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I need feminism because... [READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Male proud to be a chauvinist oppressor = good.

    Women who dare threaten that by speaking out, questioning the status quo or not being "lady like" or "hysterical" are silenced at every turn and accused of a "feminist agenda" as if that's a bad thing???

    Because of terms like "bitch" and "bossy" being used when women are assertive and demand what is rightfully theirs TOO.

    **** right off. Feminist and proud, and if you're threatened by that well tough luck. Grow up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I need feminism because I'm fed up of lone extreme women and their views being transferred onto ALL feminists.

    I need feminism because I'm sick trying to explain that I can be feminist and still love and fight for all the amazing men in my life.

    I need feminism because I can't accept another generation of women having no access to abortion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Oh, I love the "what about men's issues?" brigade. Uh... you mean the issues imposed by the male politicians? Male CEOs? Male bankers and developers? Male directed movies? Male controlled media? Decisions made by male judges? Male bosses? The males who call each other out on being "pussies", "bitches", etc? Yea.. woman are sorry we cause that with our feminist agenda. Our bad.

    Psst... Feminists (male & female) are on your side. They want to get rid of these issues, social constructs, gender confines. It's bad for us all.

    Why does there have to be some ulterior motive? Some plan to oust men?
    Do the whingers in MRA even know what feminism means?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭PressRun


    "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,160 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Male proud to be a chauvinist oppressor = good.

    Certain sections of Youtube are atrocious in this respect. Often the comments are about the issue, but those discussing it, sometimes viciously. On pay, Robin Wright just came out about getting equal pay on House of Cards. There's a liberal channel I watch and any time a video has feminism in the title, or something about women's issues, the dislike button goes absolutely nuts. Right now, on one about Robin Wright it's 930/2,587 like/dislike. (link). You can be guaranteed it's a certain shower of characters that are doing it every damn time.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Because of many comments I read alone writing women off because of their so called "feminist agenda"

    So you're not a feminist then? You don't believe women are equal to men and should have equal rights, equal say over their body, equal opportunity, equal education and equal pay?

    Why would men term them Feminists when even without looking further than this thread that its is only acceptable that women can have views on Feminism.

    You say that
    Psst... Feminists (male & female) are on your side. They want to get rid of these issues, social constructs, gender confines. It's bad for us all.

    The poster EatYourVeg made a point about changing gender roles would result in more equality, this is exactly what your apparently talking about.

    The response is
    eviltwin wrote: »
    I need feminism because I'm sick of posters making it about men and derailing the thread.

    And a mod warning.

    So tell me (and I do feel its ok for me to post on this thread after this post since its massively generalizing about people who dislike modern feminism which is the majority of men).

    If feminism equals equality and is good for men to why can't a male poster put forward what he thinks will improve social equality without being attacked for his gender (its ok to attack the ideas if you think they are flawed)

    on a secondary note if its about equality and improving things for both sexes how come the gender divide in terms of college education isn't as big an issue as lack of women in STEM for any feminists (something like 70-30 in many 1st world countries)

    I'm sure I will get a mod warning for this but can I point out that this thread is meant to be "why I need feminism" that doesn't mean its ok to label and disparage those who disagree with your chosen political cause.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,336 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    So tell me (and I do feel its ok for me to post on this thread after this post since its massively generalizing about people who dislike modern feminism which is the majority of men).


    Self-awareness fail there RDM...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Self-awareness fail there RDM...

    Look at any polling about how many people self identify as Feminist or their views on the word


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    All such polls tell us is that people tend to dislike any movement which challenges their preconceptions and if successful, threatens to deprive them of undeserved advantage.

    How popular do you think the civil rights movement was in the Southern States in the '60s?

    Gandhi put it very well: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

    Right now we're still at fighting but we'll get there yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,336 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Look at any polling about how many people self identify as Feminist or their views on the word


    Thread title:

    "I need feminism because...", not:

    "Yet another moan about how I dislike modern feminism here and I'm going to assume the majority of men dislike modern feminism like I do"

    I think this is a great thread for feminists who need feminism, and it makes some great points, but eatyourveg's nonsense was just embarrassing, and transparent. I disagree with some of what's been posted too, but I have the rest of the whole bloody internet to make my point rather than piss all over one bloody thread and make a gimp of myself, offering further justification for why feminists still need feminism.

    See how it works?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Why would men term them Feminists when even without looking further than this thread that its is only acceptable that women can have views on Feminism.

    You say that



    The poster EatYourVeg made a point about changing gender roles would result in more equality, this is exactly what your apparently talking about.

    The response is



    And a mod warning.

