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The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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    #7202
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    And I’m constantly having to correct the misinformation you provide

    Quite the dance we have going on it seems

    Hollystown and Spawell are not going to be centres of excellence?


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    #7203
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Hollystown and Spawell are not going to be centres of excellence?

    Dublin don’t have a fraction of the pitches available to other counties?

    Land in dublin doesn’t cost a multiple of land in other counties?


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    #7204
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    dobman88 wrote: »
    Enquiring, if you got your wish of a Dublin split into 4. What crusade would you embark on after a few years of all Dublin semi finals and Dublin domination? Because with the quality and numbers they have, that's a distinct possibility.

    Splitting Dublin and every county receiving appropriate funding and putting effective structures in place is the aim. With that, standards will rise across the country. The 4 new counties will also receive funding to promote Gaelic Games. They will replace an over funded and unnaturally placed county. If the 4 counties go on to dominate football and hurling then fair play to them. It will be done in a fair manner.

    I've said it before, Dublin being successful is not the issue.


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    #7205
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Eh? It's about having fair competitions. Splitting Dublin and funding other counties will go a long way to achieving this. People have questioned whether Dublin fans would buy into it but your post is a clear sign that some definitely will.

    I didn't mention Dublin fans. I just said that the likelihood is that a few Dublin teams would dominate the championship which is what those who want to split Dublin want to avoid.


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    #7206
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Dublin don’t have a fraction of the pitches available to other counties?

    Land in dublin doesn’t cost a multiple of land in other counties?

    So the centres of excellence are news to you as well.

    The defence of the funding disparity is all over the place. Firstly it was said that the funding was just for primary school kids but they say that they deserve the funding because they have a population of 1.3 million and use that stat to try to justify it. Is it for kids or not?

    Then they say it didn't have an effect on elite levels but on the other hand, the defenders say that the funding being spread to a few other counties will increase standards at elite level there.

    They say they have problems with getting access to pitches for clubs but their county board are spending multi millions on grounds for centres of excellence.

    They ask why hasn't it developed hurling but Dublin have won 14 titles in inter county and club hurling post funding, they won 1 in the 20 years before that.

    They say the Dublin footballers home pitch is Parnell Park but they've only played 1 championship game there in decades.

    I could go on but the defence of the funding disparity really is a shambles. Resorting to abuse, lies and deflection seems to be the only play left as we see in the media and on social media.


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    #7207
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Rosita wrote: »
    I didn't mention Dublin fans. I just said that the likelihood is that a few Dublin teams would dominate the championship which is what those who want to split Dublin want to avoid.

    How can they dominate without a buy in from their communities? Obviously, with local players lining out at inter county level, their families and friends will go to support them. As has been noted, local derbies will attract interest and it will take off.

    Again, if it was any other county who'd been drawn up and funded their own plan to the tune of millions, the same calls would be made. We just can't let a county continue with an annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties, can you think of any reasons why it should be allowed to continue? How can we have fair competitions with that level of resources available to one team?


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    #7208
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    How can they dominate without a buy in from their communities? Obviously, with local players lining out at inter county level, their families and friends will go to support them. As has been noted, local derbies will attract interest and it will take off.

    Again, if it was any other county who'd been drawn up and funded their own plan to the tune of millions, the same calls would be made. We just can't let a county continue with an annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most other counties, can you think of any reasons why it should be allowed to continue? How can we have fair competitions with that level of resources available to one team?

    But it’s just fine for a county to have an income 4 to 5 million greater than most other counties for example? That’s presumably does allow fair competition? What counties had 6 million less income than dublins in 2019 for example. What was their gap to the other big counties income?


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    #7209
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    But it’s just fine for a county to have an income 4 to 5 million greater than most other counties for example? That’s presumably does allow fair competition? What counties had 6 million less income than dublins in 2019 for example. What was their gap to the other big counties income?

    It's not fine for any county to have 4 or 5 or 6 million more in income every year than anyone else. How can we have fair competitions if that's allowed to continue? Your whataboutery fails once again. These things are so easy when the aim is fair play. You're finding it impossible to answer questions while trying to defend the indefensible.


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    #7210
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    The split will never happen. No matter how much whinging snd botching on an Internet forum is done. Long may the dominance continue. It’s an absolute pleasure to witness the greatest football team ever to grace a GAA field show us all how the game should be played and in such a humble manner. A credit to their families snd clubs, one and all.


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    #7211
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭ooter


    Is it for kids or not?
    Seen these figures posted on another forum, somebody might be able to confirm/deny them?
    If they're wrong fair enough.

    2016 population 5-14 year olds,
    National 675k
    Dublin 168k

    2017 GDA grant,
    National €5.6 m
    Dublin €1.3 m.


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    #7212
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    It's not fine for any county to have 4 or 5 or 6 million more in income every year than anyone else. How can we have fair competitions if that's allowed to continue? Your whataboutery fails once again. These things are so easy when the aim is fair play. You're finding it impossible to answer questions while trying to defend the indefensible.

