brewery site plans

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Seeing as you say the county council were forced to abandon their pedestrian/cycling positive solutions for High Street by protesters then I'm sure you'll lend them your support after they were vilified by the protesters against the improved cycling and pedestrian options afforded by the new bridge.

Now I know you tire quickly of issues you raise but back to my question regarding the paving stones, which are you saying is older?

Haven't a clue what you first paragraph is on about.

I've stated already to you it's the smaller cobbles that have paved Kilkenny for years. Meaning that they are the older ones.

catbear

kikel wrote: »

Haven't a clue what you first paragraph is on about.

I've stated already to you it's the smaller cobbles that have paved Kilkenny for years. Meaning that they are the older ones.

Cobbles? I don't see any cobbles in the photo you provided.
To avoid confusion here's an extensive description. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobblestone

If you are familiar with Kilkenny you might remember the cobble stones in front of the arch entrance of the castle.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Cobbles? I don't see any cobbles in the photo you provided.
To avoid confusion here's an extensive description. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobblestone

If you are familiar with Kilkenny you might remember the cobble stones in front of the arch entrance of the castle.

Please accept my deepest apologies for using the wrong terminology. I bet if you think real hard you can guess which paving I was referring to.

catbear

kikel wrote: »

Please accept my deepest apologies for using the wrong terminology. I bet if you think real hard you can guess which paving I was referring to.

Yes, I simply asked which you one you were saying was older.

I'm still waiting more than a week on the other thread for you to describe the wonderful ideas you heard at the public consultation meeting for the brewery site so I'm not holding out hope I'll get an answer here either.

On the plus side though your contributions have changed my thinking in one regard and reaffirmed it in another. Thank you.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Yes, I simply asked which you one you were saying was older.

I'm still waiting more than a week on the other thread for you to describe the wonderful ideas you heard at the public consultation meeting for the brewery site so I'm not holding out hope I'll get an answer here either.

On the plus side though your contributions have changed my thinking in one regard and reaffirmed it in another. Thank you.

I've mentioned that it was the smaller ones are the older. I apologised for using the wrong terminology. I'll take it you have a problem with me. That's absolutely no problem. On the other thread replied to you a number of times 'I give up' because you use terminology such as people wiping my bum, describing me as lazy and a few other items.

I come on here for debate but you are singling out my comments for some reason. My comments that led us to debate here were I don't like design on high street paving / I would of liked to see more pedestrian/cycling for tourist along medieval mile. Your now focusing on my small answer to the type of stone used which I feel I've answered.

All I want is to cobe on here and discuss Kilkenny but I feel you are singling me out for some reason. Can we please drop it and get back to done friendly debate.

Rantan

kikel wrote:

All I want is to cobe on here and discuss Kilkenny but I feel you are singling me out for some reason. Can we please drop it and get back to done friendly debate.

You're not on your own..and for same reasons I will probably not bother contributing to these threads anymore. Fun is gone out of it for me to be honest.

catbear

kikel wrote: »

All I want is to cobe on here and discuss Kilkenny but I feel you are singling me out for some reason. Can we please drop it and get back to done friendly debate.

I'm singling out the claims you make like the one below which you never backed up.

kikel wrote: »

The works haven't added to the flow of people up down the medieval mile. .

Rantan, heritage can be fun for the interested but it's much more for the actively concerned.

foxcoverteddy

I had the same problem when supporting Walter O'Brien, the personal attacks were unwarranted as you both say, Boards should be fun, whilst I believe that dissent can be healthy to any forum, in fact it is the diverse views that make such sites interesting. The Brewery site or as I prefer the St Francis Abbey site is going to cause a great deal of controversy in the coming months; though I doubt any of our views will get taken notice of; it is nice that at least we have said what is on our minds.
I regretted staying away from you all, I did not think personal attacks should be allowed, whilst it may be beneficial to take a break you only have to look at the lack of quality in the posts if you do what you threaten, without posters like you there is very little to keep Boards afloat.
Remember we are individuals and as such we might not see eye to eye with posts, do not despair but sometimes you have to handle people with kid gloves, one can of course overlook deliberately the post you find distasteful, look at it as the beauty of individuality and the freedom we have.
This is if you like a plea for Boards without you it just does not work, there are not many of us, stay and contribute we need you.
Foxy from experience.

Captain Havoc

I want to address the above post from Rantan and also a few reported posts, not just from this thread. Disagreeing is not trolling, I don't think it would be interesting if everyone agreed on everything, it also stops people coming here and talking waffle. I am finding the debate on paving stones rather tedious and I would like that it ceases.

catbear

Flippin heck, the brewery demolition is going at a good clip. I think it started last week and they've already taken down a few buildings or roofs at least. I wonder how long it will take to finish it, anyone heard any completion estimates?

