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The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*
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Didn't say that. But four teams of such potential strength would inevitably be in the top 8 counties most of the time - based on what we are seeing at the moment. Maybe in the long run with their own systems in place, under-age structures, development squads, yes potentially they might become as strong as the Dublin team has been. It'd make for a cracking All-Ireland final to be fair.
So we have another voter for splitting Dublin here!0 -
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No evidence then?
Why would we need to split any other county? Only Dublin have an annual income of 5 and 6 million above all others and the annual income is the final nail in the coffin in the argument to split Dublin, not the only reason for it.
I know your response so I'll answer it before you ask. Kerry had a one off year of very high income. If that continues then of course something will have to be done. As I said, these questions are easy when fair play is the aim. Only the defenders of the financial disparity have difficulty answering questions as you know more than most.
Ah and so the mask slips again. It’s ok for other counties because ...reasons. It’s grand to have a 2x or even 3x disparity between some counties and their rivals but if dublin have resources that’s a problem. Unfortunately you poor, flawed argument keeps coming up against the same problems, for example you failure to address the vast wealth of some (non Dublin) counties throughout the years. You neglect to mention that the “one off” year for Kerry was, as to quote their treasurerfrom the increase in ticket income, arising from the success of our senior footballers
Ie the increase was the natural uptick that comes with success, something Kerry are very familiar with over the years.so not really an unusual thing as you’re spinning here. The same uptick by the way that you haven’t accounted for in dublins figures because...reasons0 -
I didn't offer an opinion on that either way - just pointing out the likely counter-productive outcome if it is being done to increase competition for other counties
I think trying to claim that Dublin with the resources available to them will not continue to dominate while simultaneously claiming that 4 new counties will definitely dominate is up there with the strangest defenses of the funding disparity.
But as it is, I've already noted that the 4 new counties have the population and resources to thrive. They will be better positioned to promote hurling and football in our capital. I don't see how you think having 4 new competitive teams in hurling and football is counter productive?
With every county receiving appropriate funding and 4 new counties in the mix, we're going to see standards raised across the country and new championship structures put in place. It'll be a radical change for sure but a very exciting change. It would allow the GAA to prosper in urban and disadvantaged areas around the country and increase participation rates which is obviously something all of us would welcome.0 -
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Ah and so the mask slips again. It’s ok for other counties because ...reasons. It’s grand to have a 2x or even 3x disparity between some counties and their rivals but if dublin have resources that’s a problem. Unfortunately you poor, flawed argument keeps coming up against the same problems, for example you failure to address the vast wealth of some (non Dublin) counties throughout the years. You neglect to mention that the “one off” year for Kerry was, as to quote their treasurer
Ie the increase was the natural uptick that comes with success, something Kerry are very familiar with over the years.so not really an unusual thing as you’re spinning here. The same uptick by the way that you haven’t accounted for in dublins figures because...reasons
I just said the opposite of what you just claimed. It's not ok for any counties to have millions more than everyone else. This really isn't difficult. I've told you repeatedly that if any other county had received 2 decades of over funding then calls for them to be split would be happening as well.
Do you have any evidence that shows Kerry have been over funded for 2 decades? If so, I'd have no issue adding them to the ban list.0 -
I think trying to claim that Dublin with the resources available to them will not continue to dominate while simultaneously claiming that 4 new counties will definitely dominate is up there with the strangest defenses of the funding disparity.
But as it is, I've already noted that the 4 new counties have the population and resources to thrive. They will be better positioned to promote hurling and football in our capital. I don't see how you think having 4 new competitive teams in hurling and football is counter productive?
With every county receiving appropriate funding and 4 new counties in the mix, we're going to see standards raised across the country and new championship structures put in place. It'll be a radical change for sure but a very exciting change. It would allow the GAA to prosper in urban and disadvantaged areas around the country and increase participation rates which is obviously something all of us would welcome.
All this talk of 4 new counties is just pie in the sky .Dublin supporters will never agree to it , and most certainly wouldnt welcome it and find it anything but exciting
but sure keep plugging away ,it aint gonna happen anytime soon if ever !0 -
Then the question again that I’ve asked you- Can we have a fair competition when several counties have income thats several million greater than the rest? If the resources have essentially always been heavily imbalanced have we ever had fair competition?
