putting them where people don’t want them. Maybe you’d tell my council cause they are getting them defaced weekly in unionist areas

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 7:27pm

downcow wrote: »

The main Irish language group here said they would demand them on the shankill road whether people want them or not.

Link downcow, link. Anecdote isn't enough. And that Irish group if they exist would have to SHOW there was a demand. I take the numbers on the Shankill would not back them up.

We regards to not putting them where people don’t want them. Maybe you’d tell my council cause they are getting them defaced weekly in unionist areas

They are all over Fermanagh and I haven't seen one defaced yet.

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:28pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Meh....just saying those who support soldier f are supporting murderers (how you think this is up for debate,is beyond me)

It’s not that people are defending the actions of soldier f. It is that they/we are defending his right to be treated like everyone else.
Unionists are looking at some of the most evil killers as MLAs etc with royal pardons yet one soldier is being followed because he cooperated with a £100m+ investigation. Where is the justice for the Protestant farmer murdered on the border by the ira or the catholic murder by the shankill butchers in Belfast.
And you know the vast majority of the banners you are talking about don’t mention soldier f as people don’t want to antagonise

Cryptopagan · 15-07-2019 7:29pm

downcow wrote: »

It’s not that people are defending the actions of soldier f. It is that they/we are defending his right to be treated like everyone else.
Unionists are looking at some of the most evil killers as MLAs etc with royal pardons yet one soldier is being followed because he cooperated with a £100m+ investigation. Where is the justice for the Protestant farmer murdered on the border by the ira or the catholic murder by the shankill butchers in Belfast.
And you know the vast majority of the banners you are talking about don’t mention soldier f as people don’t want to antagonise

Who got a royal pardon?

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Link downcow, link. Anecdote isn't enough. And that Irish group if they exist would have to SHOW there was a demand. I take the numbers on the Shankill would not back them up.
.

There you go now. There’s a link on bbc as well if you google it. And Doug Beattie is the most moderate in UUP so it’s not happening https://uup.org/news/5386/Conradh-na-Gaeilge-comments-on-BBC-indicate-exactly-what-is-meant-by-an-Irish-Language-Act-Beattie#.XSzGKiXTXYU

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:33pm

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Who got a royal pardon?

I think you know. I assume they cannot be named on here

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:35pm

downcow wrote: »

I think you know. I assume they cannot be named on here

It’s ok I see one of them had openly admitted it
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/24/former-old-bailey-bomber-gerry-kelly-admits-receiving-royal-pardon

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:37pm

And then there is the letters of comfort. Over 200 issued. Every single one to Republicans. So any wonder soldier f is getting some support

endainoz · 15-07-2019 7:39pm

downcow wrote:

And then there is the letters of comfort. Over 200 issued. Every single one to Republicans. So any wonder soldier f is getting some support

Was this not a condition of the GFA? Genuine question, also did no loyalist in prison ever get a pardon?

Stop moaning ffs · 15-07-2019 7:39pm

How can anyone be threatened by someone else’s language? It’s their heritage leave them to it. You aren’t being forced to learn it.
Trying to eradicate it really isn’t a good look and will lose you the moderate votes.
It’s 2019 ffs not the 1900s

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 7:42pm

downcow wrote: »

There you go now. There’s a link on bbc as well if you google it. And Doug Beattie is the most moderate in UUP so it’s not happening https://uup.org/news/5386/Conradh-na-Gaeilge-comments-on-BBC-indicate-exactly-what-is-meant-by-an-Irish-Language-Act-Beattie#.XSzGKiXTXYU

Were does that say:

The main Irish language group here said they would demand them on the shankill road whether people want them or not.

Just because a Unionist politician for his own political purposes is saying that does not make it true.

Read the position paper to confirm that it isn't what is being looked for.

J Mysterio · 15-07-2019 7:47pm

downcow wrote: »

So you completely avoided addressing equivalents. And I may differ but will have respect for you if you are consistent.
How Dow you feel about the incredibly crass, antagonistic, insensitive and insulting hunger strike banners. Are they any different than the soldier f ones.?
How do you feel about all the Irish language stuff going up on street corners etc?

This doesnt make sense?

Soldier F murdered innocent people. Unionists supporting him is surely morally wrong. How can that be denied?

