All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2020

blackspot91

Pogue eile wrote: »

In a meaningless game where both teams were already progressing regardless?

Tipp had already beaten Limerick two weeks earlier, again in a meaningless game.

Munster final meaningless? Noel Mcgrath's tears after would tell you otherwise. To compare a Munster final to a genuine dead rubber the week before where Limerick left off the best third of their team is a pretty ridiculous statement..

breezy1985

I'm so sick of the whole the AI is devalued cause you can lose or draw a few games and still win. Why shouldn't teams play the group what's the point of winning every game if 2 or 3 gets you out of the group.

Wexford are Leinster champions and fair play to em. They also gave Tipp much more of a game than KK who were embarrassed by them

Chalk McHugh

Some weekend of hurling action coming up. The opening two games last weekend went along expected lines and very few were giving Laois or Clare much of a chance. Kind of like the starter before the main course.

This weekend we have three live games on tv to look forward to. On Saturday we have Cork v Waterford at 15.30 on Sky and then Galway v Wexford from Croke Park on RTE at 18.15. Only the earlier Kilkenny v Dublin game is not being shown live. Then on Sunday it's the clash of the two All Ireland favourites live at 16.00.

A feast of hurling (plenty of football too) to help us through these dark times. Credit to all concerned to keeping the show on the road. I'm just over the moon be back watching, listening, reading and talking championship again.

Whoever wins the All Ireland this year has never really felt less important to me. Just getting it played is a massive achievement in itself.

Hawkeye9212

breezy1985 wrote: »

I'm so sick of the whole the AI is devalued cause you can lose or draw a few games and still win. Why shouldn't teams play the group what's the point of winning every game if 2 or 3 gets you out of the group.

Wexford are Leinster champions and fair play to em. They also gave Tipp much more of a game than KK who were embarrassed by them

It doesn't devalue any AI victory but you just described the problem. Limerick were deserved champions in 2018. Group stages in any other sport do not give leeway to teams who lose or draw 2 or 3 games. The point of group stages is that the best teams will finish 1st or 2nd and get out of the group. Teams not taking games seriously does devalue the competition as a whole. I know the GAA won't go for it but I'd be interested to see how intense the provincials would be if both champions met in the All-Ireland final.

breezy1985

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

It doesn't devalue any AI victory but you just described the problem. Limerick were deserved champions in 2018. Group stages in any other sport do not give leeway to teams who lose or draw 2 or 3 games. The point of group stages is that the best teams will finish 1st or 2nd and get out of the group. Teams not taking games seriously does devalue the competition as a whole. I know the GAA won't go for it but I'd be interested to see how intense the provincials would be if both champions met in the All-Ireland final.

AC Milan during the Ancelotti years usually went flat out and won the first 4 group games and then threw the other 2 knowing that they had qualified. Won 2 champions leagues doing that as many others have done.
Just having the provincial winners would have been very unfair a few years back when Leinster meant Kilkenny as 5 major contenders have to face off which KK had an easy ride.
Each round should eliminate half the field but sadly ten doesn't break down easy so either top 2 or 3 is fine with me

Hawkeye9212

breezy1985 wrote: »

AC Milan during the Ancelotti years usually went flat out and won the first 4 group games and then threw the other 2 knowing that they had qualified. Won 2 champions leagues doing that as many others have done.
Just having the provincial winners would have been very unfair a few years back when Leinster meant Kilkenny as 5 major contenders have to face off which KK had an easy ride.
Each round should eliminate half the field but sadly ten doesn't break down easy so either top 2 or 3 is fine with me

A lot harder to do that now because most teams come from the top countries. I was thinking more of the World Cup and Euros. KK don't have an easy ride anymore and Munster should also get their share of the weaklings and get a team from the Joe McDonagh. The current system has highlighted the flaws of the provincials.

breezy1985

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

A lot harder to do that now because most teams come from the top countries. I was thinking more of the World Cup and Euros. KK don't have an easy ride anymore and Munster should also get their share of the weaklings and get a team from the Joe McDonagh. The current system has highlighted the flaws of the provincials.

2003 the done it in a group with Munich,Lens and Coruna and second group phase Real, L.Moscow and Dortmund but that's not really important.

