The glorious 12th

Cienciano

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If that is in anyway a common or general experience of Belfast it is remarkable that it has a tourist business at all. We will weekend in Belfast and go there many times in the year for many many years, even during the conflict/war, and I have never been asked 'What are you doing here fella?'.

You are remarkable to have experienced the 'cliched' Belfast on your first trip. Well done fella!

I was in Belfast a few years ago and literally the first guy we met in a pub gave us shít about "the troubles" and for being from the south. We were also with a girl from Limavady and he kept asking here where it was. He was from Belfast, so he obviously knew, but turns out he wanted to find out if she'd say "Derry" or "Londonderry" so he could start shít. That was in Laverys pub.

No problem with the rest of the night there, but trying to pretend that everyone there is a nice lad who doesn't care about where you're from/political views/sectarianism is ridiculous.

RobMc59

El Weirdo wrote: »

Just BBC NI. The rest of the regions probably don't even know it's going on (with the possible exception of BBC Scotland).

There's an Orange lodge here in Liverpool,they're marching today in Southport.

El Weirdo

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's an Orange lodge here in Liverpool,they're marching today in Southport.

Are BBC North West covering it?

FrancieBrady

Cienciano wrote: »

I was in Belfast a few years ago and literally the first guy we met in a pub gave us shít about "the troubles" and for being from the south. We were also with a girl from Limavady and he kept asking here where it was. He was from Belfast, so he obviously knew, but turns out he wanted to find out if she'd say "Derry" or "Londonderry" so he could start shít. That was in Laverys pub.

No problem with the rest of the night there, but trying to pretend that everyone there is a nice lad who doesn't care about where you're from/political views/sectarianism is ridiculous.

I didnt try to 'pretend' anything. You can meet a ****head in any pub in any city in the world.

alchemist33

citytillidie wrote: »

Yep but don’t broadcast live on St Patrick’s day

Tbf I've been to Paddy's Day parades in Belfast and Derry and they were tiny.

Cienciano

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didnt try to 'pretend' anything. You can meet a ****head in any pub in any city in the world.

Of course, that's why it was ridiculous for you to cast doubt on the previous posters story.

RobMc59

El Weirdo wrote: »

Are BBC North West covering it?

No,it won't be shown live -will be briefly mentioned on the news.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

timthumbni wrote: »

Yes, every single year. It’s a huge event in the unionist community so rightly so.

It’s a supremacist parade that would be banned if it targeted any other ethnic group.

FrancieBrady

Cienciano wrote: »

Of course, that's why it was ridiculous for you to cast doubt on the previous posters story.

All I said was that it was remarkable that somebody had come across so many of the 'cliched' aspects of Belfast on a first trip, in comparison to my experience going back over what must be 40 years or more.

It is remarkable is it not? For instance, how many tourists would get a 'dirty look' for saying they were going to the Shankill, when everyone in Belfast would know that the tours take you to both the Shankill and the Falls? Are Shinners in denial that the Shankill exists/has a history?

El Weirdo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All I said was that it was remarkable that somebody had come across so many of the 'cliched' aspects of Belfast on a first trip, in comparison to my experience going back over what must be 40 years or more.

It is remarkable is it not? For instance, how many tourists would get a 'dirty look' for saying they were going to the Shankill, when everyone in Belfast would know that the tours take you to both the Shankill and the Falls? Are Shinners in denial that the Shankill exists/has a history?

Exactly. We went to the Bobby Sands mural and SF shop on the Falls and actually met Bik McFarlane who asked us where we'd been on our trip. He certainly had no issues with us saying where we went or what we planned to do.

Same as when we spent a night out in the PD in Andersonstown - everyone we spoke to was giving us tips on what to do and where to see, including tours of loyalist areas.

ILoveYourVibes

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s a supremacist parade that would be banned if it targeted any other ethnic group.

It would be probably banned as it is now if it were held in London.

Can you imagine if WE had a similar parade burning the union jack in Dublin?

FrancieBrady

El Weirdo wrote: »

Exactly. We went to the Bobby Sands mural and SF shop on the Falls and actually met Bik McFarlane who asked us where we'd been on our trip. He certainly had no issues with us saying where we went or what we planned to do.

Same as when we spent a night out in the PD in Andersonstown - everyone we spoke to was giving us tips on what to do and where to see, including tours of loyalist areas.

I am sure there will be a concerted effort to double down on the cliches as we approach a Border Poll.

'Themuns up there' and all that.

DrPhilG

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the Unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

cgcsb

DrPhilG wrote: »

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

They've basically re-defined the province in their own minds into the area that they believe they can control. This mindset is notional really, and doesn't stand up to any logic, but is strangely given official status e.g. the 'Ulster Unionist Part', a strange concept given that if Donegal were in NI, unionism would have failed to secure a stormont majority many years ago and NI would be gone by now.

There are other official examples; the 'RUC' (now renamed) and BBC radio Ulster (I think that's still around despite the logic fail).

gooch2k9

DrPhilG wrote: »

I realise that there are a few Unionist viewpoints here so I have a genuine question.

What is with the Unionist obsession with Ulster? "Ulster says NO", "For God and Ulster" etc etc?