Whereas the Hunger Strikers died protesting the UKs poor treatment of them in an effective apartheid state. Murals honour that selflessness.

These are completely different things?

RobMc59 · 15-07-2019 7:47pm

downcow wrote: »

There you go now. There’s a link on bbc as well if you google it. And Doug Beattie is the most moderate in UUP so it’s not happening https://uup.org/news/5386/Conradh-na-Gaeilge-comments-on-BBC-indicate-exactly-what-is-meant-by-an-Irish-Language-Act-Beattie#.XSzGKiXTXYU

That`s shocking and probably ranks alongside the Irish translator jobs in the EU headquarters for lunacy.

lawred2 · 15-07-2019 7:51pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

That`s shocking and probably ranks alongside the Irish translator jobs in the EU headquarters for lunacy.

Top sneering Rob. Nothing beats a sneer when you've not much else to offer.

However I'll ask what has that got to with Northern Ireland?

downcow · 15-07-2019 7:52pm

endainoz wrote: »

Was this not a condition of the GFA? Genuine question, also did no loyalist in prison ever get a pardon?

Loyalists got zero. It was a secret deal no one new about except British gov and shinners. Incredible isn’t it. And these people are accusing others of not upholding the agreement

Stop moaning ffs · 15-07-2019 7:54pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

That`s shocking and probably ranks alongside the Irish translator jobs in the EU headquarters for lunacy.

Irish is the official language of Ireland.
Ireland is in the EU.
There are 25 other countries with English as a second language.
Allowed for the UKs benefit ironically.

They all have Translators.

You guys really come across as either willfully ignorant or just poorly educated a lot of the time.

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 7:55pm

downcow wrote: »

Loyalists got zero.

How do you know when the SOS doesn't?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/365-royal-pardons-in-n-ireland-30238720.html

J Mysterio · 15-07-2019 7:55pm

downcow wrote: »

Loyalists got zero. It was a secret deal no one new about except British gov and shinners. Incredible isn’t it. And these people are accusing others of not upholding the agreement

Jailed Loyalists and Republicans were freed from prison today, as the final wave of prisoner releases got underway in Northern Ireland. 78 prisoners were freed from the Maze prison. First out were 8 members of the UVF, followed by a group of the UDA/UFF men the LVF and the INLA. 46 members of the Provisional IRA were the last due to be freed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0728/8126-prisoners/

RobMc59 · 15-07-2019 7:57pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Top sneering Rob. Nothing beats a sneer when you've not much else to offer.

However I'll ask what has that got to with Northern Ireland?

Until brexit(if there is one!) Britain(which includes NI) pays into the EU-imo Irish translators is a waste of money,as are Irish language signs in an area that does`nt want them.

lawred2 · 15-07-2019 8:01pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Until brexit(if there is one!) Britain(which includes NI) pays into the EU-imo Irish translators is a waste of money,as are Irish language signs in an area that does`nt want them.

Anything else you don't like about people that aren't the same as you?

Sunny Disposition · 15-07-2019 8:01pm

downcow wrote: »

And then there is the letters of comfort. Over 200 issued. Every single one to Republicans. So any wonder soldier f is getting some support

Yeah, I’m amazed by it tbh. Innocent people were murdered by someone, could at least wait until after the trial before offering support.
Can totally understand anger over the letters, but don’t see how those mean anyone else should get away with murder! It’s saying soldiers should not have been required to behave any better than the IRA. It’s saying the army are no better than the IRA or the UVF.

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 8:12pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Anything else you don't like about people that aren't the same as you?

English visitor decides what Irish people should find important...didn't they try to tell the rest of the EU what they should see as important (namely, their relationship with it over all others) too and get told were to go?

janfebmar · 15-07-2019 8:18pm

downcow wrote: »

And then there is the letters of comfort. Over 200 issued. Every single one to Republicans. So any wonder soldier f is getting some support

Good point.

lawred2 · 15-07-2019 8:23pm

talking to yourself again?

Stop moaning ffs · 15-07-2019 8:26pm

Now that you mention it .....

