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The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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    #7142
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    To think it will get there, you have to ignore that Dublin have increased their income to incredible levels off the back of their increased success. Other Leinster counties are 5 and 6 million behind on yearly income, even the counties within the East Leinster project are in that bracket and the gap is increasing!

    Do we seriously want our competitions to slip further into those who can gain access to huge resources v those who can't? This is not the GAA I want and I'm of the belief that many others would agree with me.

    Just to be clear, you’re fine with some counties having incomes that’s many millions greater than other counties. That’s many multiples of other counties

    Just once that county isn’t dublin


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    #7143
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    rebel girl 15 wrote: »
    Took me 15 minutes to find and collate this data - I don't want you or any of the posters to take this the wrong way, but you simply don't have a clue about how the upper echelon's of GAA business work. You go in prepared - you trawl through everything available to you, you use any contacts you have to get the info - 2019 accounts were available for him to go through. 2020 should be out soon given that Congress was last weekend.

    2019 GAA accounts
    Leinster counties paid €2,791,599 in Games Development
    Latest census figures 1,285,318 people
    €2.17 per head of population

    Dublin paid 1,337,630 in Games Development
    Latest census 1,345,402 people
    €0.99 per head of population

    Well, I dont want you to take it the wrong way either, nor is it personal, but those figures are deliberately misleading. Fair play to enquiring, he has taken the time to debunk your point, I wouldnt have bothered tbh. The points the gaa official made have been shown to be disingenuous, why anyone of a reasonable mind would be chastising connellan in respect to that fact, I do not know.

    It would suggest you arent really looking at the thing objectively, but rather you are hearing what you want to hear. In all honesty, if that is the approach then what is the point in even listening/reading it?

    Also, connellan has little vested interest in this and has little to gain from it. The other lad is a different story. Turkeys wont vote for christmas, be they dublin gaa fans or gaa officials with lofty personal ambitions.


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    #7144
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    dobman88 wrote: »
    You must have missed the 2nd part of my post and it makes a lot of sense. So I'll post it again.

    Spending caps on county teams would do more to level the playing field besides trying to hamper sponsorship a county can generate.

    That way, you limit what counties spend on teams and instead they can put any surplus into developing facilities and the like. No team should be punished or have their sponsorship stopped after going out to get it.

    Oh I agree with spending caps as well as pooled sponsorship. Some counties are already spending close to 4 million on player development, I think a more balanced system is required.


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    #7145
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Equally there’s no acknowledgement that the dublin project itself took time to yield results. The dublin structures took years to yield benefits yet there are posters trying to attribute success back in the early noughties to funding. There seems to be his idea that if you throw money at games development it yields overnight results, which bizarrely enough is the mindset that the dublin project appears to have been designed to prevent.

    Kildare won their first u20/u21 All Ireland title for decades. Meath won their first Leinster minor in a decade. Wicklow beat Dublin in an underage football game for the first time in how long?

    Similarly, player development in Dublin had an immediate impact. Their first ever u21 All Ireland in football, followed soon by underage success in hurling and football that was unheard of pre funding.


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    #7146
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    ShyMets wrote: »
    One potential issue with pooled sponsorship is it may generate less money then envisaged.

    If teams teams know sponsorship will be pooled they may be less inclined to seek out blue chip sponsors.

    I'm not suggesting teams would purposely get a bad deal. But the likes of Dublin may not be inclined to target AIGs of this world

    So they would sulk and do a crappy job? Sounds like they are dublin gaa people, rather than gaa people. Anyone doing so could always be replaced by someone willing to do their job I suppose.
    Id imagine some joined up thinking, with the gaa being sold as an entity, would get far larger deals than dublin or anyone else would alone. Again, thinly veiled threats about earning power arent going to dissuade the debate. There was a gaa before dublin inc. There can be one after them too.


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    #7147
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Except that the idea of games development is to develop the games amongst your full catchment rather than just registered players......

