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brewery site plans

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    #62
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Easy, move it to Callan


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    #63
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    kikel wrote: »
    For a development of this size they really need to have more details about transport for it and the city at large. An in depth look at smarter travel is urgently needed in Kilkenny.

    Yes, this information seems a bit sketchy. We will need extra parking for this development, where will it be?
    The new bridge from the brewery leads up to the old mart site, where does the traffic go from there.
    The new road at the other side at the Butts and Kennyswell has been put on hold so there is no where for extra traffic to go there either.


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    #64
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    Here's an idea..

    How about a water bus, a car park at the 'Castleomer rd/Ring Rd roundabout then a boat down to the city centre, same at the Bennetsbridge Rd side.
    Park and float:)
    Flood permitting of course


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    #65
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    hi5 wrote: »
    Yes, this information seems a bit sketchy. We will need extra parking for this development, where will it be.

    The Mary site would be a good idea. Step one in smarter travel for Kilkenny


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    #66
    Threadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Threadhead


    Is a good chunk of the mart site not going towards a car park? I'd assume it wasn't just to serve the cinema, ala the car park at Fair Green.

    Also, was there not a provision for parking just off the CAS? For tourist buses and the like anyway.


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    #67
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Threadhead wrote: »

    Also, was there not a provision for parking just off the CAS? For tourist buses and the like anyway.
    I think you're right, they can drop off there and the tourists can walk to the castle to be picked up later and visa versa.
    It's a good plan, there's a huge gulf in the number of visitors to the Castle and Canices Cathedral, many not bothering to venture further than high street so this would help everyone on the medieval mile.


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    #68
    Threadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Threadhead


    Parliament Street and Irishtown are in need of more business, it would be great to make the area more accessible to tourists. That might be one benefit at least from the CAS.


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    #69
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    catbear wrote: »
    I think you're right, they can drop off there and the tourists can walk to the castle to be picked up later and visa versa.
    It's a good plan, there's a huge gulf in the number of visitors to the Castle and Canices Cathedral, many not bothering to venture further than high street so this would help everyone on the medieval mile.

    Agree I think St Canices is untapped yet. A medieval round tower beside a cathedral in a medieval city. This is the ireland many of the tourists have in their heads.


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    #70
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Irishtown and the lower end of the High Street, looks better than it has before, be honest it is a very pubby area, the pavements are narrow, if you hzav e a car parking is not particularly good, I know there is a lot of talk regarding the use of a car, but if you have kids, especially young ones you are not going to walk and you need very easy parking, Dean st is taken up with "Business" people, nd what with the coming building demolition I do not hold out much hope for the time being, however all said and done it is part of our overall vision of a tourist Mecca.


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    #71
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Threadhead wrote: »
    Parliament Street and Irishtown are in need of more business, it would be great to make the area more accessible to tourists. That might be one benefit at least from the CAS.
    Development of the mediaeval mile will certainly be helpful if what I heard about the coach park is true.
    Someone in the tourist industry please correct if I'm wrong but I've heard canice's cathedral only gets something like a tenth of the visitors the castle gets.
    A small urban RV park could help generate business too, they're common enough on the continent.


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    #72
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Question, what is the medieval mile project? Yeah I've heard of it but is there any real marketing to it? Is it the new paving?

    Edit: 5.5m tourism investment. What's that been spent on? Any ideas?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-tourism-654624-Oct2012/


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    #73
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    Question, what is the medieval mile project? Yeah I've heard of it but is there any real marketing to it? Is it the new paving?

    Edit: 5.5m tourism investment. What's that been spent on? Any ideas?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-tourism-654624-Oct2012/
    Well don't quote me on this but I think St Mary's is to be developed as some kind of tourist hub. I don't know what the exact plans are but there's some explanatory signs on one of the entrances to the graveyard entrance facing the back of the tholsel.
    There's really interesting archeaological excavations there too.
    http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/RSSLatestNewsAndAnnouncements/Internationally-Significant-Archaeological-Discoveries-at-St-Mary-s.39362.shortcut.html
    I'd imagine the roofing work, archeaology, restoration and final completion works will take most of that budget.

    From what someone in the tourist trade told me the drive is to get people to spend more time in Kilkenny, many just do the castle, walk up high street, stop at Parliament st and turn around.

    It's a shame really as I think Canices Cathedral is as unique if not more so than Kilkenny castle.
    A coach park near the Cathedral will help create in the visitors mind that Kilkenny has more than one memorable blockbuster site and that will hopefully entice visitors to extend their stay or inspire another visit.

