All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

Mad about baa baas · 25-10-2020 6:01pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What's the point of the water break?

No water carrier going in during game as in pre covid times sharing between 3or 4 people often from both teams

Pogue eile · 25-10-2020 6:02pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What's the point of the water break?

Think about that one for a second

Dyr · 25-10-2020 6:05pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What's the point of the water break?

It allows the bollocks of a ref to bust up the play when your team are on top.

Mantis Toboggan · 25-10-2020 6:09pm

Mad about baa baas wrote: »

No water carrier going in during game as in pre covid times sharing between 3or 4 people often from both teams

You'd think they'd have a better solution breaks the flow of the game.

Pogue eile · 25-10-2020 6:11pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You'd think they'd have a better solution breaks the flow of the game.

Fergal Horgan has that all well in control, terrible terrible ref who thinks its all about him

Mantis Toboggan · 25-10-2020 6:14pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Fergal Horgan has that all well in control, terrible terrible ref who thinks its all about him

Horgan is a decent ref, loads of fouls but everyone of them are fouls.

Pogue eile · 25-10-2020 6:17pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Horgan is a decent ref, loads of fouls but everyone of them are fouls.

He is a joke of a ref, got an AI Final and thought he was the dogs boll*x. A good ref would even be noticed but that wouldn't be Horgan's style

benji79 · 25-10-2020 6:18pm

Horgan has been good. Spotted some sneaky little chops and flicks on hands, very tunned in reffing

Boom__Boom · 25-10-2020 6:24pm

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Interesting. Thanks for that link.

I note there hasn't been a single goal chance in this game. Any time a forward gets possession in a decent area he's fouled.

Edit: As soon as i posted that clare get a goal

Twas a massive own-goal (excuse the pun) that the black card was defeated.

Would improve the game immensely in terms of goal-scoring chances.

The amount of potential goal chances that were stopped in their tracks by backs fouling forwards any time there was the possibility of a goal in last year's championship was criminal.

I'd bet that a serious chunk of the goals that do come in the championship are going to be like the Clare goal today where there was no-one near the scorer to foul them or situations where the backs don't manage to foul successfully or where a foul happens and advantage is played.

Billy Ocean · 25-10-2020 6:25pm

Apart from his belief that a quick puckout is the work of the devil taught Horgan was fine

Pogue eile · 25-10-2020 6:29pm

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Apart from his belief that a quick puckout is the work of the devil taught Horgan was fine

Blows for every single little contact, he even blew once today when the ball was sailing over the bar, he will then pull someone for throwing the ball and ignore the next 10 such offences and the same with steps, no consistency.

I know Horgan for a long long time and he was an excellent referee when he started and was known for letting the game flow, but once he got on the county list he had gradually redressed year after year. Wouldn't even be in the top 4 refs in Tipp at the minute.

Chalk McHugh · 25-10-2020 6:31pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Horgan is a decent ref, loads of fouls but everyone of them are fouls.

I agree Horgan is a good referee.

tipp_tipp_tipp · 25-10-2020 6:41pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Blows for every single little contact, he even blew once today when the ball was sailing over the bar, he will then pull someone for throwing the ball and ignore the next 10 such offences and the same with steps, no consistency.

I know Horgan for a long long time and he was an excellent referee when he started and was known for letting the game flow, but once he got on the county list he had gradually redressed year after year. Wouldn't even be in the top 4 refs in Tipp at the minute.

Game last night night was reffed the same way. I assume he's towing the line in how the GAA want the games reffed.

PTH2009 · 25-10-2020 6:45pm

Limerick very impressive but Clare gave it a good go and will rebuild for the qualifiers no doubt

The qualifiers draw is a little odd in which both/one of Clare and Laois could get a bye to round 2 and the losing provincial semi finals will face off on the 1st Round

Qualifiers structure

R1(6 teams) - 1x Munster ans 1x Leinster team get a bye. 2 Munster teams vs 2 Leinster teams

R2- 2x Round 1 winners vs 2x bye teams

QF- 2x Round 2 winners vs 2x losing provincial finalists

Pogue eile · 25-10-2020 6:47pm

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Game last night night was reffed the same way. I assume he's towing the line in how the GAA want the games reffed.

Agreed, just think it is a shame, the reason Horgan came to prominence and so quickly became the number one ref in Tipp was his common sense approach to the game, assessors in the stands have a lot to answer for!

mountgomery burns · 25-10-2020 6:47pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Horgan is a decent ref, loads of fouls but everyone of them are fouls.

Wouldn't be a critic of him normally but far too many frees blown today.