    So tell me (and I do feel its ok for me to post on this thread after this post since its massively generalizing about people who dislike modern feminism which is the majority of men).

    If feminism equals equality and is good for men to why can't a male poster put forward what he thinks will improve social equality without being attacked for his gender (its ok to attack the ideas if you think they are flawed)

    on a secondary note if its about equality and improving things for both sexes how come the gender divide in terms of college education isn't as big an issue as lack of women in STEM for any feminists (something like 70-30 in many 1st world countries)

    I'm sure I will get a mod warning for this but can I point out that this thread is meant to be "why I need feminism" that doesn't mean its ok to label and disparage those who disagree with your chosen political cause.

    If you want to critique feminism go ahead, I think debate is healthy and informative but can you really not see that this thread is not the place for it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Walker Scruffy Trial


    Feminism can be very relevant to problems which affect men. The 8:1 suicide rates, or the awful situation of male victims of sexual and domestic abuse for example. Issues which at least partly arise from the expectation for men to be strong and silent and women to be weak and talky, and the association of asking for help or being a victim with femininity and therefore the cultural construction of those things as inherently emasculating. That kills men, and it arises from the structures which feminism is designed to oppose.

    'Women don't chat me up and it's not fair that they can skate through life on their looks and I can't' is at the very least a badly misguided take on how feminism relates to men's issues though, and is not appropriate for this thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Tbh, in academic circles anyway, the feminist conversation has had a lot more interesting and useful things to say about men's issues and masculinity in general than any men's rights movement I've ever come across. The men's rights movement is almost entirely reactionary and achieves virtually nothing except stoking the fire of misguided anger as a result.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    eviltwin wrote: »
    If you want to critique feminism go ahead, I think debate is healthy and informative but can you really not see that this thread is not the place for it?

    And can you not see that its not ok to insult or ascribe false motivations to the huge number of people that have an issue with modern feminism.


    One Eyed Jack your a man right and AFAIK you have said yourself before your not a feminist, why are you posting then?
    Feminism can be very relevant to problems which affect men. The 8:1 suicide rates, or the awful situation of male victims of sexual and domestic abuse for example. Issues which at least partly arise from the expectation for men to be strong and silent and women to be weak and talky, and the association of asking for help or being a victim with femininity and therefore the cultural construction of those things as inherently emasculating. That kills men, and it arises from the structures which feminism is designed to oppose.

    'Women don't chat me up and it's not fair that they can skate through life on their looks and I can't' is at the very least a badly misguided take on how feminism relates to men's issues though, and is not appropriate for this thread

    If feminism is about equality for all and men have an equal voice his points even if badly phrased should not be rejected because they focus on men.

    Do you see the hypocrisy and why I replied to the post I did.
    If you believe in legal equality and equality of opportunity and not to have gender prescribed careers or roles, I should be a feminist right?

    If a man posts as a feminist and suggests a way of achieving greater equality (which relies on a change on womens behavior), his post isn't attacked for its content they are told to stop posting because they are a man and are referencing their own life experience.

    Dammed if you do dammed if you don't and all from a space (the only space on boards AFAIK where a political opinion rather than personal has a protected space)

    edit: and I have never read high profile feminists articles about the gender education gap that don't frame it in terms of problems with male behaviour


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Walker Scruffy Trial




    If feminism is about equality for all and men have an equal voice his points even if badly phrased should not be rejected because they focus on men.



    If not just the phrasing, or even the fact that they focus on men, it's the content. It's setting up things like women being valued purely on their appearance as something that apparently victimises men, when that is a core issue that feminism has addressed for decades because it in fact victimises and oppresses women, it's a fundamental ignorance of or misunderstanding of the very basics of feminism. The problem of 'not being able to wait around for someone to shower me with gifts and pay my bills'...that's a men's problem that feminism should be trying to solve? Seriously?

    Women's behaviour is criticised constantly, demanded to change constantly. 'Here's a problem women have which involves men' 'Well women should change and it'd go away' 'Here's a problem men have which involves women' 'Well those women should change their behaviour'

    Patience runs real short real quick with that after you see it enough times.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭sullivlo


    MOD

    RDM_83 again - do not post in this thread again. Your lack of regard for the charter is laughable at this stage.

    All others - don't respond on thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,336 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Edit, just saw your mod warning there sullvio, deleted my own post.

    (takes me a bit of time to write replies :o)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭sullivlo


    MOD
    OEJ: the other poster has been told not to post on this thread again. All posters have been told not to respond to him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭Ectoplasm


    I need feminism because I am so, so sick and tired of female activism being branded as sexist. It's gotten ridiculous...a group of women take a photo to show how many of them are employed in a massively male dominated industry and rather than it being seen as an attempt to empower women who may have career aspirations in this MASSIVELY male dominated industry it is slammed for excluding male coworkers. Peak whataboutery.