(Both of these facts have been proven btw throughout the thread)
Not it’s never been equal, always been in favour of Dublin.
Then the problem was made worse by the Gaa themselves who funded Dublin far in excess of every other county to add to the advantage and imbalance that was there.
Not rocket science really.0 -
Then why did he make a statement he was seeking the support of every club chair to get it to congress? He didn't bring it due to him not being prepared. A bit like his ill prepared debate with Mr Teehan. PPPPPP.
You means the ill prepared debate where the figures weren’t given to him beforehand but the other side had them, which actually turned out not be overly accurate either, ok that one.
He is seeking the support to bring it to congress, just not this congress gone, it’s quite simple really.0 -
You means the ill prepared debate where the figures weren’t given to him beforehand but the other side had them, which actually turned out not be overly accurate either, ok that one.
He is seeking the support to bring it to congress, just not this congress gone, it’s quite simple really.
Cheers you cleared up his poor preparation for the debate. Facts are facts. He had stated he was bringing it to this congress only he was ill prepared. Poor show for a man of his training, I wouldn’t like him representing me. Anyway it looks like it was the Westmeath GAA using him as a patsy.0 -
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flasher0030 wrote: »I'd disagree in long may the dominance continue - but damn it, they play beautiful football. A good mix between the "hard man" contingency and delicious skills. I could watch Brian Fenton play all year long. I have never seen any player make it look so easy. Same with Dean Rock - a great ambassador. And neither of those 2 get involved in the controversials. Rock has been there a long time. Was he ever sent off in a Dublin championship game.
It won’t continue. It will come to an end and the bedgrudgers will rejoice. Just to clarify I’m not saying you begrudge. I’ve been involved in GAA since 1973, so just enjoying it at present as there were barren years.0 -
I think trying to claim that Dublin with the resources available to them will not continue to dominate while simultaneously claiming that 4 new counties will definitely dominate is up there with the strangest defenses of the funding disparity.
But as it is, I've already noted that the 4 new counties have the population and resources to thrive. They will be better positioned to promote hurling and football in our capital. I don't see how you think having 4 new competitive teams in hurling and football is counter productive?
With every county receiving appropriate funding and 4 new counties in the mix, we're going to see standards raised across the country and new championship structures put in place. It'll be a radical change for sure but a very exciting change. It would allow the GAA to prosper in urban and disadvantaged areas around the country and increase participation rates which is obviously something all of us would welcome.
Dublin will not be split in any way shape or form unless they themselves agree to it, so it won't happen no matter how much you try to wrap that turd in ice cream.0 -
Cheers you cleared up his poor preparation for the debate. Facts are facts. He had stated he was bringing it to this congress only he was ill prepared. Poor show for a man of his training, I wouldn’t like him representing me. Anyway it looks like it was the Westmeath GAA using him as a patsy.
Listen sure we would all like a person representing us who could see in to the future to be able to comment on figures etc that were going to be sent to him after the debate to be fair.
There's prepared and there's PREPARED!
But you're right he wasnt prepared to bring his motion to congress in 2021 even though he didnt plan to bring it in 2021.
Maybe the hate mail and abuse hes been getting delayed him, ive heard on the grapevine it was getting serious.0 -
I just said the opposite of what you just claimed. It's not ok for any counties to have millions more than everyone else. This really isn't difficult. I've told you repeatedly that if any other county had received 2 decades of over funding then calls for them to be split would be happening as well.
Do you have any evidence that shows Kerry have been over funded for 2 decades? If so, I'd have no issue adding them to the ban list.
Ban list? I think that Freudian slip shows the mask slipping further on the real agenda
So it’s not really about the resources dublin has, since I’ve just demonstrated irrefutably that other counties are in a similar boat.
And we’ve demonstrated already that the funding question is being addressed, and indeed that games development resourcing for rest of Leinster hugely outstrips Dublin in spite of comparable population and is accelerating. Indeed we’ve shown that your own slanted historical figures neglect millions in funding provided by the GAA through channels other than inter county allocation.
