All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

breezy1985

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

As others have said Sheedy didn't go back to Tipp to win a Munster title but the idea he flogged them the Friday before a Munster final is absolutely ridiculous.

He didn't go back to throw them either. It's absolute BS to think a team went out not caring about beating Limerick in a Munster final.

I get that when things went bad Tipp probably didn't feel the do or die adrenaline coming on but if of course they would rather win

Chalk McHugh

breezy1985 wrote: »

He didn't go back to throw them either. It's absolute BS to think a team went out not caring about beating Limerick in a Munster final.

I get that when things went bad Tipp probably didn't feel the do or die adrenaline coming on but if of course they would rather win

Of course they wanted to win a Munster final. They were just well beaten by a stronger team on the day.

Rasputin11

The Tipp first 15 played the subs the week of the Munster Final in training, the subs bet them well. The team was struggling for form for a couple of weeks.
There was similar talk after Cork hammered us in 2010, that they trained the morning of the game. I had a friend on the panel that year and he laughed at the rumours that went around.

Bonniedog

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Kilkenny are definitely overrated, yes there a top 5 or 6 team at the same level as the likes of wexford or galway but talk in some sections of the media of them definitely being a top 3 team, having possibly the best panel in the country are off the mark in my view, seen people suggesting a competitive showing would be a decent effort for Dublin next Saturday which is crazy stuff to me.

Having seen a fair few club games in both counties, and having watched Dublin against Laois, Kilkenny still a bit ahead.

More than most years, the club championship is a good guide to what to what to expect, and Kilkenny playing with a far better hand than Dublin.

It was easy win over Laois but Dublin still have same flaws of sloppiness and lack of intensity at key periods, which was evident in league. Have only ever shown it since Anthony in the Galway game last year.

You can afford to go asleep for periods against Laois. similar lapses against the stripey lads at weekend and it will be over by half time.

Positive from our perspective is that we have a freetaker in Burke now who is also effective from play whereas Treacy had lost that part.

blackspot91

Pogue eile wrote: »

Why did all those things need to happen for him to be right?

I am not saying that Tipp deliberately lost a game or threw it, but it was not the ultimate target and they were trained accordingly, this I know for a fact. Even without knowing anything about the inner workings of the Tipp training regime, just watch the Munster Final again, Tipp had a very distinctive style of hurling all year and used it in 7 of their 8 games, in the Munster final they had 6 forwards in orthodox positions and continued to lump long high ball in on top of them.

And the suggestion that Noel McGrath who was substituted 25 mins earlier was crying at the final whistle is farcical

Maybe he wasn't full blown crying but I definitely remember the camera being on him after and he was clearly very disappointed.

Fairly ironic that a person who thinks a team would go half arsed in a munster final against a big rival can throw the word 'farcical' at someone else.

Obviously the all Ireland is bigger than a Munster but that does not mean it means nothing to them.

Also, winning a Munster is essentially winning an all Ireland quarter final so its a step closer to your goal so there's another gaping flaw in your logic.

Chalk McHugh

We'll see where Kilkenny are at on Saturday but one thing is for sure, there will be 15 quality hurlers in black and amber, battle hardened from a high quality club scene and trained to excellence by one of the games greatest ever managers. Dublin will benefit from the game v Laois but it's a different ball game v Kilkenny. Every score will be that bit more hard earned and any mistakes will be punished more severely. I hope to see Dublin being very competetive and wouldn't rule out a 'shock' win so lets wait and see.

Dyr

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

We'll see where Kilkenny are at on Saturday but one thing is for sure, there will be 15 quality hurlers in black and amber, battle hardened from a high quality club scene and trained to excellence by one of the games greatest ever managers. Dublin will benefit from the game v Laois but it's a different ball game v Kilkenny. Every score will be that bit more hard earned and any mistakes will be punished more severely. I hope to see Dublin being very competetive and wouldn't rule out a 'shock' win so lets wait and see.

Laois weren't up to our standard physically this year, KK will match us and more

Be interesting to see if these Dublin lads perform better without a crowd, they have a history of becoming gunshy when the heat is on.

GS11

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was thinking on the rules regarding quick puckouts (and kickouts in football)

Does anyone think that instead of the current situation where the ref restarts play with a whistle for puck-outs/kickouts, the default situation should be that a goalie should be free to restart play as quick as they like, unless there is a situation like an injury or a sub where the play needs to be stopped?

