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I need feminism because... [READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING]

245

Comments

  • #52
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    I really need feminism because, as recent events show, any attempt to talk about the issues women face simply for being women are constantly under bombardment from a certain subset of men who are so very keen to tell us what is the "right" way to be feminist, which ways they approve of etc. etc.

    Here's a note for you guys, maybe back off, shut up and actually listen for a change?


  • #53
    LenaClaire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭LenaClaire


    sullivlo wrote: »
    Is it about baby rabbits? Because that is the only justifiable reason to call research "cute".

    Nope, it is about political science :)


  • #54
    allym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭allym


    B0jangles wrote: »
    I really need feminism because, as recent events show, any attempt to talk about the issues women face simply for being women are constantly under bombardment from a certain subset of men who are so very keen to tell us what is the "right" way to be feminist, which ways they approve of etc. etc.

    Here's a note for you guys, maybe back off, shut up and actually listen for a change?

    Ah sure aren't they only trying to help us understand. Our little woman brains aren't capable of understanding the things we go through on a daily basis.


  • #55
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭PressRun


    B0jangles wrote: »
    I really need feminism because, as recent events show, any attempt to talk about the issues women face simply for being women are constantly under bombardment from a certain subset of men who are so very keen to tell us what is the "right" way to be feminist, which ways they approve of etc. etc.

    Here's a note for you guys, maybe back off, shut up and actually listen for a change?

    +1

    A certain kind of man constantly trying to hijack every conversation about women's issues is proof in and of itself that feminism is still needed. While women can't even discuss their own experiences in a space designed for just that because certain men still want to dominate the conversation, undermine women's experiences and talk down to them, then feminism is still needed.


  • #56
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    I need feminism because today I was condescendingly smiled at in a hardware store and reminded to get the man of the house to help me fix the problem.

    He's lucky I didn't shove the nozzle off of the expandable foam somewhere the sun don't shine and turn it on.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I need feminism because I told a guy who was coming on to me aggressively to back off, and his reaction was to ask me if I had a boyfriend.

    Some men still think that you're fair game as long as you're not some other mans property.


  • #58
    Lau2976
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    I need feminism because a few years ago an ex broke into my house and threatened to kill me with a crow bar and I was told that he must really love me and that he was just upset and panicked.


  • #59
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    I Was a Men’s Rights Activist
    One man’s journey from misogyny to feminism

    Very fascinating read.


  • #60
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,674 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Links234 wrote: »
    I Was a Men’s Rights Activist
    One man’s journey from misogyny to feminism

    Very fascinating read.

    was that this guy? Logicked seems to have the measure of the guy "idiot mra becomes idiot feminist" , his critique made me chuckle anyway

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8O0xtbyswk

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • #61
    Tigger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭Tigger99


    That's a very interesting read Links, thanks for that.

    I need feminism because I'm usually the only female in gatherings of senior management in my field.


  • #62
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    ...because even though I am supporting my partner financially, when I order the bill in a restaurant they always hand it to him. I've had people read my (obviously) female name on my credit card, and still hand it to him for the PIN!

    ...because In business meetings and work in general I'm always expected to prove myself, while male colleagues tend to get more respect at the start even if they're later proven to be incompetent.

    ...because people I know are forced to travel for abortion and are judged for it if they ever tell anyone.


  • #63
    Eatyourveg
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Eatyourveg


    Irish men are very egalitarian compared to other men from other countries ,maybe they're a bit slow but they always
    approach women with dignity and respect and in a funny manner,I listen to many women throughout the world comment on this.
    you never hear them comment bad behind women's backs,but if seems they are the devils off the world to Irish women and especially Irish media
    maybe it's the in thing too do now to bash Irish men or something ,or maybe blame other countries issues onto Irish men


  • #64
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Eatyourveg wrote: »
    Irish men are very egalitarian compared to other men from other countries ,maybe they're a bit slow but they always
    approach women with dignity and respect and in a funny manner,I listen to many women throughout the world comment on this.
    you never hear them comment bad behind women's backs,but if seems they are the devils off the world to Irish women and especially Irish media
    maybe it's the in thing too do now to bash Irish men or something ,or maybe blame other countries issues onto Irish men

    :confused:

    And what exactly does this have to do with feminism?


  • #65
    Eatyourveg
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Eatyourveg


    Everything


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eatyourveg wrote: »
    Irish men are very egalitarian compared to other men from other countries ,maybe they're a bit slow but they always
    approach women with dignity and respect and in a funny manner    ,I listen to many women throughout the world comment on this.
    you never hear them comment bad behind women's backs,but if seems they are the devils off the world to Irish women and especially Irish media
    maybe it's the in thing too do now to bash Irish men or something ,or maybe blame other countries issues onto Irish men

    Most of the time this is true, thankfully.