And we’ve demonstrated that, yes indeed there was a dublin plan, which was utterly transparent and every single county had sight of. We’ve shown that dublins success simply can’t be synced solely to the timing of the money arriving.
And we’ve shown that Dublin clubs are helping to fund gd in the capital by half funding the GDOs. Still no explanation why clubs elsewhere haven’t been able to pool resources to increase the owns resources. We’ve shown that dublins clubs, while bigger by numbers, also have to be by necessity to cater for a larger number of people in vastly more limited playing spaces.
We’ve shown that the additional expenditure on land for example in Dublin reflects vastly higher prices for that commodity and that in fact dublin have far less pitches available in spite of having to pay a premium even for what they have
And we’ve demonstrated that other counties can generate huge commercial deals- cork most recently, and three decades of Kerry as an example. We’ve shown that these deals can and do bankroll state of the art infrastructure such as COEs
What are you going to claim it’s really about next?
I think you’ve pretty much proved rebel girls point from earlier at this stage. Begrudge you’re and simple.0 -
So it’s not really about the resources dublin has
It is about the resources Dublin have gained off the back of the plan formed and funded for them. You've trawled through my posts previously, you know everyone competing on an equal footing is the essential part of all this. You've also seen calls for pooled sponsorship, caps on spending and so on. Why do you think the only posters defending Dublin's over funding are from Kerry and Limerick?
You've backed yourself into a corner again. Do you think it's ok for Kerry to have income of millions more than every other county? You're going to have to say that it is ok and defend Kerry!
As it is, they had a higher than usual income level for 1 year. If it continues something has to be done. Like with Dublin, in 2016, they had income of 4 million more than Mayo, they have annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most counties. The gap is growing so it just can't continue.0 -
superbluedub wrote: »All this talk of 4 new counties is just pie in the sky .Dublin supporters will never agree to it , and most certainly wouldnt welcome it and find it anything but exciting
but sure keep plugging away ,it aint gonna happen anytime soon if ever !
Dublin seem to be having issues attracting their own supporters to games in recent times. Routine dominance is boring for everyone and fans are voting with their feet.0 -
And we’ve demonstrated already that the funding question is being addressed, and indeed that games development resourcing for rest of Leinster hugely outstrips Dublin in spite of comparable population and is accelerating. Indeed we’ve shown that your own slanted historical figures neglect millions in funding provided by the GAA through channels other than inter county allocation.
And we’ve demonstrated that, yes indeed there was a dublin plan, which was utterly transparent and every single county had sight of. We’ve shown that dublins success simply can’t be synced solely to the timing of the money arriving.
And we’ve shown that Dublin clubs are helping to fund gd in the capital by half funding the GDOs. Still no explanation why clubs elsewhere haven’t been able to pool resources to increase the owns resources. We’ve shown that dublins clubs, while bigger by numbers, also have to be by necessity to cater for a larger number of people in vastly more limited playing spaces.
We’ve shown that the additional expenditure on land for example in Dublin reflects vastly higher prices for that commodity and that in fact dublin have far less pitches available in spite of having to pay a premium even for what they have
And we’ve demonstrated that other counties can generate huge commercial deals- cork most recently, and three decades of Kerry as an example. We’ve shown that these deals can and do bankroll state of the art infrastructure such as COEs
What are you going to claim it’s really about next?
I think you’ve pretty much proved rebel girls point from earlier at this stage. Begrudge you’re and simple.
1. The funding issue is far from addressed. Cork with a similar amount of youth teams and players had 7 coaches in 2019 for example. Fractions of the amount available to Dublin.
2. We've proved that there was a plan developed for Dublin and it led to near 100 titles across the board.
3. It was a Dublin only scheme. Other counties had funding applications rejected by HQ. Why deprive children in other parts of the country in favour of Dublin?
4. If land is such an issue, why are the Dublin county board spending vast sums on elite developments instead of helping clubs?
5. So you're in favour of pooled sponsorship?
6. It's really about the over funding of Dublin for two decades and the results of that on and off the field.
7. To want fair play for all is not begrudging, trying to deny other counties an equal opportunity to compete while continuing with an uneven playing field is the issue.
