brewery site plans

Threadhead · 14-04-2016 11:25pm

So... how about that brewery site, eh?

kikel · 15-04-2016 8:16am

Threadhead wrote: »

So... how about that brewery site, eh?

Catbear seems to think he has won an argument. In reality he has won that argument. "It is possible that creative stuff could go on the brewery site if it is deemed a business park." He has won that argument, well done.

The fact still remains that a large number of people are still concerned about what the end result will be for the site. Calling it a business park to the main funders of the site who will have the majority control of the site means that NTMA can dictate what goes into the site, not the people of Kilkenny, not the council. NTMA business model is to make a profit. They don;t give a damn about the people of Kilkenny. They work for their investors.

hi5 · 15-04-2016 2:04pm

I would have thought that after the demonstrations over the new bridge 2 years ago that it would be made very clear to the people of Kilkenny exactly what is going on to the site before any work starts.

pegasus1 · 16-04-2016 11:54am

Question..Who on earth deems it ok to put a business park slap bang in the center of a Town ( to all intents and purposes that's what Kilkenny is..)

Mankbag · 16-04-2016 5:32pm

pegasus1 wrote: »

Question..Who on earth deems it ok to put a business park slap bang in the center of a Town ( to all intents and purposes that's what Kilkenny is..)

The engineers, town planners and executive of Kilkenny County Council. Also, it appears, the councillors.

kikel · 17-04-2016 6:38pm

There is a meeting about this tomorrow evening.spotted on savekilkenny page.

Threadhead · 18-04-2016 9:11am

What a tragedy it is that Kilkenny is saddled with such a low, corrupt and underhanded lot whom we have no say in matters (and I'm not confident tonight's meeting will do anything to stop them). Business, concrete and short term fixes drive everything and quality of life and sustainability take a back seat. It's all so a few people can make as much money as they can before they go on to destroy Shelbyville, North Haverbrook or Ogdenville. (Seriously, the Monorail episode of the Simpsons is a ringer for this. Except it's not funny anymore).

Kilkenny is a potential cash cow. And they know this. And so they plunder freely while they can.

kikel · 18-04-2016 10:03am

As can be seen from the follow email from Joe Crockett. We are not getting a Creative Quarter in Kilkenny. Joe Crockett sold this to the people of Kilkenny as a creative quarter. Now he is on the other side of the fence and the real agenda is coming through. Was this the plan all along? Who knows?

People are right saying that Creative forces can take up residence here. But If we are going to create a creative quarter as it was sold to us. It should be written as part of the agenda for any entity to create this.

Received under FOI: From: Joe Crockett <Joe.Crockett@ntma.ie> Sent: 09 October 2015 09:31 To: Kieran Culhane Cc: 'martin.prendiville@kilkennycoco.ie'; Frank Dowling; 'colette.byrne@kilkennycoco.ie'

Subject: FW: CSO - further info Attachments: ISIF_KK_Prop_Dev Statistical Query Form ver2.0.docx

Dear Kieran

Re my email of 7 Oct, I wish to confirm that the project in Kilkenny is fully commercial in its objectives and that it will seek to establish a business, enterprise, education and research campus at the site of the former Smithwicks Brewery and seek build out some 7 site blocks for this purpose over a number of years.

The project does not seek to provide a public service campus, but a commercial business campus. To that extent, as stated previously, the concept incorporates business risk for the parties participating, however these risks will be mitigated with good business practice I hope this is helpful

Best wishes Joe

Threadhead · 18-04-2016 10:14am

Sickening.

kikel · 18-04-2016 10:27am

There is also concerns about health on the site for people who use the site. The EPA have said it is safe BUT not safe for a childrens playground. Will Kilkenny Children not use the Linear park and the proposed Skate park? No wonder Kilkenny citizens are concerned and organising a public meeting.

eoinfitzokk · 20-04-2016 6:45pm

kikel wrote: »

There is also concerns about health on the site for people who use the site. The EPA have said it is safe BUT not safe for a childrens playground. Will Kilkenny Children not use the Linear park and the proposed Skate park? No wonder Kilkenny citizens are concerned and organising a public meeting.