    Sometimes though, this is very, very, untrue. There have been many times where I've been pestered and disrespected and downright mauled and molested.

    It doesn't make Irish men devils in general, just the few who do it.


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  • #67
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    Eatyourveg wrote: »
    Irish men are very egalitarian compared to other men from other countries ,maybe they're a bit slow but they always
    approach women with dignity and respect and in a funny manner,I listen to many women throughout the world comment on this.
    you never hear them comment bad behind women's backs,but if seems they are the devils off the world to Irish women and especially Irish media
    maybe it's the in thing too do now to bash Irish men or something ,or maybe blame other countries issues onto Irish men

    Mod
    You've already been spoken to about derailing the thread. This is a final reminder to read the OP and the charter, otherwise you will be taking some time off from TLL.


  • #68
    Eatyourveg
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Eatyourveg


    what is unwanted attention to one women is not enough attention to another women


  • #69
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    Eatyourveg wrote: »
    what is unwanted attention to one women is not enough attention to another women

    Mod
    User banned for ignoring mods instruction.

    Please don't respond to them on thread.


  • #70
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I would argue that the concepts of feminism and pro-life/anti-abortion are mutually exclusive. The two clash fundamentally and so are extremely difficult if not impossible to reconcile.

    I wouldn't necessarily agree. The question of abortion is at heart about whether an unborn child is a full human or not, and therefore whether killing him/her/it is permissible or not. I think abortion ought to be permitted up until about 6 months when the nervous system is somewhat developed, and possibly even later, but I've never seen it as being mainly a women's rights issue.


  • #71
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    goose2005 wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily agree. The question of abortion is at heart about whether an unborn child is a full human or not, and therefore whether killing him/her/it is permissible or not. I think abortion ought to be permitted up until about 6 months when the nervous system is somewhat developed, and possibly even later, but I've never seen it as being mainly a women's rights issue.

    I'm not seeing your logic there.

    The right to have an abortion is a right a woman should be entitled to?


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  • #72
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Stheno wrote: »
    I'm not seeing your logic there.

    The right to have an abortion is a right a woman should be entitled to?

    If I understood it correctly it is regarding the time limits. I know a case where woman had to travel from Italy for abortion in seventh month of pregnancy. The limit in Italy is 22 weeks. In this case it was not fatal fetal abnormalities but Zica virus and consequences it brings. Although child would survive the quality of life would be dreadful. I would agree that in that when fetus can survive outside womb it might not be just a woman's issue.

    BTW personally I think it was the right thing to do but some pro choice people might disagree with late therm abortions in case of non fatal disabilities.


  • #73
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    Mod
    Just a reminder of the thread title. We don't want this to turn into a pro-life/pro-choice debate.


  • #74
    sullivlo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭sullivlo


    I need feminism because I need it to be okay for a female to cycle faster than a male. I need us to be seen as cyclists rather than male or female cyclists.

    (Cycling to work this morning I was just doing my usual pace - nothing too strenuous for the commute as I don't like the showers in work. There's one small hill on my commute and I overtook somebody on it. Only for them to speed up when they realised I'm a girl. I pulled in and let them go ahead, but was faster to pull away at the next set of lights. I think there was a battle about 6/7 times from the other person, yet they had no issue with the other male cyclists overtaking him. I wasn't in the mood to play games so I just continued on my merry way, it was nice to have someone to break the wind for me. But it irritates me that I'm perceived to be weaker because I'm a girl. Any of my male cycling friends love it if I overtake them, because they see me as a cyclist, then a girl.)

    /rant


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,007 ✭ [Deleted User]


    goose2005 wrote: »
    The question of abortion is at heart about whether an unborn child is a full human or not

    Maybe for you but not for others.
    goose2005 wrote: »
    I've never seen it as being mainly a women's rights issue.

    Because the heart of the issue is bodily integrity and because only the bodily integrity of women is at stake, it is, for many, very much a women's rights issue.


  • #76
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    sullivlo wrote: »
    Mod
    Just a reminder of the thread title. We don't want this to turn into a pro-life/pro-choice debate.

    Oh sorry didn't intend to do that. I just wanted to point out the is not as simple as yes or no answer.


  • #77
    Scarinae
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 11,362 ✭✭✭✭Scarinae


    I need feminism because the way a woman looks is often seen as more important than her personality or achievements.