Why do you think we should let Dublin continue to compete with annual income levels of 5 and 6 million more than most counties?0 -
It is about the resources Dublin have gained off the back of the plan formed and funded for them. You've trawled through my posts previously, you know everyone competing on an equal footing is the essential part of all this. You've also seen calls for pooled sponsorship, caps on spending and so on. Why do you think the only posters defending Dublin's over funding are from Kerry and Limerick?
You've backed yourself into a corner again. Do you think it's ok for Kerry to have income of millions more than every other county? You're going to have to say that it is ok and defend Kerry!
As it is, they had a higher than usual income level for 1 year. If it continues something has to be done. Like with Dublin, in 2016, they had income of 4 million more than Mayo, they have annual income of 5 and 6 million more than most counties. The gap is growing so it just can't continue.
Except the gap isn’t really growing except on your selective figures. Gd funding is being addressed and a number of counties are sorting out their commercials to maximise that stream. Equally you have this rather convenient habit of treating the county allocation as the be and end all while ignoring other funding that happens at a provincial level for example but benefits counties, and not at the same ratio as their county allocation. Then there’s your habit of harping in about money spent by the dublin clubs themselves as evidence of dublin spending: it’s very strange how other clubs outside dublin aren’t allowed to spend their own money isn’t it? Or the harping on about the high cost of membership in dublins clubs but miss that this is a choice they’ve made. GAA in dublins is traditionally strongest in working class communities so the argument about dubs have more money to pay subs doesn’t hold water either. It’s touching your concern for Mayo too, a county who have millions more income than their rivals. I suppose that is and always has been a fair level of competition? Tell me, have those millions bought Mayo any advantage or does money magically gain superpowers when it crosses the dublin border?
I don’t know why you think I’ll be defending Kerry either I’m the poster who has highlighted more than anyone the financial advantages Kerry and a few others have enjoyed over decades while you and other posters have been dismissive.I think at this point the one backed into a corner is yourself.0 -
Except the gap isn’t really growing except on your selective figures. Gd funding is being addressed and a number of counties are sorting out their commercials to maximise that stream. Equally you have this rather convenient habit of treating the county allocation as the be and end all while ignoring other funding that happens at a provincial level for example but benefits counties, and not at the same ratio as their county allocation. Then there’s your habit of harping in about money spent by the dublin clubs themselves as evidence of dublin spending: it’s very strange how other clubs outside dublin aren’t allowed to spend their own money isn’t it? Or the harping on about the high cost of membership in dublins clubs but miss that this is a choice they’ve made. GAA in dublins is traditionally strongest in working class communities so the argument about dubs have more money to pay subs doesn’t hold water either. It’s touching your concern for Mayo too, a county who have millions more income than their rivals. I suppose that is and always has been a fair level of competition? Tell me, have those millions bought Mayo any advantage or does money magically gain superpowers when it crosses the dublin border?
I don’t know why you think I’ll be defending Kerry either I’m the poster who has highlighted more than anyone the financial advantages Kerry and a few others have enjoyed over decades while you and other posters have been dismissive.I think at this point the one backed into a corner is yourself.
It is growing. I'm taking my figures from the Dublin county board. Dublin had sponsorship of 1.1 million in 2015, then it was 1.5 million in 2016, it was 2.3 million in 2020. Similarly, the spend on games development has increased to near 4 million per year. Are you saying these numbers are false?
We dealt with the provincial funding a long time ago. Counties including Dublin get funding from their provincial council's. This funding was enough for all counties bar Dublin to pay for between 1 and 6 coaches. You looked at the figures backing this up. Are you claiming they're false?
The funds available within Dublin clubs is a clear argument supporting the split. As has been noted by Dublin supporters, the resources are there for 4 counties to thrive. Do you have any evidence backing up your claim that it's only working class communities joining these clubs?
What financial advantages have you highlighted with Kerry? Do you have a problem with Kerry having a higher income level to anyone else? Can you explain the problems you have with them? Oh no, looks like you're trapped.0 -
Again using words to suit your agenda. Dublin funding. But Kerry income. Use like for like. Income from sponsorship has nothing to do with over funding from sports Ireland or whatever it is.0
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Again using words to suit your agenda. Dublin funding. But Kerry income. Use like for like. Income from sponsorship has nothing to do with over funding from sports Ireland or whatever it is.
Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!
Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.
I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?0 -
Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!
Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.
I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?
Again, you're talking about sponsorship. I couldnt give a fiddlers what any county gets through private sponsorship. If any county is unhappy or feel they are being given less than they should be by a sponsor, it's up to the county board to get a new, better deal.
If you have some evidence that Kerry were funded in line with Dublin from sports Ireland and the like, I'd be all for cutting that funding if it meant spreading it to smaller counties more evenly but while you continue to change the words to suit your agenda like funding and income, it's hard to take you seriously tbh0 -
Again, you're talking about sponsorship. I couldnt give a fiddlers what any county gets through private sponsorship. If any county is unhappy or feel they are being given less than they should be by a sponsor, it's up to the county board to get a new, better deal.
If you have some evidence that Kerry were funded in line with Dublin from sports Ireland and the like, I'd be all for cutting that funding if it meant spreading it to smaller counties more evenly but while you continue to change the words to suit your agenda like funding and income, it's hard to take you seriously tbh
You've made your position on fair competitions clear before. Discussing pooled sponsorship etc is for another thread.
You need to talk to the poster tritium looking for evidence in relation to funding etc. He appears to be making the claim that Kerry have been over funded a lot longer than Dublin.0 -
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I have and I'm all for it. The sooner we get a tiered system the fairer it will be for every county to have a decent shot at all Ireland honours.
Your idea of fair competitions is Dublin and Kerry spending millions so they can go back to the good old days of a 2 team football championship. That's not in anyone else's interest.
Have you messaged tritium in relation to his issues with Kerry's finances?0 -
It is growing. I'm taking my figures from the Dublin county board. Dublin had sponsorship of 1.1 million in 2015, then it was 1.5 million in 2016, it was 2.3 million in 2020. Similarly, the spend on games development has increased to near 4 million per year. Are you saying these numbers are false?
We dealt with the provincial funding a long time ago. Counties including Dublin get funding from their provincial council's. This funding was enough for all counties bar Dublin to pay for between 1 and 6 coaches. You looked at the figures backing this up. Are you claiming they're false?
The funds available within Dublin clubs is a clear argument supporting the split. As has been noted by Dublin supporters, the resources are there for 4 counties to thrive. Do you have any evidence backing up your claim that it's only working class communities joining these clubs?
What financial advantages have you highlighted with Kerry? Do you have a problem with Kerry having a higher income level to anyone else? Can you explain the problems you have with them? Oh no, looks like you're trapped.
Keep flogging that dead horse, might come to life yet
Do I have a problem with Kerry? Not once everyone’s happy that the imbalance that’s existed in the GAA for many many decades is just continuing. If I were from most of the Munster counties I might legitimately ask why everyone cares about resources when dublin are mentioned but didn’t care for decades when Kerry were dishing out the hidings. A few Connacht counties might legitimately ask the same of mayo. Personally I’d love to see weaker counties funded better but a split of Dublin does nothing for that. Your split proposal would simply split dublin income 4 ways while keeping exceptionally high income levels for Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.
In terms of dublin GAA, are you actually aware of where many dublin clubs are concentrated- ballymun, finglas for example. it’s actually been one of the talking points for the last number of years that the development was leaving that group behind, someone pointed out a few years ago how tallaght for example wasn’t seeing as many players come through to the dublin team as in the past.
The funds within dublin clubs have nothing to say about the split. Not without accounting for the costs associated with managing a bigger pool of people in a more expensive environment A more legitimate question is if dublin clubs charge higher subs to their members but as a result can resource half the cost of a coach for example what’s to stop any other club or group of clubs doing the same?
On the other funding we really didn’t address it. Millions in gd funding isnt accounted for in your selective figures. And your only argument is that it must get distributed in the same way. Where is the breakdown for this?