We only Have one token unionist? Not two ?

lawred2 · 15-07-2019 8:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

English visitor decides what Irish people should find important...didn't they try to tell the rest of the EU what they should see as important (namely, their relationship with it over all others) too and get told were to go?

old habits die hard Francie

hard to shake off centuries of telling others what's good for them...

firemansam4 · 15-07-2019 8:35pm

I would say a lot of the anger towards the support soldier f gets is due to the whole hypocrisy of those who support the soldier.

Its like the IRA have been vilified and called out as bloody murderers by much of the unionist population but would label the British Army including those involved in Bloody Sunday as hero's and keepers of the peace, ignoring some of the atrocities they have been involved in because it does not suit their political views.
(not saying I disagree with labeling IRA members murderers BTW)

janfebmar · 15-07-2019 8:39pm

downcow wrote: »

thats very honest and helpful.
I know there is many in the OO and unionist community who agree with you and would like to see the Twelfth only being held in very predominately protestant towns. I get their thinking but i completely disagree. I live on the outskirts of a town which was 40% protestant and now is less than 5% protestant as they all moved in fear during the troubles. It is also 'our town' to the significant number of protestants living in the rural community and has an OO hall and two protestant churches and school. I think it is very sad that our culture is not allowed to be expressed in our town one day every 15 years which is all that we ask - but it is not allowed. Down the road is Kilkeel which has a very predominantly protestant town centre and yet it has a number of nationalist parades each year including and Dissident IRA aligned band. This to me is much healthier.
My main demonstration this year was Crossgar that you mention although i didnt go. And yes there is an agreement in the towns around me that flags come down quickly. In my nearest mixed town when the twelfth is being held the flags go up in the early hours of the twelfth morning and come down late afternoon immediate after the parade, yet last year i still heard catholics complaining about why they had to go up at all (this is not replicated for the easter rising parade when the flags are up for weeks).

So i don't disgree with you but the flags is a thorny issue. You probably view a union flag flying as marking territory and showing who thinks they are in charge. I understand that. But most of my community see Irish road signs in exactly the same light, as marking territory and showing who thinks they are in charge. I would love there was more genuine respect for each others culture, identity and celebrations - but it is going to be a very long road

Edit i just reread you post and see the isrealie stuff etc, and i know this is whataboutery, but in my town the irish tricolour and Palestinian flag flies 365 days a year and there is an illegal monument on council owned land to republican mass killers who have murdered members of our community. Its just all very complex and some on here would like to paint it as those nasty prods (i do not include you in that - i appreciated your post)

Great post. It seems that one side is behaving much more reasonably than the other side.

Imreoir2 · 15-07-2019 8:41pm

downcow wrote: »

There you go now. There’s a link on bbc as well if you google it. And Doug Beattie is the most moderate in UUP so it’s not happening https://uup.org/news/5386/Conradh-na-Gaeilge-comments-on-BBC-indicate-exactly-what-is-meant-by-an-Irish-Language-Act-Beattie#.XSzGKiXTXYU

You expect us to take a UUP MLA's word on what Conradh na Gaeilge's position is? Really?

armaghlad · 15-07-2019 8:46pm

downcow wrote: »

So you completely avoided addressing equivalents. And I may differ but will have respect for you if you are consistent.
How Dow you feel about the incredibly crass, antagonistic, insensitive and insulting hunger strike banners. Are they any different than the soldier f ones.?
How do you feel about all the Irish language stuff going up on street corners etc?

You aren’t really stating equivalents though. Hunger striker banners obviously don’t bother me, to the best of my knowledge none of them deliberately shot and killed any civilians; that said if one went up overnight in my town centre I’d want it removed because I know it will cause a lot of offence to many other people. As for the Irish language, my local council up until very recently has shown it nothing but utter contempt and has refused to fulfil its statutory duties in that regard. So I don’t actually see any Irish on street corners.

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 8:49pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

You expect us to take a UUP MLA's word on what Conradh na Gaeilge's position is? Really?

It wasn't even a link to the claim he was asked to back up either.

Imreoir2 · 15-07-2019 8:56pm

downcow wrote: »

How do you feel about all the Irish language stuff going up on street corners etc?

You mean that one sign that an old woman put up outside her own house? The one where the council is trying to take her to court? I feel disgusted by the whole thing.