    One of my friends pointed out on facebook that in the obituary of Victoria Wood in The Times, it alludes to her weight 12 times - six times directly, plus three mentions of her eating habits and three further references to women's body shapes. Then in the second-to-last paragraph (of 32 paragraphs) they mention that she won five BAFTAs.


  • #78
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Yeah that bugs me too.
    The fact the Angela Merkel wears the exact same suit every day (just changing the colour) so that people won't comment on her clothes and will comment on what she says. How many male politicians have to make that sort of decision?


  • #79
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,328 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    Because when I'm out for dinner with my boyfriend the bill is always placed in front of him regardless of whether I asked for it or he did.


  • #80
    fatknacker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭fatknacker


    ...I didn't read a single article about Prince's relationship or family status when he died. All of them were on his artistic merit.


  • #81
    ChampagnePop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭ChampagnePop


    I don't think I would be very passionate about feminism if there wasn't such an aggressive and persistent campaign by some people to oppress it.
    Particularly when one female says a ridiculous comment but this is then pushed as "a feminist belief", because we all think the same and should take responsibility for half the worlds populations' opinion *RAGE*


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  • #82
    BlondeMoment
    Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭BlondeMoment


    I need it because after growing up in a male dominated household, growing up as a complete tomboy and having the same experiences (playing soccer, climbing trees, jumping out of those trees, etc.) as all of my brothers, I was always treated equally. I was capable of the same things as them. "Being a girl" never really came up.

    But now that im in the dating world, and I tell guys what im studying in college and what I want to do when im finished my studies, its met with "that'd be tough dont you think?" or "that would be hard going, would you not do something easier?"

    WHY??

    Id like to think il be more than capable to work in the profession ive chosen with some level of competency after 4-5 years of study!! Just like you, you buffoon you. (Not you reader, the lads this is aimed at! :p)

    If we're not equal fella, we're nothing. Goodbye.


  • #83
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    MOD: ElectricSexPants, I deleted your post because of whataboutery. Read the first post in this thread and the charter again. If you carry on, you'll be carded.


  • #84
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    I need it because I just saw a picture of Joan Burton on Twitter. She was with some kids who are up for an award, and she looks genuinely happy for them, and has a beautiful smile. Which made me think of all the horrible stuff people have said about her appearance totally separate to her politics. And I want to shove it down every one of their faces holes and say, "See! A normal woman, with a genuine smile and beauty."


  • #85
    Eatyourveg
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Eatyourveg


    I need feminism because I want everybody to have opportunities ,
    I believe feminism also should push for equality for men also because it will benefit the cause greatly, I think in this day and age
    This idea that you’re raised, that you have to provide, you have to earn, you have to be the breadwinner, is really unfair on men. I don’t think It does them any good.and in the long run is not doing women any good either,
    I’m a young man in my 20s. I can only vouch for the fact that no girl has ever approached me or asked me out on a date herself, and it would be extraordinary for one to pay for my meal. Most guys my age I’ve asked are in the same boat. Its simply not an option for us to wait around and expect a member of the opposite sex to come and start showering me with gifts or start paying the bills.

    Here’s the thing – being a breadwinner is the only option as a man and is the root cause off depression and suicide in Ireland and Europe

    Unlike men, women in our society still have all these entirely separate sources of income and support that have evolved over the centuries, as they are desired for their looks and femininity alone. Yes, a minority of girls (and generally the ones that don’t take care of themselves in the first place) may not be able to take advantage of this, but it is certainly vastly higher than the portion of men. also
    I think this American style tinder dating culture is leaving young men felling angry and resentful and used


  • #86
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I need feminism because I'm sick of posters making it about men and derailing the thread.


  • #87
    allym
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭allym


    The ones who don't take care of themselves. Wow


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't forget that women are desired
    for their looks and femininity alone.

    This kind of utter crap is why I need feminism.


  • #89
    Eatyourveg
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Eatyourveg


    ''Cnndie'' you are taking what i said out off context ,I didn't mean it like that and well you know it

    I am not your enemy here people
    we are on the same side called ''humanity''the things i'm saying will benefit feminism

    we must get away from this american type off feminism and more danish type which includes men issues


  • #90
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Eatyourveg wrote: »
    ''Cnndie'' you are taking what i said out off context ,I didn't mean it like that and well you know it

    I am not your enemy here people
    we are on the same side called ''humanity''the things i'm saying will benefit feminism

    we must get away from this american type off feminism and more danish type which includes men issues

    That kind of patronising bull is not what this thread is about. You're making this thread all about men which just proves feminism is still needed.