The way I see it the group stage makes the provincials mean something again. Limerick had to beat Tipp, Clare and Waterford to win Munster where as with the old system 2013 for example they only had to beat Cork and Tipp so ya they lost 2 games but also had to win more games than before

iebamm2580

blackspot91 wrote: »

Munster final meaningless? Noel Mcgrath's tears after would tell you otherwise. To compare a Munster final to a genuine dead rubber the week before where Limerick left off the best third of their team is a pretty ridiculous statement..

limerick lost 3 of 6 championship games last year, tipp won 7/8. Tipp fully deserving all-ireland winners, tipp are a different team when they get to croke park.

Hawkeye9212

breezy1985 wrote: »

2003 the done it in a group with Munich,Lens and Coruna and second group phase Real, L.Moscow and Dortmund but that's not really important.

The way I see it the group stage makes the provincials mean something again. Limerick had to beat Tipp, Clare and Waterford to win Munster where as with the old system 2013 for example they only had to beat Cork and Tipp so ya they lost 2 games but also had to win more games than before

Provincials still lead to a semi-final so they always meant something. They are just harder to win now.

breezy1985

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Provincials still lead to a semi-final so they always meant something. They are just harder to win now.

No one got knocked out under the backdoor system so they mean a hell of alot more with the group stage

breezy1985

iebamm2580 wrote: »

limerick lost 3 of 6 championship games last year, tipp won 7/8. Tipp fully deserving all-ireland winners, tipp are a different team when they get to croke park.

Tipp are deserving AI winners no one is disputing that. Different team when they get to Croke Park is BS they were the best team no matter where they played last year just got beat by Limerick on the day. The year before they would have been crap whether it was Croke Park or Ahasgragh park they were in

iebamm2580

breezy1985 wrote: »

Tipp are deserving AI winners no one is disputing that. Different team when they get to Croke Park is BS they were the best team no matter where they played last year just got beat by Limerick on the day. The year before they would have been crap whether it was Croke Park or Ahasgragh park they were in

If you follow tipp closely, you will see they always perform (bar 2012 semi) in croke park, even in 2017 when they were having a bad year, only for a wonder point by joe c, they may have got to another all-ireland.

Hawkeye9212

breezy1985 wrote: »

No one got knocked out under the backdoor system so they mean a hell of alot more with the group stage

Sure but the flaws are still there. Kerry have a play-off with the bottom team in Munster whereas the others get straight into Leinster. I would love to see Kerry relegate one of the Munster teams. Munster council will be out the next day proposing to expand it to 6 teams.

breezy1985

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Sure but the flaws are still there. Kerry have a play-off with the bottom team in Munster whereas the others get straight into Leinster. I would love to see Kerry relegate one of the Munster teams. Munster council will be out the next day proposing to expand it to 6 teams.

If Kerry do show they are good enough by winning JoeMcD I bet the conversation for 6+6 will happen before we even have the relegation match. I do agree it's not fair in that one small sense

Boom__Boom

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Apart from his belief that a quick puckout is the work of the devil taught Horgan was fine

Was thinking on the rules regarding quick puckouts (and kickouts in football)

Does anyone think that instead of the current situation where the ref restarts play with a whistle for puck-outs/kickouts, the default situation should be that a goalie should be free to restart play as quick as they like, unless there is a situation like an injury or a sub where the play needs to be stopped?

Chalk McHugh

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Was thinking on the rules regarding quick puckouts (and kickouts in football)

Does anyone think that instead of the current situation where the ref restarts play with a whistle for puck-outs/kickouts, the default situation should be that a goalie should be free to restart play as quick as they like, unless there is a situation like an injury or a sub where the play needs to be stopped?

It wouldn't really work if the referee was down the end of the field where the goalkeeper is attempting a quick puck out after a score or a wide. The ball could be landing 100 yards down the other end while the referee is miles away from being able to follow the play.

Rasputin11

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

It wouldn't really work if the referee was down the end of the field where the goalkeeper is attempting a quick puck out after a score or a wide. The ball could be landing 100 yards down the other end while the referee is miles away from being able to follow the play.

Hurling is quick enough as it is, the quick puck out can turn a game into 7s style hurling. The goalie should be made use the same ball that went over the bar, or wide, when at all possible.

Chalk McHugh

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Hurling is quick enough as it is, the quick puck out can turn a game into 7s style hurling. The goalie should be made use the same ball that went over the bar, or wide, when at all possible.