    Nah, what you’re actually seeing here is I’m finding it impossible to ignore the fairly hypocrisy attitude of a group that says dublin are a problem but blatantly ignores others who are in a similar position and who in many cases have enjoyed that position for far longer than the dublin projects existed.

    I also find it difficult to accept the bona fides of people who only had a damascene conversion on inequality in the GAA when a a particular team started winning (or very often, when their own team stopped being among the top dogs)


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    #7213
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    The split will never happen. No matter how much whinging snd botching on an Internet forum is done. Long may the dominance continue. It’s an absolute pleasure to witness the greatest football team ever to grace a GAA field show us all how the game should be played and in such a humble manner. A credit to their families snd clubs, one and all.

    To be fair, they’ve changed the way the game is played (I’d argue for the better though that’s a different debate). They probably benefit from a void where Kerry and Tyrone dropped off but by god have they made the most of it. People from outside dublin can try to diminish his role but I think gavin was the perfect manager at the perfect time for dublin


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    #7214
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Nah, what you’re actually seeing here is I’m finding it impossible to ignore the fairly hypocrisy attitude of a group that says dublin are a problem but blatantly ignores others who are in a similar position and who in many cases have enjoyed that position for far longer than the dublin projects existed.

    I also find it difficult to accept the bona fides of people who only had a damascene conversion on inequality in the GAA when a a particular team started winning (or very often, when their own team stopped being among the top dogs)

    So you accept that we can't have fair competitions with one county having an annual income of 4, 5 or 6 million more than everyone else?


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    #7215
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    So you accept that we can't have fair competitions with one county having an annual income of 4, 5 or 6 million more than everyone else?

    Did you read something in invisible ink in my post? I wasn’t aware I’d made a comment either way

    Can we have a fair competition when several counties have income thats several million greater than the rest? If the resources have essentially always been heavily imbalanced have we ever had fair competition?


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    #7216
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Splitting Dublin and every county receiving appropriate funding and putting effective structures in place is the aim. With that, standards will rise across the country. The 4 new counties will also receive funding to promote Gaelic Games. They will replace an over funded and unnaturally placed county. If the 4 counties go on to dominate football and hurling then fair play to them. It will be done in a fair manner.

    I've said it before, Dublin being successful is not the issue.

    I dunno m8. I'd have zero interest in watching an all Dublin all Ireland final tbh and thats exactly what will happen if they're split, which thankfully will never happen.

    I think you're gone so far off the cliff now you dont know what you want. Not being ok with 1 Dublin in a generally competitive all Ireland series but being ok with 2,3 or 4 which will definitely dominate the entire competition makes no sense to me


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    #7217
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Enquiring wrote: »
    How can they dominate without a buy in from their communities? Obviously, with local players lining out at inter county level, their families and friends will go to support them. As has been noted, local derbies will attract interest and it will take off.

    /QUOTE]

    I'd never mentioned their communities. That's a different point. I've made the point that right now you would have four Dublin teams in the Super 8 and other counties would actually become relatively uncompetitive instead of more. I would be surprised if that's what the 'split Dublin' people want but it's what they'll get.


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    #7218
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Did you read something in invisible ink in my post? I wasn’t aware I’d made a comment either way

    It's a rhetorical question because of course, we can't have fair competitions if one county has that level of resources above everyone else. To claim otherwise would be ludicrous. The 2 decades of over funding and the near 100 titles across the board are enough on their own but the annual income figures are the final nail in the coffin to the defenders of the funding disparity.


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    #7219
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    dobman88 wrote: »
    I dunno m8. I'd have zero interest in watching an all Dublin all Ireland final tbh and thats exactly what will happen if they're split, which thankfully will never happen.

    I think you're gone so far off the cliff now you dont know what you want. Not being ok with 1 Dublin in a generally competitive all Ireland series but being ok with 2,3 or 4 which will definitely dominate the entire competition makes no sense to me
    Rosita wrote: »
    I'd never mentioned their communities. That's a different point. I've made the point that right now you would have four Dublin teams in the Super 8 and other counties would actually become relatively uncompetitive instead of more. I would be surprised if that's what the 'split Dublin' people want but it's what they'll get.

    Things have changed big time here. The line was that Dublin's dominance would come to an end, it all ends eventually. But now the 4 new counties will definitely dominate now and into the future!


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    #7220
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Things have changed big time here. The line was that Dublin's dominance would come to an end, it all ends eventually. But now the 4 new counties will definitely dominate now and into the future!

    No, nothing has changed for me.

    I was always of the opinion that 4 counties would dominate. That hasnt changed. Keep them restricted to 15 instead of 60 and things will level out as all things that are cyclical do.

    Is an all Dublin final and semi finals better in your ideal world of 4 counties? Or is it better to have 1 Dublin team with more semi final spots up for grabs for other teams?


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    #7221
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    It's a rhetorical question because of course, we can't have fair competitions if one county has that level of resources above everyone else. To claim otherwise would be ludicrous. The 2 decades of over funding and the near 100 titles across the board are enough on their own but the annual income figures are the final nail in the coffin to the defenders of the funding disparity.

