Irish language revival

branie2 · 01-06-2019 11:05pm

I was given an exemption from Irish, as I had been to a special school where we didn't learn the language before I went into mainstream education

Sardonicat · 01-06-2019 11:10pm

branie2 wrote: »

I was given an exemption from Irish, as I had been to a special school where we didn't learn the language before I went into mainstream education

Is that standard across all special schools, Branie, do you know?

branie2 · 01-06-2019 11:15pm

I don't rightly know

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 01-06-2019 11:21pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

Out of interest, what specifically are they spending this time learning? Not counting stuff they'd be learning anyway?

Saying that it's a waste of time and getting your kids excpetions is no different than forcing kids to learn it.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’d blame the teaching and method. Any good teacher can make the most boring subject exciting and worth learning.
Irish certainly doesn’t have anything going for it as it’s taught now or previously.

I mean Peig

Ffs what’s an awful idea

More the syallabus.

Problem is, it's ultimately a school subject and not a language. And as such, the main reason for learning it is to get points on a college application.

janfebmar wrote: »

Sad thing is the government and all their departments are still wasting billions on a language nobody speaks.

"Nobody"..?

Atlantic Dawn · 01-06-2019 11:25pm

The current curriculam needs to be taken 200 miles west of Black Head and dumped, anyone associated with the support or creation of it should be never allowed have any involvement whatsoever in teaching of the Irish language as they have bloody destroyed it, pure absolute thrash, Mahogany Gas Pipe my hole.

jimbobaloobob · 01-06-2019 11:28pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The current curriculam needs to be taken 200 miles west of Black Head and dumped, anyone associated with the support or creation of it should be never allowed have any involvement whatsoever in teaching of the Irish language as they have bloody destroyed it, pure absolute thrash, Mahogany Gas Pipe my hole.

Which curriculum are you talking about? Primary, Secondary? The new language curriculum or the 1999 one?

Atlantic Dawn · 01-06-2019 11:35pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Which curriculum are you talking about? Primary, Secondary? The new language curriculum or the 1999 one?

1999 is after my time in school but before that the teachings were pure absolute fooking thrash by people not able to converse with people who could speak the language, worst teachings on the face of the earth by people, all concerned with it should have been charged with crimes against Irish teachings. They utter destroyed teachings of the language, utter utter class of war criminals in this category.

ted1 · 01-06-2019 11:43pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

I question your logic. what other subjects are they learning when not in Irish class ?

My kids go to a GaelScoil, so they learn all subjects through Irish and nothing suffers. In fact they actually benefit as reflected by leaving cert results.

We’re in Spain for a month and they have gone to a few classes and picked up Spainish pretty good as a third language as languages are easy for them.

I hope your kids never want to be a primary school teacher.

jimbobaloobob · 01-06-2019 11:52pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

1999 is after my time in school but before that the teachings were pure absolute fooking thrash by people not able to converse with people who could speak the language, worst teachings on the face of the earth by people, all concerned with it should have been charged with crimes against Irish teachings. They utter destroyed teachings of the language, utter utter class of war criminals in this category.

1999 is since my time too but theres a new curriculum being introduced i can see its pros and cons. I cant speak for your experiences but i didnt go to school in an irish speaking area but learnt it, enjoyed it and have it as second language as a result. I think it was also a catalyst for enjoying other languages too.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

i know of alot of parents who have done this to then be disgruntled when they realise that alot of state jobs are off limits, university requirements for course entry have similar issues. But i suppose if you know the right professionals youll figure that one too!

ted1 · 02-06-2019 12:03am

I’ve been spending a lot of time in the middle east lately as have begun picking up
Arabic. The structure of the language is very similar to Irish. So much more than any other language I’ve experienced

The greeting is

God be with you : dia duit
God and the prophet be with you, and so on.

The name Ali is the equivalent of Son or “O(meaning from)”, like Ali Ted1 is O’Ted1

And it continues through out the language

whatdoicare · 02-06-2019 12:15am

ted1 wrote: »

I question your logic. what other subjects are they learning when not in Irish class ?

My kids go to a GaelScoil, so they learn all subjects through Irish and nothing suffers. In fact they actually benefit as reflected by leaving cert results.

We’re in Spain for a month and they have gone to a few classes and picked up Spainish pretty good as a third language as languages are easy for them.

I hope your kids never want to be a primary school teacher.