RobMc59 · 15-07-2019 9:14pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

English visitor decides what Irish people should find important...didn't they try to tell the rest of the EU what they should see as important (namely, their relationship with it over all others) too and get told were to go?

That`s ridiculous francie,everyone knows yours is the only opinion that counts and as you pointed out,I`m just an English visitor and should know my place..

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 9:18pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

That`s ridiculous francie,everyone knows yours is the only opinion that counts and as you pointed out,I`m just an English visitor and should know my place..

Well, if you cannot understand the importance if the language to a nation and call efforts to maintain it silly, then yeh, you are a visitor Rob.

janfebmar · 15-07-2019 9:24pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, if you cannot understand the importance if the language to a nation and call efforts to maintain it silly,.

It's a dead language, nobody speaks it, nobody uses it to any extent in any thread on boards.ie or social media, there are virtually no Irish language newspapers or magazines...all this despite the hundreds of millions the Irish government has squandered on it over the years. A much bigger waste than the new children's hospital being built.

FrancieBrady · 15-07-2019 9:31pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It's a dead language,

Says the most noted anti-Irish everything on Boards.

We have a new Gaelscoil here, must fill you terrible dread altogether.

Odhinn · 15-07-2019 9:36pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think it`s you`d be in for a rude awakening in regards to what British people think of the unionists in NI-there are many people in Scotland and England who feel a close affinity with them-they are British,they stood shoulder to shoulder in times of trouble and they have every right to fly the Union flag.

The days of waving the butchers apron in nationalist faces has gone since the Good Friday agreement

Imreoir2 · 15-07-2019 9:50pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It's a dead language, nobody speaks it, nobody uses it to any extent in any thread on boards.ie or social media, there are virtually no Irish language newspapers or magazines...all this despite the hundreds of millions the Irish government has squandered on it over the years. A much bigger waste than the new children's hospital being built.

I speak it, as does my wife. We speak it every day at home and at work. When we have kids, they will be raised through Irish. It is not used regularly on boards becuase doing so gets you banned. It is used on social media, that YOU don't come accross it is just a funciton of the echo chamber nature of social media in general. My social media is mostly as Gaeilge. The main Irish language newspaper is online only, Tuairisc.ie as is the main magazine Nos.ie. My language is not dead, go raibh maith agat.

WesternZulu · 15-07-2019 9:53pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It's a dead language, nobody speaks it, nobody uses it to any extent in any thread on boards.ie or social media, there are virtually no Irish language newspapers or magazines...all this despite the hundreds of millions the Irish government has squandered on it over the years. A much bigger waste than the new children's hospital being built.

At least it is a language unlike that made-up farce they call Ulster Scots.

citytillidie · 15-07-2019 10:16pm

downcow wrote: »

I appreciate your input. But help me here. You don’t want support shown for soldier f who is currently innocent. Would you call for the removal of the illegal shrine to people found guilty of sectarian killings in my town? Or the stuff on the main road near me eulogising the hunger strike terrorists?
And are you saying Irish language signage is ok but union flags are not?

and at that all is lost enough evidence for 2 murders he is far from innocent

Stop moaning ffs · 15-07-2019 10:18pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It's a dead language, nobody speaks it, nobody uses it to any extent in any thread on boards.ie or social media, there are virtually no Irish language newspapers or magazines...all this despite the hundreds of millions the Irish government has squandered on it over the years. A much bigger waste than the new children's hospital being built.

It’s used every day. Nationally.
I tried to use I in a thread responding to one of your(or was it downcow?) nebulous misguided factually bereft posts and you reported me and I got a ban.

Look up the policy for Irish on boards. You’ll be delighted.

dudara · 15-07-2019 10:44pm

We ask posters to post in English, so that a post is understandable to all.

Not everyone speaks Irish to the same level of comprehension, and it’s unfair to post solely in Irish in the “mainstream” forums. The same principle would apply if a poster were to post solely in Spanish, German or another language. A limited amount of Irish, in the sense of a seanfhocal or cúpla focal is fine, but don’t make it hard on people to understand your posts.

If Irish speakers want to discuss through Irish, we ask that they do in the Gaeilge or Teach na nGaelt forums, where they will find posters with the same goal.

