Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Mooooo · 09-04-2021 9:46am

Grueller wrote: »

Only on my second year here so still learning. Results from the last collection were cows averaging 25.5 litres, 3.58 protein and 3.95 bf. The herd consists of 60% second calvers and 40% first calvers.
I am interested to hear what you all think.

That's good performance. At 28.5 litres 3.51p and 3.6bf. In terms of performance work on keeping the grass right for the next 2/3 months would be the main thing. Have low bf here every year very slow to get it up, will prob average 4.1 for the year. Started the second round the other night, but with cold weather a lot of covers at 1000 so gonna go to the heifer block over the road by day to graze off a reseed to stretch things out. Have a good bit of silage left so can keep sr low for a bit if cold spell persists and keep all grass in diet until growth takes off.
Did you join a discussion group grueller?

Mf310 · 09-04-2021 9:46am

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

whelan2 · 09-04-2021 9:48am

Effydral tablets are really good. Dissolve in 1 litre of water

Mooooo · 09-04-2021 10:11am

Don't wait, isolate straight away. In with effydral as Whelan said, while they are still drinking preferably. Disinfect the calf and or calving shed as well

jd_12345 · 09-04-2021 10:16am

Mf310 wrote: »

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

Go in with electrolytes at the earliest stage. If they stop drinking one feed max with stomach tube. Then it is time to call the vet for a drip- this is the surest and most effective way of getting that calf going again! Id rather they drink a small amount than tubed a large amount. If they get to that point its a long recovery. Isolate when they first stop wanting to drink. Take away any solid food too unless they're six weeks plus.

Base price · 09-04-2021 10:20am

As the others said isolate the calf. I turn off the drinkers and leave a bucket of electrolytes for it to drink.

tismesoitis · 09-04-2021 10:47am

Grueller wrote: »

Only on my second year here so still learning. Results from the last collection were cows averaging 25.5 litres, 3.58 protein and 3.95 bf. The herd consists of 60% second calvers and 40% first calvers.
I am interested to hear what you all think.

Started here spring 2020 aswell with 70 heifers. Have 92 milking now 2 3rd calvers 66 2nd calvers and 24 heifers. Went too hard on grass in march with zero grazing. Cows out by day and on grass in shed at night..i have a good bit to learn on the grass end yet. Now i'm nearly 2 weeks into my second rotation. Cows have plenty of grass by day but have to keep them in at night on silage with a bit of ration and straw mixed in. Feeding between 5 and 6 kgs meal on average. Litres 30.5 3.90% fat 3.27%protein.

Morris Moss · 09-04-2021 11:15am

Mf310 wrote: »

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

First thing is to stop stomach tubing them milk, the calf can't digest it properly, try and get them to drink it normally if you can, get the electrolytes into them, stomach tubing is the easiest and quickest way for that.

After that maybe take a dung sample to the vets, it's more than likely crypto from what you've said.

farisfat · 09-04-2021 12:12pm

Mf310 wrote: »

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

Never tube milk to a sick calve I'd say that's the only thing your doing wrong.
If a calve stops drinking milk tube some bactidiaryl or similar product for few days it's a feed and electrolyte in one.

K.G. · 09-04-2021 12:26pm

Mf310 wrote: »

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

As others have.said dont feed milk with a.stomach tube bar colostrum.in general i go by the age of infection for diagnosis
Less than a week -rota
Week to 3 weeks-crypto
21 days on- coccidiosis
The treatment for sick calves is generally simillar but why its important to diagnose the desease is the preventive treatment for other calves

Green&Red · 09-04-2021 1:00pm

Mf310 wrote: »

Went out this morning and the hereford calf iv been minding the last week panned out dead , scour but I had been giving him bimastat and electrolytes twice daily along with milk, 3rd calf to go with scour has only became a problem in the last 2 weeks with young calves. Whats yer protocol when ye have a calf with scour? At first signs i go in with a dose of bimastat and if that doesnt clear it i bring them out seperately and feed electrolytes. Usually when i bring them out seperately they dont want to suck so i tube 2L of milk wait a few jour then electrolytes then wait a few hours and tube 2l milk again for evening then wait a few hours. But all these feeds are done with stomach tube and i was talking to someone a couple of days ago and he said when a calf is coured badly that the stomach tube can suffocate them and I nearly think there is logic in what he is saying but then how are you meant to keep electrolytes/milk into them? I couldnt believe the hereford dead this morning because he was just coming around i was sure I had him out of the worst of it but no. Usually get a run of scour this time every year for the late calves. Any medicines or anything ye would recommend?