My young one also goes to a Gaelscoil - she's just finished juniors and she has far more Irish than I ever had at leaving cert level. I really like the way it's taught, like a language should be. Its just more natural.

They'll be doing Spanish or French next year too and it'll be approached the same way, which is fantastic! I can speak Spanish and she's picked up bits from just listening to me and youtube videos. She's very open to languages I'm noticing, much more than her cousins and friends who haven't been to a Gaelscoil. I've noticed if I speak a few words of Spanish to my nieces and nephews they just look at me funny and pretend like I've said nothing, whereas my small one heard someone speaking French on the bus the other day and was straight away mimicing words and trying to make sense of it.

Language should be taught through speaking it not by rote learning from a book and of course being fluent in more than one language makes it easier to learn more languages.

Reati · 02-06-2019 7:34am

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Is aobhionn liom an rinn! Daoine álainn síos ann.
According to Google translate ......
"I love the tip! Beautiful people down there"

Haha and that's why we don't use Google translate but it does produce some classics like that!

Reati · 02-06-2019 7:56am

janfebmar wrote: »

Sad thing is the government and all their departments are still wasting billions on a language nobody speaks.

I call absolute bull**** on this stupid myth.

All government spending is available online. I want you to show us the exact figure and how you calculated it otherwise you're talking out your ass and presenting it as a fact.

First here's some spending stats for comparison.

Social protection 20.63 billion
Health 17.11 billion
Justice 2.7 billion
Agriculture 1.60
National debt repayment 9.56 billion (seriously wtf)

Irish language spending in 2018 (drum roll) 48 million. (and that include grants for the Gaeltacht areas) Thats a lot of zeros short of the billions and billions isn't it now?

For 2018- 2027 they have comitted 178 million extra (that's just 17.8 million extra a year to the current figure) 105 million of which is for developing businesses and delivering 1000 jobs in the gaeltacht areas.

Oh, let's not forget that the government spent over 200 million on stationary.

Billions and billions... :rolleyes:

Del.Monte · 02-06-2019 8:03am

It's €48 million that could be better spent elsewhere and I bet it doesn't take into account the money spent on duplication of official documents in both languages - recent divorce referendum being a case in point. Lip service to 'Climate Emergency' while still producing more waste.

Reati · 02-06-2019 8:08am

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's €48 million that could be better spent elsewhere and I bet it doesn't take into account the money spent on duplication of official documents in both languages - recent divorce referendum being a case in point. Lip service to 'Climate Emergency' while still producing more waste.

Translation costs are minimal actually. Given the entire corpus of EU agreements were translated to Irish for 10 million (don't worry the EU paid for it) and lucky us collecting the income tax from the translators. The few lines of the divorce referendum and collateral associated are hardly a drop in the ocean.

Anyway, Where would it be better spent? What projects exactly. What's the ROI?

Why is Irish seen as a waste yet the 200 million the government spent on stationary is grand?

Del.Monte · 02-06-2019 8:19am

I wouldn't see €200 million spent on government stationery as grand - more squandering of the people's money by an out of control, answerable to nobody elite.

Reati · 02-06-2019 8:23am

Del.Monte wrote: »

I wouldn't see €200 million spent on government stationery as grand - more squandering of the people's money by an out of control, answerable to nobody elite.

And which projects should we take the 48 million (a chunk of which support the people of the Gaeltachtaí) and what grants will we put into place to ensure they aren't negatively affected by your decision that the Irish langauge is worthless to you and therefore must be to them?

Del.Monte · 02-06-2019 8:47am

Can't answer that and I have no difficulty in Gaeltacht areas receiving funding, but I see no reason to continue paying lip service to the language by printing all official material in both Irish and English.

I would also remove compulsory Irish from the school curriculum but in 21st century PC Ireland the mob want religion removed instead. When I was at school, back in the Stone Age, we had one harmless religion class a week as against five mind numbing Irish classes.

Reati · 02-06-2019 8:59am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Can't answer that and I have no difficulty in Gaeltacht areas receiving funding, but I see no reason to continue paying lip service to the language by printing all official material in both Irish and English.

I would also remove compulsory Irish from the school curriculum but in 21st century PC Ireland the mob want religion removed instead. When I was at school, back in the Stone Age, we had one harmless religion class a week as against five mind numbing Irish classes.

Its hardly lip service if 1.7 million claim to be able to speak Irish (we can all agree the highly dubious nature of that claim) but there are circa 100k fluent speakers who use the langauge daily who you think should be forced to stop. Again, it's interesting that your world view is that if it's not valuable to me, it's not worth having.