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  • #91
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,509 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Caught an episode of This American Life (link) today. It discusses FGM without sparing any of details. Disturbing and compelling listening.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #92
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Male proud to be a chauvinist oppressor = good.

    Women who dare threaten that by speaking out, questioning the status quo or not being "lady like" or "hysterical" are silenced at every turn and accused of a "feminist agenda" as if that's a bad thing???

    Because of terms like "bitch" and "bossy" being used when women are assertive and demand what is rightfully theirs TOO.

    **** right off. Feminist and proud, and if you're threatened by that well tough luck. Grow up.


  • #93
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I need feminism because I'm fed up of lone extreme women and their views being transferred onto ALL feminists.

    I need feminism because I'm sick trying to explain that I can be feminist and still love and fight for all the amazing men in my life.

    I need feminism because I can't accept another generation of women having no access to abortion.


  • #94
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Oh, I love the "what about men's issues?" brigade. Uh... you mean the issues imposed by the male politicians? Male CEOs? Male bankers and developers? Male directed movies? Male controlled media? Decisions made by male judges? Male bosses? The males who call each other out on being "pussies", "bitches", etc? Yea.. woman are sorry we cause that with our feminist agenda. Our bad.

    Psst... Feminists (male & female) are on your side. They want to get rid of these issues, social constructs, gender confines. It's bad for us all.

    Why does there have to be some ulterior motive? Some plan to oust men?
    Do the whingers in MRA even know what feminism means?


  • #95
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭PressRun


    "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."


  • #96
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,509 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Catari Jaguar wrote: »
    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Male proud to be a chauvinist oppressor = good.

    Certain sections of Youtube are atrocious in this respect. Often the comments are about the issue, but those discussing it, sometimes viciously. On pay, Robin Wright just came out about getting equal pay on House of Cards. There's a liberal channel I watch and any time a video has feminism in the title, or something about women's issues, the dislike button goes absolutely nuts. Right now, on one about Robin Wright it's 930/2,587 like/dislike. (link). You can be guaranteed it's a certain shower of characters that are doing it every damn time.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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  • #97
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Catari Jaguar wrote: »
    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Why would men term them Feminists when even without looking further than this thread that its is only acceptable that women can have views on Feminism.

    You say that
    Catari Jaguar wrote: »
    Psst... Feminists (male & female) are on your side. They want to get rid of these issues, social constructs, gender confines. It's bad for us all.

    The poster EatYourVeg made a point about changing gender roles would result in more equality, this is exactly what your apparently talking about.

    The response is
    eviltwin wrote: »
    I need feminism because I'm sick of posters making it about men and derailing the thread.

    And a mod warning.

    So tell me (and I do feel its ok for me to post on this thread after this post since its massively generalizing about people who dislike modern feminism which is the majority of men).

    If feminism equals equality and is good for men to why can't a male poster put forward what he thinks will improve social equality without being attacked for his gender (its ok to attack the ideas if you think they are flawed)

    on a secondary note if its about equality and improving things for both sexes how come the gender divide in terms of college education isn't as big an issue as lack of women in STEM for any feminists (something like 70-30 in many 1st world countries)

    I'm sure I will get a mod warning for this but can I point out that this thread is meant to be "why I need feminism" that doesn't mean its ok to label and disparage those who disagree with your chosen political cause.


  • #98
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    So tell me (and I do feel its ok for me to post on this thread after this post since its massively generalizing about people who dislike modern feminism which is the majority of men).


    Self-awareness fail there RDM...


  • #99
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Self-awareness fail there RDM...

    Look at any polling about how many people self identify as Feminist or their views on the word


  • #100
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    All such polls tell us is that people tend to dislike any movement which challenges their preconceptions and if successful, threatens to deprive them of undeserved advantage.

    How popular do you think the civil rights movement was in the Southern States in the '60s?

    Gandhi put it very well: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    Right now we're still at fighting but we'll get there yet!


  • #101
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Look at any polling about how many people self identify as Feminist or their views on the word


    Thread title:

    "I need feminism because...", not:

    "Yet another moan about how I dislike modern feminism here and I'm going to assume the majority of men dislike modern feminism like I do"

    I think this is a great thread for feminists who need feminism, and it makes some great points, but eatyourveg's nonsense was just embarrassing, and transparent. I disagree with some of what's been posted too, but I have the rest of the whole bloody internet to make my point rather than piss all over one bloody thread and make a gimp of myself, offering further justification for why feminists still need feminism.

    See how it works?


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