    Ultimately branding is king and catchy titles like "medieval mile" will help make kilkenny a distinct destination amongst all the other sites around Ireland.

    Promoting a manageable walking distance serviced by cafe's, shops, and pubs is always an attractive activity for visitor, anyone visiting Edinburgh can't help but be lured to "the royal mile".


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    #74
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    kikel wrote: »
    Question, what is the medieval mile project? Yeah I've heard of it but is there any real marketing to it? Is it the new paving?

    Edit: 5.5m tourism investment. What's that been spent on? Any ideas?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/kilkenny-tourism-654624-Oct2012/

    Its like the Wild Atlantic Way, some lad sat down with a map, drew a route through already existing roads, and bamm!... brand new tourist attraction:)


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    #75
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    Well don't quote me on this but I think St Mary's is to be developed as some kind of tourist hub.

    Your right, it says that in article I linked to. D'oh.

    Money well spent in my opinion.

    They mention in article as well that a total of 15m is to be spent since 2012 or there abouts.

    I've just remembered I think the tholstel was due a make over as well. Make it into a tourist office downstairs. Don't know if that was part of the bord failte money thought. Here a lot of opposition to that one but I'd be in favour of that.

    Are the street works part of the medieval mile project. If so, a terrible waste if money that one in my opinion.


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    #76
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    hi5 wrote: »
    Its like the Wild Atlantic Way, some lad sat down with a map, drew a route through already existing roads, and bamm!... brand new tourist attraction:)

    That was clever alright. The medieval mile is a good idea and connects so many attractions.


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    #77
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Not overly sold on the idea of the coach park. While the cathedral may get more visitors it could have the same effect as the castle does at the moment. Buses will bring people to both locations and they won't spend time in Kilkenny spending money. Still think the tourist train idea would be the best dream but that is hard to see happening with a congested city. The idea behind it would be you have 3 options to see the medieval mile and all its attractions. Walk, cycle or tourist train. Sure a forth option could hire electric wheelchair or Cegways(sp?)

    Yeah probably all daft ideas but a fact is all these ways would lead to tourists passing more shops and tourist attractions.


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    #78
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    Not overly sold on the idea of the coach park. While the cathedral may get more visitors it could have the same effect as the castle does at the moment. Buses will bring people to both locations and they won't spend time in Kilkenny spending money.
    I think the plan is for coach loads to be dropped off at oneend and collected at the other. They can, walk cycle or crawl the mile!!

    Not sure which road works you alluding to but the path upgrades in Irish town and vicar street are probably part of the project.


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    #79
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    I think the plan is for coach loads to be dropped off at oneend and collected at the other. They can, walk cycle or crawl the mile!!
    There some logic behind that, picking drop one side pick up the other.
    "Crawl the mile" there's an idea, how many pubs on medieval mile. Hehe
    catbear wrote: »
    Not sure which road works you alluding to but the path upgrades in Irish town and vicar street are probably part of the project.

    High street and Irish town area.


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    #80
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    catbear wrote: »
    Someone in the tourist industry please correct if I'm wrong but I've heard canice's cathedral only gets something like a tenth of the visitors the castle gets.

    Kilkenny castle had 259,000 visitors in 2014, I don't know what Canice's had but it's outside the list of top free attractions, the bottom of which has 40,000. Nicholas Mosse is the only Kilkenny attraction on the free list with 120,000 visitors.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #81
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Captain Havoc wrote: »
    Kilkenny castle had 259,000 visitors in 2014, I don't know what Canice's had but it's outside the list of top free attractions, the bottom of which has 40,000. Nicholas Mosse is the only Kilkenny attraction on the free list with 120,000 visitors.
    I think Canices charge a €5 in so it shouldn't appear on the free stuff list.


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    #82
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    catbear wrote: »
    I think Canices charge a €5 in so it shouldn't appear on the free stuff list.



    Bottom of the fee paying has 80,000 visitors.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #83
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Captain Havoc wrote: »
    Bottom of the fee paying has 80,000 visitors.
    What I heard mustn't be accurate so, thanks.


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    #84
    Threadhead
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Threadhead


    The work at the bottom of Canice's Steps is part of the medieval mile as is the new benches along Parliament Street and High Street. St. Mary's Church is a significant part of this and there will also be new work done on Rothe House. The upgrade to the Tholsel is also supposed to be part of this but when it will be implemented, I don't know. It definitely needs a bit of a facelift there.