It’s interesting you didn’t address the point in mayos financial advantages over many of their opponents btw0 -
Keep flogging that dead horse, might come to life yet
Do I have a problem with Kerry? Not once everyone’s happy that the imbalance that’s existed in the GAA for many many decades is just continuing. If I were from most of the Munster counties I might legitimately ask why everyone cares about resources when dublin are mentioned but didn’t care for decades when Kerry were dishing out the hidings. A few Connacht counties might legitimately ask the same of mayo. Personally I’d love to see weaker counties funded better but a split of Dublin does nothing for that. Your split proposal would simply split dublin income 4 ways while keeping exceptionally high income levels for Mayo, Kerry and a handful of others.
In terms of dublin GAA, are you actually aware of where many dublin clubs are concentrated- ballymun, finglas for example. it’s actually been one of the talking points for the last number of years that the development was leaving that group behind, someone pointed out a few years ago how tallaght for example wasn’t seeing as many players come through to the dublin team as in the past.
The funds within dublin clubs have nothing to say about the split. Not without accounting for the costs associated with managing a bigger pool of people in a more expensive environment A more legitimate question is if dublin clubs charge higher subs to their members but as a result can resource half the cost of a coach for example what’s to stop any other club or group of clubs doing the same?
On the other funding we really didn’t address it. Millions in gd funding isnt accounted for in your selective figures. And your only argument is that it must get distributed in the same way. Where is the breakdown for this?
It’s interesting you didn’t address the point in mayos financial advantages over many of their opponents btw
Maybe you can outline the issues you have with Kerry and provide some evidence, dobman has requested some above.
The aim is for everyone to compete on an equal footing. That includes all counties. The only inconsistency here is coming from yourself. You have issues with finances of other counties but none for Dublin who have far more!
So you also have no evidence to back up your claim that it's just working class people joining clubs. That's a very lengthy list of claims you've made that you failed to back up.
The cost of club memberships and land issues is very much connected to the split. It shows that the 4 counties are well positioned to thrive and also the new county boards will be better placed to sort land issues with their already established county councils.
We did address it. The funding paid for between 1 to 6 coaches. You read the data supporting this.
Mayo's finances have been brought up before and we had Mayo posters state they had no issue with the extra funding being sorted out. It appears to be only Dublin and Kerry supporters who want the status quo to continue.
You still have failed to justify your view that 2 decades of over funding and increased income of over 7 million annually off the back of that is all fine without resorting to whataboutery. Are you unable to justify it?0 -
Maybe you can correct Dublin supporters misplaced victim complex? You know Kerry and the likes spending power is next on the list!
Obviously, the funding of Dublin and its results are the reasons for the split but having an annual income of 7 million plus and rising just adds to the urgency of it. Kerry had a one off year of extremely high income but we've already discussed pooled sponsorship etc which will sort that kind of thing.
I'm sure you can agree that continued income earnings of millions more than everyone else can't lead to fair competitions?
What split ? , there is no split , and there wont be anytime soon if ever0 -
superbluedub wrote: »What split ? , there is no split , and there wont be anytime soon if ever
I think there will be.
And its unfortunate because its not Dublins fault, they only made the best use of every advantage that was handed to them but its gone too far unfortunately.
The GAA have a lot to answer for0 -
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I think there will be.
And its unfortunate because its not Dublins fault, they only made the best use of every advantage that was handed to them but its gone too far unfortunately.
The GAA have a lot to answer for
There won’t be a split any time soon I reckon. A small number of the stronger counties may try to push it but the majority of counties will see nothing for them in a change that simply reinforces the previous status quo. Most of the smaller counties will be more interested in how they get their hands on gdos and queuing to pay their 50% share since they see that the system is a good and innovative one. They’ll basically see it as their chance to catch up to the mayos and Kerry’s (which it is) and the GAA need to support that (and to be fair they seem to be)
If the stronger counties push a split in their own self interest they actually run the risk of it coming back to bite them. Many of the counties that have traditionally been ignored and left behind will legitimately ask why it’s ok for Kerry and Mayo to have massive resources and why they’re not also being restructured. Once that happens the whole inter county structure of the championship is up for debate. That’s a whole separate discussion but realistically the strongest counties would likely cease to exist in a restructure of that magnitude.
Be careful what you wish for0
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