Why would you remove compulsory Irish? As I posted the numbers already many pages ago, students perform better in Irish exams in the leaving than math or french and German combined (even though more take those exams by choice).

If anything the numbers say we should remove maths as it's one of the poorest performing subjects. I guess it must just be thought wrong... Those pesky teachers at it again.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-06-2019 10:18am

Reati wrote: »

Why would you remove compulsory Irish? As I posted the numbers already many pages ago, students perform better in Irish exams in the leaving than math or french and German combined (even though more take those exams by choice).

If anything the numbers say we should remove maths as it's one of the poorest performing subjects. I guess it must just be thought wrong... Those pesky teachers at it again.

The answers to that are a seperate issue: because the student should be allowed to drop any non-essential subject they find uninspiring or lacking in benefit

If the argument is then 'what about English or Maths' then the response is that these are essential subjects, but also that, if the student has attained a certain level of said subject necessary to operate in society, then yes - so he it.

If the argument is that learning a second language is a proven facilitator in Education, then so be it - but why does this language have to be Irish? Why not French? Or German? I certainly don't see the logic in removing subjects due to poor results in exams!!

Reati · 02-06-2019 10:49am

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The answers to that are a seperate issue: because the student should be allowed to drop any non-essential subject they find uninspiring or lacking in benefit

If the argument is then 'what about English or Maths' then the response is that these are essential subjects, but also that, if the student has attained a certain level of said subject necessary to operate in society, then yes - so he it.

If the argument is that learning a second language is a proven facilitator in Education, then so be it - but why does this language have to be Irish? Why not French? Or German? I certainly don't see the logic in removing subjects due to poor results in exams!!

So we need to have the entire spectrum of subjects available and students should be allowed pick and choose depending on what is inspiring them that day? Sounds fab. Can I get that in my day job too?

Who decides what is a essential subject? Some think religion in school is an essential subject. Some think music or arts is. Others think Chinese (aside: the sheer laughability that some people think replacing Irish with Chinese and we'll produce fluent speakers btw is amazing). Basic maths is enough to function in society. Add, subject, divide, multiple, average, square etc.We could cover all that in primary. So we should drop maths in Secondary unless an elective choice and drop it as a requirement to college courses that don't require maths.

What about English. Writing and reading is covered by 6th class. Why waste 6 years on poems and other such study?

The point of removing poor performing subjects is one in jest. The argument is constantly made that no one actual learns or gets good at Irish in the 3 hours a week they do it in school so it should be removed yet it constantly performs better than the other subjects in state exams. If the argument is that we waste time on Irish as no one actually learns it, then the absolute same arguement can be said for maths. Most people gasp of maths beyond the basics is poor. So it's hypocritical to claim there is value in forcing it for collage placements given you really don't need it for many courses.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-06-2019 10:53am

Reati wrote: »

So we need to have the entire spectrum of subjects available and students should be allowed pick and choose depending on what is inspiring them that day? Sounds fab. Can I get that in my day job too?

Strawman argument. Did I say "entire spectrum"? Did I specifically use the phrase "that day"?

Furthermore, students are already allowed to choose optional students for the leaving cert (and, i some cases, junior cert - or at least I did).

Who decides what is a essential subject? Some think religion in school is an essential subject. Some think music or arts is. Others think Chinese (aside: the sheer laughability that some people think replacing Irish with Chinese and we'll produce fluent speakers btw is amazing). Basic maths is enough to function in society. Add, subject, divide, multiple, average, square etc.We could cover all that in primary. So we should drop maths in Secondary unless an elective choice and drop it as a requirement to college courses that don't require maths.

Answered in previous post: see part about lifeskills.

What about English. Writing and reading is covered by 6th class. Why waste 6 years on poems and other such study?

I'm talking more as an option for the leaving cert.

The point of removing poor performing subjects is one in jest. The argument is constantly made that no one actual learns or gets good at Irish in the 3 hours a week they do it in school so it should be removed yet it constantly performs better than the other subjects in state exams. If the argument is that we waste time on Irish as no one actually learns it, then the absolute same arguement can be said for maths. Most people gasp of maths beyond the basics is poor. So it's hypocritical to claim there is value in forcing it for collage placements given you really don't need it for many courses.

Fair enough, I'd agree with you here. It's like saying you need Irtish to study veterinary science - wtf?!

