brewery site plans

linny

http://kclr96fm.com/news/500-jobs-pipeline-brewery-site-kilkenny-city/

if this comes to pass it will be great for kilkenny

road_high

I heard this a few months back. Google were mentioned at the time but it's clearly a more Financial Servcies type set up. I couldn't see this coming to fruitition for years as the site is still being used by Diageo and will take massive redevelopment.
I'd have thought something like this would prefer to be outside the city, like State Street or VHI?

kikel

Sorry but when do the county council deliver jobs for the county. In my opinion this is just pr spin they have come up with to push through plan for the CAS.

If this was really possible or true we'd be hearing names and the IDA would be backing it. Shame on Mr. Crocket for such a poor attempt. He will try anything to get this through. First he lied about the archeological report and now this rubbish that their are jobs in the pipeline. He must be getting a big brown envelope from someone.

randylonghorn

In fairness to Crockett (and I don't have much time for the man, and I think the CAS is a dreadful idea), he does take more interest in attracting business to the area than many county managers seem to.

Imho, he has as big an ego as any politician, and sees the grandiose "Abbey Quarter" and the CAS and a couple of other projects as his potential "legacy" to the city, so it really wouldn't surprise me if he was actively involved in trying to attract anchor tenants, for want of a better term, for the AQ.

Whether he is as far along in that quest as he would like us to believe ... that might be a different matter!

And I couldn't but applaud him for trying to bring business and employment in, for whatever reason he's doing it; who could? I think he lacks a broader long-term vision though, or much respect for the historic fabric of the city which is potentially one of its greatest economic resources if safeguarded, and smugly dismisses and derides anything that doesn't suit his agenda; and the upshot may be that the city ends up with the CAS and another ugly bridge and ugly steel and glass towers on the brewery site which end up half empty and a white elephant in years to come.

Einhard

Why don't people wait and see what comes of these proposals before launching into the routine condemnations and ad honinem attacks?

Also, the whole brown envelope thing is a pretty nasty slur. I don't know the man from Adam, but to be alleging corruption and illegality against someone purely because you don't agree with his plans is pretty contemptible. It's libel pure and simple.

rayc

kikel wrote: »

If this was really possible or true we'd be hearing names and the IDA would be backing it.

Just to point out here that the article clearly mentions both the IDA and ConnectIreland as being involved in negotiations.

redtelephone

I think that following the elections the CAS is in real trouble, and Mr Crockett is starting to panic, so he starts scaremongering. The Council meeting today (3.00 pm) may tell a lot.

linny

does anyone know out of the 24 councillors that were elected who is for and against the CAS

redtelephone

linny wrote: »

does anyone know out of the 24 councillors that were elected who is for and against the CAS

According to the Irish Times of last Friday (30th May) there were 6 known to be against : Malone, Mckee, Funchion, Kennedy, Gardiner and Noonan. By this stage there may be more (or even less) :eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/kilkenny-s-central-access-scheme-may-be-in-doubt-after-local-elections-1.1814387

road_high

redtelephone wrote: »

According to the Irish Times of last Friday (30th May) there were 6 known to be against : Malone, Mckee, Funchion, Kennedy, Gardiner and Noonan. By this stage there may be more (or even less) :eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/kilkenny-s-central-access-scheme-may-be-in-doubt-after-local-elections-1.1814387

The only ones that are ideologically against it here are Gardner and Noonan. And I respect them for their believes and green credentials.
The rest are just populist FF/SF'ers that will blow what ever way they feel the wind is blowing and never have to actually make a hard decision.
Love to hear Kathleen Funchion's alternatives for example. How someone like this gets elected is truly mind-boggling. Was Kennedy elected too? That's the same guy that hasn't worked in years? He'll be such an addition too in driving Kilkenny forward if that is the case :rolleyes:

linny

thankfully then there's more for it than against,

road_high

Einhard wrote: »

Why don't people wait and see what comes of these proposals before launching into the routine condemnations and ad honinem attacks?