Threadhead

Did anyone hear any news out of yesterdays meeting about the brewery site? Local councillors have kept fairly quiet on it. Word is the site is going to be a mix of offices and social housing. Would be great to get more details but unfortunately the council have a tendency to not inform the general public and do whatever they want anyway.

kikel

Threadhead wrote: »

Did anyone hear any news out of yesterdays meeting about the brewery site? Local councillors have kept fairly quiet on it. Word is the site is going to be a mix of offices and social housing. Would be great to get more details but unfortunately the council have a tendency to not inform the general public and do whatever they want anyway.

Yes, I'm hearing some worrying stuff. Anything proposed by the public has been ignored. Joe Crocket the former county manager seems to be bulldozing through his plans for a business park. He even organised the finance proposal for the meeting. It seems that Kilkenny county council are not making any decisions in relation to this. There is a huge conflict of interest that that Joe Crockett can sign a contract for the new bridge, take up a job in NTMA and then organise the finance meeting for this project.

The social housing is not been integrated into the site. It is going along the inner ring road over the CAS. Not good planning.


This project will be pushed through no doubt of the premise of jobs. It's an unfortunate situation.

kikel

Taken from the SaveKilkenny facebook page.

Update from yesterday's secret meeting from Malcolm Noonan:
"A proposal is to be put forward by resolution at next Monday's meeting Enya Kennedy and let's just say it's not good. I'm still a little shellshocked at the scale of it but if it goes through in the form presented yesterday, Kilkenny Storm ice and inline hockey club The Watergate Theatre Barnstorm Theatre Company all of the arts and community input into the 'participative' re-visioning process for the brewery site will have been for nothing. Social housing isolated on the route of a busy through road with HGV's; an utter disgrace. And it was admitted that the former County Manager was present at the negotiations to finance the site. A conflict of interest surely. A once in a generation opportunity to re-imagine a City where communities come first, is gone...members from across the chamber expressed concerns but I fear that it will get through on the mantra of jobs. Once again we heard of the interest being taken in the site by a number of companies. This was pedalled out before, yet when I asked about an audit of vacant office space and zoned land for office development in the city...silence".

catbear

So I'm confused, will there social housing which I believe there was always scope for or more commercial. Its a bad communiqué.

If they can't explain themselves then its highly probable that they don't understand what's going on.

Threadhead

I know we live in a society of baffled 'how's' when it comes to the murder people get away with. But Joe Crockett absolutely destroys the town centre of Carlow, moves to Kilkenny, also working as County Manager where he tries hard to do the same, pushes through the CAS, once construction starts he immediately retires to work for the NTMA who have vested interests in the Brewery Site and now, in a non Council capacity, he's going to be working on the redevelopment of the site and allow the tumbleweeds to blow into Kilkenny just like he did to Carlow. This man is going town to town and selling off prime sites (with no engaged public consultation) in order to line his own pockets. It's like the Monorail episode of The Simpsons and we're just watching it happen.

How much damage is this one man inflicting? Is he getting away with it because he's so bloody brazen?

Help!!!!

Threadhead wrote: »

I know we live in a society of baffled 'how's' when it comes to the murder people get away with. But Joe Crockett absolutely destroys the town centre of Carlow, moves to Kilkenny, also working as County Manager where he tries hard to do the same, pushes through the CAS, once construction starts he immediately retires to work for the NTMA who have vested interests in the Brewery Site and now, in a non Council capacity, he's going to be working on the redevelopment of the site and allow the tumbleweeds to blow into Kilkenny just like he did to Carlow. This man is going town to town and selling off prime sites (with no engaged public consultation) in order to line his own pockets. It's like the Monorail episode of The Simpsons and we're just watching it happen.

How much damage is this one man inflicting? Is he getting away with it because he's so bloody brazen?

More like who's pockets is he lining.

kikel

I know joe crockett was in meath county council aswell. Is there any connection between his time in meath and this fiasco? Anyone know what role he played in meath coco? and when was he there?

https://thestory.ie/2013/08/01/trim-castle-a-monument-to-bad-planning/

catbear

Can anyone answer my question based on the ambiguous statement issued by this self appointed "save kilkenny" group, is there going to be social housing or is their commercial premises.

If it's just a matter of every vested interest group not getting what they want then that's understandable.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Can anyone answer my question based on the ambiguous statement issued by this self appointed "save kilkenny" group, is there going to be social housing or is their commercial premises.

If it's just a matter of every vested interest group not getting what they want then that's understandable.

There will be social housing built but it on the other side of the road. Between CAS bridge and greens bridge area.

Opinion: I think people are looking for their voices to be heard from the public consultation. From what i hear this is the plan devised in 2013. It is a legal requirement from any public consultation that the public views are taken on board. The plan has not changed and public opinion was just a smokescreen. Joe Crocket had a plan for this site. His job in NTMA depended on this going through. The piublic consultation was never going to change anything.

catbear

kikel wrote: »

There will be social housing built but it on the other side of the road. Between CAS bridge and greens bridge area.