I was thinking the same thing after watching a lot of Club games, when they happened the refs sometimes let them go, mostly called them back, agree the game is fast enough but there's a high chance you are after conceding a score and it would allow you to choose to go quick or not, at the moment it helps the team who have scored, allows them to reset.

breezy1985

GS11 wrote: »

I was thinking the same thing after watching a lot of Club games, when they happened the refs sometimes let them go, mostly called them back, agree the game is fast enough but there's a high chance you are after conceding a score and it would allow you to choose to go quick or not, at the moment it helps the team who have scored, allows them to reset.

It's already fast enough I don't see a problem with giving the players 2 seconds of a breather

C__MC

Kilkenny are not the force of the noughties but they are extremely competitive and bring all the attributes needed to compete at this level
Three out of the last four winners who beat the cats won Liam Mc C, the other Waterford made the final.

breezy1985

C__MC wrote: »

Kilkenny are not the force of the noughties but they are extremely competitive and bring all the attributes needed to compete at this level
Three out of the last four winners who beat the cats won Liam Mc C, the other Waterford made the final.

"they are extremely competitive and bring all the attributes needed to compete at this level "

You could say that about any of the teams outside of Dublin and Laois. They haven't really looked good enough to win in the last 3/4 years but that's only an issue given their own high standards

Bonniedog

Bambi wrote: »

Laois weren't up to our standard physically this year, KK will match us and more

Be interesting to see if these Dublin lads perform better without a crowd, they have a history of becoming gunshy when the heat is on.

Not sure it is even that. There was a definite feeling that Laois were going to be a bit of a pushover which was not helped by management going to see the Tipp match instead of the McDonagh final! Brennan must have been laughing all the way home when he heard that.

I reckon its to do with game plan. Shown again against Wexford in league earlier when they retreated when they had a cushion as if they could defend the lead. Suicidal tactics in hurling.

There is no shortage of balls when it comes down to a battle as they showed against Galway, and if anything the crowd was an asset that night.

After nearly 50 years, however, i am beyond guessing what the fk they might do on any given day

mountgomery burns

C__MC wrote: »

Kilkenny are not the force of the noughties but they are extremely competitive and bring all the attributes needed to compete at this level
Three out of the last four winners who beat the cats won Liam Mc C, the other Waterford made the final.

They have failed to win Leinster the last 3 years in a row.

Since Cody took charge there has been only 6 occasions where they have failed to win Leinster, they only won the all Ireland once from these. When they have won Leinster it's 10/15.

They need to start winning Leinster again first, and the rise in competition there accompanied by an inevitable decline in their unparalleled standard is making it much harder for them to win All Irelands now. They will get there again of course.

Pogue eile

breezy1985 wrote: »

He didn't go back to throw them either. It's absolute BS to think a team went out not caring about beating Limerick in a Munster final.

I get that when things went bad Tipp probably didn't feel the do or die adrenaline coming on but if of course they would rather win

To be fair I never suggested that they threw they threw the game or indeed that they didn't care, merely pointed out that it was not a priority.

A hurling team cannot peak from 11 May to the 18 August, its just not possible, they were on a training programe where it was specifically designed for them to peak for the start of the Round Robin, to qualify from Munster and to peak again in July.

blackspot91 wrote: »

Maybe he wasn't full blown crying but I definitely remember the camera being on him after and he was clearly very disappointed.

Fairly ironic that a person who thinks a team would go half arsed in a munster final against a big rival can throw the word 'farcical' at someone else.

Obviously the all Ireland is bigger than a Munster but that does not mean it means nothing to them.

Also, winning a Munster is essentially winning an all Ireland quarter final so its a step closer to your goal so there's another gaping flaw in your logic.

Noel McGrath as I said was taken off with 25 mins to go and the man has 7 Munster medals in total and you expect us firstly to believe that he was in tears and secondly as Limerick were winning a Munster title the camera man was on a sub crying - just admit that you made it up!!

A bit like Alanis Morrisette there, not really sure you know what irony is!

Winning Munster is not winning a AI QF at all, the Munster Championship is a qualifying tournament for the AI nothing more nothing less, anyone thinking anything else is living in the past - if you don't believe me please check out the record of Munster Champions in the AI, you might get a bit of a surprise, who knows you might even cry!!

breezy1985

Pogue eile wrote: »

To be fair I never suggested that they threw they threw the game or indeed that they didn't care, merely pointed out that it was not a priority.

Do you think it was Limericks priority. Do you not think Limerick were always looking further ahead too. Sheedy isn't some mastermind who figured out you don't need to win Munster to win the AI.