Amazing scoring considering all the stoppages really.

tipp_tipp_tipp · 25-10-2020 6:51pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

Agreed, just think it is a shame, the reason Horgan came to prominence and so quickly became the number one ref in Tipp was his common sense approach to the game, assessors in the stands have a lot to answer for!

Yeah, both game this weekend were hard to watch. Hopefully it loosens up as the championship progresses. Can't blame him for towing the line though, if you want the big matches you've got to do it.

Mantis Toboggan · 25-10-2020 7:07pm

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Yeah, both game this weekend were hard to watch. Hopefully it loosens up as the championship progresses. Can't blame him for towing the line though, if you want the big matches you've got to do it.

Think the first few games will be like that as they'll have been told to be stricter etc, usually the league is more like than then it all goes out the window for championship.

Having said that lots of bad tackling in the match probably down to a lack of match practice but lots of high tackles, spare hand tackles etc.

The_Kew_Tour · 25-10-2020 7:29pm

Too easy for Limerick in the end

Gentleman Off The Pitch · 25-10-2020 8:04pm

Just checking, are any of the posters that said Horgan is a good ref not from Tipp ?

mountgomery burns · 25-10-2020 8:10pm

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Just checking, are any of the posters that said Horgan is a good ref not from Tipp ?

I don't think he's bad, and he's not popular in Waterford. He's better than several of his colleagues

But today was not his best day.

Girly Gal · 26-10-2020 9:14am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Limerick very impressive but Clare gave it a good go and will rebuild for the qualifiers no doubt

The qualifiers draw is a little odd in which both/one of Clare and Laois could get a bye to round 2 and the losing provincial semi finals will face off on the 1st Round

Qualifiers structure

R1(6 teams) - 1x Munster ans 1x Leinster team get a bye. 2 Munster teams vs 2 Leinster teams

R2- 2x Round 1 winners vs 2x bye teams

QF- 2x Round 2 winners vs 2x losing provincial finalists

I think with the year that's in it and the limited time the championship should be straight knockout like the football. The limerick v clare game should have just been the league final and play the championship game later. The game yesterday will stand to Limerick for next week's game with Tipp, wouldn't be surprised if we see those two in the final later in the year.

benji79 · 26-10-2020 9:20am

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Just checking, are any of the posters that said Horgan is a good ref not from Tipp ?

I’m from Cork, think he’s an excellent ref

terryrogers · 26-10-2020 10:52am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Limerick very impressive but Clare gave it a good go and will rebuild for the qualifiers no doubt

The qualifiers draw is a little odd in which both/one of Clare and Laois could get a bye to round 2 and the losing provincial semi finals will face off on the 1st Round

Qualifiers structure

R1(6 teams) - 1x Munster ans 1x Leinster team get a bye. 2 Munster teams vs 2 Leinster teams

R2- 2x Round 1 winners vs 2x bye teams

QF- 2x Round 2 winners vs 2x losing provincial finalists

According to Wikipedia Clare and Laois will have to play round 1 of the qualifiers and 2 of the 4 provincial semi final losers will be drawn to play them. 1 Leinster and 1 Munster team will get a bye to round 2, awaiting the winners of round 1.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2020 10:55am

Girly Gal wrote: »

I think with the year that's in it and the limited time the championship should be straight knockout like the football. The limerick v clare game should have just been the league final and play the championship game later. The game yesterday will stand to Limerick for next week's game with Tipp, wouldn't be surprised if we see those two in the final later in the year.

You can't compare the 2 championships. The hurling on has 10 teams and about 8 think they can win so a backdoor is very different to football where you are dragging about 20 teams worth of cannon fodder around the country for meaningless qualifiers

conor05 · 26-10-2020 11:34am

breezy1985 wrote: »

You can't compare the 2 championships. The hurling on has 10 teams and about 8 think they can win so a backdoor is very different to football where you are dragging about 20 teams worth of cannon fodder around the country for meaningless qualifiers

In my eyes only Kerry or Dublin can win Sam Maguire.

Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal and Cork a decent supporting cast with the other 26 counties only making up the numbers.
And some of the lower level teams are barely fit to be in the qualifiers.

The hurling will be very competitive this year with Tipp, Limerick, Wexford, Kilkenny, Cork, Galway all fancying their chances of winning the Liam McCarthy

Girly Gal · 26-10-2020 11:49am

conor05 wrote: »

In my eyes only Kerry or Dublin can win Sam Maguire.

Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal and Cork a decent supporting cast with the other 26 counties only making up the numbers.
And some of the lower level teams are barely fit to be in the qualifiers.