I heard Mark Landers on the Examiner GAA podcast yesterday mention two referee's again. That would solve the quick puckout perhaps. Can't see it happening, though. Thats why i rarely if ever slate a referee. It's an impossible task to keep everyone happy.

Mantis Toboggan

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I heard Mark Landers on the Examiner GAA podcast yesterday mention two referee's again. That would solve the quick puckout perhaps. Can't see it happening, though. Thats why i rarely if ever slate a referee. It's an impossible task to keep everyone happy.

Take score recording away from the referee let the 4th official do it.

Chalk McHugh

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Take score recording away from the referee let the 4th official do it.

Yes i agree. Time keeping should be taken away from him, also.

Rasputin11

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I heard Mark Landers on the Examiner GAA podcast yesterday mention two referee's again. That would solve the quick puckout perhaps. Can't see it happening, though. Thats why i rarely if ever slate a referee. It's an impossible task to keep everyone happy.

It's up there with being Taoiseach, a thankless task. Brian Gavin was complaining that refs have to be too fit in The Examiner yesterday. Never an issue with him.

Chalk McHugh

Rasputin11 wrote: »

It's up there with being Taoiseach, a thankless task. Brian Gavin was complaining that refs have to be too fit in The Examiner yesterday. Never an issue with him.

JJs Left Hand

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Yes i agree. Time keeping should be taken away from him, also.

Absolutely bizarre that this is not standard at intercounty level. Any argument that you'd have to do it at every level also is laughable. Once there's a fourth official involved at any level that should be their job.

Pogue eile

blackspot91 wrote: »

Munster final meaningless? Noel Mcgrath's tears after would tell you otherwise. To compare a Munster final to a genuine dead rubber the week before where Limerick left off the best third of their team is a pretty ridiculous statement..

Noel McGraths tears? Making stuff up will do you no favours!

And do you for one second think that Liam Sheedy came back to win a Munster title, like feck he did.

Mehapoy

Pogue eile wrote: »

Noel McGraths tears? Making stuff up will do you no favours!

And do you for one second think that Liam Sheedy came back to win a Munster title, like feck he did.

In fairness Sheedy is a fine manager but he's not such a soothsayer that he knew Wexford would beat Kilkenny and Kilkenny would take out Limerick before Tipp got to the final, that's 3d chess right there! Of course he wanted to win Munster on the way...

giveitholly

Mehapoy wrote: »

In fairness Sheedy is a fine manager but he's not such a soothsayer that he knew Wexford would beat Kilkenny and Kilkenny would take out Limerick before Tipp got to the final, that's 3d chess right there! Of course he wanted to win Munster on the way...

If Sheedy wanted to win Munster on the way why did he put the players through an unbelievable hard training session on the friday night before the final

Pogue eile

Mehapoy wrote: »

In fairness Sheedy is a fine manager but he's not such a soothsayer that he knew Wexford would beat Kilkenny and Kilkenny would take out Limerick before Tipp got to the final, that's 3d chess right there! Of course he wanted to win Munster on the way...

Why did all those things need to happen for him to be right?

I am not saying that Tipp deliberately lost a game or threw it, but it was not the ultimate target and they were trained accordingly, this I know for a fact. Even without knowing anything about the inner workings of the Tipp training regime, just watch the Munster Final again, Tipp had a very distinctive style of hurling all year and used it in 7 of their 8 games, in the Munster final they had 6 forwards in orthodox positions and continued to lump long high ball in on top of them.

And the suggestion that Noel McGrath who was substituted 25 mins earlier was crying at the final whistle is farcical

mountgomery burns

giveitholly wrote: »

If Sheedy wanted to win Munster on the way why did he put the players through an unbelievable hard training session on the friday night before the final

Yeah and he had them all up at 6am the morning of the game milking his neighbour's cattle.

Shrewd man Liam, shrewd man.

giveitholly

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Yeah and he had them all up at 6am the morning of the game milking his neighbour's cattle.

Shrewd man Liam, shrewd man.

He is but I hope it was cows they were milking and not cattle!!!!

JJs Left Hand

As others have said Sheedy didn't go back to Tipp to win a Munster title but the idea he flogged them the Friday before a Munster final is absolutely ridiculous.