Let me state that I grew up in a Gaeltacht, went to primary and secondary in Irish,I still regularly listen to RnaG and TnaG (can’t break those habits!) and I am a supporter of Irish. But I understand why we ask people to limit it in forums like AH.

Imreoir2 · 15-07-2019 10:48pm

dudara wrote: »

We ask posters to post in English, so that a post is understandable to all.

Not everyone speaks Irish to the same level of comprehension, and it’s unfair to post solely in Irish in the “mainstream” forums. The same principle would apply if a poster were to post solely in Spanish, German or another language. A limited amount of Irish, in the sense of a seanfhocal or cúpla focal is fine, but don’t make it hard on people to understand your posts.

If Irish speakers want to discuss through Irish, we ask that they do in the Gaeilge or Teach na nGaelt forums, where they will find posters with the same goal.

Let me state that I grew up in a Gaeltacht, went to primary and secondary in Irish,I still regularly listen to RnaG and TnaG (can’t break those habits!) and I am a supporter of Irish. But I understand why we ask people to limit it in forums like AH.

Personally I disagree that communication in Irish should be restricted to facilitate communication in English, I think it is a terrible idea, but I don't make the rules.

Stop moaning ffs · 15-07-2019 11:12pm

dudara wrote: »

We ask posters to post in English, so that a post is understandable to all.

Not everyone speaks Irish to the same level of comprehension, and it’s unfair to post solely in Irish in the “mainstream” forums. The same principle would apply if a poster were to post solely in Spanish, German or another language. A limited amount of Irish, in the sense of a seanfhocal or cúpla focal is fine, but don’t make it hard on people to understand your posts.

If Irish speakers want to discuss through Irish, we ask that they do in the Gaeilge or Teach na nGaelt forums, where they will find posters with the same goal.

Let me state that I grew up in a Gaeltacht, went to primary and secondary in Irish,I still regularly listen to RnaG and TnaG (can’t break those habits!) and I am a supporter of Irish. But I understand why we ask people to limit it in forums like AH.

I wasn’t aware of the rule I was in a post just trying to let the poorly informed and unaware poster that people use it every day. Just because they are unaware doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
The account in question would have reported anyways.

Junkyard Tom · 15-07-2019 11:19pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Don’t get the banners up supporting Soldier F, in advance of a trial. If he’s guilty he’s at least as bad as an IRA man. How can the Unionists not see that?

They can see that - that's their point. Soldier F banners may as well read 'we're delighted Soldier F murdered a bunch of you taigs, **** you'.

downcow · 15-07-2019 11:24pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0728/8126-prisoners/

This was across the board. It has nothing to do with the secret deals with republican. Loyalists got zero letters of comfort republicans got them all

Imreoir2 · 15-07-2019 11:26pm

downcow wrote: »

This was across the board. It has nothing to do with the secret deals with republican. Loyalists got zero letters of comfort republicans got them all

Why would Loyalists need a letter of comfort when all they needed to do was ask their mates in the RUC?

J Mysterio · 15-07-2019 11:26pm

downcow wrote: »

This was across the board. It has nothing to do with the secret deals with republican. Loyalists got zero letters of comfort republicans got them all

The 'Republicans' were sent 'letters of comfort' to say Her Majesty's Government would not seek to prosecute. This was done to 'seal the deal' as it were. The lads on 'the other side' weren't quite as bothered at the time.

Further, this article may be of interest.

downcow · 15-07-2019 11:28pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

I would say a lot of the anger towards the support soldier f gets is due to the whole hypocrisy of those who support the soldier.

Its like the IRA have been vilified and called out as bloody murderers by much of the unionist population but would label the British Army including those involved in Bloody Sunday as hero's and keepers of the peace, ignoring some of the atrocities they have been involved in because it does not suit their political views.
(not saying I disagree with labeling IRA members murderers BTW)

Quite simply treat them all the same and I’ll not have a problem. While Gerry etc have letters of comfort so as they can’t be charged then I’ll support the soldiers to get them as well. I like equality

J Mysterio · 15-07-2019 11:30pm

downcow wrote: »

Quite simply treat them all the same and I’ll not have a problem. While Gerry etc have letters of comfort so as they can’t be charged then I’ll support the soldiers to get them as well. I like equality

See above.

The glorious 12th

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