The hurling will be very competitive this year with Tipp, Limerick, Wexford, Kilkenny, Cork, Galway all fancying their chances of winning the Liam McCarthy

Limerick and Tipp are head and shoulders above the rest, Wexford, Kilkenny and Cork will be competitive but don't have enough quality to beat Limerick and Tipp if those two get close to top form, Galway are in a mess and l don't see them challenging this year.

mountgomery burns · 26-10-2020 12:06pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

Limerick and Tipp are head and shoulders above the rest, Wexford, Kilkenny and Cork will be competitive but don't have enough quality to beat Limerick and Tipp if those two get close to top form, Galway are in a mess and l don't see them challenging this year.

I've seen the same sort of stuff written in 2013, about Kilkenny in 2016, Tipp in 2017, Galway in 2018, Limerick in 2019.

This year of all years interrupted prep, differing weather conditions and indeed another curve ball in the form of 14 days isolation could have a major bearing on the championship. I would not be calling it a two horse race by any stretch of the imagination.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2020 12:11pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I've seen the same sort of stuff written in 2013, about Kilkenny in 2016, Tipp in 2017, Galway in 2018, Limerick in 2019.

This year of all years interrupted prep, differing weather conditions and indeed another curve ball in the form of 14 days isolation could have a major bearing on the championship. I would not be calling it a two horse race by any stretch of the imagination.

One of the 2 will probably slip up but catching both on off days will be tough so good chance one will win the AI. It almost happened that both lost last year though so I agree the margin is too tight to say it's a two horse race

Vinnie222 · 26-10-2020 12:11pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I've seen the same sort of stuff written in 2013, about Kilkenny in 2016, Tipp in 2017, Galway in 2018, Limerick in 2019.

This year of all years interrupted prep, differing weather conditions and indeed another curve ball in the form of 14 days isolation could have a major bearing on the championship. I would not be calling it a two horse race by any stretch of the imagination.

If anything it will suit the counties with strength in depth which are Limk Tipp and Kilkenny

Joe_ Public · 26-10-2020 12:19pm

Don't know how wexford are shaping up but on basis of last years all ireland i definitely wouldn't say they are a million miles off the top.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2020 12:20pm

Vinnie222 wrote: »

If anything it will suit the counties with strength in depth which are Limk Tipp and Kilkenny

Do KK have strength in depth these days. I think they are barely top 5 in the first team so don't know how good the rest of the panel are

Girly Gal · 26-10-2020 12:30pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I've seen the same sort of stuff written in 2013, about Kilkenny in 2016, Tipp in 2017, Galway in 2018, Limerick in 2019.

This year of all years interrupted prep, differing weather conditions and indeed another curve ball in the form of 14 days isolation could have a major bearing on the championship. I would not be calling it a two horse race by any stretch of the imagination.

Every year people say 5 or 6 teams can win it, when realistically only 2 or 3 ever have a serious chance in any year. Kilkenny and Tipp have dominated the last 2 decades. 2013 has been proven to be an outlier year and a year like that won't happen again for years. Galway were well due a win in 2017 having been next best to Kilkenny and Tipp for most of the previous decade and were exhausted by the time 2018 final came along where Limerick played extremely well and should have won by more, complacency caught limerick out last year against Kilkenny.
Outside of Kilkenny I can't see anyone seriously challenging Tipp and Limerick. Wexford, Cork and Waterford are limited and I don't see Galway challenging this year at all. The only thing that could upset this is if there is a covid outbreak within a squad, but, if that happens it would seriously undermine the whole championship.

mountgomery burns · 26-10-2020 1:06pm

2013 was not the outlier you think it was.

Since that year inclusive there has been 7 championships, Clare, Galway and Limerick winning one each. They were winning their first all irelands in 16 yrs, 29 yrs and 45 yrs respectively.

Cork were a puck of a ball from beating Clare in 2013 and Limerick in 2018. Clare themselves almost made the final in 2018, they were the only team to beat Limerick on the field of play that year. Waterford were a puck of a ball from an AI in 2017.

There's miles on the clock in Tipp and some immense players, some of the best I've seen, won't be around much longer. Kilkenny are rebuilding, no AI in the last 4 championship for the 1st time since 2000. They'll be back competing alright and win one before long but the days of Shefflin et al dominance is over.

So you're right on one thing, 6 teams cannot win an all ireland in a given year. Only one team can. But there's 7 teams this year who can have a big say in where the cup rests when all is said and done.