My uncle says little milk = little scour

If I see a calf thats loose I'll dilute their milk down for a day or maybe two. If its more serious I'd put them on water with electrolytes, as others have said never tube milk, plenty of water, three or four times a day. A calf's development isn't going to be stunted by a missed feed or two. Water will flush out most things.

With all calves I'd move out any dung from the shed on a daily basis. For younger calves especially, as they get to the end of their milk I'd top it up with warm water, you're making sure they are taking water on and keeping them well hydrated is a big help in keeping calves healthy

greysides · 09-04-2021 1:37pm

Morris Moss wrote: »

First thing is to stop stomach tubing them milk, the calf can't digest it properly, try and get them to drink it normally if you can, get the electrolytes into them, stomach tubing is the easiest and quickest way for that.

After that maybe take a dung sample to the vets, it's more than likely crypto from what you've said.

I'd agree totally with that.

farisfat wrote: »

Never tube milk to a sick calve I'd say that's the only thing your doing wrong.
If a calve stops drinking milk tube some bactidiaryl or similar product for few days it's a feed and electrolyte in one.

Don't be fooled by the labelling. There may be some energy value in it but it isn't enough on its own. Last time I saw Bactidiaryl, there were antibiotics in it. These are unlikely to be of benefit, may be of harm and certainly are promoting antibiotic resistance.
There are only a few specific instances were antibiotics should be given to a scouring calf:

* the calf is less than 5 days old
* the calf has a concurrent problem (joint ill, navel ill)
* the calf has a temperature (>102.5°F)
* the calf is down and out, drip territory

Green&Red wrote: »

My uncle says little milk = little scour

If I see a calf thats loose I'll dilute their milk down for a day or maybe two. If its more serious I'd put them on water with electrolytes, as others have said never tube milk, plenty of water, three or four times a day. A calf's development isn't going to be stunted by a missed feed or two. Water will flush out most things.

With all calves I'd move out any dung from the shed on a daily basis. For younger calves especially, as they get to the end of their milk I'd top it up with warm water, you're making sure they are taking water on and keeping them well hydrated is a big help in keeping calves healthy

Milk must form a curd in the abomasum to be digested properly. Diluting with water has a bad effect on this. Just give less milk.

Injuryprone · 09-04-2021 2:05pm

I get on great with replenolyte from the coop. The calves like it, there's no trouble getting them to take it. It's a full feed, 100% replenolyte for 2 days, mix 50/50 with milk for the next 2 days usually sees them right. Unless they're badly sick, I wouldn't give any more than 2 feed per day. It's simple to mix, no messing with sachets etc. And lastly, it's cheap, works out cheaper than milk even. My only complaint is that it only comes in 5l drums, they don't tend to go very far if you have a pen or 2 sick.

cosatron · 09-04-2021 2:26pm

synalux pink tablet is the best product ive ever used to treat scour. If the calf doesn't finish his feed of milk, i go with a tablet straight away and 9 times out of 10 the calf is sound at next feeding. if he doesn't improve from the pink tablet, he gets 2 rounds of almycin over the next 2 days and should be right as rain. I also keep the milk replacer into them, i haven't used electrolyte in years.

Timmaay · 09-04-2021 3:06pm

Dead calf here also, whole pen got scour suddenly, looking how fast he went downhill it must be crypto, so in with the parafor, thank fook only 3 or 4 a week calving the min and most the other calves shifted.

Grueller · 09-04-2021 4:31pm

Mooooo wrote: »

That's good performance. At 28.5 litres 3.51p and 3.6bf. In terms of performance work on keeping the grass right for the next 2/3 months would be the main thing. Have low bf here every year very slow to get it up, will prob average 4.1 for the year. Started the second round the other night, but with cold weather a lot of covers at 1000 so gonna go to the heifer block over the road by day to graze off a reseed to stretch things out. Have a good bit of silage left so can keep sr low for a bit if cold spell persists and keep all grass in diet until growth takes off.
Did you join a discussion group grueller?