Is there some Unionist claim to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, or do they legitimately not realise that a third of Ulster is in the Republic?

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

No, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were specifically excluded when NI was formed. Those counties skewed the demographics too much against Protestantism. I believe the entire province was to become NI but Carson ruled against those three.

Omackeral

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you took the tour of the 'conflict' zones what exactly were you expecting? :rolleyes:

Some of the pubs in Belfast are among the best in the country. I could visit a few in Dublin and make the same 'The pubs were sh*tholes' generalisation too.

Good lord, your post is a classic. Too funny.

Found Belfast amazing when I visited last January. People were lovely and there was a sense that a lot of the bad times were in the past. I think if you go upmin and around July and go visiting the Shankill etc, obviously things are going to be more on edge.

The Titanic quarter itself is worth a trip up. The shopping was great and the food we had was brilliant too. Found service staff couldn't do enough for me and I'm a working class Dub.

Maybe I just had a good demeanour on me when meeting people or else I got lucky and Maki didn't.

Having said all that, I wouldn't go there in July.

FrancieBrady

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

No, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were specifically excluded when NI was formed. Those counties skewed the demographics too much against Protestantism. I believe the entire province was to become NI but Carson ruled against those three.

Correct. The hideousness of partition. A gerrymandered/created ethnic majority. We know what that led to.
In fairness the British did make a feeble attempt to avoid what they knew was going to happen by imposing a voting system to prevent bigoted, suprematist governance, but Unionists just changed the system and started their ill fated oppression and discrimination. Even Ian Paisley in his later years admitted what they had done.

Poor_old_gill

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

Gimme A Pound

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

One word explains it - idiocy.

FrancieBrady

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

I can explain 2.

The UJ= obvious
The Israeli flag = because themuns see an affinity with Palestinians.

The Nazi one = ****ed if I know.

DrPhilG

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's what they're taught, at least in Unionist areas. Northern Ireland is Ulster to them.

I just quizzed my other half (Derry girl) on this.

Sure enough even though she was a "Haffa" (half a jaffa), she went to a mixed primary school and a Protestant secondary school and they were taught that Ulster was the 6 counties.

I just find it nuts that in adulthood, and talking about educated men involved in politics at the highest level, nobody pointed this out to them.

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Carson ruled against those three.

Carson had a pussy cat, it sat upon the fender. And when you pulled the pussy's tail it shouted NO SURRENDER.

My wife's uncle was a devout Unionist and used to teach the kids that when they were wee, just to annoy their Catholic da. Lol

McLoughlin

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

Its Flegs not Flags as for Israel flag this might help

NIMAN

This YouTube clip will explain everything you need to know about flegs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

ciarang85

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why they fly Union Jack, Nazi flag and Israel flag?
The first I can understand but I dont get the other 2 and as a whole - the combo of flags seems ludicrous.

KKKulture.... they love a good fleg up there

Poor_old_gill

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can explain 2.

The UJ= obvious
The Israeli flag = because themuns see an affinity with Palestinians.

The Nazi one = ****ed if I know.

Surely they notice the irony of the Nazi & Israel flags side by side?

Poor_old_gill

NIMAN wrote: »

This YouTube clip will explain everything you need to know about flegs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8JqKxrloQQ

It doesnt- I dont get the Nazi one and thats the most confusing.

Wasn't a big part of the building of an Ulster identity the fighting of the German's in 2 World Wars?

I just cant understand the Nazi one

Gimme A Pound

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It doesnt- I dont get the Nazi one and thats the most confusing.

Wasn't a big part of the building of an Ulster identity the fighting of the German's in 2 World Wars?

I just cant understand the Nazi one

Cognitive dissonance. They're anti immigration - and apparently the only way this can be expressed is with a swastika... even if alongside an Israel flag.

Also, idiocy.

Fr D Maugire

Went to an Ulster rugby game few years ago. Two lads behind us chatting away, general chit chat, one was clearly home from America on holidays so was little out of touch with the Ulster team. Tommy Bowe came up in the coversation, and the US based guy asked where Bowe was from. The other answered Monaghan. "Ah not a real Ulster man then" was the response. I just laughed that even though this guy was living overseas, the old tribalisms were still there.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I just quizzed my other half (Derry girl) on this.

Sure enough even though she was a "Haffa" (half a jaffa), she went to a mixed primary school and a Protestant secondary school and they were taught that Ulster was the 6 counties.

I just find it nuts that in adulthood, and talking about educated men involved in politics at the highest level, nobody pointed this out to them.



Carson had a pussy cat, it sat upon the fender. And when you pulled the pussy's tail it shouted NO SURRENDER.

My wife's uncle was a devout Unionist and used to teach the kids that when they were wee, just to annoy their Catholic da. Lol

FrancieBrady

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Surely they notice the irony of the Nazi & Israel flags side by side?

I'll pass on that. Ask me an easy one!

Scarlet42

Here is a good one for you .. Marching to commemorate the Battle of The Somme a few years ago

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/nazi-swastika-tattooed-man-takes-part-in-belfast-somme-commemoration-parade-34816123.html