They were beat that day because another team was better and there's no hidden meaning or story behind it

Pogue eile

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was thinking on the rules regarding quick puckouts (and kickouts in football)

Does anyone think that instead of the current situation where the ref restarts play with a whistle for puck-outs/kickouts, the default situation should be that a goalie should be free to restart play as quick as they like, unless there is a situation like an injury or a sub where the play needs to be stopped?

It's a tough one. To give an extreme example - the attacking team is awarded a 21 Meter free, as soon as the ball crosses the crossbar the goalie launches a puck out down to the opposing 21 - the referee is now 100 yards or more away from play and is in no position to call any possible free etc.

The problem with the puck outs are that it is very much up to the individual referee, most will allow a quick puck out of the ball went wide but if there was a score you must wait for the whistle, that is the traditional approach but there are so many different approaches now. As long as the referee explains to the keepers at the start and applies it consistently then it should be that much of an issue. The infuriating thing is when 50 mins into a game the referee suddenly pulls for it after letting it go all day.

I was the first to have a go at Horgan's handling of the game on Sunday but to be fair to him, that is one area I couldnt fault him, he lay down a marker very early that after a score you had to wait for the whistle and he was consistent throughout, the Clare keeper was a little slow to get the message was the biggest problem, I mean how many times did he need to be told.

Pogue eile

breezy1985 wrote: »

Pogue eile wrote: »

To be fair I never suggested that they threw they threw the game or indeed that they didn't care, merely pointed out that it was not a priority.

/quote]

Do you think it was Limericks priority. Do you not think Limerick were always looking further ahead too. Sheedy isn't some mastermind who figured out you don't need to win Munster to win the AI.

They were beat that day because another team was better and there's no hidden meaning or story behind it

I didn't say that it was Limericks priority, that would go against everything else I have said

I said that the bare result and people holding it up as evidence of Limerick having some sort of advantage over Tipp is silly.

I'm not really sure where the confusion is coming from or why Limerick people are getting so worked up, its in no way shape or form a slight against Limerick, but anyone who doesn't accept that the Munster Championship is merely a stepping stone is deluding themselves or living in the past.

breezy1985

Pogue eile wrote: »

]

I didn't say that it was Limericks priority, that would go against everything else I have said

I said that the bare result and people holding it up as evidence of Limerick having some sort of advantage over Tipp is silly.

I'm not really sure where the confusion is coming from or why Limerick people are getting so worked up, its in no way shape or form a slight against Limerick, but anyone who doesn't accept that the Munster Championship is merely a stepping stone is deluding themselves or living in the past.

I agree about Munster and that it didn't reveal anything about either team.

Sorry if I misread you but we have been getting this narrative for a year now. First before the 2019 league people were waiting for proof that 2018 was a fluke then we were naive for battering everyone in the league and it would be a problem come Munster. After that we were fools for winning Munster.

But of course if KK were beating the arse off everyone it's because Cody all or nothing winning mentality or if Tipp had won it would be Sheedys ruthless nature.

I just hate narratives. Hurling is full of close teams and sometimes one side wins and the next day might lose

Pogue eile

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree about Munster and that it didn't reveal anything about either team.

Sorry if I misread you but we have been getting this narrative for a year now. First before the 2019 league people were waiting for proof that 2018 was a fluke then we were naive for battering everyone in the league and it would be a problem come Munster. After that we were fools for winning Munster.

But of course if KK were beating the arse off everyone it's because Cody all or nothing winning mentality or if Tipp had won it would be Sheedys ruthless nature.

I just hate narratives. Hurling is full of close teams and sometimes one side wins and the next day might lose

I think ultimately we are on the same page, just came to it from a different route

My own personal view is that Sunday wont be the last Tipp v Limerick match this year, but who knows, it is such a unique set of circumstances that it is almost set up for a shock.

Have a fiver on a Mayo and Waterford AI double :D:D

C__MC

Limerick definitely favourites IMO
Also beat tipp in 2018 quite comfortable

PTH2009

unreal weekend of Hurling coming up 4 provincial semi finals

Super Saturday
Cork vs Waterford- 3.30pm (Sky Sports Mix)
Kilkenny vs Dublin- 3.45pm (GAAGO)
Galway vs Wexford- 6.15pm (RTE)

Sunday
Limerick vs Tipp-4pm (RTE)

lim4ev

C__MC wrote: »

Limerick definitely favourites IMO
Also beat tipp in 2018 quite comfortable

Even with 2 of our full back line injured? With them defo favourites but without? Not so sure. I think anyone of the top 6 or 7 can win it out as injuries will be a factor too at this time of the yr i hope we've paid our dues on that front.

blackspot91

Pogue eile wrote: »

To be fair I never suggested that they threw they threw the game or indeed that they didn't care, merely pointed out that it was not a priority.