The discussion groups here fell away when the kt programme ended. I have one lined up that will start this May with a private advisor.

straight · 09-04-2021 9:33pm

Why would the kerry suppliers have any interest in buying the milk processing business. They have a legally binding contract with a large plc which states that they will pay the leading milk price. So where is the gain in buying the factories, stores and feed mill?

Castlekeeper · 09-04-2021 10:44pm

straight wrote: »

Why would the kerry suppliers have any interest in buying the milk processing business. They have a legally binding contract with a large plc which states that they will pay the leading milk price. So where is the gain in buying the factories, stores and feed mill?

There's a thread of its own on that madness, egos, and other people's money.

straight · 11-04-2021 8:04pm

Feels like grass is getting tight here. What grass I have is getting burnt from frost and whats grazed is barely recovering. I've silage fields closed off now and I did a grass walk today. Computer says I've surplus grass.
Farm cover: 930, cover/LU: 260. Growth:28. Demand:60.

mahoney_j · 11-04-2021 9:02pm

straight wrote: »

Feels like grass is getting tight here. What grass I have is getting burnt from frost and whats grazed is barely recovering. I've silage fields closed off now and I did a grass walk today. Computer says I've surplus grass.
Farm cover: 930, cover/LU: 260. Growth:28. Demand:60.

Grass turning purple here and regrowths for last 7 days practically non existent ....but what grass is there is savage quality ,high in dm and literally no waste,always prefer be tight this time of year than looking at a wall of grass ,no need for panic temps on the up this week and things change fast this time of year

straight · 11-04-2021 10:18pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Grass turning purple here and regrowths for last 7 days practically non existent ....but what grass is there is savage quality ,high in dm and literally no waste,always prefer be tight this time of year than looking at a wall of grass ,no need for panic temps on the up this week and things change fast this time of year

As they say, if your not tight on grass now your doing something wrong

jaymla627 · 11-04-2021 10:59pm

straight wrote: »

As they say, if your not tight on grass now your doing something wrong

Assumption is the mother of all f***k ups, have a niggling feeling we are in for a 2018 kind of year weatherwise

Mooooo · 12-04-2021 12:15am

Afc 580 here, growth of 28. As mj said things could kick on fast. Feeding 6kgs all the time.

GrasstoMilk · 12-04-2021 7:04am

1/3 of our way through 2nd round here, started the 1st of April
Covers starting to drop away after current one but should pull through, will graze a paddock let of for 1st cut if need be

No silage in the diet, ad-lib grass and 5kg meal

orm0nd · 12-04-2021 9:54am

b/f taking it's annual nose dive

4 kgs of 16 % P .. access to quality baled silage after milking but showing very little interest

Gillespy · 12-04-2021 10:17am

Dropping by .04 in each of the last five tests. 3.68 now. Still on first round too. Will have them in unfertilzed first round this week so that might help. Yea-sacc is on the label of the nut they're on and have some nice oat straw out of them. Hope to keep it above 3.5 at least this year.

Acquiescence · 12-04-2021 10:35am

What kind of production is the 5 and 6kg sustaining, if ye don't mind me asking?

Mooooo · 12-04-2021 11:09am

About 29 litres here. Strip wires still up and held until milking is finished otherwise last few rows would be missing out. Walking a bit by day for these 3days to heifer ground to stretch things. 3.58bf

and 3.5p

Timmaay · 12-04-2021 11:28am

jaymla627 wrote: »

Assumption is the mother of all f***k ups, have a niggling feeling we are in for a 2018 kind of year weatherwise

Nothing will ever beat march 2018 in fairness, we were facing mid April with zero fodder leftover, this year there is a reasonable bit kept over. Last summer I was in full summer 2018 drought mode in mid June here, and overnight it all changed, and we basically had the most ideal wet and humid summers. Plan for the worst and hope for the best, and so far we are certainly ahead of ourselves from 2018.

Say my name · 12-04-2021 11:28am

Gillespy wrote: »

Dropping by .04 in each of the last five tests. 3.68 now. Still on first round too. Will have them in unfertilzed first round this week so that might help. Yea-sacc is on the label of the nut they're on and have some nice oat straw out of them. Hope to keep it above 3.5 at least this year.

I'm at 3.8 bf here. Grazing unfertilized ground too. Looking at the ground you'd think there's feck all there. But they're skinning the ground better than sheep.
No silage. 4kgs 16% nut.
I was complaining about low bf to a good grassland manager one time...response - graze tighter. :pac:
There must be something to it.

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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