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    #85
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    Threadhead wrote: »
    The work at the bottom of Canice's Steps is part of the medieval mile as is the new benches along Parliament Street and High Street. St. Mary's Church is a significant part of this and there will also be new work done on Rothe House. The upgrade to the Tholsel is also supposed to be part of this but when it will be implemented, I don't know. It definitely needs a bit of a facelift there.

    Totally supportive of the works to St Mary's, rothe house etc. but do have to question the spend in paving seating works. I presume parliament street will be done during the winter. Firstly I think the finish is poor, it looks bland (personal opinion, I know) The works haven't added to the flow of people up down the medieval mile. Why are different materials used in Irish town area than high street. Also, as well the side streets, black abbey area, Kieran street and ormonde street all have old style. Why mix it up and have mish mash of designs. Would we not be better maintaining the current design rather than replacing again.


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    #86
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    The works haven't added to the flow of people up down the medieval mile.
    How do you quantify that?

    The works are complimentary to the main attractions, initiatives like new coach park will compliment too.

    It's all just parts of a greater picture, a work in progress.

    Also could you provide some visual examples of the stone you mentioned, the same type of stone can look very different depending on wear.

    Plus if we got really pedantic on the mediaeval theme we'd be applying paint to our limestone buildings, before the reformation inside stonework depictions of flora and fauna like in Canices cathedral were coloured.

    Even tower houses had colourful plaster coating that made them look lurid compared to our modern grey austere perception of all things ancient in stone.


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    #87
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    How do you quantify that?

    I quantify it as we still got the same streetscape. Nothing has changed bar visually. If investing in a medieval mile and spending millions redoing the street I would of hoped the street could of at some extra capacity for pedestrians/tourists.

    Here is an example of 2 different paving been used. My image shows old paving with the new. The old paving is very similar to the paving in irishtown.


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    #88
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    1. I quantify it as we still got the same streetscape. Nothing has changed bar visually. If investing in a medieval mile and spending millions redoing the street I would of hoped the street could of at some extra capacity for pedestrians/tourists.

    2. Here is an example of 2 different paving been used. My image shows old paving with the new. The old paving is very similar to the paving in irishtown.
    1. A visual streetscape would require planning whereas the paving works are upgrades of existing facilities. Are you against footpath repairs and improvements?

    2. Which stone is the old and which is new?

    As for the ultimate improvement for maximizing capacity there was a very vocal opposition to any form of one way vehicular traffic around high street. I'm sure you'll be glad to know that people power won.


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    #89
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »
    1. A visual streetscape would require planning whereas the paving works are upgrades of existing facilities. Are you against footpath repairs and improvements?

    2. Which stone is the old and which is new?

    As for the ultimate improvement for maximizing capacity there was a very vocal opposition to any form of one way vehicular traffic around high street. I'm sure you'll be glad to know that people power won.

    1. No, I'm not against footpath repairs and improvements. My comment was about having different designs. If anything I think the council need to be doing more repairs to protect what we already have. Ormonde Street for example if not maintained and repaired will need to be replaced. It would of been good to see them maintain and improve the paths we had rather than replace beacuse now we are in a postion where high street is one design and sidestreets are another. I love the continuity that it brought.

    2. Hmmmm, I thought anyone living in Kilkenny would recognise the smaller cobbles that have lined the pathways for many years.

    Any ideas when the previous works to kilkenny streets was done. It seems so extensive they must of spent a fortune when it was done.


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    #90
    kikel
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭kikel


    catbear wrote: »

    As for the ultimate improvement for maximizing capacity there was a very vocal opposition to any form of one way vehicular traffic around high street. I'm sure you'll be glad to know that people power won.

    I don't think the people were against a one way system. I think it was more the council tried something, it didn't work and were afraid to try again due to the embarrassment that they faced and the backlash from the chamber and businesses.

    Remember, in life, many people fail but keep on trying until they get it right. Thomas Edison is one that comes to mind. I don't believe that any person in the county council roads office would agree that High street is working effectively at the moment.


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    #91
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    kikel wrote: »
    I don't believe that any person in the county council roads office would agree that High street is working effectively at the moment.
    Seeing as you say the county council were forced to abandon their pedestrian/cycling positive solutions for High Street by protesters then I'm sure you'll lend them your support after they were vilified by the protesters against the improved cycling and pedestrian options afforded by the new bridge.

    Now I know you tire quickly of issues you raise but back to my question regarding the paving stones, which are you saying is older?


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