The Safe reference is probably with reference to PCBs? PCBs in sediments mainly will affect invertebrates and Fish in the Bregagh River. Just picking upon this thread from here and haven't read the whole thread.

foxcoverteddy · 21-04-2016 7:21pm

Of course Catbear has won, he is correct we the populace voted them in, democratically, yyou had a free vote, and because you do not agree with what is happening all kinds of suggestions are being circulated, some bordering on the scurilous, the answer of course is not to vote for these people again, of course if you can uphold any of the accusations, there are channels to use. My crib is whatever happens it is going to generate much more traffic in the area which is already at breaking point, which does bring us back to the unfijished ring road. Net result is Kilkenny will lose out on shoppers, tres bon for .Clonmel. foxy

pegasus1 · 22-04-2016 11:10am

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Net result is Kilkenny will lose out on shoppers, tres bon for .Clonmel. foxy

Off topic...Have the Wickla people kicked you out already Foxy?? Welcome back!!

foxcoverteddy · 22-04-2016 12:05pm

No but following events, great story line, thanks for the thought Foxy

bloopy · 25-04-2016 2:22pm

A business park. How exciting!
What a creative use of city centre space.

bloopy · 25-04-2016 2:26pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Wow what a big person you are, nothing worse than a cowardly keyboard warrior......you wouldn't work for the council or are involved in some way with this scheme....would you?

Certainly seems to get awfully worked up when anybody even slightly questions how the whole brewery/bridge issue is being handled.

Help!!!! · 25-04-2016 9:02pm

bloopy wrote: »

A business park. How exciting!
What a creative use of city centre space.

Just what you want for the centre of a medieval town
What happens if they get no businesses?

Captain Havoc · 25-04-2016 9:26pm

I just can't believe there's a discussion, how many town planners would give their right arm to have that much space (both brewery and mart) to play with in the dead centre of their town? They could just go, how do we build the world's most perfect town centre? And then go and do it.

Sky King · 25-04-2016 10:02pm

I genuinely don't understand this urgent need to fill it with something... ANYTHING as quickly as possible. You'd swear the bloody thing was going to vanish unless we threw buildings onto it before it's too late

Would it not be possible to just leave it as a big open empty space and throw down a bit of grass seed like the castle park while we relax for a bit and have a think and see if funding is available for a college or creative arts centre or whatever.

Mankbag · 25-04-2016 10:37pm

Sky King wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand this urgent need to fill it with something... ANYTHING as quickly as possible. You'd swear the bloody thing was going to vanish unless we threw buildings onto it before it's too late

Would it not be possible to just leave it as a big open empty space and throw down a bit of grass seed like the castle park while we relax for a bit and have a think and see if funding is available for a college or creative arts centre or whatever.

No, because that would mean leaving it up to the people of Kilkenny to decide. It would also mean that Joe Crockett wouldn't make money out of it.

Threadhead · 25-04-2016 10:56pm

It's the same as the mart site, we're talking about entirely new areas of Kilkenny. The potential for new streets, squares and parks right slap bang in the city centre. And instead we're going to get two business parks no different from anything on the ring road.

pegasus1 · 26-04-2016 9:12am

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I just can't believe there's a discussion, how many town planners would give their right arm to have that much space (both brewery and mart) to play with in the dead centre of their town? They could just go, how do we build the world's most perfect town centre? And then go and do it.

Think Grafton st. but on the scale of Temple Bar...then think Kildare Village...It would be a huge draw in the south east...craft shops, brand shops all in amongst each other..

pegasus1 · 26-04-2016 9:14am

Sky King wrote: »

I genuinely don't understand this urgent need to fill it with something... ANYTHING as quickly as possible. You'd swear the bloody thing was going to vanish unless we threw buildings onto it before it's too late

Would it not be possible to just leave it as a big open empty space and throw down a bit of grass seed like the castle park while we relax for a bit and have a think and see if funding is available for a college or creative arts centre or whatever.