Also, the whole brown envelope thing is a pretty nasty slur. I don't know the man from Adam, but to be alleging corruption and illegality against someone purely because you don't agree with his plans is pretty contemptible. It's libel pure and simple.

It's the usual Kilkenny "syndrome". We had it with the Parade revamp, the new pedestrian bridge and new Courthouse for example. There seems to be an ingrained cynical attidude in Kilkenny to all public development concerning anything they may change the status quo or heaven forbid, move the city forward a bit.
It's incredible that potential of a development which may bring an element of 500 IDA backed jobs to Kilkenny is greeted with the same cyniscm. The brewery site will have to be redeveloped regardless of the CAS, I think it's so positive there is such interest in Kilkenny. I sincerely doubt the Council and Joe Crockett are making it up so they can push through their nasty road. That's taking conspiracy theories to a whole new level quitefrankly.

kikel

Yeah I missed the IDA part of the article. Still think their is something not right about why Mr Crockett wants to push this through so badly. It is very suspicious that the report his council commission was found to be grossly wrong. Now his PR team are talking jobs. In my opinion Mr Crocket cannot and should not be trusted to care for our beautiful city.

kikel

road_high wrote: »

It's the usual Kilkenny "syndrome". We had it with the Parade revamp, the new pedestrian bridge and new Courthouse for example. There seems to be an ingrained cynical attidude in Kilkenny to all public development concerning anything they may change the status quo or heaven forbid, move the city forward a bit.
It's incredible that potential of a development which may bring an element of 500 IDA backed jobs to Kilkenny is greeted with the same cyniscm. The brewery site will have to be redeveloped regardless of the CAS, I think it's so positive there is such interest in Kilkenny. I sincerely doubt the Council and Joe Crockett are making it up so they can push through their nasty road. That's taking conspiracy theories to a whole new level quitefrankly.

I think everyone would welcome new jobs to the city. It's the timing of this announcement that makes me smell a rat. I know how the PR industry works from previous experience and this is article is just that. It is to sway public opinion.

Rarely would the IDA announce job opportunities in this way. This is the council and their PR machine at work.

MR Crockett and his team were responsible for the archeological report on the vicar street houses. So yeah I wouldn't be surprised if this PR article is totally fabricated.

Put yourself in the eyes of a company considering to set up in Ireland. Would they really care if it is on the brewery site or the ring road. They would be more concerned about getting the right staff, paying the right rent, paying the staff the rate they see at competitive. The company shouldn't care if it is the brewery site or outside of town.

In saying all that, I really hope their are 500 jobs coming to Kilkenny. I do hope they are on the brewery site. I think it will help our city centre develop. I just want to see the city developed without the CAS.

Edit: with regard to your comment

road_high wrote: »

It's the usual Kilkenny "syndrome". We had it with the Parade revamp, the new pedestrian bridge and new Courthouse for example. There seems to be an ingrained cynical attidude in Kilkenny to all public development concerning anything they may change the status quo or heaven forbid, move the city forward a bit.

Yeah these people are out there that don't want the city to move forward. I think the issue is not about moving forward but HOW we move forward. We can move forward by protecting our heritage, our beautiful city landscape. Maybe even move forward with a more pedestrian and cyclist friendly city.

mick kk

road_high wrote: »

It's the usual Kilkenny "syndrome". We had it with the Parade revamp, the new pedestrian bridge and new Courthouse for example. There seems to be an ingrained cynical attidude in Kilkenny to all public development concerning anything they may change the status quo or heaven forbid, move the city forward a bit.

In fairness...the new bridge is pretty ugly and I'm not a big fan of the courthouse either. The chipper on the parade is handy though.

JTMan

Does anyone have any insight into the type of company that is trying to locate here? Is a another funds company?

road_high

Fungus wrote: »

Does anyone have any insight into the type of company that is trying to locate here? Is a another funds company?

Apparently an international financial services company. Think the aim is to grow kilkenny further into a financial services hub with State Street and the others operating here. So something like in the IFSC I'd reckon.

Kirk Van Houten

As far as I know State Street had some deal with the IDA that no other financial services company could set up within a certain radius for a certain period (10 or 15 years i think).