El Tarangu · 02-06-2019 11:16am

Reati wrote: »

I call absolute bull**** on this stupid myth.

...
Irish language spending in 2018 (drum roll) 48 million. (and that include grants for the Gaeltacht areas)

I think you are being disingenuous; education spending will be €11bn this year. Irish is taught right the way through primary and secondary, and (in theory) every primary school teacher has to be proficient in Irish. So in addition to this €48m, a not-insignificant slice of this €11bn figure is also being spent on the Irish language.

The_Kew_Tour · 02-06-2019 11:43am

The Welsh did a good job of it. Can't see why we can't do same.

02-06-2019 12:06pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The Welsh did a good job of it. Can't see why we can't do same.

In the 1970s, the "Welsh language society" went as far as a bombing campaign which took out a number of TV transmitters. Hopefully Direct action isn't part of any strategy to Promote the Irish Language.

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 12:06pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

I see no reason to continue paying lip service to the language by printing all official material in both Irish and English.

Correct. As well as costing a fortune, it is bad for the environment.

Snow Garden · 02-06-2019 12:10pm

Nina Pitiful Shamrock wrote: »

Personally I'm not bothered about it and get niffed when people equate our Irishness with just a language,

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

02-06-2019 12:16pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

So Irish people want to retain their Irish identity, what's wrong with that!
Labelling it as racist/xenophobic is wrong, very wrong.

Hamsterchops · 02-06-2019 12:25pm

Speaking Irish is from our past, dare I say our distant past.

Irish was dying out for a couple of hundred years before it fell out of everyday use, and it was obviously superceded by English, the language or communication, commerce and the arts.

Let those who want to speak Irish speak it, but as regards the vast bulk of the Irish population, it's over, and it's in the past (apart from school) where the 'we all speak Irish myth' is perpetuated....at great expense.

Don't know what the Welsh did, but it works really well for them.

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 12:31pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

Parents usually send theirs kids to Gaelscoil not for Irish, but so that their kids are not the ones to mix with immigrants and blacks.

HoteiMarkii · 02-06-2019 12:33pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

A significant number of the children attending our local Gaelscoil are children of immigrants.

Reati · 02-06-2019 12:38pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Parents usually send theirs kids to Gaelscoil not for Irish, but so that their kids are not the ones to mix with immigrants and blacks.

You've clearly not set foot in a Gaelscoil in your life. They are far from thr pure breed Irish GAA white pasty you are imagining. At least a 1/4 if not more of my oldest class is non Irish.

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 12:40pm

HoteiMarkii wrote: »

A significant number of the children attending our local Gaelscoil are children of immigrants.

Higher % of immigrants in non - Gaelscoils.

Noveight · 02-06-2019 12:41pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Parents usually send theirs kids to Gaelscoil not for Irish, but so that their kids are not the ones to mix with immigrants and blacks.

Completely incorrect.

You’ve just fabricated that to suit whatever argument you’re pushing.

Reati · 02-06-2019 12:45pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

I think you are being disingenuous; education spending will be €11bn this year. Irish is taught right the way through primary and secondary, and (in theory) every primary school teacher has to be proficient in Irish. So in addition to this €48m, a not-insignificant slice of this €11bn figure is also being spent on the Irish language.

Show me the figures! You don't get to toss out 11billion and walk away. The breakdown is online and you're disingenuous to state a significant slice is on Irish only.

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 12:47pm

Noveight wrote: »

Completely incorrect.

It is well known. Just google Gaelscoil images and out of hundreds of faces, practically not a black face to be seen. It is like looking back at 1980's Ireland.

Reati · 02-06-2019 12:49pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Strawman argument. Did I say "entire spectrum"? Did I specifically use the phrase "that day"?

Furthermore, students are already allowed to choose optional students for the leaving cert (and, i some cases, junior cert - or at least I did).

Answered in previous post: see part about lifeskills.

I'm talking more as an option for the leaving cert.

Fair enough, I'd agree with you here. It's like saying you need Irtish to study veterinary science - wtf?!

I'm on the road and will get back to this when I'm home as I need a laptop for the many quotes

Reati · 02-06-2019 12:50pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It is well known. Just google Gaelscoil images and out of hundreds of faces, practically not a black face to be seen. It is like looking back at 1980's Ireland.

If I google my old secondary school there isn't anything but white faces. Seems strange as there was immigrants in my class.