    Then the question again that I’ve asked you- Can we have a fair competition when several counties have income thats several million greater than the rest? If the resources have essentially always been heavily imbalanced have we ever had fair competition?

    (Both of these facts have been proven btw throughout the thread)


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    #7222
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Things have changed big time here. The line was that Dublin's dominance would come to an end, it all ends eventually. But now the 4 new counties will definitely dominate now and into the future!

    Dublin's dominance might come to an end, but the idea that you could create four teams in such a strong county probably rules out the natural cut and thrust of standards ebbing and flowing as it might with one team. No way would all the teams be down on their luck.

    In reality four teams like that competing with each other above all else (with development squads etc) when they became well-organised would probably drive standards even higher in the long run and further alienate other counties who'd be further down the pecking order.


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    #7223
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    dobman88 wrote: »
    No, nothing has changed for me.

    I was always of the opinion that 4 counties would dominate. That hasnt changed. Keep them restricted to 15 instead of 60 and things will level out as all things that are cyclical do.

    Is an all Dublin final and semi finals better in your ideal world of 4 counties? Or is it better to have 1 Dublin team with more semi final spots up for grabs for other teams?

    The new new counties will dominate but the one won't? This is just bizarre.


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    #7224
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Then the question again that I’ve asked you- Can we have a fair competition when several counties have income thats several million greater than the rest? If the resources have essentially always been heavily imbalanced have we ever had fair competition?

    (Both of these facts have been proven btw throughout the thread)

    I already answered. If any county has an annual income of 4, 5, 6 million more than other counties, then we can't have fair competitions. Isn't that just obvious?

    Oh you found evidence that Dublin were under funded prior to 2002? Can you provide it here?


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    #7225
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    I already answered. If any county has an annual income of 4, 5, 6 million more than other counties, then we can't have fair competitions. Isn't that just obvious?

    Oh you found evidence that Dublin were under funded prior to 2002? Can you provide it here?

    So you’re agreeing that if splits were to be considered we need to split several counties apart from dublin. After all it’s that massive resources that’s the basis for you dublin argument.. This is a huge shift in position for you.


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    #7226
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Rosita wrote: »
    Dublin's dominance might come to an end, but the idea that you could create four teams in such a strong county probably rules out the natural cut and thrust of standards ebbing and flowing as it might with one team. No way would all the teams be down on their luck.

    In reality four teams like that competing with each other above all else (with development squads etc) when they became well-organised would probably drive standards even higher in the long run and further alienate other counties who'd be further down the pecking order.

    So the 4 new counties in Dublin are going to be stronger than Dublin as one? Are ye lads really sticking with this line?


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    #7227
    superbluedub
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭superbluedub


    Enquiring wrote: »
    And people doubted that there would be a buy in from supporters in Dublin. It won't take much for big crowds to start attending matches of the new 4 counties.

    There wont be 4 new counties any time soon if ever , there will never be a buy in from Dublin supporters .


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    #7228
    superbluedub
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭superbluedub


    Enquiring wrote: »
    So the 4 new counties in Dublin are going to be stronger than Dublin as one? Are ye lads really sticking with this line?

    What 4 new Counties ? Dublin is one County , and will remain so for a long time yet.


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    #7229
    flasher0030
    Registered Users Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    ArielAtom wrote: »
    The split will never happen. No matter how much whinging snd botching on an Internet forum is done. Long may the dominance continue. It’s an absolute pleasure to witness the greatest football team ever to grace a GAA field show us all how the game should be played and in such a humble manner. A credit to their families snd clubs, one and all.

    I'd disagree in long may the dominance continue - but damn it, they play beautiful football. A good mix between the "hard man" contingency and delicious skills. I could watch Brian Fenton play all year long. I have never seen any player make it look so easy. Same with Dean Rock - a great ambassador. And neither of those 2 get involved in the controversials. Rock has been there a long time. Was he ever sent off in a Dublin championship game.


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    #7230
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    So you’re agreeing that if splits were to be considered we need to split several counties apart from dublin. After all it’s that massive resources that’s the basis for you dublin argument.. This is a huge shift in position for you.

    No evidence then?

    Why would we need to split any other county? Only Dublin have an annual income of 5 and 6 million above all others and the annual income is the final nail in the coffin in the argument to split Dublin, not the only reason for it.

    I know your response so I'll answer it before you ask. Kerry had a one off year of very high income. If that continues then of course something will have to be done. As I said, these questions are easy when fair play is the aim. Only the defenders of the financial disparity have difficulty answering questions as you know more than most.


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    #7231
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Enquiring wrote: »
    So the 4 new counties in Dublin are going to be stronger than Dublin as one? Are ye lads really sticking with this line?

    Didn't say that. But four teams of such potential strength would inevitably be in the top 8 counties most of the time - based on what we are seeing at the moment. Maybe in the long run with their own systems in place, under-age structures, development squads, yes potentially they might become as strong as the Dublin team has been. It'd make for a cracking All-Ireland final to be fair.


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