I believe BNY looked at Carlow some years ago but couldn't set up there due to this.

road_high

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

As far as I know State Street had some deal with the IDA that no other financial services company could set up within a certain radius for a certain period (10 or 15 years i think).

I believe BNY looked at Carlow some years ago but couldn't set up there due to this.

Probably less of an issue now though I'd imagine with the motorway has widened the potential commuter belt widely. Hopefully still not the case and mustn't be as the IDA are mentioned already. Would be an enormous boost to kilkenny.

JTMan

Thanks. I'm surprised that the name of the firm had not leaked yet.

godtabh

If the CAS doesnt go ahead all that site will be fit for will be a park

road_high

Fungus wrote: »

Thanks. I'm surprised that the name of the firm had not leaked yet.

I heard "Google" months ago though I couldn't see them looking past Dublin really

JTMan

road_high wrote: »

I heard "Google" months ago though I couldn't see them looking past Dublin really

All reports indicate that it is a financial services company. That would appear to outrule Google.

Someone must know the company name.

Kirk Van Houten

Fungus wrote: »

All reports indicate that it is a financial services company. That would appear to outrule Google.

Someone must know the company name.

Have heard BNY are looking to downsize or possibly even close their Cork office. They had looked at opening an office in Carlow previously. I might be adding 2 and 2 and coming up 7 but....

JTMan

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Have heard BNY are looking to downsize or possibly even close their Cork office. They had looked at opening an office in Carlow previously. I might be adding 2 and 2 and coming up 7 but....

I don't see why BNY would downsize Cork to relocate to Kilkenny. Does not make sense to me.

I suspect it is a different funds firm.

kikel

godtabh wrote: »

If the CAS doesnt go ahead all that site will be fit for will be a park

Thats what out council want us to believe. There are plenty of ways for the site to be developed that don't need a new road directly to the door. We really need to get over this reliance of cars. Citys are much better places without motor cars for both its inhabitants.


Here is an idea. Turn the mart site into park and ride facility. Pay the road trains that ferry tourists around to provide a year round park and ride in around Kilkenny for local workers and tourists.

And also complete the ring road.

road_high

kikel wrote: »

Thats what out council want us to believe. There are plenty of ways for the site to be developed that don't need a new road directly to the door. We really need to get over this reliance of cars. Citys are much better places without motor cars for both its inhabitants.


Here is an idea. Turn the mart site into park and ride facility. Pay the road trains that ferry tourists around to provide a year round park and ride in around Kilkenny for local workers and tourists.

And also complete the ring road.

Terrible idea. An awful waste of potential development site near
the city centre, park and rides (if there is a demand even) make sense when located outside cities/towns.
Kilkenny is much too small and parking is not that expensive even in the centre of town.

Agree with the ring road completion, that's a no-brainer.

kikel

road_high wrote: »

Terrible idea. An awful waste of potential development site near
the city centre, park and rides (if there is a demand even) make sense when located outside cities/towns.
Kilkenny is much too small and parking is not that expensive even in the centre of town.

Agree with the ring road completion, that's a no-brainer.

Yeah, bit far fetched alright. I'm full of far fetched ideas today.

Here is another idea that I actually did suggest to one particular councillor who called to my door before the local elections.

Turn market cross car park into a shopping centre. Far fetched?

catbear

Park and ride only makes sense when you've already got a sustainable transport system. I believe some sort of college with public grounds would be attractive and useful. I don't think anyone could argue for more retail.

godtabh

kikel wrote: »

Thats what out council want us to believe. There are plenty of ways for the site to be developed that don't need a new road directly to the door. We really need to get over this reliance of cars. Citys are much better places without motor cars for both its inhabitants.


Here is an idea. Turn the mart site into park and ride facility. Pay the road trains that ferry tourists around to provide a year round park and ride in around Kilkenny for local workers and tourists.

And also complete the ring road.