C__MC · 26-10-2020 1:09pm

Limerick are going to be hard to stop
They would be going for 3 in a row only for a bad 15 minutes last year
I cant see tipp beating them, limerick gave tipp a huge beating last year

Joe_ Public · 26-10-2020 1:23pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

2013 was not the outlier you think it was.

Since that year inclusive there has been 7 championships, Clare, Galway and Limerick winning one each. They were winning their first all irelands in 16 yrs, 29 yrs and 45 yrs respectively.

Cork were a puck of a ball from beating Clare in 2013 and Limerick in 2018. Clare themselves almost made the final in 2018, they were the only team to beat Limerick on the field of play that year. Waterford were a puck of a ball from an AI in 2017.

There's miles on the clock in Tipp and some immense players, some of the best I've seen, won't be around much longer. Kilkenny are rebuilding, no AI in the last 4 championship for the 1st time since 2000. They'll be back competing alright and win one before long but the days of Shefflin et al dominance is over.

So you're right on one thing, 6 teams cannot win an all ireland in a given year. Only one team can. But there's 7 teams this year who can have a big say in where the cup rests when all is said and done.

Good post and agree with most of it. The tipp miles on the clock thing is another thing I've been hearing and reading for years though. Still not really that convinced by it, especially if you look how they finished against a supposedly younger and fitter wexford team last year and with a man down to boot.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2020 1:26pm

C__MC wrote: »

Limerick are going to be hard to stop
They would be going for 3 in a row only for a bad 15 minutes last year
I cant see tipp beating them, limerick gave tipp a huge beating last year

Don't worry we have a history of stopping ourselves in Limerick

Girly Gal · 26-10-2020 1:29pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

2013 was not the outlier you think it was.

Since that year inclusive there has been 7 championships, Clare, Galway and Limerick winning one each. They were winning their first all irelands in 16 yrs, 29 yrs and 45 yrs respectively.

Cork were a puck of a ball from beating Clare in 2013 and Limerick in 2018. Clare themselves almost made the final in 2018, they were the only team to beat Limerick on the field of play that year. Waterford were a puck of a ball from an AI in 2017.

There's miles on the clock in Tipp and some immense players, some of the best I've seen, won't be around much longer. Kilkenny are rebuilding, no AI in the last 4 championship for the 1st time since 2000. They'll be back competing alright and win one before long but the days of Shefflin et al dominance is over.

So you're right on one thing, 6 teams cannot win an all ireland in a given year. Only one team can. But there's 7 teams this year who can have a big say in where the cup rests when all is said and done.

There aren't 7 teams who have a serious chance of winning the all Ireland, 3 at a push, the rest are much of a muchness and might on their day cause a shock, but, won't be able to do it over 2/3 games.
The semi finalists from 2013 didn't really do much in the all Ireland championship in the following 2 or 3 seasons, the Limerick team of 2018 was completely different to the 2013 team.

C__MC · 26-10-2020 1:29pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Don't worry we have a history of stopping ourselves in Limerick

I dont know kiely is building something there
Cork potentially the only team to hurt ye and I dont know why because ye are a better team but they always seem to put it up to this limerick team

Billy Ocean · 26-10-2020 1:32pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Do KK have strength in depth these days. I think they are barely top 5 in the first team so don't know how good the rest of the panel are

Kilkenny are definitely overrated, yes there a top 5 or 6 team at the same level as the likes of wexford or galway but talk in some sections of the media of them definitely being a top 3 team, having possibly the best panel in the country are off the mark in my view, seen people suggesting a competitive showing would be a decent effort for Dublin next Saturday which is crazy stuff to me.

Billy Ocean · 26-10-2020 1:34pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

There aren't 7 teams who have a serious chance of winning the all Ireland, 3 at a push, the rest are much of a muchness and might on their day cause a shock, but, won't be able to do it over 2/3 games.
The semi finalists from 2013 didn't really do much in the all Ireland championship in the following 2 or 3 seasons, the Limerick team of 2018 was completely different to the 2013 team.

have to disagree if there was a year anything is possible this is the year, so many potential spanner in the works for different teams too.

Mad about baa baas · 26-10-2020 1:38pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Do KK have strength in depth these days. I think they are barely top 5 in the first team so don't know how good the rest of the panel are

I would say kilkenny have plenty of lads with similar abilities albeit not the stars of previous years.. I think if they avoid tipp they will have a great chance..young Tommy Walsh..Wallace ballyhale young guns..billy ryan..Donnelly lawlor ..conor Delaney.. will be core of the next great kilkenny team hopefully

Chalk McHugh · 26-10-2020 2:12pm

Fancy Limerick myself but any of Galway, Kilkenny, Cork or Tipp could win it imo. Don't think Wexford, Waterford or Dublin have the firepower to do it. Clare are as good as gone after yesterday.