A hurling team cannot peak from 11 May to the 18 August, its just not possible, they were on a training programe where it was specifically designed for them to peak for the start of the Round Robin, to qualify from Munster and to peak again in July.



Noel McGrath as I said was taken off with 25 mins to go and the man has 7 Munster medals in total and you expect us firstly to believe that he was in tears and secondly as Limerick were winning a Munster title the camera man was on a sub crying - just admit that you made it up!!

A bit like Alanis Morrisette there, not really sure you know what irony is!

Winning Munster is not winning a AI QF at all, the Munster Championship is a qualifying tournament for the AI nothing more nothing less, anyone thinking anything else is living in the past - if you don't believe me please check out the record of Munster Champions in the AI, you might get a bit of a surprise, who knows you might even cry!!

I already said he might not have been crying but the camera did go to him because he was on the pitch looking absolutely sickened as fans ran around him, he's not just some sub.. he's Noel McGrath! I didn't make it up.

If you win a Munster final you're into an AI semi final (that's the one after a quarter final) if you lose, you have to play a quarter final, another straight knock out game you have to get through to reach your goal.

Talk of tactically going through the back door is just for fans and pundits, no manager entertains it.. they want to win through the front door everytime.

blackspot91

Pogue eile wrote: »

To be fair I never suggested that they threw they threw the game or indeed that they didn't care, merely pointed out that it was not a priority.

A hurling team cannot peak from 11 May to the 18 August, its just not possible, they were on a training programe where it was specifically designed for them to peak for the start of the Round Robin, to qualify from Munster and to peak again in July.



Noel McGrath as I said was taken off with 25 mins to go and the man has 7 Munster medals in total and you expect us firstly to believe that he was in tears and secondly as Limerick were winning a Munster title the camera man was on a sub crying - just admit that you made it up!!

A bit like Alanis Morrisette there, not really sure you know what irony is!

Winning Munster is not winning a AI QF at all, the Munster Championship is a qualifying tournament for the AI nothing more nothing less, anyone thinking anything else is living in the past - if you don't believe me please check out the record of Munster Champions in the AI, you might get a bit of a surprise, who knows you might even cry!!

Also: Ironic.. happening in a way contrary to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.
The irony was instead of your point being called farcical, it was you who ended up using the word. Fits fine to me ðŸ˜

Pogue eile

blackspot91 wrote: »

I already said he might not have been crying but the camera did go to him because he was on the pitch looking absolutely sickened as fans ran around him, he's not just some sub.. he's Noel McGrath! I didn't make it up.

If you win a Munster final you're into an AI semi final (that's the one after a quarter final) if you lose, you have to play a quarter final, another straight knock out game you have to get through to reach your goal.

Talk of tactically going through the back door is just for fans and pundits, no manager entertains it.. they want to win through the front door everytime.

My sincerest of apologies, I had no idea that you spoke on behalf of all the managers, I hope you can accept my apology.

What is the record of Munster Champions in the AI series btw?

Utopia Parkway

PTH2009 wrote: »

unreal weekend of Hurling coming up 4 provincial semi finals

Super Saturday
Cork vs Waterford- 3.30pm (Sky Sports Mix)
Kilkenny vs Dublin- 3.45pm (GAAGO)
Galway vs Wexford- 6.15pm (RTE)

Sunday
Limerick vs Tipp-4pm (RTE)

Mad to have two games clashing like that.

Pogue eile

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Mad to have two games clashing like that.

There are 20 Senior Championship Hurling and football games this weekend, unavoidable to have clashes unfortunately.

mountgomery burns

Pogue eile wrote: »

There are 20 Senior Championship Hurling and football games this weekend, unavoidable to have clashes unfortunately.

It would probably have made sense to have the KK game on at 2pm Sunday on GAA Go though.

You'd get a decent portion of the crowd watching Cork v Waterford to pay the 5r and watch the game I'd reckon. Splitting them harms revenue, and it wouldn't affect the TV slots.

Pogue eile

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It would probably have made sense to have the KK game on at 2pm Sunday on GAA Go though.

You'd get a decent portion of the crowd watching Cork v Waterford to pay the 5r and watch the game I'd reckon. Splitting them harms revenue, and it wouldn't affect the TV slots.

True, but I assume there were other elements that needed to be considered over and above TV and GAAGO

Bonniedog

So much for the promise that all major championship games would be available on TV. And yes, the three hurling games are clearly the three main attractions.