Read the EIS with an unbiased viewpoint. I have. My professional view point is that Johns Bridge and Greens Bridge can not accommodate any new car journeys. Car journeys can be reduced but never eliminated. Therefore any development of the site can not be accommodated without alternative river crossings. Its simple really

catbear

godtabh wrote: »

Read the EIS with an unbiased viewpoint. I have. My professional view point is that Johns Bridge and Greens Bridge can not accommodate any new car journeys. Car journeys can be reduced but never eliminated. Therefore any development of the site can not be accommodated without alternative river crossings. Its simple really

My professional view concurs with yours, completion of the ringroad will provide a new bridge further up the Nore from Greensbridge. It really is that simple.

godtabh

The northern ring road completion doesn't take care of the north/south divide in kilkenny population. People wont drive the ring road to access a site in the center of kilkenny. They will use the most direct route. From what I can see all the northern ring road completion will do is act as a by pass of the town. Doesnt do anything for the existing river crossings.

But hey its not in my backyard so my unbiased view isnt going to change many opinions here.

kikel

godtabh wrote: »

Read the EIS with an unbiased viewpoint. I have. My professional view point is that Johns Bridge and Greens Bridge can not accommodate any new car journeys. Car journeys can be reduced but never eliminated. Therefore any development of the site can not be accommodated without alternative river crossings. Its simple really

I've just read the EIS again and yes it is in favour for the CAS. Any idea who prepared this report. Kilkenny County Council reports have been found to be a a very low quality lately.

kikel

godtabh wrote: »

The northern ring road completion doesn't take care of the north/south divide in kilkenny population. People wont drive the ring road to access a site in the center of kilkenny. They will use the most direct route. From what I can see all the northern ring road completion will do is act as a by pass of the town. Doesnt do anything for the existing river crossings.

I suppose that is what us, the anti CAS people want to see. We want to see people using the ring road better to access different parts of the city. To alleviate traffic in the centre and the bridges.

If the ring road was completed, is there anyway to encourage people to use it rather than going cross town.

Kirk Van Houten

kikel wrote: »

I suppose that is what us, the anti CAS people want to see. We want to see people using the ring road better to access different parts of the city. To alleviate traffic in the centre and the bridges.

If the ring road was completed, is there anyway to encourage people to use it rather than going cross town.

lower speed limit to 30kmph in the city centre and or use of speed bumps to discourage those looking to use it as a short cut.

kikel

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

lower speed limit to 30kmph in the city centre and or use of speed bumps to discourage those looking to use it as a short cut.

I agree with your comments but I'm shooting myself in the foot here. The speed limit in city centre is not even 30kph at the moment.

If the CAS was scrapped today. That's it, no further discussion on it. What alternative plans\bright ideas could be implemented to move Kilkenny forward as a city. Yes the Ring road completion would be one of them, but what else? Open to clever, weird and wonderful ideas.

godtabh

kikel wrote: »

I've just read the EIS again and yes it is in favour for the CAS. Any idea who prepared this report. Kilkenny County Council reports have been found to be a a very low quality lately.

Kilkenny Co Co didnt write the report. Malone O'Regan/Scott Wilson did. Its been reviewed by ABP and updated accordingly.

What reports have been found to be poor quality and by who?

catbear

If the brief was what's best for cars over pedestrians and cyclists then in my professional opinion I can see how CAS would appeal.

However following that logic would see with the carmagedon evident elsewhere and all the health problems that that sedentary lifestyle promotes.

kikel

godtabh wrote: »

Kilkenny Co Co didnt write the report. Malone O'Regan/Scott Wilson did. Its been reviewed by ABP and updated accordingly.

What reports have been found to be poor quality and by who?

Here is An Tasices press relaease.

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/overwhelming-case-confirm-national-monument-vicar-st-%E2%80%93-taisce

Here is the Press release from Kilkenny County council after a archaeology report by Valerie J Keeley Ltd.

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Publications/Public_Notices/CAS-Reports-Press-Release-April-17th-2014.docx

Captain Havoc

godtabh wrote: »

The northern ring road completion doesn't take care of the north/south divide in kilkenny population. People wont drive the ring road to access a site in the center of kilkenny. They will use the most direct route. From what I can see all the northern ring road completion will do is act as a by pass of the town. Doesnt do anything for the existing river crossings.