    I'm sick and tired of idiots sneering at what they think are buzzwords, such as privelege or patriarchy, without understanding the fundamental meanings behind them. (I will accept that this is done by people on both 'sides' of the argument).

    I'm getting massively more narky in my old age (late 30s) and far less likely to put up with sexism dressed up in jokes or banter. FRO you're a dick.

    I genuinely feel like things are going backwards somehow and it's depressing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    I need feminism because I got called a whore by a middle aged woman in a pharmacy today.

    And because it annoyed me more that it came from a woman.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    Interesting article in Indo about celeb views on feminism yesterday, though reading it I thought a) how is this still a debate?? and b) Can I ban the apologetic sentence "I wouldn't call myself a feminist, I'm an equalist'" David Cameron, even used it recently. Why the reluctance for "The F word"? It's even used an accusatory insult. Equality is the very definition of feminism. Gloria Steinem herself states, "A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men.”

    There's no radical anti-men ulterior motive from myself or any other women/men I know who are proud to believe in feminism.

    Absolute entrenched siege mentality from so many threatened and insecure men, hugely prevalent here on boards. It's just sad really. As long as enough men feel somehow victimised like that, equality is a difficult task.

    a9276f5c4c5e55d22d9ede47a430a285.jpg


    Some "man hating" myth busting here that says it better than I ever could.

    Finished my rant.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    A friend of mine is a lefty/socialist/arty type (not sure why we're friends). Anyway, she fancied doing a bit of busking the other day where several men decided to interrupt her singing to hug her, ask her why she wasn't singing in her native tongue (French) and generally just harass her.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ Walker Scruffy Trial


    A friend of mine is a lefty/socialist/arty type (not sure why we're friends). Anyway, she fancied doing a bit of busking the other day where several men decided to interrupt her singing to hug her, ask her why she wasn't singing in her native tongue (French) and generally just harass her.

    Ugh, reminds me, I need feminism because I was cat called the other day and when I responded was told I was a 'rude cow'. Yeeeeah OK Mr Manners, sorry for ruining your unsolicited jolly jape about my tits, should have remembered it comes with the territory of Being Outside While Female.

    I also need feminism because I at some level feel like I should describe what I was wearing to back up the fact that I didn't 'deserve' or 'ask for' a stranger to roar sexual comments at me.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I need feminism because yesterday a person who had an appointment with me walked into my office and asked to see Dr (my) Lastname, clearly assuming it couldn't be me.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ugh, reminds me, I need feminism because I was cat called the other day and when I responded was told I was a 'rude cow'. Yeeeeah OK Mr Manners, sorry for ruining your unsolicited jolly jape about my tits, should have remembered it comes with the territory of Being Outside While Female.

    I also need feminism because I at some level feel like I should describe what I was wearing to back up the fact that I didn't 'deserve' or 'ask for' a stranger to roar sexual comments at me.

    I never really understood catcalling. What do these chaps think will happen exactly?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I never really understood catcalling. What do these chaps think will happen exactly?

    I don't think it's about us, I think it's about them inserting themselves into a girls life, however momentarily, and making their presence felt welcome or not. And most of them have to know it's not.

    Perhaps it's a dominance thing and they expect nothing other than grudging acknowledgment - but it's still acknowledgement.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Candie wrote: »
    I don't think it's about us, I think it's about them inserting themselves into a girls life, however momentarily, and making their presence felt welcome or not. And most of them have to know it's not.

    Perhaps it's a dominance thing and they expect nothing other than grudging acknowledgment - but it's still acknowledgement.

    I suppose that that would constitute as good an explanation as any. I still don't quite get it though.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭Sapphire


    I read somewhere recently that the reason women are uncomfortable about cat-calling like that is because we know that "you fcuking bitch" or a variant is on the tip of their tongue. And that basically nails it for me.

    I think it was in a discussion in relation to the DudesGreetingDudes hash tag

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/rachelzarrell/dudes-greeting-dudes?utm_term=.ucw5gmVK5#.mk1VdeaxV


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I suppose that that would constitute as good an explanation as any. I still don't quite get it though.

    I don't know if it's the right explanation, or even close to it. I just can't think of any other.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Candie wrote: »
    I don't know if it's the right explanation, or even close to it. I just can't think of any other.

    Fair enough. As I said, I certainly have nothing more insightful to offer as a counterargument.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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