Does this mean you can't trust everything you google?

Stop moaning ffs · 02-06-2019 12:50pm

janfebmar wrote: »

It is well known. Just google Gaelscoil images and out of hundreds of faces, practically not a black face to be seen. It is like looking back at 1980's Ireland.

This is beautiful. Syrian boy. 4 languages. Plays hurling. Wants to learn Irish next.
Go away tfuk with your nonsense

https://twitter.com/johnhyphen/status/1133732626316091393?s=21

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 12:58pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

Its ok having the odd immigrant in a Gaelscoil as long as they integrate to the Gaelscoil way of life.

Reati · 02-06-2019 1:00pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Its ok having the odd immigrant in a Gaelscoil as long as they integrate to the Gaelscoil way of life.

:eyeroll: obvious troll is obvious

Snow Garden · 02-06-2019 1:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So Irish people want to retain their Irish identity, what's wrong with that!
Labelling it as racist/xenophobic is wrong, very wrong.

No I believe it's sectarian in nature. Look at those SF idiots up north making a Stormont issue out of the Irish language.

Pump all the money wasted on the dead language into hurling, handball, football, camogie, dancing, music etc. Promoting a language that only 'true' Irish people speak only comes across as secretive and sectarian in nature.

Please don't patronise us with the odd example of a black boy playing hurling and speaking as gaeilge to prove it's all inclusive. I am hugely involved in the Galway GAA scene and it certainly isn't. I have seen many supporters very uncomfortable with 'foreigners' playing Gaelic games, especially in rural clubs. They can't help it - they tend to be older and religious too.

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Stop moaning ffs · 02-06-2019 1:26pm

Those people are definitely out there. Sad part is they have probably never left their own county never mind the country.
They’re not representing the ireland I know In any way whatsoever. The ignorance and stupidity of it is appalling but thankfully they’re a dying breed.
We beat them in marriage equality we beat them by repealing the 8th it’s not that ireland anymore and their hate and racism have no place in this ireland.

Snow Garden · 02-06-2019 1:34pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Those people are definitely out there. Sad part is they have probably never left their own county never mind the country.
They’re not representing the ireland I know In any way whatsoever. The ignorance and stupidity of it is appalling but thankfully they’re a dying breed.
We beat them in marriage equality we beat them by repealing the 8th it’s not that ireland anymore and their hate and racism have no place in this ireland.

Yeah but they are passing on their prejudices too. It's just that the current generation of parents are better able to hide their feelings. Again it is my perception but this Irish revival is a another way of staying separate to the 'new' Irish. I am all for Irish identity but I also think Irish identity can change.
Jaysus we are only here for 75 off years, far more important things than identity. Now go away you freaks, I want to watch the hurling.

ted1 · 02-06-2019 1:37pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I am being honest, I think the whole Irish language obsession is coming from people who want to differentiate themselves from the influx of immigrants over the past 20 years. There is definitely a racist/xenophobic element to it - especially the Gaelscoils.

That’s just Bull****

I sent mine to one as it is the best school around and feeds into a good gaelcolaiste that’s free. There’s not many good free secondary schools in south Dublin.

Stop moaning ffs · 02-06-2019 1:40pm

ted1 wrote: »

That’s just Bull****

Yeah there’s a Gemma o doolallee level of stupid in that one alright

Stop moaning ffs · 02-06-2019 1:43pm

Dead language? Yeah right. To some maybe

https://twitter.com/unakavanagh/status/1135118828361461766?s=21

janfebmar · 02-06-2019 2:35pm

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Dead language? Yeah right.

A few old videos or books, which few will ever read, and which were probably made with "funding" or handouts, do not prove anything. How many books / magazines / newspapers do people ever part with their hard earned own money for?

Stop moaning ffs · 02-06-2019 2:42pm

janfebmar wrote: »

A few old videos or books, which few will ever read, and which were probably made with "funding" or handouts, do not prove anything. How many books / magazines / newspapers do people ever part with their hard earned own money for?

Clearly loads do. You have some serious hate in you for ireland. Why are you even here?

steddyeddy · 02-06-2019 2:44pm

janfebmar wrote: »

A few old videos or books, which few will ever read, and which were probably made with "funding" or handouts, do not prove anything. How many books / magazines / newspapers do people ever part with their hard earned own money for?

J at least it's not as bad as Ulster Scotts. A "language" with no difference to English.

Irish language revival

Comments