But hey its not in my backyard so my unbiased view isnt going to change many opinions here.

Some people don't want to enter the city, it must a nightmare to get to Thurles in a HGV from the ring road, options are Greensbridge, narrow road beween Ballyragget road and Freshford road or George's Tree to Freshford.

redtelephone

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Some people don't want to enter the city, it must a nightmare to get to Thurles in a HGV from the ring road, options are Greensbridge, narrow road beween Ballyragget road and Freshford road or George's Tree to Freshford.

Yes that's a major issue, Greensbridge is choked up with traffic that's going somewhere else. Think of anybody from east of Kilkenny going to Thurles or Cork, or people from Carlow trying to get to St Luke's hospital. Those people don't want to go anywhere near the city, they want to bypass it. Finish the Ring Road first and this will allow us to get a much clearer picture of Kilkenny's traffic management needs, because almost all the through traffic will be taken out of the picture. What's the sense in bringing traffic into the city that doesn't either want or need to be there?

slimjimmc

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

lower speed limit to 30kmph in the city centre and or use of speed bumps to discourage those looking to use it as a short cut.

kikel wrote: »

I agree with your comments but I'm shooting myself in the foot here. The speed limit in city centre is not even 30kph at the moment.

If the CAS was scrapped today. That's it, no further discussion on it. What alternative plans\bright ideas could be implemented to move Kilkenny forward as a city. Yes the Ring road completion would be one of them, but what else? Open to clever, weird and wonderful ideas.

Errr, the city centre has been a 30km/h speed zone since 2010.
http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Roads/Special_Speed_Limit_Bye-Laws/Road_Traffic_Special_Speed_Limit_Bye-Laws_2010.html

redtelephone wrote: »

Yes that's a major issue, Greensbridge is choked up with traffic that's going somewhere else. Think of anybody from east of Kilkenny going to Thurles or Cork, or people from Carlow trying to get to St Luke's hospital. Those people don't want to go anywhere near the city, they want to bypass it. Finish the Ring Road first and this will allow us to get a much clearer picture of Kilkenny's traffic management needs, because almost all the through traffic will be taken out of the picture. What's the sense in bringing traffic into the city that doesn't either want or need to be there?

Agree wholeheartedly, getting to the Freshford road can be a pain sometimes during busy periods. It would be much better if you could take the ringroad.

It'll be interesting to see what actually transpires with the brewery site, financial services is a rather broad description.

kikel

slimjimmc wrote: »

Errr, the city centre has been a 30km/h speed zone since 2010.

Didn't know that.

What i was trying to say was that most traffic does not even get to 30kph

hi5

Workshops to be held on the 23rd and 24th of January for anyone who wants to contribute ideas to the development of the brewery site, you need to register by the 19th of January.

http://ourplan.kilkenny.ie/brewery-site


http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/second-brewery-site-plan-event-due-to-demand-1-6497452

kikel

Any word on those 500 jobs that Joe Crockett was on about or was that just a load of rubbish to push through the CAS?

Bowlardo

The old mart is going to be turned into a 8/9 multiplex cinema with lots of parking.
they will move from the current cinema to the new cinema

road_high

Anyone got up to date status of this? I assume Diageo are decommissioning the old brewery now? Be good to see movement on this...

kikel

hi5

And not a car in sight, is that a multi storey car park I see among the buildings?

foxcoverteddy

I feel really inspired by the pictures of what might be, do they really enhance our city? Do we want offices, honestly a city of our status needs a University, a sort of Oxford and Cambridge style centre of learning, can you hear it in years to come, "Oh yes of course I went to Kilkenny University".
Despite the computer age learning is still essential, just think of the jobs accommodation, food, cleaning, medical etc, I suppose we could build one of those old fashioned folly's so popular years ago, you have guessed Crocketts Folly, in fact the whole area could be called that so no one can forget the legacy left. Foxy

Captain Havoc

I'm not too worried if it's offices, we have colleges in Carlow and Waterford. If offices bring money then Happy days, the coffee shops and pubs in that area really could do with the boost.