Where's the problem with that. Thank god we've done with the days when social housing was pushed out beyond industrial estates like with Hebron park.

Is this "save kilkenny" group a bunch of nimbies who prefer their social housing to be out of sight?

Threadhead

Save Kilkenny is not the issue. They have their own bugbears and they're most welcome to air them. Casting one protest group as representative of all citizens of Kilkenny who want a say in the future of the city is not helpful.

Crockett has a conflict of interests that stinks a million miles away and yet, goes unchecked by the majority of councillors who are pushing this through without thorough public consultation.

Social housing (which is needed) and commercial developments seem to be the main focus of the site.

I'm not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of what actually goes in there until I actually know for sure. But two things are worrying:

1. Crockett having a hand in this after his reign of terror on many councils is extremely dubious. He pushed through a bridge and then went and joined the company who would benefit most from the bridge being built. It stinks.

2. We're talking about building a brand new area of the city. And not an outlying one. A new part of Kilkenny right slap bang in the historic city centre on the site of our first brewery, a site of heritage and of much local history. This isn't some field out on the Dublin road. We have the opportunity to do something truly special with this area and really maximise the potential of the city centre. What seems to be proposed is basically, a business park. The site should be mixed use and the voices of the people should be taken into consideration. But they're not because the councillors don't want to hear. There's a lot of red flags being raised here because the people of Kilkenny are not having their opinions taken into account. It's not a case of saying 'No' to whatever's suggested, it's actually a case of taking all the options into account. But there's an agenda at play and that does not leave room for considering the options.

We were obviously a lot better 100 years ago at rebelling against unscrupulous outsiders. Now they're running roughshod on Kilkenny.

kikel

catbear wrote: »

Is this "save kilkenny" group a bunch of nimbies who prefer their social housing to be out of sight?

If anything it's to integrate it more into the site. If the site is developed jsut as a business park it will be dead in the evening. People want this development to be part of the city. A development without residential is a bad idea. The councils around the country are trying to get people back into living in city centres

catbear

Well I've reread the blurb and now see that everywhere north of the new bridge will suffer HGV. What the f do these cretins think people around greens bridge endure right now?

bohsfan

kikel wrote: »

I know joe crockett was in meath county council aswell. Is there any connection between his time in meath and this fiasco? Anyone know what role he played in meath coco? and when was he there?

https://thestory.ie/2013/08/01/trim-castle-a-monument-to-bad-planning/

Assistant County Manager, was on the advisory panel that approved the hotel plans

catbear

This whole anti brewery site is going to turn into a fiasco where some people think public consultation is a shopping list.
If Malcolm noonan, whose name seems associated with the posted blurb, has such wide spread support then when didn't it vote for him at the recent election.

Let me guess, rigged vote!

I just looked it up, he got only 3.74% of the first preference vote!
via Imgflip Meme Maker

kikel

bohsfan wrote: »

Assistant County Manager, was on the advisory panel that approved the hotel plans

So, the main person behind the development of the brewery site:

• Was involved in bad planning in county meath and trim castle.
• Was involved in the planning of Fairgreen in carlow.
• Signed contract for a bridge in Kilkenny before he took up a new job for the agency building on the brewery site.
• attended the council finance meeting for the development of the brewery site.

I'm surprised more councillors are not asking questions. Do we really need Joe Crockett involved in this public project?

catbear

kikel wrote: »

I'm surprised more councillors are not asking questions. Do we really need Joe Crockett involved in this public project?

You mean democratically elected councillors?

If there's corruption then make the charge.

Something happens you don't like then democracy is to blame. What do you propose, direct action?

kikel

Another concern about this is the financing of the project for the CAS. When the councillors voted for this they were informed that there was government funding for the bridge of 2.7 million. Not that the project is almost complete the councl books show that there never was ever any funding for the project. The project has ran over budget by 2.5 million. The council have retrospectively got funding as they say the project went over budget. Did Joe Crocket know this when he signed the contract? Did he organise it? There are many questions that our councillors are afraid to ask.

catbear

kikel wrote: »

There are many questions that our councillors are afraid to ask.

Or maybe they have and they're satisfied but you're not as it doesn't fulfill your conspiracy narrative.

It seems to me that there's a small but cantankerous element whose only obvious talent is obstruction. Their inability to communicate without hysteria, hyperbole or suspicion paints them as a disparate mob entirely enraptured by the constructions of their own fantasies.

kikel

No harm in asking questions catbear. It's the lack of asking questions that allows people get away with things.


Referring to people who question things and ask questions of the establishment as mob and only purpose to to cause obstruction is not very nice. Why refer to people in this way? If you could fight the other side of the arguement and show that we have no need to be concerned about Joe Crockett I would have more respect for your arguement. You are only trying to belittle the people with concerns rather than handling the concerns.