    That’s why gdos go to the schools I guess

    Part if their role is to get access to kids at a young age to coach skills and encourage club involvement. Of course that's very beneficial to standards in Dublin but the main role of the coach is within the clubs themselves. That's were the elite standards get raised.


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    #7148
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Just to be clear, you’re fine with some counties having incomes that’s many millions greater than other counties. That’s many multiples of other counties

    Just once that county isn’t dublin

    I don't know where you have picked that up from? Certainly not the post you quoted. You need to drop the victim complex. As has been explained, this is not anti Dublin, this is pro fair play but as this thread is about Dublin, I think noting that they have a yearly income of many millions more than their competitors is fair.


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    #7149
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Part if their role is to get access to kids at a young age to coach skills and encourage club involvement. Of course that's very beneficial to standards in Dublin but the main role of the coach is within the clubs themselves. That's were the elite standards get raised.

    You really have no idea of how a gdo works in a dublin club do you?

    I mean a real idea, not a line you pulled from an internet article because it seemed to prove your point for a message board.

    Have you ever actually been involved with a club in dublins and seen how it works?


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    #7150
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Well, I dont want you to take it the wrong way either, nor is it personal, but those figures are deliberately misleading. Fair play to enquiring, he has taken the time to debunk your point, I wouldnt have bothered tbh. The points the gaa official made have been shown to be disingenuous, why anyone of a reasonable mind would be chastising connellan in respect to that fact, I do not know.

    It would suggest you arent really looking at the thing objectively, but rather you are hearing what you want to hear. In all honesty, if that is the approach then what is the point in even listening/reading it?

    Also, connellan has little vested interest in this and has little to gain from it. The other lad is a different story. Turkeys wont vote for christmas, be they dublin gaa fans or gaa officials with lofty personal ambitions.

    That's a really fair point. You don't become the Leinster council chairman by going up against Dublin, nevermind moving up higher. The Leinster council has a lot to answer for in all this.

    Somehow funding a few other counties in Leinster is solving all the issues now. Every other county can rest assured, the problem is being sorted by not giving you appropriate funding and continuing to fund Dublin.


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    #7151
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭ooter


    How is giving out accurate population figures that donnellan didn't have disingenuous?


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    #7152
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    That's a really fair point. You don't become the Leinster council chairman by going up against Dublin, nevermind moving up higher. The Leinster council has a lot to answer for in all this.

    Somehow funding a few other counties in Leinster is solving all the issues now. Every other county can rest assured, the problem is being sorted by not giving you appropriate funding and continuing to fund Dublin.

    Ah yeah here we go so, we must be in the endgame of the thread

    All a conspiracy- check
    Sinister forces in the Leinster council -check
    References to vested interests - check

    The Illuminati’ should be along any minute now


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    #7153
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    ooter wrote: »
    How is giving out accurate population figures that donnellan didn't have disingenuous?

    As far as I can find the only real point of contention with teehans numbers is whether the dublin money from sports ireland was ringfenced. Connellan has tried to imply it’s a huge deal but to be honest it’s not since it only goes to a timing of when the funding could have been redistributed, which is a live question anyway and one that I think most dublin posters would concede to some extent at least


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    #7154
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    You really have no idea of how a gdo works in a dublin club do you?

    I mean a real idea, not a line you pulled from an internet article because it seemed to prove your point for a message board.

    Have you ever actually been involved with a club in dublins and seen how it works?

    I have been involved in a club in Dublin and I know current and former GPO's. I know exactly what role they do and the huge benefits of it.

    I don't use anecdotal evidence however. The Dublin county board strategic manager has outlined the roll of the coaches. It's not some random quote from some random person.


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    #7155
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    So they would sulk and do a crappy job? Sounds like they are dublin gaa people, rather than gaa people. Anyone doing so could always be replaced by someone willing to do their job I suppose.
    Id imagine some joined up thinking, with the gaa being sold as an entity, would get far larger deals than dublin or anyone else would alone. Again, thinly veiled threats about earning power arent going to dissuade the debate. There was a gaa before dublin inc. There can be one after them too.