Get off the college campus idea...where to the students stay..think of the residents on the road top of UCC in cork...old residents etc living beside student frat houses with beer parties in the front and back gardens..

foxcoverteddy · 26-04-2016 9:33am

Ring road, no we do not have one, and as our elected representatives have sanctioned these plans, why are we bothering. We might have salvaged a true medieval city , apart from the castle what else is there? Neither market cross or yard can be called medieval, Barrack street just take a look ugh, Mcdonough Station site charming I dont think, Ormonde Street wonderful, but our elected representatives agreed. Truth is does Kilkenny wantz to be known as a place of beauty, a breath of fresh air or lets go like the rest. No good knocking one person, all this is collective agreement, no one person can control the elected. Trouble is what do we want from our city or what does our city want from us. Look at the roads and transport system, do we want tourists or business, perhaps we will never agree, but for sure we need a proper ring road and some form of transport system, dont come to Kilkenny if you are disabled or in a wheel chair, as a final salute ask your elected representative, Foxy signing off.

kikel · 26-04-2016 9:39am

pegasus1 wrote: »

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I just can't believe there's a discussion, how many town planners would give their right arm to have that much space (both brewery and mart) to play with in the dead centre of their town? They could just go, how do we build the world's most perfect town centre? And then go and do it.

Think Grafton st. but on the scale of Temple Bar...then think Kildare Village...It would be a huge draw in the south east...craft shops, brand shops all in amongst each other..

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you suggesting tht the brewery site should be retail?

pegasus1 · 26-04-2016 9:47am

kikel wrote: »

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you suggesting tht the brewery site should be retail?

Yes, for the small craftsman and larger brand shops...make the buildings old style stone clad..have a permanent market area that can be then used as a proper Christmas market..and all lit by old style lighting with modern white light bulbs of course..use cobble lock paving for the roads...pedestrianised bar certain stocking times..make the streets like they were in the old times

Edit...not too many bars, but a good few cafe's wiith outside sitting along the river..

foxcoverteddy · 26-04-2016 9:55am

Bravo, sounds exciting what you are suggesting, kilkenny needs you urgently, after all it is your city, well one

kikel · 26-04-2016 10:46am

pegasus1 wrote: »

kikel wrote: »

Can you clarify what you mean? Are you suggesting tht the brewery site should be retail?

Yes, for the small craftsman and larger brand shops...make the buildings old style stone clad..have a permanent market area that can be then used as a proper Christmas market..and all lit by old style lighting with modern white light bulbs of course..use cobble lock paving for the roads...pedestrianised bar certain stocking times..make the streets like they were in the old times

Edit...not too many bars, but a good few cafe's wiith outside sitting along the river..

What you describe does sound lovely alright. My main concern in what you propose is how do you/anyone propose to connect it to what we already have.

[ul]
[li]McDonagh Junction is already disjointed from our core shopping area. It's build now, there is no going back. [/li]
[li]Retail on the Brewery site would divide that once again. [/li]
[li]Market Cross in fairness when built was in the core shopping area of our city. [/li]
[li]Would it not be better to focus the large brand shops to locate between our 2 shopping districts already in place rather than creating something new? [/li]
[/ul]

You suggestion re stone, cladding, lighting etc do sound lovely, but does it go with our modern medieval mile of Chinese stone and chrome.

Threadhead · 26-04-2016 5:34pm

It's unrealistic to think the site is sustainable without retail. It will require it. However, the problem is that it the current plans seem to be geared exclusively towards retail and 'business'. In a town littered with empty shops, more retail will not solve the problems and this is where the short sightedness of the council comes in.

This site is a prime development that can give people more reasons to come to (and stay in) the city. An investment in culture, heritage, leisure and the arts would go some ways towards creating an area of Kilkenny that people will want to spend time in. Retail alone won't do it. Like the CAS before it, it's another case of the council operating on their usual cart before the horse philosophy.

kikel · 26-04-2016 5:58pm

Threadhead wrote: »

It's unrealistic to think the site is sustainable without retail. It will require it. However, the problem is that it the current plans seem to be geared exclusively towards retail and 'business'. In a town littered with empty shops, more retail will not solve the problems and this is where the short sightedness of the council comes in.

This site is a prime development that can give people more reasons to come to (and stay in) the city. An investment in culture, heritage, leisure and the arts would go some ways towards creating an area of Kilkenny that people will want to spend time in. Retail alone won't do it. Like the CAS before it, it's another case of the council operating on their usual cart before the horse philosophy.

The council regularly like to put the cart before the horse. A big issue with this plan is what's going happen all the traffic this development will create. Suppose 500 jobs are created on this site. Where the hell are people going to park? How are people going to access this site?

brewery site plans

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