Utopia Parkway · 26-10-2020 2:25pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

Limerick and Tipp are head and shoulders above the rest, Wexford, Kilkenny and Cork will be competitive but don't have enough quality to beat Limerick and Tipp if those two get close to top form, Galway are in a mess and l don't see them challenging this year.

How are Galway in a mess? The last two semi competitive games we saw them in they beat Cork and absolutely hammered Tipp. Not that I would make them favourites up with Limerick and Tipp or anything but I haven't seen much evidence that they are in a mess either.

Pogue eile · 26-10-2020 2:29pm

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Just checking, are any of the posters that said Horgan is a good ref not from Tipp ?

mountgomery burns wrote: »

I don't think he's bad, and he's not popular in Waterford. He's better than several of his colleagues

But today was not his best day.

benji79 wrote: »

I’m from Cork, think he’s an excellent ref

That didn't go quite to plan Gentleman! And I was the one who began the criticism and I am a Tipp man, better look next time

Pogue eile · 26-10-2020 2:32pm

C__MC wrote: »

Limerick are going to be hard to stop
They would be going for 3 in a row only for a bad 15 minutes last year
I cant see tipp beating them, limerick gave tipp a huge beating last year

In a meaningless game where both teams were already progressing regardless?

Tipp had already beaten Limerick two weeks earlier, again in a meaningless game.

mountgomery burns · 26-10-2020 3:08pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

There aren't 7 teams who have a serious chance of winning the all Ireland, 3 at a push, the rest are much of a muchness and might on their day cause a shock, but, won't be able to do it over 2/3 games.
The semi finalists from 2013 didn't really do much in the all Ireland championship in the following 2 or 3 seasons, the Limerick team of 2018 was completely different to the 2013 team.

I won't get into my view on who'll do what this year yet, I'm just saying it's not wise writing teams off this early and has been found out time and again. It's a logic that has a hangover from the 2000-2009 decade, the least competitive decade in hurling history (only 3 winners in that decade, the only time that's ever occurred as far as I can tell).

You'd never have called Limerick as champions in 2018 given they had scarcely won a match in the previous 3 championships.

Tipp didn't win a game in 2018, nobody was expecting them to win all but one last year.

There's huge talent there between them don't get me wrong, but whoever gets beaten next weekend will have to win 4-5 games on the bounce to win an all Ireland.

Whoever loses that match is really up against it.

breezy1985 · 26-10-2020 3:12pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

In a meaningless game where both teams were already progressing regardless?

Tipp had already beaten Limerick two weeks earlier, again in a meaningless game.

Ya there really hasn't been a proper arses on the line game between the two since the first round of Munster in 2018 and Tipp were a bit of a joke that year. Even this weekend no one is in danger of going out but if they were to meet again later on it could be a real epic or real nasty

Pogue eile · 26-10-2020 3:26pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya there really hasn't been a proper arses on the line game between the two since the first round of Munster in 2018 and Tipp were a bit of a joke that year. Even this weekend no one is in danger of going out but if they were to meet again later on it could be a real epic or real nasty

To be honest I am a little bit indifferent to next weekend, on one side I am sure Sheedy may well have taken the view of 4 games, thats all 4 games and we are champions, but on the other side of the coin is it is invariably incredibly difficult to beat the same team twice and I would say there is a very strong chance that the two will meet again, not a given of course but if you were a betting man etc.

Yesterday will certainly stand to Limerick and one only has to look at the contrast between their first half and their second half, if Tipp have a similar 'bedding in' period then the game will be over after 20 mins. However on the flip side Limerick didnt really get to find out anything about their Full Back line yesterday and if John McGrath, Seamie Callanan, Bubbles/Jake Morris are on song it could be a goal fest.

It would be great to see both teams go hell for leather - imagine the Limerick half forward line v Tipp half back line going at it full belt! - but I suspect there will be an element of shadow boxing going on from one or probably both teams.

Mantis Toboggan · 26-10-2020 3:31pm

Limerick the obvious favourites, they barely got past 2nd gear yesterday and won by 10 points. But I wouldnt be ruling out the likes of Galway, Kilkenny, Tipperary & wexford.

You need dogs for winter hurling and kilkenny have plenty of them, remember they took down limerick last year and are more than capable of doing it again.

All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

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