    It was not a thinly veined threat. I merely pointed a potential issue which may or may not arise.

    They can be a GAA after Dublin could be construed as a thinly veiled threat


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    #7156
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Ah yeah here we go so, we must be in the endgame of the thread

    All a conspiracy- check
    Sinister forces in the Leinster council -check
    References to vested interests - check

    The Illuminati’ should be along any minute now

    I think you want this thread to be ended as the facts have absolutely obliterated any argument that defends the financial disparity.


  • Options
    #7157
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    I think you want this thread to be ended as the facts have absolutely obliterated any argument that defends the financial disparity.

    Hey I’m happy to keep going, I’m not on the side that’s being reduced to conspiracy theories and talk of vested interests

    Which may be understandable given that all the split arguments have been demolished at this point and there’s really a small group determined to do an Alamo on it left


  • Options
    #7158
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Hey I’m happy to keep going, I’m not on the side that’s being reduced to conspiracy theories and talk of vested interests

    Which may be understandable given that all the split arguments have been demolished at this point and there’s really a small group determined to do an Alamo on it left

    How can we have fair competitions with Dublin having an annual income of 5 or 6 million more than most other counties? Can you answer that question without any whataboutery or deflection?


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    #7159
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    How can we have fair competitions with Dublin having an annual income of 5 or 6 million more than most other counties? Can you answer that question without any whataboutery or deflection?

    The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition with Kerry and Mayo having 2 to 3 x the income of their competitors I guess. The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition when Kerry’s 2019 income appears to be on par or better than dublins. The same way you think it’s been a fair competition when some counties have had 30 years of lucrative commercial arrangements.


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    #7160
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition with Kerry and Mayo having 2 to 3 x the income of their competitors I guess. The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition when Kerry’s 2019 income appears to be on par or better than dublins. The same way you think it’s been a fair competition when some counties have had 30 years of lucrative commercial arrangements.

    So you can't answer the question without resorting to whataboutery. That says everything. The games up, the financial disparity is indefensible. Now, you're not going to accept this and many Dubs won't either and that's understandable. It's not an easy thing to accept but we all have to introduce major changes so our games can have a healthy future. This will involve the possibility of caps on spending, pooled sponsorship, it will have to involve an increase in funding to many counties and also splitting Dublin into 4 which will lead to a change in structures as well.

    This will leave us with 35 counties with appropriate funding to promote and develop Gaelic games within their county, to improve structures in clubs nationwide and an equal opportunity to compete in inter county competitions. All with a newly designed championship structures. It's an exciting time and the hunger is there for these radical changes.


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    #7161
    Enquiring
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    flasher0030 wrote: »
    You can take that back, sonny boy. I was on Hill 16 with a Dublin scarf, shouting that ball over the bar at the end. I've lived in Dublin for more than half my life, played with a Dublin club for 15 years (albeit junior level), and now train the kids (including my own) at the local Dublin club. That win was the most memorable atmosphere of anything that I was ever at. I can only imagine what it was like for a true Dub.
    I didn't "go through it" because it was Dublin. It was on TG4 and I just caught the end of it. Didn't even know it was scheduled.
    I'm just saying it became very apparent that at the end, Dublin really got the rub of the green. Do you disagree with me? What points in particular do you disagree with.
    And out of interest what was said in 1995 that allowed Dublin to win same. What conspiracies. I don't remember to be honest.

    I do have my own thoughts on the funding alright and I have previously commented on them here. But at the end of the day we all have opinions. And they are not massively important.

    When all else fails, the begrudgery line or the anti Dublin line gets thrown out. It's a victim complex that is totally misplaced. If any other county had been over funded by the governing body of our sport for 2 decades, there would be calls for action to be taken with them also.


