Irish language revival

ILoveYourVibes

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Who said anything about browbeating or forcing anyone? As if that would work. It wouldn’t.
There is any amount of ways to rebrand it and make people want to engage though. The impetus just isn’t there.

Ok just rememeber i am not being shouty ...and i like you.


Rebranding is fake bs.


Are Irish speakers GENUINE?

Or is all this fake?

Do you really LOVE the Irish language? Do you really want to share it and open it up???

Not you personally ....the general spirit of the movement or Irish speaking community.

All you have to do is find something within it that really interests each student. And tell them they are welcome within it.

Its needs inspiration and fire. I want someone to answer my space monkey question! :mad:

Or try to ..or imagine!

I am not going to hang around for a brand. I am off for that.

Either its passionate or not.

My space monkey question ..is a good question!


Someone explain the linguistics of Irish ...the psychology of it ...GET ME INTERESTED..


Why is Irish so spatially orientated?



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reading-the-grammar-of-an-irish-mind-1.1939090

I MEAN LOOK AT THIS ..THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

Éilís Ní Dhuibhne (the writer of this article ) is a GENIUS! I BET SHE COULD ANSWER MY SPACE MONKEY QUESTION!


Maybe instead of thinking Irish kids are really DUMB realize they are too smart to fall for any rebranding. And offer them something REAL and fascinating. Its called KNOWLEDGE.

Not shouty! :P

And read that article its fascinating!

Upforthematch

BarryD2 wrote: »

I've wondered if a modern Irish speaker met a native speaker from say the 18th century, would they be able to converse at all meaningfully? Even now, there are differences in vocabulary between Ulster, Connacht and Munster Irish and then there's the official version. The whole area is full of contradictions but I suppose such is life.

A speaker from the 19th century certainly could. Look at a couple of books from the 1900's (they're free online) and while the spelling might be different, the substance is the same.

Living languages evolve, the English syntax in Irish is now commonplace. I'm sure Spanish as spoken in the southern states in the US would be a little different to the classical version also!

Das Reich

janfebmar wrote: »

It's an ugly dead language and a waste if taxpayers money.

I doubt is ugly or hard to learn as some people here say, English is both of them.

ILoveYourVibes

Upforthematch wrote: »

Ever hear of first mover advantage? You're right it doesn't matter as much today but it undoubtedly did in the past.

Speaking English has helped Irish people make a living for over 150 years - outside of Ireland in particular. I don't think we realise just how important that diaspora (particularly in USA) has been for us economically and politically.

It has helped prosperity in Ireland also, not singlehandedly but in combination with other factors, particularly in more recent decades. We can't ignore that the shift in the mother tongue was - for the most part - a pragmatic and incentivised choice, not a violent struggle.

Ní bheathaíonn na briathra na bráithre as they say.

Colonization and its affects, is never a choice.

ILoveYourVibes

Das Reich wrote: »

I doubt is ugly or hard to learn as some people here say, English is both of them.

That is relative. It is to them. English is to you. You are both right.

Greyfox

Reati wrote: »

Speaking English actually doesn't mean much anymore because a huge number of people speak it.

It's still far better then having someone who is only fluent in Irish

ILoveYourVibes

Greyfox wrote: »

It's still far better then having someone who is only fluent in Irish

Maybe not who knows.

I think having someone only fluent in Irish would be cool if you could travel back in time ....you could ask questions.....space monkey questions....


Cé na mhoncaí spáis?

I refuse to let this go.

Upforthematch

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Colonization and its affects, is never a choice.

The one and only English Pope Adrian IV invited the English to sojourn in Ireland in 1156. It was a long time after that English become the mother tongue for most of us!

Stop moaning ffs

Lets not forget English is a mongrel language and relatively young and mutated really quickly into its current form. It’s being abandoned by youth of today who seem to speak in emojis and have abysmal spelling and grammar when they do try to use it

ILoveYourVibes

Upforthematch wrote: »

The one and only English Pope Adrian IV invited the English to sojourn in Ireland in 1156. It was a long time after that English become the mother tongue for most of us!

WIKI

It is believed that Irish remained the majority tongue as late as 1800[18] but became a minority language during the 19th century.[19

I wonder what their value system was. It should be ours ..now...

I mean all those ghosts....they prolly be hurt we were speaking the language of the people who crushed them. I think they would want to know we were ok though!

Irish needs a field of dreams moment.

Keep the faith

Greyfox

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It teach so bad in school it need change radical. Drop all the poetry and write grammar and tenses sh!te and focus to teach how to speak proper and communicate effective...

You get my drift? The educational system manages to teach grammar, cases and tenses very well in other languages. There is nothing particularly difficult about Irish grammar or its verbs.

No, it doesnt change the fact that what Wakka said is correct. Irish grammer is difficult to learn if the only other language you know is English. If you learn the words first and the grammer 2nd you at least know what your learning the grammer for.

ILoveYourVibes

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Lets not forget English is a mongrel language and relatively young and mutated really quickly into its current form. It’s being abandoned by youth of today who seem to speak in emojis and have abysmal spelling and grammar when they do try to use it

Lets not attack English. Its as lovely as any language. And emojis are kind of like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Chinese characters evolved from symbols like emojis.

Stop moaning ffs

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Lets not attack English. Its as lovely as any language. And emojis are kind of like Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Chinese characters evolved from symbols like emojis.

Ah I wasn’t attacking them. Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

ILoveYourVibes

OMG LOOK AT THIS WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN!??



Its from 1390.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Irish_language#/media/File:Book_of_Ballymote_170r.jpg



Why are there circles and a pyramid?

Upforthematch

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

And punished the Welsh... and Scots as well probably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

Look at the history of the French language - not everyone was speaking 'Parisian' in France either.