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    #7162
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    gourcuff wrote: »
    it would actually be a great even championship especially in leinster if dublin were not involved, or got knocked out in the first round (chances a thousand to one)... this year i assume will be another farce with no reform and business as usual

    Without dublin it would just be Kerry with a monopoly. Take them out and it’s probably a Mayo monopoly. Leinster would just return to a meaningless sideshow that never bothered anyone come September. Tbh if you want a balanced championship you need to fix a lot more than dublins role


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    #7163
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭ooter


    Ask any county in Leinster would they prefer to win the provincial championship or the all Ireland and I'd imagine every one of them would say the latter.
    You could actually get to the all Ireland final without winning Leinster or meeting Dublin along the way.
    Kildare got to the super 8s in 2018 without having to play Dublin, it wasn't Dublin's fault they didn't get any further.
    Dublin could win the next 10 leinsters, it still wouldn't stop any other county in Leinster from winning the all Ireland.


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    #7164
    gourcuff
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭gourcuff


    ooter wrote: »
    Ask any county in Leinster would they prefer to win the provincial championship or the all Ireland and I'd imagine every one of them would say the latter.
    You could actually get to the all Ireland final without winning Leinster or meeting Dublin along the way.
    Kildare got to the super 8s in 2018 without having to play Dublin, it wasn't Dublin's fault they didn't get any further.
    Dublin could win the next 10 leinsters, it still wouldn't stop any other county in Leinster from winning the all Ireland.

    There have been some player accounts and former player accounts of the demoralising impact one team winning 15/16 titles has had on Leinster, i don't think you can ignore that.


    Leinster should never have had byes into the later rounds either, open draw every year.


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    #7165
    gourcuff
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭gourcuff


    tritium wrote: »
    Without dublin it would just be Kerry with a monopoly. Take them out and it’s probably a Mayo monopoly. Leinster would just return to a meaningless sideshow that never bothered anyone come September. Tbh if you want a balanced championship you need to fix a lot more than dublins role

    Complete nonsense, the rest of the counties have not been financially doped (in addition to their myriad of other advantages) and its far more competitive, kerry and mayo cant play every game at home to get to win an all ireland either.

    Ros and Galway can beat mayo.
    Cork can beat Kerry.
    Practically everyone in ulster can beat each other.

    Ulster champs can beat mayo and kerry.
    mayo can regularly beat kerry.


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    #7166
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭ooter


    Dublin got to the all Ireland semi final without winning Leinster in 2010, it can be done.


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    #7167
    dobman88
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭dobman88


    ooter wrote: »
    Dublin got to the all Ireland semi final without winning Leinster in 2010, it can be done.

    And cork won the all Ireland that year without even contesting the Munster final which was between Kerry and Limerick.


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    #7168
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭ooter


    I gave up listening to wooly's pod a while ago but I'm glad I listened to that episode with Connellan, a lad called Gary Keegan was mentioned who I have to admit I never heard of before.
    Interestingly enough he was involved with the Dublin hurlers the year they won Leinster in 2013.
    https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/11/15/news/gary-keegan-1764837/


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    #7169
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,428 ✭✭✭tritium


    gourcuff wrote: »
    Complete nonsense, the rest of the counties have not been financially doped (in addition to their myriad of other advantages) and its far more competitive, kerry and mayo cant play every game at home to get to win an all ireland either.

    Ros and Galway can beat mayo.
    Cork can beat Kerry.
    Practically everyone in ulster can beat each other.

    Ulster champs can beat mayo and kerry.
    mayo can regularly beat kerry.

    I hate to disappoint you but the history of the championship doesn’t support your contention. Cork pulling an ambush this year doesn’t dampen the dominance of Kerry in Munster. Mayo can at least nod to Galway but the reality is Galway haven’t been competitive at the business end for two decades- Mayo have contested 7 finals in that time


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    #7170
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭ooter


    Mayo would hand back every Connaught they've won in the last 20 years for 1 all Ireland and the back door would've allowed them to do that.
    They actually got to the final in 2016 and 17 through the back door.


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    #7171
    thesultan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭thesultan


    Dublin are full time athletes but hurling is another thing who being supremely fit alone won't do. Hence the Dublin hurlers are a long way off..


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