Punishment often equalled death in those times. The Maam Trasna murder case is one example of where an Irish speaker was wronged by an English speaking system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maolra_Seoighe

There weren't thousands of such cases though as you would expect if there was an "active wipeout'. The English language programme in Ireland in 19th century did have many native sympathisers.

Stop moaning ffs

Upforthematch wrote: »

And punished the Welsh... and Scots as well probably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not

Look at the history of the French language - not everyone was speaking 'Parisian' in France either.

Punishment often equalled death in those times. The Maam Trasna murder case is one example of where an Irish speaker was wronged by an English speaking system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maolra_Seoighe

There weren't thousands of such cases though as you would expect if there was an "active wipeout'. The English language programme in Ireland in 19th century did have many native sympathisers.

Well it went from hanging up to the softer feeding people if they anglicised their names.
The infamous ‘yis took the spud’ slur that survives to this day

whisky_galore

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Well it went from hanging up to the softer feeding people if they anglicised their names.
The infamous ‘yis took the spud’ slur that survives to this day

Along with countless other outdated and usually inaccurate slurs unfortunately.

Stop moaning ffs

whisky_galore wrote: »

Along with countless other outdated and usually inaccurate slurs unfortunately.

So how else was it achieved pray tell?
We have thousands of surnames In Ireland that are warped versions of their original Irish origin.

We all just decided overnight to change them did we?

BarryD2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Though they actively wiped out the Irish language here and punished anyone using it.

Christian Brother type historical hogwash! There's a world of difference between bringing in notional laws and implementing them. Irish people moved to speaking English for the same practical & economic reasons that pertains right across the world to this very day.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

BarryD2 wrote: »

Christian Brother type historical hogwash! There's a world of difference between bringing in notional laws and implementing them. Irish people moved to speaking English for the same practical & economic reasons that pertains right across the world to this very day.

The economic and political reasons were the result of colonialism of course, without the British empire it wouldn’t have been practical.

ILoveYourVibes

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The economic and political reasons were the result of colonialism of course, without the British empire it wouldn’t have been practical.

They could have been a nicer empire to be honest.

I mean Miccy D's lets people speak their own language!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

_blaaz wrote: »

Orally its not a particularly difficult language to master


Dont see whats wrong with aspiring to have large% of population fluent in it?

I never found Irish easy. And it wasn’t because I was weak at learning languages generally. I was a good French student. But Irish just alluded me. I never found it easy or even interesting. I would gladly have jettisoned it as a subject if I could have.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I never found Irish easy. And it wasn’t because I was weak at learning languages generally. I was a good French student. But Irish just alluded me. I never found it easy or even interesting. I would gladly have jettisoned it as a subject if I could have.

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer


*i say that being doubly depressed as someone who has friends here who can speak fluent Sindarin and Klingon.

facehugger99

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

Stop moaning ffs

facehugger99 wrote: »

Irish is a complete waste of time. I've managed to get both my kids exemptions from it so they can use that time in secondary school to study useful stuff.

It's quite easy if you know the right professionals and I would encourage any parent who values their child's education to do the same.

You’re also known for your loathing of all things irish, weird you’d deny your kids an education in their heritage. Presuming you and them are Irish.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer


*i say that being doubly depressed as someone who has friends here who can speak fluent Sindarin and Klingon.

It’s not even that. I just didn’t like it as a subject. Like others don’t like maths or history or whatever.

BarryD2

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That brings up the main problem.
Application.
We none of us have any need to know it and use it. There’s the huge breach in it being of any practical use.
Handy to know French in France. Etc
Really no need in Ireland.

It’s a bummer.

Agreed, only needed for certain jobs and after that, just a hobby or cultural interest.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It’s not even that. I just didn’t like it as a subject. Like others don’t like maths or history or whatever.

I’d blame the teaching and method. Any good teacher can make the most boring subject exciting and worth learning.
Irish certainly doesn’t have anything going for it as it’s taught now or previously.

I mean Peig


Ffs what’s an awful idea

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’d blame the teaching and method. Any good teacher can make the most boring subject exciting and worth learning.
Irish certainly doesn’t have anything going for it as it’s taught now or previously.

I mean Peig


Ffs what’s an awful idea

I had some good Irish teachers. It just wasn’t for me. And I actually missed out on Peig Sayers, the curriculum changed.

I’ve found some people to be quite judgemental of me IRL for not liking Irish as a subject or language. Nobody ever seems to have a problem with people not liking maths or french or history. Just because it’s our former native tongue doesn’t mean everyone is going to like learning it.

I like French because I think it’s a beautiful language. I didn’t feel the same about Irish.

Stop moaning ffs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I had some good Irish teachers. It just wasn’t for me. And I actually missed out on Peig Sayers, the curriculum changed.

I’ve found some people to be quite judgemental of me IRL for not liking Irish as a subject or language. Nobody ever seems to have a problem with people not liking maths or french or history. Just because it’s our former native tongue doesn’t mean everyone is going to like learning it.

I like French because I think it’s a beautiful language. I didn’t feel the same about Irish.

You can’t blame the language on someone judging you for not liking it. Fvck em.

I went to a Gaelscoil for secondary. Not having any Irish. Not the brightest idea.
I had to learn French and German starting first year through a second language I didn’t know.
They were both taught through Irish. As was everything except English.
I was fluent in conversational Irish by the end of first year.
I still have no idea what’s going on in French or German but I can ask for directions to the train station or mayors house if I’m lost on Germany

And mein kuli ist kapput

Me and my classmate day one of German in first year thought this was the funniest thing. Also the only thing I remember about learning German.

Still have my Irish though.